The Manchester Regiment Forum

The Great War => 1914 - 1918 => Topic started by: timberman on October 20, 2016, 07:27:15 PM

Title: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: timberman on October 20, 2016, 07:27:15 PM
Please note, I had already covered this topic last October so have now merged the two topics
and removed the posts that duplicate each other.

Looking through my files for information on 287 Pte Jack Bass  2nd Bn Manchester's
for Philips topic I found the following!

In the 2nd Bn war diaries it say's the following for the 20th Oct 1914

Casualties

Officers
Wounded, 2nd Lt R Walker, H Price, H Walker
Missing, Captain Arthur George Tillard, 2nd Lt W Balshaw, G Dixon
Killed 6 NCO's and men
Wounded 112 NCO's and men
Missing 69 NCO's and men

So looked for the 6 soldiers killed!!!!!!
A bit of a surprise was in store, this is the list.

GUARDS CEMETERY, WINDY CORNER, CUINCHY, Pas de Calais, France


SHORT, Private, A, 8606, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Grave Ref.
IV. F. 26.

TIERNEY, Private, S, 9176, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Grave
Ref. IV. F. 12.

WALKER, Second Lieutenant, REGINALD FYDELL, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment.
Died of wounds 21 October 1914. Age 20. Son of David and Martha Elizabeth Walker,
late of Kirkby Fleetham Vicarage, Bedale, Yorks. Educated at Shrewsbury School,
1908-13, Head of House, School Prefect, Choregus School football team. R.M.C.
Sandhurst, 1913-14. Born at Grinton Vicarage, Richmond, Yorks. Grave Ref. VII. F. 39.

LE TOURET MEMORIAL, Pas de Calais, France

APTHORPE, Private, EDWARD, 2666, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35
.
BALSHAW, Second Lieutenant, WALTER, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 24. Son of Florence E. A. Balshaw, of 571, Chorley Old Rd., Bolton, and the
late Walter Balshaw (Solicitor). Panels 34 and 35.

BASS, Private, JACK, 287, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels 34
and 35.

BATTLES, Corporal, DOMINICK, 6493, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

BEECH, Private, JAMES, 229, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

BURNS, Private, JOHN HENRY, 8685, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

BUTTERWORTH, Private, REUBEN, 6006, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

CAIN, Private, THOMAS, 5752, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

CASSIDY, Private, DAVID, 9912, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age
48. Husband of Jane Rowlands (formerly Cassidy), of Bromebyd, Llannon, Llanelly,
Carmarthenshire. Panels 34 and 35.

COFFEY, Private, JEREMIAH, 7934, "A" Coy. 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Age 30. Son of Arm Coffey, of 58, Albion St., Salford, Manchester, and
the late Jeremiah Coffey. Panels 34 and 35.

COOKE, Private, WALTER, 8760, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 32. Husband of Emily Grace (formerly Cooke), of 6, Mount Place Salford,
Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

COWLEY, Private, HENRY, 9904, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.
26 hethorn st,newton heath

DALBY, Private, JOHN, 9073, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

DALEY, Private, JAMES, 511, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

DENNIS, Private, JOSEPH, 533, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

DIXON, Lieutenant, GEORGE, Mentioned in Despatches, 2nd Bn., Manchester
Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age 26. Son of Annie S. Dixon, of "Leeward", Sibson Rd.,
Sale, Manchester, and the late Isaiah Dixon. Gazetted 2nd Lt. 18th May, 1912, to Special
Reserve. Panels 34 and 35.

DOLAN, Private, JOHN, 8638, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.
Dunmore,galway

DOYLE, Private, ALEXANDER, 9342, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.
5 chatham st,widnes

DRINKWATER, Private, EDWARD NAYLOR, 9092, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment.
20 October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

DUNNE, Private, THOMAS, 527, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age
29. Son of Mrs. Ann Dunne. Panels 34 and 35.

FARAM, Private, CHARLES, 8703, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

FITTON, Private, WILLIAM HENRY, 9814, 2nd Bn, Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.
12 great newton st newton heath

GAZZARD, Private, WILLIAM, 2453, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

GILL, Lance Corporal, WILLIAM, 189, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 26. Husband of Elizabeth Annie Gill, of 198, Claremont Rd., Moss Side,
Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

GRAY, Private, PETER, 284, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

GRUNDY, Private, ROBERT, 9636, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 38. Son of Francis and Margaret Grundy. Panels 34 and 35.
samfield crescent,st.helens

HANNON, Private, JOHN, 8927, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

HENNESSEY, Private, THOMAS, 9662, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.
68 ashton rd,droylesden

HOLDSWORTH, Private, THOMAS, 8206, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

HOLLAND, Private, DANIEL, 8850, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

MAHERS, Private, WILLIAM, 8577, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 32. Son of James and Kathleen Mahers, of 54, Castle St., Coventry; husband of
Mary Griffiths (formerly Mahers), of 30 Court, 3 House, Spon St., Coventry. Panels 34
and 35.

