The Manchester Regiment Forum

Snippets of the Manchester Regiment => Publications => Topic started by: timberman on August 18, 2016, 10:46:25 PM

Title: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on August 18, 2016, 10:46:25 PM
Topic started by: timberman on January 13, 2009, 09:35:33 AM

Due to the amount of posts missing from the Snippets when the Forum was saved I decided to remove the topic
and redo it. As I already had it backed up as a word document and a PDF file, it will be
reproduced as the original. (Just take a bit of time)  :) :)

I'm starting this thread for bits of information that are found on the Manchester Regiment.
Most will not have any further information to go with the article, if they do we can split the posts and put them in the appropriate section  :)
I've also started using other bits of interest other than the Manchester's (this is a small amount)


Number 1 Taken from Parliamentary papers.


HILLAH FIGHTING (MANCHESTER REGIMENT).

HC Deb 21 October 1920 vol 133 cc1091-2W 1091W
 Sir W. SEAGER
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is able now to supply the House with further information regarding the heavy casualties in July last to the Manchester Regiment in Mesopotamia?
 Lieut.-Colonel HURST
asked the Secretary of State for War what information he can give regarding the fate of the soldiers of the 2nd Battalion Manchester Regiment reported missing in Mesopotamia in July 1092W last; whether there is any hope of their being alive; if so, where they are and how they are being treated; and if he has any information as to Lance-sergeant E. Fryer, No. 79581, and Private T. Howard, No. 88725, of the same unit, both reported missing?
 Mr. CHURCHILL
On 30th July, the General Officer Commanding, Mesopotamia, reported that a small column had been heavily attacked near Hillah on the 24th, and that a total of 205 British other ranks were "missing." The majority of these were understood to belong to the Manchester Regiment. On the 9th August, 78 non-commissioned officers and men of this regiment were reported as known to be prisoners in Arab hands. Subsequent reports as to the treatment of British prisoners have been to the effect that they were well treated by the Arabs. A report received on the morning of the 20th inst. stated that 79 British prisoners were brought in by the Arabs on 19th October and handed over to the 55th Brigade Column. No reports as to their condition have yet been received. The fate of the remainder of the missing men is unknown, and I regret that no further information has been received in the War Office concerning the two soldiers mentioned in the last part of the question by the hon. and gallant Member for Moss Side.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 18, 2016, 10:47:42 PM
This one explains why some under aged soldiers are not released.

UNDER-AGE RECRUITS.

HC Deb 20 November 1919 vol 121 c1158W 1158W
 Mr. TYSON WILSON
asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware that lads of sixteen and seventeen years of age are being accepted as recruits for the Army; and whether lads of this age are entitled to be released from the Army if their parents make application for their release and prove that their age is as stated above?
 Mr. CHURCHILL
The consent of the parents or guardian is required to the enlistment into the Army of any recruit under eighteen years of age. The Recruiting Regulations order that, whenever there is any ground for suspicion that a recruit is under the age mentioned, full inquiries are to be made before enlistment is approved, and the attention of recruiting officers has recently been drawn particularly to this Regulation. The reply to the latter part of the question is in the affirmative as regards lads under seventeen years of age. The discharge of soldiers over seventeen years of age who have mis-stated their age on enlistment is only authorised as a concession under certain circumstances. I would also refer the hon. Member to my replies to the hon. Members for Wigan and Springburn on the 10th and 10th November respectively.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 18, 2016, 10:48:44 PM
UNDER-AGE RECRUITS.

