Author Topic: 12th Manchesters April 1917  (Read 139 times)

Offline Chris Nicholls

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12th Manchesters April 1917
« on: August 15, 2019, 10:25:39 PM »
Can anyone tell me where the 12th Battalion were on 20-30th April 1917?

Thanks

Offline charlie

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Re: 12th Manchesters April 1917
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2019, 08:00:19 AM »
Hello Chris, welcome to the forum.
19 - 22 In Divisional reserve Arras
23rd - Railway Triangle
24th - Monchy Wood
25th - Attacked Rifle trench between Bit and Harness Lanes
26th - Moved via Arras and Saulty to Sus St Leger
27 - 30th - Sus St Leger.

The places can be found on map 51b NW http://lt1.mcmaster.ca/ww1/wrz4mp.php?grid=51b

The Battalion War Diary which details what the Battalion was doing on these dates is available to view on Ancestry etc or can be download for £3-50 from the National Archives
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352944

Charlie

Offline Chris Nicholls

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Re: 12th Manchesters April 1917
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2019, 09:55:04 AM »
Charlie

Thank you for the info. My grandfather was wounded on the 25th and I am going out to the Somme next month to visit significant places he was at. Obviously this was one of those. Also going to visit Delville Wood as he must have been there in August 1916 and this is probably where he won his MM. 
He was in the batch of replacements that arrived in 12th Manchesters in late July 1916. He was previously in the 2nd Border Regt but was hospitalised with Impetigo on 1st July and missed their heavy casualties attacking Mametz. I would like to find out more about the Army regs regarding sickness as it seems odd that they would hospitalise someone, especially with battle experience, with impetigo on the day of an important attack when the hospitals would be ready for wounded.

Chris

Online mack

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Re: 12th Manchesters April 1917
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2019, 11:09:28 AM »
hiya chris
you don't mention your grandfathers name,was he L/Cpl 43443 henry nicholls,formerly pte 8601 henry nicholls 2nd border regt,his military medal was gazetted on 14th December 1916

mack
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 11:11:19 AM by mack »

Offline Chris Nicholls

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Re: 12th Manchesters April 1917
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2019, 01:32:07 PM »
Yes that's him. I had to set up a new login as I forgot the details and had changed email address.

Online mack

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Re: 12th Manchesters April 1917
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2019, 06:49:59 PM »
Yes that's him. I had to set up a new login as I forgot the details and had changed email address.
no problem chris,welcome aboard

mack

Offline PhilipG

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Re: 12th Manchesters April 1917
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2019, 10:38:53 AM »
Chris,

I note that the 12th Manchesters' history reports that on the 1st August 1916 the battalion moved into the old German second line, running from Longueval to Bazentin-le-Petit, so I presume that is one of the reasons you will be visiting Delville Wood.   The history continues - referring to the Manchesters' attack on the 4th August against the enemy line at "Orchard Trench", the battalion's bombers leading the attack.   As regards your relative being hospitalised on account of an attack of the very contagious disease of impetigo, arising from my service in WW2, I have always believed that where events medical are concerned, the Medical Officer's authority always prevails.   In the case you mention, the concerns of the MO to curtail any spread of the infection would have prevailed, I think.    (In Feb.1943 I was in a RN barracks and together with other ratings suffering from impetigo went to Sick Bay.  The Surgeon Lieutenant did not send us to hospital, but owing to the requirements of the Service at that time awarded us "Medicine & Duty" - an award my father once told me was often given during his service in the Great War).       PhilipG.



Offline Tim Bell

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Re: 12th Manchesters April 1917
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2019, 12:31:45 PM »
Hi Chris,
I've reseached numerous members of 17th Bttn, allocated the 43000 number sequence.  They came from various Regiments and arrived as drafts in early July 1916, initially attached until their transfer to the Manchesters on 1st September.

I'd speculate September for Henry's transfer to 12th Bttn.  His MM awarded to Border Regiment would indicate any earlier attachment must have been post significant action on the Somme with the Borders.

Apologies I create more confusion than assistance.

Welcome

Tim
Following one Platoon and everything around them....
http://17thmanchesters.wordpress.com/about/

Online mack

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Re: 12th Manchesters April 1917
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2019, 01:18:05 PM »
tims right about men of the border regiment being attatched to some of the Manchester pals battalions in 1916,one senior Manchester officer commented about how professional they were and very good soldiers,the regimental roll of gallantry awards drawn up by the Manchester regiment says late border regt,but ime confident he won his MM with the manchesters,theres a list in the roll for soldiers who won the MM while on attatchment to the regiment,your grandfather is in the main list


mack

Offline charlie

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Re: 12th Manchesters April 1917
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2019, 02:46:04 PM »
I agree with Mack, his MM is Gazetted Manchesters so a 12th Bn award. He landed in France 05.10.1914, transferred from the 12th Bn to the Royal Defence Corps - No 67286, and later to 3rd Bn Border Regt No 50962.

Charlie

Offline Tim Bell

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Re: 12th Manchesters April 1917
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2019, 02:56:51 PM »
Apologies for my incorrect data on the MM Award.  As a Manchesters award, it's likley he joined the 12th Bttn on attachment in mid-July 1916, possibly after recovering from wounds / sickness with Borders.
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Offline Chris Nicholls

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Re: 12th Manchesters April 1917
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2019, 11:00:05 AM »
Thanks everyone for the info.

PhillipG - your insight to the military thinking regarding medical matters  is interesting to a non military person. A friend who has been in the army said similar to you. I'm just glad that he missed the Border regiments action on July 1st