MANSFIELD, Private, JAMES, 2374, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

McCARTHY, Private, JOHN CHARLES, 8867, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Age 30. Son of John and Amelia McCarthy, of 96, Salisbury St.,
Liverpool; husband of Frances Bolger (formerly McCarthy), of 4, Manfield St., Erskine
St., Liverpool. Panels 34 and 35.

McGARREY, Lance Corporal, EDWARD, 150, "C" Coy. 2nd Bn., Manchester
Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age 25. Son of Joseph and the late Bridget McGarrey, of 19,
Sandford St., Salford, Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

McKENZIE, Private, ALEXANDER, 2536, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

McKEOWN, Private, JAMES, 9279, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 27. Son of Mrs. Mary McKeown; husband of Rosalina McKeown, of 27 Chapman
St., Oldham. Panels 34 and 35.

McMANUS, Private, JOHN, 9736, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 31. Husband of Agnes Moorhead (formerly McManus), of 29, Chilworth St.,
Rusholme, Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

McQUADE, Private, JAMES, 2473, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 22. Son of Mrs. Ada McQuade, of 12, Kelly St., Kentish Town, London. Panels 34
and 35.

METCALFE, Private, ALBERT EDWARD, 76, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

MOIR, Private, JOHN, 375, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age 37.
Son of Mrs. B. Chapman, of Gariochsford Cottage, Rothie Norman, Aberdeenshire.
Panels 34 and 35.

MORAN, Private, JAMES, 8173, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age
33. Son of the late Bernard and Mary Ann Moran; husband of Mary Ann Singleton
(formerly Moran), of 15, Higson St., Bolton. Panels 34 and 35.

MORRIS, Lance Corporal, JAMES ARTHUR, 8471, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.
47 wellington st,bradford manchester

MUNROE, Private, WILLIAM JOHN, 9524, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

NUTTALL, Private, ELLIS, 74, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

O'BRIEN, Private, ALFRED, 8980, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 32. Son of Mrs. Mary O'Brien. Panels 34 and 35.

O'DONNELL, Private, WILLIAM JAMES, 9210, 1st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
December 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

OWEN, Private, EDMOND, 8552, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age
32. Husband of Elizabeth Ann Owen, of 11, Debenham Avenue, Briscoe Lane, Newton
Heath, Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

PEARSON, Private, GEORGE, 8772, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

POCOCK, Private, EDWARD, 8826, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

RATCLIFFE, Private, JAMES, 733, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

RINGER, Private, WILLIAM, 8074, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

SHAWCROSS, Private, ALBERT, 2423, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 20. Son of Jack and Hannah Shawcross, of 17, Ross St., West Gorton,
Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

SMITH, Private, GEORGE, 325, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

SMITH, Private, HAROLD, 8523, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.
22 Stanley st.hulme

STACKHOUSE, Private, JOHN, 9486, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 30. Son of John and Alice Stackhouse; husband of Gertrude Stackhouse, of
 Panels 34 and 35.
166 peel st tranmere

STUBBS, Private, RICHARD, 5516, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

TILLARD, Captain, ARTHUR GEORGE, 3rd Bn. attd. "A" Coy. 2nd Bn., Manchester
Regiment. Killed in action at Les Trois Maisons 20 October 1914. Age 39. Son of the
Rev. James Tillard; husband of Emily Katherine Tillard (nee Close-Brooks), of Maltmas
Green, Denham, Bucks. Served in the South African Campaign. Panels 34 and 35.

WALKER, Private, HERBERT, 921, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 27. Son of the late Walter and Elizabeth Walker; husband of Helen Desmond
(formerly Walker), of 1858, 33rd Avenue, South Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.
Panels 34 and 35.

WALKER, Private, WILLIAM, 2725, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

WALL, Lance Corporal, SAMUEL, 77, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

WALL, Private, SAMUEL, 2615, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

WEMYSS, Private, ARTHUR, 308, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

WILLIAMS, Private, CHARLES, 8998, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 32. Husband of Annie de Cock (formerly Williams), of 10, Duke St.,
Blaenavon, Monmouth. Panels 34 and 35.

WINGRAVE, Private, THOMAS, 8583, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

WINSPEAR, Private, HARRY, 8534, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

WOOD, Private, JOHN, 8207, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

WRENN, Private, KEROI EDWARD, 347, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.


Foot note

I have included  Second Lieutenant, REGINALD FYDELL WALKER, although not killed on the
20th he died the following day from wounds he received during the fighting on the 20th
 
Private Ellis Nuttall (Manchester Regiment) was killed. His son will be killed in World War II.

There are 69 soldiers of the 2nd Bn Manchester's that died this day, most with no known grave.