HC Deb 10 November 1919 vol 121 cc62-3W 62W
 Mr. J. A. PARKINSON
asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware that Private James Hurst, No. 77903, E Company, 19th Platoon, 1st Battalion, Manchester Regiment, Room 44, Salamanca Barracks, Aldershot, was not eighteen years of age when he enlisted on 1st August, 1919; that he only attained seventeen years of age on 28th December, 1918, and that a letter was sent to the War Office on behalf of the parents, and a reply received advising the parents to communicate with the headquarters. Preston, which they did, and sent his birth certificate with the letter, to which communication no reply has been received; is he aware that the father is in failing health, and there is also a mother along with a son aged twenty-two years, an imbecile, and a girl at school, Private Hurst being the main support of the home; and whether he will issue instructions for his early discharge from the Army, and also issue instructions that youths must not be enlisted unless they prove that they are eighteen years of age?
 Mr. CHURCHILL
The discharge of a soldier under eighteen years of age who mis-states his age on enlistment is only sanctioned in certain circumstances and as a concession. As regards the last part of the hon. Member's question, instructions on the point are contained in Recruiting Regulations, and special instructions on the subject have been issued on two 63W occasions recently. Every possible precaution is taken to avoid enlisting men under eighteen years of age, and I shall be happy to consider any suggestions for improving the system. The production of birth certificates by all recruits is impracticable. I am inquiring into the particular case mentioned, and will acquaint the hon. Member of the result as soon as possible.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 18, 2016, 10:51:14 PM
LIEUTENANT DANKS, MANCHESTER REGIMENT.

HC Deb 30 July 1900 vol 87 cc19-20 19
 MR. BAINBRIDGE (Lincolnshire, Gainsborough)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that Lieutenant Danks, of the Manchester Regiment, was mentioned in despatches relating to the battle of Elandslaagte on 21st October, 1899, and that those despatches were not published in the Gazette prior to his death, on 31st May, 1900, from the effect of wounds received in that engagement; and, in the case of such a death in a military hospital 20 in England, will he state whose duty it is to inform the relatives of the fact; and is it usual to send any intimation of regret from the War Office.
 *MR. WYNDHAM
Lieutenant Danks was not mentioned in despatches. His, parents were present at his death, and therefore it was not necessary to send any notification. The person responsible for notifying the death of an officer dying in a military hospital at home is the officer commanding the unit to which the officer was attached on being sent home.
 MR. SWIFT MACNEILL (Donegal, S.)
Was not this gentleman mentioned in the report furnished by his colonel?
 [No answer was given.]

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 18, 2016, 10:52:17 PM
Hulme Barracks, Manchester.
HC Deb 24 March 1911 vol 23 cc866-7W 866W
 Mr. NEEDHAM
asked the Secretary of State for War whether Hulme Barracks, situated in South-West Manchester, are to be abandoned for use by the Regular Army; if so, when they will be vacated; whether he can say if they are to be afterwards 867W used for the Territorial Army; and, if so, whether the whole of the site now occupied will be so used, or whether any of it will be available for other purposes?
 Mr. HALDANE
There is no present intention of giving up Hulme Barracks, which are now in occupation. A portion of the barracks is not required for Regular troops, and it is in contemplation to make it available for Territorial units.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 18, 2016, 10:53:14 PM

BRIGADIER-GENERAL CROZIER.

HC Deb 31 May 1921 vol 142 cc802-4 
12. Lieut.-Colonel GUINNESS
asked the Secretary of State for War if he will give the personal record of service in the Army of Brigadier-General Crozier, lately commanding the Auxiliary Division, Royal Irish Constabulary?
The SECRETARY of STATE for WAR (Sir Laming Worthington-Evans)
As the answer to this question is of a detailed nature I will, with my hon. and gallant Friend's permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.
Captain W. BENN
Is the right hon. Gentleman willing to give the personal record of any other officer whose name is put down on the Question Paper?
Sir L. WORTHINGTON-EVANS
If a question be asked, I will answer it.
 Lieut.-Colonel Sir S. HOAR
Was the personal record given to the Government of Ireland when General Crozier was appointed?
Sir L. WORTHINGTON-EVANS
I believe that the official record was given, but I am not absolutely sure.
Lieut.-Colonel GUINNESS
Will the right hon. Gentleman take steps to insure that when the Irish Office consults him as to the suitability of officers for police employment he will give them not only the official record but also the personal record of the officers concerned
Sir L. WORTHINGTON-EVANS
I can give the official record. That is all I can give. I cannot give personal records. It would be impossible for a Minister to give personal records which are complete and reliable. All I can pretend to do is to give the official records.

