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1939 - 1945 / Re: Battledress & saluting
« Last post by PhilipG on September 19, 2019, 09:07:06 AM »
As a naval rating in WW2, I was issued with gaiters (blancoed green) into which the appropriate part of my bell-bottomed trousers had to be tucked.   The gaiters had to be returned to ship's stores when our draft left for foreign parts.   A friend, a post-war naval national serviceman, tells me that he was issued with army type anklets - a cost saving exercise no doubt.     PhilipG.
1914 - 1918 / Re: 2nd Lt. Taylor : 2nd Manchesters
« Last post by mack on September 18, 2019, 05:41:05 PM »
could it be that capt wain was no longer a officer in the 25th manchesters,the 25th had become a training reserve battalion by the time he won his VC,i don't think they award gallantry medals to training battalions.

1914 - 1918 / Re: 2nd Lt. Taylor : 2nd Manchesters
« Last post by PhilipG on September 18, 2019, 04:52:56 PM »

Quite a mystery.  I can only assume that the Manchesters at the appropriate time, and for whatever reason, did not take up the matter with the War Office concerning Captain Wain's original commissioning in the 25th  battalion.    Colonel Marshall was buried in the cemetery at Ors on the 8th December 1918 in the presence of a Major-General, a Brig-General and officers from the 15th & 16th Lancs. Fus. and 2nd Manchesters, so his name was well known in Division and Brigade HQ.           PhilipG.
1939 - 1945 / Re: Battledress & saluting
« Last post by rafboy on September 18, 2019, 03:43:51 PM »
Roy and Charlie,

My mother had the War Medal not the Defence Medal as she had not served the required time to qualify for it which is 1080 days, Mother had only served 680 days during the required period.

She is not wearing the War Medal Ribbon because it had not been issued to her, I claimed it.
I have a letter from the MOD Army Medals Office confirming her entitlement, I just had to find where I had filed it.

1914 - 1918 / Re: 2nd Lt. Taylor : 2nd Manchesters
« Last post by Tim Bell on September 18, 2019, 02:14:27 PM »
Hi Philip,

There seems to be contrasting themes here. Lt Col Marshall's VC was attributed to the Irish Guards even though his valour was recognised on attachment to the Lancs Fusils, yet Capt Richard Wain's VC was attributed to valour with the Tank Corps, even though he was attached from Manchesters. Both posthumous awards.

Could this have anything to do with family wishes perhaps?

1914 - 1918 / Re: 2nd Lt. Taylor : 2nd Manchesters
« Last post by PhilipG on September 18, 2019, 10:44:05 AM »
In the Regimental History of the Lancs. Fusiliers published in 1949, there is a note concerning the award of the VC to Lt.Col. J.N.Marshall.   It seems that the War Office ruled that as the colonel belonged to the Irish Guards and was only attached to the Lancs. Fus., the award must be credited to the Irish Guards.    Perhaps reluctantly, the Fusiliers had to reduce their harvest of Victoria Crosses to 17.     However, it would seem that another VC was won by the regiment in WW2 bringing back the total to 18 again.   PhilipG.
1939 - 1945 / Re: Battledress & saluting
« Last post by rafboy on September 17, 2019, 11:16:43 PM »

I don't know how many times I have looked at this photo and never noticed the buttons .
I have enlarged the photo and cropped out the bottom of the trouser leg, you can just make out that there are "flaps" coming from the back of the leg which must be to enable the bottom of the trouser leg to be tightened (Photo attached). I suspect this was done before putting Gaiters on, I can remember my father wearing Gaiters, he had chains with lead weights on that kept the trouser down over the top of the Gaiter.

This does ramble on a bit and I think he has the sizes the wrong way round but it shows the type of Gaiter my father had, his were blancoed:

1939 - 1945 / Re: Battledress & saluting
« Last post by PhilipG on September 17, 2019, 05:25:10 PM »

Cliff, looking at the photographs once more, I see that most in the group are wearing "utility" type battledress i.e. the pocket buttons are not covered by "flaps".   I think it was a design to save cloth.   It must have caused the loss of many blouse buttons when crawling.       In the wedding photograph, your father is wearing the "non-utility" type battledress uniform.   In that connection, what was the purpose of the button, just above shoe level on his right leg?    Lastly, I recall, probably in 1946/7 a neighbour's son on leave wearing a Canadian Army battle dress, a uniform of some smartness and cut, presumably transferred to British forces as the Canadians had returned home.   The trouble was that it was a slightly different shade of khaki from the British Army clothing.   Such was the state of the country at that time that it would not seem to matter.   PhilipG.
1939 - 1945 / Re: Battledress & saluting
« Last post by charlie on September 17, 2019, 05:02:51 PM »
Very strange that your mother wasn‘t awarded the War Medal or did it get lost? As far I am aware service with the ATS made the person eligible for the award.

1939 - 1945 / Re: Battledress & saluting
« Last post by rafboy on September 17, 2019, 03:09:57 PM »
I have added latest information and corrected the statement on mothers medals.

Thanks Roy

Phil was a Pioneer Cpl with the 1st Bn hence the crossed axes above his tapes.

I have not been able to identify positively what the crown my mother is wearing is for, I assume it is connected to the job she was doing in London.
I am surprised she has no medal ribbons up, I have her Defence Medal, no idea why she was not awarded the War Medal.

This is my mothers Service Record:

W/50694 Pte Stella Marguerite CALDWELL - Auxiliary Territorial Service
Enlisted into Auxiliary Territorial Service at Lancaster and posted   
to Western Command Manchester   14. 2.41
Posted to A Company Group 42   25. 3.41
Posted to 10/11th Cheshire Platoon 4th Anti-Aircraft Group, Preston   26. 3.41
Posted to lst East Lancashire Regiment 4th A Group   24. 5.41
Passed Trade Test as a Clerk Class II   28. 2.42
Mustered as a Clerk Class I at Manchester   7. 3.42
Appointed Acting Lance Corporal   31. 3.42
Posted to 44 Anti-Aircraft Brigade   24.10.42
Discharged for Family Reasons (No other details recorded)   25.12.42
Enrolled into Auxiliary Territorial Service at Manchester   25. 2.47
Posted to A Company London District   10. 3.47
Classified as a Clerk Group C   30. 4.47
Change of name by marriage to Phillips, married at the Register Office   
City of Westminster   24. 5.47
Posted to Company North West District   21. 8.47
Posted to No 1 London District   1. 9.47
Discharged on Compassionate Grounds (No other details received)   6. 2.48
Service with the Colours: 14.2.41 - 25.12.42 and 25.2.47 - 6.2.48   
Medals issued etc: For this information if required apply to: Army Medal Office, Worcester Road, Droitwich Worcestershire WR9 8AU.
Address on Enrolment in 1941 and 1947: 391, Stockport Road, Timperley Altrincham.
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