Timberman
Title: Re: 2nd Bn casualties on the 20th Oct 1914
Post by: Pete Th on October 20, 2016, 08:29:35 PM
Capt Tillard was posted to the 11th Battalion for a very short time but presumably he was summoned to the front to replace officer casualties in the 2nd.
Title: Re: 2nd Bn casualties on the 20th Oct 1914
Post by: timberman on October 20, 2016, 09:02:16 PM
He's listed on the 1914 army list as a Captain in the 3rd
on Retired Pay.
He joined the 2nd Bn in France 16/09/1914.

There was also an Officer Arthur Kenneth Dowell Tillard
with the 1st Bn, but I have not found a family link yet.

Timberman
Title: Re: 2nd Bn casualties on the 20th Oct 1914
Post by: Pete Th on October 20, 2016, 09:46:35 PM
Hi Neil, I took the info from the unpublished 11th Battalion history. I'm away from my laptop tonight but I'll post the entry tomorrow. It definitely referred to Arthur George Tillard.

Regards
Pete
Title: Re: 2nd Bn casualties on the 20th Oct 1914
Post by: timberman on October 20, 2016, 10:28:11 PM
Thanks Pete
Title: Re: 2nd Bn casualties on the 20th Oct 1914
Post by: PhilipG on October 21, 2016, 11:35:19 AM
Timberman,

Congratulations on the calibre of your research.   As regards 2nd Lt. R.F.Walker (DOW 21.10.14) :-

I note that this officer's name is recorded on the Tablet erected in respect of the Manchester Regt. in the Memorial Chapel of the Royal Military College, Sandhurst.  He was gazetted to the Manchesters upon leaving Sandhurst and was mortally wounded during a bayonet charge at Trois Maisons, dying the following day.  PhilipG.
Title: Re: 2nd Bn casualties on the 20th Oct 1914
Post by: timberman on October 21, 2016, 08:07:48 PM
Thank you Philip
The war Diaries are well worth investing in, if anyone
would like to read what their ancestors went through.

They are available to download  for all Battalions.

Timberman 
Title: Re: 2nd Bn casualties on the 20th Oct 1914
Post by: Pete Th on October 23, 2016, 09:27:53 AM
Hi Neil, I took the info from the unpublished 11th Battalion history. I'm away from my laptop tonight but I'll post the entry tomorrow. It definitely referred to Arthur George Tillard.

Neil, I made a mistake. I didn't get the info from the unpublished history, I found it in a book called "The Manchesters" by Campbell, G.L., Captain (1916). Uckfield: The Naval & Military Press.

I can't find my copy of the book but the following in my 11th Bn history is based on info contained within it:

"Other officers who trained the raw recruits during these early days included Captain Arthur George Tillard, Captain Leo Creagh (both veterans of the South Africa War), Captain Irwin and Captain Cruikshank (attached from the Indian Army). They only remained with the battalion for a short time as they were badly needed to replace casualties on the Western Front. Fate was not kind to them; Captain Tillard was killed in action serving with the 2nd Battalion in October 1914 and Captain Creagh was killed two months later, serving with the 1st Battalion in France. A third officer, Captain Cruikshank, was wounded before the year was out."

The book is well worth buying. Campbell was an officer in the Royal Artillery and he published the book in 1916.

Regards
Pete
Title: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: timberman on January 05, 2017, 02:09:14 PM
In the war diary for the 20th October 1914.

The entry is, click on the pictures to make them bigger.

Neil
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: mack on January 05, 2017, 10:34:55 PM
there are 8 unknown manchesters buried in the same row as 8606 Arthur short,all were found in the same spot,[A7.B.3.3]

mack
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: charlie on January 06, 2017, 07:59:23 AM
Only three of the missing are recorded as a PoW.

6539 Cpl James Bereford
9526 Pte George Budd
9854 Pte John Reddey

Charlie
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: timberman on January 06, 2017, 10:12:25 AM
Thank you Mack and Charlie for the addition information.

Also in GUARDS CEMETERY, WINDY CORNER, CUINCHY, Pas de Calais, France

TOMLINSON, Private, J, 8888, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 21 October 1914. Grave
Ref. VI. F. 40. was the only soldier from the 2nd Bn to die on the 21st

Sadly
Second Lieutenant, REGINALD FYDELL WALKER, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment.
Died of wounds 21 October 1914. Age 20. Son of David and Martha Elizabeth Walker,
late of Kirkby Fleetham Vicarage, Bedale, Yorks. Educated at Shrewsbury School,
1908-13, Head of House, School Prefect, Choregus School football team. R.M.C.
Sandhurst, 1913-14. Born at Grinton Vicarage, Richmond, Yorks. Grave Ref. VII. F. 39.

This was from wounds received on the 20th.