Captain BENN
Was the information which the right hon. Gentleman is going to give this House in his possession when he recommended General Crozier to this appointment?
Sir L. WORTHINGTON-EVANS
I did not recommend him. The official record, of course, was in the possession of the War Office and that is all I am giving. I am not giving any personal record. I am giving an official record.
Lieut.-Colonel GUINNESS
Is the whole of the trouble not due to the division of responsibility between the Adjutant-General and the Director of Personal Services? Will the right hon. Gentleman see that in future appointments, where the personal suitability of a man apart from War service is most important, the Director of Personal Services is consulted?
Sir L. WORTHINGTON-EVANS
I think that is rather a matter for argument. As far as the facts are concerned I am giving the official record, and of course I give the official record whenever I am asked for it in respect of an officer who is about to be employed.
 The following is the answer referred to:
 The official record of the services in the Army of Brigadier-General F. P. Crozier is as follows:—
 Born, 9th January, 1879.
 Served as Lieutenant in 4th Battalion, Middlesex Rifle Volunteers, 1896.
Served as Lieutenant in Militia, 1897, and as a corporal in Thornycroft's Mounted Infantry in the South African War.
 Obtained a commission as 2nd Lieutenant in the Manchester Regiment (from ranks of Local Military Forces, Natal), 19th May, 1900.
 Lieutenant, Manchester Regiment, 13th July, 1901.
 Employed with West African Frontier Force from 3rd June, 1901, to 17th September, 1905.
 To half-pay, 31st March, 1908.
 Resigned commission, 17th June, 1908.
 Commissioned as Captain, 3rd Battalion, Loyal North Lancashire Regiment, 17th June, 1908.
 Resigned commission, 22nd May, 1909.
 War, 1914–1919.
 Commissioned Temporary Captain, Service Battalions, September, 1914.
 9th Service Battalion (West Belfast), Royal Irish Rifles.
 Temporary Major, Second in Command, 4th September, 1914.
 Temporary Lieutenant-Colonel whilst Commanding Battalion, 8th January, 1916.
 Temporary Brigadier - General, General List, 20th November, 1916.
 Commander, 119th Infantry Brigade.
 Relinquished appointment and temporary rank of Brigadier-General, 15th April, 1919.
 Lieut.-Colonel F. P. Crozier, temporary to Command 3rd Reserve Battalion, Welsh Regiment, 24th April, 1919.
 Ceased to Command 3rd Reserve Battalion, Welsh Regiment, 22nd July, 1919.
 Relinquished Commission and granted honorary rank of Brigadier-General, 31st July, 1919.
 Unofficial. — Attached Lithuanian Delegation, Paris. General Major Lithuanian Forces.
 War Services.
 South African War, 1899–1901.—Relief of Ladysmith, including action at Colenso; operations of 17th to 24th January, 1900, and action at Spion Kop; operations of 5th to 7th February and action at Vaal Kranz; operations on Tugela Heights (14th to 27th February). Operations in Natal, March to June, 1900, including action at Laing's Nek (6th to 9th June). Operations in Orange River Colony, May to 28th November, 1900, including actions at Wittebergen (1st to 29th July), and Caledon River (27th to 29th July).
 Operations in the Transvaal and Orange River Colony, 30th November to December, 1900.
 Operations in Cape Colony, December, 1900, to January, 1901. Queen's Medal with seven clasps.
 West Africa (Northern Nigeria), 1903.—Kano-Sokoto Campaign. Medal with clasp. Sokoto-Burmi operations.
The War of 1914–19.—Despatches "London Gazette," 4th January, 1917; 15th May, 1917; 11th December, 1917; 20th May, 1918; 20th December, 1918; and 5th July, 1919. French War Cross, C.B., C.M.G., D.S.O.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 18, 2016, 10:54:58 PM
Reservists of Disbanded Battalions.
HC Deb 30 July 1906 vol 162 c444

 SIR CARNE RASCH(Essex, Chelmsford.)
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he can state approximately the number of reservists connected with the battalions which he proposes to disband.
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. HALDANE,) Haddington.
Reservists are not ear-marked as coming from and belonging to any one battalion of a regiment, but are available for the regiment as a whole. The number of reservists of the regiments concerned are as follows:—Northumberland Fusiliers 1,364, Royal Warwickshire Regiment 1,534, Lancashire Fusiliers 1,449, Manchester Regiment 1,169.
 SIR CARNE RASCH
Will all the reservists of the disbanded battalions be treated in the same way as of those not disbanded?
 MR. HALDANE
Yes.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 18, 2016, 10:55:34 PM
MANCHESTER REGIMENT (2ND VOLUNTEER BATTALION).

