The Manchester Regiment Forum

Remembrance => Non Commissioned Graves => Topic started by: Tim Bell on August 29, 2018, 07:08:10 PM

Title: Joseph Cotterill
Post by: Tim Bell on August 29, 2018, 07:08:10 PM
Joseph was a retired Col Sgt in the Regiment, commissioned Hon Lt/QM in 13th Bttn 17/10/1914.  He died 6/11/1914 and is buried in Peel Green, Eccles.  Joseph and his son are commemorated on St Mary's Church Eccles Memorial.  He is not commemorated by CWGC.

It seems surprising he had retired from service before his death.  Also a bit odd his death was not connected with service if he had resigned his commission.  I need Death Cert/review Off Serv File and if anyone can see the Fold 3 Pension Record, this may tell us more...

See Manch Courier 15/2/1915 - confirms 13th Bttn.
https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/item/memorial/26156 (https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/item/memorial/26156)
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1066850 (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1066850)
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=XVZ7683&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=royalchelseadischarges&gsfn=Joseph&gsln=Cotterill&cp=11&msypn__ftp=eccles,%20lancashire,%20england,%20united%20kingdom&msypn=84830&msbdy=1868&msbpn__ftp=manchester,%20lancashire,%20england,%20united%20kingdom&msbpn=84924&qh=ehZfUgYMqD3uWQ%2BrzJ4vCw%3D%3D&new=1&rank=1&redir=false&uidh=3d3&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=0&h=494249&recoff=&ml_rpos=1 (https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=XVZ7683&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=royalchelseadischarges&gsfn=Joseph&gsln=Cotterill&cp=11&msypn__ftp=eccles,%20lancashire,%20england,%20united%20kingdom&msypn=84830&msbdy=1868&msbpn__ftp=manchester,%20lancashire,%20england,%20united%20kingdom&msbpn=84924&qh=ehZfUgYMqD3uWQ%2BrzJ4vCw%3D%3D&new=1&rank=1&redir=false&uidh=3d3&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=0&h=494249&recoff=&ml_rpos=1)
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29067/supplement/1527 (https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29067/supplement/1527)

Grave photo and Salford Reporter Obit attached.

Checked out Pension Record on Free Trial. Enlisted 14/1/1886.  21 yrs Service incl 3y 1m India Reg No 1794. 1st Vol Bttn Permanent Staff. S A Medal & GC Medal. Menitioned in Despatches.  Retired aged 40 16/1/1908.  V Good Character.
 Service Record has now been found, with nothing on Great War.
Title: Re: Joseph Cotterill
Post by: mack on July 24, 2019, 06:54:32 AM
this officer is entitled to war grave status,he was still serving when he died,it doesn't matter what his cause of death was

his son drummer 9806 joseph cotterill died in ashton infirmary during a stomach operation on 28-9-1931,he enlisted in 1904 as a boy soldier,he re-enlisted in the 9th manchesters as pte 3518519 on 31-1-1923.
resided 167 turner lane,ashton

Title: Re: Joseph Cotterill
Post by: Tim Bell on July 24, 2019, 08:16:28 AM
I will ask IFCP. 
Title: Re: Joseph Cotterill
Post by: Tim Bell on September 08, 2019, 03:08:33 PM
DC confirms Lt Cotterill died of Broncho Pneumonia. 
I have a copy of the huge service file and this confirms he died while serving as Lt QM in the Regiment, albeit at home have been determined as permanently unfit.  He was paid to the date of death though, but never arrived with 13th Bttn after his commission was approved.  Previously QMS with 14th Bttn from 9/1914.
Four sons served in the Regiment, with 3 at 4th Bttn after their father died.  William Francis KIA 14th November 1914.
Youngest son with 2nd wife served in Grenadiers.

IFCP have submitted to NAM and we're confident Lt Cotterill will be commemorated.
Title: Re: Joseph Cotterill
Post by: Tim Bell on September 08, 2019, 03:12:41 PM
this officer is entitled to war grave status,he was still serving when he died,it doesn't matter what his cause of death was

his son drummer 9806 joseph cotterill died in ashton infirmary during a stomach operation on 28-9-1931,he enlisted in 1904 as a boy soldier,he re-enlisted in the 9th manchesters as pte 3518519 on 31-1-1923.
resided 167 turner lane,ashton


Joseph Jnr had also had a stomach operation in 1914 & was discharged with a Pension with ongoing condition.  Where did you find this info on his death Mack?
Title: Re: Joseph Cotterill
Post by: mack on September 10, 2019, 05:59:01 PM
he has a service record tim.

mack
Title: Re: Joseph Cotterill
Post by: Tim Bell on September 11, 2019, 07:17:59 AM
Thanks Mack,
Read it twice and can see it in 3rd occasion.  As his stomack condition was aggravated by service, there's an argument, Joseph Jnr was also a Great War casualty, albeit too late.
T
Title: Re: Joseph Cotterill
Post by: mack on September 11, 2019, 09:13:47 AM
there are plenty in this section who are entitled to war grave status

mack
Title: Re: Joseph Cotterill
Post by: Tim Bell on October 01, 2019, 04:44:01 PM
Cpl 20416 J Cotterill was in 18th Pln E Coy of 22nd Bttn in the Book of Honour.  I can't find any medal records for him and wonder if it was Joseph Cotterill, before transfer to 14th Bttn and commission in 13th Bttn.  Any ideas?
Title: Re: Joseph Cotterill
Post by: mack on October 01, 2019, 06:16:36 PM
Cpl 20416 William Cotterill,26 pump st,hulme
bricklayer
aged 38
married with 7 kid
discharged 10-7-15 varicous veins,deafness and ulcers

mack
Title: Re: Joseph Cotterill
Post by: Tim Bell on October 01, 2019, 08:28:41 PM
Thanks Mack
Title: Re: Joseph Cotterill
Post by: Tim Bell on October 03, 2019, 02:02:37 PM
Kenneth Johnson Cotterill was Joseph's youngest son.  He was in the Grenadier Guards in 1931 at the Tower of London.  I can't see him on any Medal Rolls.  Are there any other resources to look for, to see if he served in 2nd World War?