Neil
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: PhilipG on January 06, 2017, 10:45:01 AM
The History of the 5th Division, (the 2nd Manchesters were in the 14th Brigade of that Division), draws attention to the fact that in the course of 60 days, the Division had fought at Mons, Le Cateau, on the Marne and on the Aisne.  It goes on.  The Division was subject to attack all day and every day.  Divisional staffs were continuously faced with a crisis, such as a battalion needed urgent assistance or news that a breakthrough had occurred.

It goes on to refer to the operations of the 20th October 1914, when the whole British line on the La Bassee front was attacked.   The History reports that when an enemy penetration of the line occurred on the 21st October, the Manchesters at Trois Maisons came forward and made "a fine bayonet charge" as the German attackers came within 200 yards; a charge in which the battalion lost heavily.  PhilipG.
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: timberman on January 06, 2017, 11:17:20 AM
Thank you Philip for the additional information.

I found the following from the IWM site with regards to
Captain, ARTHUR GEORGE TILLARD,

Neil
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: timberman on January 06, 2017, 11:36:23 AM
The photo is from the IWM as well.

If you down load the paper clipping you can read what it say's
better.
In the clipping it  say's his wife received two or three letters from
Captain E Von Selasinky ADC of the 25th Brigade of infantry Prussian
Army. One has a sketch map showing where the Germans buried him.

His son was born in early 1915.

Neil 
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: timberman on January 06, 2017, 11:44:27 AM
Also there is a oval plaque in St Mary’s Church,
Denham, Buckinghamshire, near Uxbridge, West London


Captain Arthur George Tillard, d.1914, killed in action near La Bassoc,
and son David George Tillard, d.1929 in Marlborough, erected by the
unnamed wife and mother. An oval plaque with a narrow border and
cartouche with painted emblem on top.

Neil
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: charlie on January 06, 2017, 02:51:44 PM
Enquiries were made to the Red Cross in December 1914 regarding the fate of Capt. Tillard. Capt Selasinky was luckier and appears to have survived the war.

Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: PhilipG on January 06, 2017, 03:20:21 PM
I take it that "Mrs Tillard's brother who had received a commission in the same regiment" was Captain Arthur Brooks Close-Brooks MC late of the 3rd Manchesters who DOW on the 10th January 1917 and is buried in Amara War Cemetery.  PhilipG.
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: timberman on January 06, 2017, 06:44:44 PM
 
2nd Lieutenant Reginald Walker's lived at the Vicarage, Darlington
grandfather, John Walker (1803 in Kent), was a high court judge in India.
Reginald's father, Reverend David Walker, was born in Germany in 1854.
He married Martha Elizabeth Smith in Leeds in 1892 and Reginald was
born in 1894.

Neil
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: timberman on January 06, 2017, 06:49:41 PM
Although Second Lieutenant  H W PRICE was wounded on the
20th October 1914 he would die later in the war.

His entry in the CWGC site.

PRICE, H W
Rank:
Second Lieutenant
Date of Death:
04/07/1916
Regiment/Service:
Manchester Regiment
4th Bn. attd. 2nd Bn.
Grave Reference:
F. 65.
Cemetery:
AVELUY COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSIOn

Neil
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: timberman on January 06, 2017, 06:55:37 PM
The following information can be found on this web site

http://www.ww1.manchester.ac.uk/

Walter Balshaw2nd Lieutenant, 2nd Battalion Manchester Regiment.
Killed in action on Tuesday 20th October 1914 near La Bassee, age 24.
Remembered on Le Touret Memorial, France, Panels 34 and 35.
Former student of Science.
 

Born in 1890 at Bolton to Walter Balshaw, Solicitor, and E.A. Balshaw of 571 Chorley Old Road, Bolton.
Walter attended Bolton Municipal Secondary School where he was both cricket and football captain.
In the years 1906-9 he acted as Chief Prefect. He entered the University of Manchester in 1910 to
study science and continued to play cricket gaining the “Christie” bat for bowling and his colours in 1913.
As a member of the Officer Training Corps from October 1910 to July 1913 he obtained the proficiency
certificates “A” and “B” and was awarded a commission in 1913 as a Second Lieutenant in the Special
Reserve of Officers, Manchester Regiment.
At the outbreak of war Walter was an Assistant Master at Lancaster Grammar School, but he was about
 to take up an appointment on the staff of Fareham School, Hampshire.
Missing after an engagement near La Bassee on 20th October 1914 Walter’s death was not reported by
the Manchester Guardian until 21st December 1916 when he was officially presumed to have been killed
or died.  (Another University man, George Dixon, also went missing on the same day from the same battalion.)
Walter has no known grave.
Commemorated on:
University of Manchester War Memorial, Main Quadrangle.
St. George’s Road Congregational Church and Mission War Memorial, Bolton.
Bolton Municipal Secondary School Memorial, located at Bolton St Catherine’s Academy.

Acknowledgements/Sources:
The Manchester Guardian, 21st December 1916.
Tameside Local Studies and Archive Centre, ref: MR2/25/18.
The Serpent, Roll of Honour Supplement to Vol II, 1917-18, University of Manchester Archive.
WO 95/1564/2, 2nd Manchester Regiment War Diary, The National Archives.


Neil
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: timberman on January 06, 2017, 06:59:34 PM
The following information can be found on this web site

http://www.ww1.manchester.ac.uk/

George Dixon
Lieutenant, 2nd Battalion Manchester Regiment.
Killed in action on Tuesday 20th October 1914 at
Les Trois Maisons, near La Bassee, age 26.
Remembered on Le Touret Memorial, France, Panels 34 and 35.
Former student of Mechanical Engineering.
 
George Dixon was born in 1888 at Sale, son of the late Isaiah and Annie S. Dixon
of ‘Leeward’, Sibson Road, Sale, Cheshire. He was educated at Manchester Central
School, and, as a 21 year-old, in 1909 entered Manchester University to study Mechanical
Engineering. He was a junior Draughtsman to Professor J. T. Nicholson in the Mechanical
 Engineering Department (Faculty of Technology), and held a commission in the Special
Reserve of Officers of Manchester University Officer Training Corp of which he was a
member from April 1908 to May 1912. He had worked with Messrs. Churchill and Co,
Manchester and Messrs. Hans Renold Ltd. He was a prominent rugby player and played
for Sale Rugby Football Club and Cheshire.
The 2nd Manchester Regiment War Diary records that on the 19th October the battalion
reached Les Trois Maisons. At 9am the next day the enemy advanced along the battalion’s
front and left flank, heavy fighting ensued comprising heavy fire action. Two platoons of “A”
Company, led by Dixon and a Captain, made “gallant bayonet charges”. The fighting continued
 until dusk when the battalion retired to it’s support trenches covering Lorges. Dixon was
noted as missing, (as was another University man, Walter Balshaw). George was Mentioned in
Despatches and has no known grave.
Commemorated on:
University of Manchester War Memorial, Main Quadrangle.
Manchester Municipal College of Technology Memorial in the Sackville Building, University of Manchester.

Acknowledgements/Sources:
Researched by Neil Shuttleworth, Prof. H.C.A. Hankins and Pen Richardson.
WO 95/1564/2, 2nd Manchester Regiment War Diary, The National Archives.
The Manchester University Magazine, Volume XI No.10 June 24th, 1915, University of Manchester Archive.

Neil
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: Tim Bell on January 06, 2017, 11:01:13 PM
Although Second Lieutenant  H W PRICE was wounded on the
20th October 1914 he would die later in the war.

His entry in the CWGC site.

PRICE, H W
Rank:
Second Lieutenant
Date of Death:
04/07/1916
Regiment/Service:
Manchester Regiment
4th Bn. attd. 2nd Bn.
Grave Reference:
F. 65.
Cemetery:
AVELUY COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSIOn

Neil
Henry Wall Price worked at CWS Architects Dept. He was a member of 4th Special Reserve Bttn, with his father who died in 1919 with Rank as Major
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: PhilipG on January 07, 2017, 12:23:12 PM
Timberman & Charlie,

                                  Captain Arthur George Tillard

May I make some observations relating to this officer which have emerged from your excellent research?

Firstly, I refer to Reply No. 15 in which Timberman refers to a commemorative plaque in St.Mary's church in Denham, Buckinghamshire, where Tillard's wife resided.  I assume the "unnamed mother" will be Mrs Emily Katherine Tillard (nee Close-Brooks).   Reference is made on this plaque to the sad death of Tillard's son - David George Tillard - who died in 1929 in Marlborough.  I wonder whether or not David Tillard was a pupil at Marlborough College at that time - one of England's top public schools?

Secondly, I refer to Reply No.13 and in particular, to the newspaper cutting in which reference is made to Mrs Tillard's brother, which I suggested would be Arthur Brooks Close-Brooks', who died on active service with the Manchesters and  is buried in Amara War Cemetery.   I wonder if I am correct in that assumption?

Thirdly, I turn to Reply No. 16 and Charlie's helpful contribution, where it seems, in addition to enquiries by Mrs Tillard, there were enquiries by a Miss Tillard of St.Ives, Hunts. (the Captain's sister?) and it would appear from persons domiciled in Switzerland, too.  Is that interpretation correct, Charlie?

Finally, I note that Captain Tillard's name is, like that of 2nd Lt. R.F.Walker,recorded on the Tablet relating to the Manchester Regt. in the Royal Military College's Memorial Chapel at Sandhurst.   PhilipG.,
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: charlie on January 07, 2017, 01:37:23 PM
Philip,
You are correct. Enquiries were made by the following:
Mrs Tillard
Mrs Cocke
Mrs Venning
Miss Tillard - Hemingford Grey
Mlle Laure de Wild, resident in Münchenbuchsee, Canton Bern
Mme Dunant of Geneve.

If my very poor understanding of the French language is correct, it was thought he may have been a PoW in Darmstadt. There is also a reference to Amsterdam. Perhaps someone who understands French could be more specific.

Unfortunately none of the documents relating to the enquiries have survived.

Charlie
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: PhilipG on January 07, 2017, 02:19:46 PM
Charlie,

Thank you.  PhilipG.
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2017, 05:12:26 PM
A break down of soldiers in the 2nd Bn from the 17th of Oct 1914
and the 31st of Oct 1914.

The figures are based on the soldiers that the 14th Infantry Brigade
could call on to go into the trenches.

17th October 1914,
 
20 Officers
869 Other ranks

21st October 1914,

12 Officers
796 Other ranks

By the 31st of October 1914

9 Officers
480 Other ranks

Neil
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: mack on January 07, 2017, 05:53:18 PM

quote]The following information can be found on this web site

http://www.ww1.manchester.ac.uk/

Walter Balshaw2nd Lieutenant, 2nd Battalion Manchester Regiment.
Killed in action on Tuesday 20th October 1914 near La Bassee, age 24.
Remembered on Le Touret Memorial, France, Panels 34 and 35.
Former student of Science.
 

Born in 1890 at Bolton to Walter Balshaw, Solicitor, and E.A. Balshaw of 571 Chorley Old Road, Bolton.
Walter attended Bolton Municipal Secondary School where he was both cricket and football captain.
In the years 1906-9 he acted as Chief Prefect. He entered the University of Manchester in 1910 to
study science and continued to play cricket gaining the “Christie” bat for bowling and his colours in 1913.
As a member of the Officer Training Corps from October 1910 to July 1913 he obtained the proficiency
certificates “A” and “B” and was awarded a commission in 1913 as a Second Lieutenant in the Special
Reserve of Officers, Manchester Regiment.
At the outbreak of war Walter was an Assistant Master at Lancaster Grammar School, but he was about
 to take up an appointment on the staff of Fareham School, Hampshire.
Missing after an engagement near La Bassee on 20th October 1914 Walter’s death was not reported by
the Manchester Guardian until 21st December 1916 when he was officially presumed to have been killed
or died.  (Another University man, George Dixon, also went missing on the same day from the same battalion.)
Walter has no known grave.
Commemorated on:
University of Manchester War Memorial, Main Quadrangle.
St. George’s Road Congregational Church and Mission War Memorial, Bolton.
Bolton Municipal Secondary School Memorial, located at Bolton St Catherine’s Academy.

Acknowledgements/Sources:
The Manchester Guardian, 21st December 1916.
Tameside Local Studies and Archive Centre, ref: MR2/25/18.
The Serpent, Roll of Honour Supplement to Vol II, 1917-18, University of Manchester Archive.
WO 95/1564/2, 2nd Manchester Regiment War Diary, The National Archives.


Neil[/quote]

his father wrote to as many of his men as possible to try and find out what happened to him.

mack
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: charlie on January 07, 2017, 06:49:43 PM
In the clipping it  say's his wife received two or three letters from
Captain E Von Selasinky ADC of the 25th Brigade of infantry Prussian
Army.

Neil 

Hauptmann Eberhard Karl Gustav Alfred Hermann von Selasen-Selasinsky was, as to be expected, a pre war soldier. Post war, as a retired Major, he was involved in a minor way in returning Crown Prince Wilhelm (the Kaiser's son) to Germany after he had spent 5 years in exile in Holland. He was recalled for the next war and ended up as a Lt. Col. in the Luftwaffe. He lived to the age of 95 and died in 1974.

Perhaps more relevant to the Regiment is that he was, as stated in the newspaper cutting, an ADC in the 25th Infantry Brigade when he wrote the letters. He was in fact an officer in IR158, which was a component of 25 Inf Bde, and was a Company Commander at the start of the war. Manchester Hill in 1918 was thus not the first time the Regiment had faced IR158.

Charlie
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2017, 06:55:15 PM
Thank you Charlie

It all helps to build a bigger picture on the history of the 2nd Bn.

Neil
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: mack on September 19, 2019, 09:30:58 AM
Please note, I had already covered this topic last October so have now merged the two topics
and removed the posts that duplicate each other.

Looking through my files for information on 287 Pte Jack Bass  2nd Bn Manchester's
for Philips topic I found the following!

In the 2nd Bn war diaries it say's the following for the 20th Oct 1914

Casualties

Officers
Wounded, 2nd Lt R Walker, H Price, H Walker
Missing, Captain Arthur George Tillard, 2nd Lt W Balshaw, G Dixon
Killed 6 NCO's and men
Wounded 112 NCO's and men
Missing 69 NCO's and men

So looked for the 6 soldiers killed!!!!!!
A bit of a surprise was in store, this is the list.

GUARDS CEMETERY, WINDY CORNER, CUINCHY, Pas de Calais, France


SHORT, Private, A, 8606, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Grave Ref.
IV. F. 26.

TIERNEY, Private, S, 9176, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Grave
Ref. IV. F. 12.

WALKER, Second Lieutenant, REGINALD FYDELL, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment.
Died of wounds 21 October 1914. Age 20. Son of David and Martha Elizabeth Walker,
late of Kirkby Fleetham Vicarage, Bedale, Yorks. Educated at Shrewsbury School,
1908-13, Head of House, School Prefect, Choregus School football team. R.M.C.
Sandhurst, 1913-14. Born at Grinton Vicarage, Richmond, Yorks. Grave Ref. VII. F. 39.

LE TOURET MEMORIAL, Pas de Calais, France

APTHORPE, Private, EDWARD, 2666, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35
.
BALSHAW, Second Lieutenant, WALTER, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 24. Son of Florence E. A. Balshaw, of 571, Chorley Old Rd., Bolton, and the
late Walter Balshaw (Solicitor). Panels 34 and 35.

BASS, Private, JACK, 287, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels 34
and 35.

BATTLES, Corporal, DOMINICK, 6493, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

BEECH, Private, JAMES, 229, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

BURNS, Private, JOHN HENRY, 8685, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

BUTTERWORTH, Private, REUBEN, 6006, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

CAIN, Private, THOMAS, 5752, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

CASSIDY, Private, DAVID, 9912, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age
48. Husband of Jane Rowlands (formerly Cassidy), of Bromebyd, Llannon, Llanelly,
Carmarthenshire. Panels 34 and 35.

COFFEY, Private, JEREMIAH, 7934, "A" Coy. 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Age 30. Son of Arm Coffey, of 58, Albion St., Salford, Manchester, and
the late Jeremiah Coffey. Panels 34 and 35.

COOKE, Private, WALTER, 8760, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 32. Husband of Emily Grace (formerly Cooke), of 6, Mount Place Salford,
Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

COWLEY, Private, HENRY, 9904, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.
26 hethorn st,newton heath

DALBY, Private, JOHN, 9073, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

DALEY, Private, JAMES, 511, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

DENNIS, Private, JOSEPH, 533, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

DIXON, Lieutenant, GEORGE, Mentioned in Despatches, 2nd Bn., Manchester
Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age 26. Son of Annie S. Dixon, of "Leeward", Sibson Rd.,
Sale, Manchester, and the late Isaiah Dixon. Gazetted 2nd Lt. 18th May, 1912, to Special
Reserve. Panels 34 and 35.

DOLAN, Private, JOHN, 8638, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.
Dunmore,galway

DOYLE, Private, ALEXANDER, 9342, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.
5 chatham st,widnes

DRINKWATER, Private, EDWARD NAYLOR, 9092, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment.
20 October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

DUNNE, Private, THOMAS, 527, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age
29. Son of Mrs. Ann Dunne. Panels 34 and 35.

FARAM, Private, CHARLES, 8703, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

FITTON, Private, WILLIAM HENRY, 9814, 2nd Bn, Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.
12 great newton st newton heath

GAZZARD, Private, WILLIAM, 2453, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

GILL, Lance Corporal, WILLIAM, 189, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 26. Husband of Elizabeth Annie Gill, of 198, Claremont Rd., Moss Side,
Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

GRAY, Private, PETER, 284, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

GRUNDY, Private, ROBERT, 9636, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 38. Son of Francis and Margaret Grundy. Panels 34 and 35.
samfield crescent,st.helens

HANNON, Private, JOHN, 8927, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

HENNESSEY, Private, THOMAS, 9662, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.
68 ashton rd,droylesden

HOLDSWORTH, Private, THOMAS, 8206, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

HOLLAND, Private, DANIEL, 8850, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

MAHERS, Private, WILLIAM, 8577, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 32. Son of James and Kathleen Mahers, of 54, Castle St., Coventry; husband of
Mary Griffiths (formerly Mahers), of 30 Court, 3 House, Spon St., Coventry. Panels 34
and 35.

MANSFIELD, Private, JAMES, 2374, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

McCARTHY, Private, JOHN CHARLES, 8867, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Age 30. Son of John and Amelia McCarthy, of 96, Salisbury St.,
Liverpool; husband of Frances Bolger (formerly McCarthy), of 4, Manfield St., Erskine
St., Liverpool. Panels 34 and 35.

McGARREY, Lance Corporal, EDWARD, 150, "C" Coy. 2nd Bn., Manchester
Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age 25. Son of Joseph and the late Bridget McGarrey, of 19,
Sandford St., Salford, Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

McKENZIE, Private, ALEXANDER, 2536, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

McKEOWN, Private, JAMES, 9279, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 27. Son of Mrs. Mary McKeown; husband of Rosalina McKeown, of 27 Chapman
St., Oldham. Panels 34 and 35.

McMANUS, Private, JOHN, 9736, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 31. Husband of Agnes Moorhead (formerly McManus), of 29, Chilworth St.,
Rusholme, Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

McQUADE, Private, JAMES, 2473, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 22. Son of Mrs. Ada McQuade, of 12, Kelly St., Kentish Town, London. Panels 34
and 35.

METCALFE, Private, ALBERT EDWARD, 76, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

MOIR, Private, JOHN, 375, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age 37.
Son of Mrs. B. Chapman, of Gariochsford Cottage, Rothie Norman, Aberdeenshire.
Panels 34 and 35.

MORAN, Private, JAMES, 8173, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age
33. Son of the late Bernard and Mary Ann Moran; husband of Mary Ann Singleton
(formerly Moran), of 15, Higson St., Bolton. Panels 34 and 35.

MORRIS, Lance Corporal, JAMES ARTHUR, 8471, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.
47 wellington st,bradford manchester

MUNROE, Private, WILLIAM JOHN, 9524, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
October 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

NUTTALL, Private, ELLIS, 74, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

O'BRIEN, Private, ALFRED, 8980, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 32. Son of Mrs. Mary O'Brien. Panels 34 and 35.

O'DONNELL, Private, WILLIAM JAMES, 9210, 1st Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20
December 1914. Panels 34 and 35.

OWEN, Private, EDMOND, 8552, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Age
32. Husband of Elizabeth Ann Owen, of 11, Debenham Avenue, Briscoe Lane, Newton
Heath, Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

PEARSON, Private, GEORGE, 8772, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

POCOCK, Private, EDWARD, 8826, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

RATCLIFFE, Private, JAMES, 733, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

RINGER, Private, WILLIAM, 8074, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

SHAWCROSS, Private, ALBERT, 2423, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 20. Son of Jack and Hannah Shawcross, of 17, Ross St., West Gorton,
Manchester. Panels 34 and 35.

SMITH, Private, GEORGE, 325, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

SMITH, Private, HAROLD, 8523, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.
22 Stanley st.hulme

STACKHOUSE, Private, JOHN, 9486, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 30. Son of John and Alice Stackhouse; husband of Gertrude Stackhouse, of
 Panels 34 and 35.
166 peel st tranmere

STUBBS, Private, RICHARD, 5516, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

TILLARD, Captain, ARTHUR GEORGE, 3rd Bn. attd. "A" Coy. 2nd Bn., Manchester
Regiment. Killed in action at Les Trois Maisons 20 October 1914. Age 39. Son of the
Rev. James Tillard; husband of Emily Katherine Tillard (nee Close-Brooks), of Maltmas
Green, Denham, Bucks. Served in the South African Campaign. Panels 34 and 35.

WALKER, Private, HERBERT, 921, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Age 27. Son of the late Walter and Elizabeth Walker; husband of Helen Desmond
(formerly Walker), of 1858, 33rd Avenue, South Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.
Panels 34 and 35.

WALKER, Private, WILLIAM, 2725, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

WALL, Lance Corporal, SAMUEL, 77, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

WALL, Private, SAMUEL, 2615, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

WEMYSS, Private, ARTHUR, 308, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

WILLIAMS, Private, CHARLES, 8998, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Age 32. Husband of Annie de Cock (formerly Williams), of 10, Duke St.,
Blaenavon, Monmouth. Panels 34 and 35.

WINGRAVE, Private, THOMAS, 8583, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.

WINSPEAR, Private, HARRY, 8534, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914.
Panels 34 and 35.

WOOD, Private, JOHN, 8207, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October 1914. Panels
34 and 35.

WRENN, Private, KEROI EDWARD, 347, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regiment. 20 October
1914. Panels 34 and 35.


Foot note

I have included  Second Lieutenant, REGINALD FYDELL WALKER, although not killed on the
20th he died the following day from wounds he received during the fighting on the 20th
 
Private Ellis Nuttall (Manchester Regiment) was killed. His son will be killed in World War II.

There are 69 soldiers of the 2nd Bn Manchester's that died this day, most with no known grave.

Timberman
hiya neil
I have edited some info onto your list,and added the address of pte john Stackhouse which was his residence when he was killed,your list had a address that was a CWGC post death address

mack
Title: Re: Not a good day for the 2nd Bn.
Post by: Timberman on September 29, 2019, 04:42:44 PM
Thank you Mack

Only just saw the post.

Neil