HC Deb 08 March 1897 vol 47 cc191-2 191
 MR. J. W. MACLURE (Lancashire, Stretford)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War when it is intended to appoint the new Adjutant for the 2nd Volunteer Battalion of the, Manchester Regiment?
 THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. BRODRICK,) Surrey, Guildford
The appointment will be made as soon as a suitable candidate can be found. No officer in the territorial regiment is available at this moment.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 18, 2016, 10:56:19 PM
MANCHESTER REGIMENT.

HC Deb 23 July 1915 vol 73 cc1816-7W

Mr. NEEDHAM
asked the Under-Secretary for War whether he can furnish information as to the condition of the men of the l/7th Battalion Manchester Regiment who are reported missing; and whether he has made use or will make use of the good offices of the American Ambassador to obtain full information in regard to each of the men who may be prisoners in the hands of the Turks, and thus allay the anxiety of their relatives who, up to the present, have been unable to obtain information?
 Mr. TENNANT
I have no additional information regarding the men of this battalion. The American Ambassador has been asked to make renewed application to the Turkish Government for full lists of prisoners.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 19, 2016, 07:28:17 PM
DISCHARGED AS MEDICALLY UNFIT.

HC Deb 08 March 1917 vol 91 c581W 581W

 Mr. KING
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that Private F. W. Allison, No. 17542, 20th Battalion Manchester Regiment, joined the forces on 17th November, 1914, and was discharged as medically unfit on 17th December, 1914, receiving Army Form B.2079, and that Allison is now being pressed again into the Army; whether the holding of Army Form B 2079 excepts the holder from liability to further service; and whether he will give orders that Allison is not to be called up?
 Mr. MACPHERSON
Inquiries are being made, and the hon. Member will be informed of the result.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 19, 2016, 07:29:22 PM
pte 17642 frederick,william allison
20th manchesters
C.coy
enl 17-11-14 at manchester town hall
aged 27
warehouseman
discharged 17-12-14[with tuburculosis]
75 mytton st,hulme
parents charles+emily

mack  ;D
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 19, 2016, 07:30:37 PM
MANCHESTER REGIMENT (DANIEL DEAN).

HC Deb 11 February 1926 vol 191 c1201 1201

 2. Sir JOSEPH NALL
asked the Minister of Pensions if he has inquired into the circumstances under which Daniel Dean, No. 4/2,848, Manchester Regiment, Pensions Reference 3 M.D. 4,645, came to leave hospital on Thursday, 28th January, and died at home on Sunday, 31st January; whether the deceased was in receipt of a disability pension at the date of his death, and what was the cause of the delay in awarding a pension which resulted in him being dependent upon the Poor Law for two years; and what provision is now being made for his widow?
 The MINISTER of PENSIONS (Major Tryon)
I find that the man referred to left the hospital of his own accord and contrary to advice, stating that he wished to go home, and that he had no complaint against the hospital. He was in receipt of a disability pension at the date of his death, this pension having been awarded on a claim made by him in March of last year. The Ministry had no knowledge of Dean's condition for some years prior to the making of his, claim, no application having been received from him during the period. With regard to the widow, a claim is, I understand, being made and will receive immediate consideration as soon as it is received.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 19, 2016, 07:31:45 PM
MANCHESTER REGIMENT (REPAYMENTS).

HC Deb 06 August 1940 vol 364 c19 19

 38. Mr. Burke
asked the Secretary of State for War why non-commissioned officers of the Manchester Regiment, who were derated solely because Regular Army non-commissioned officers were drafted to the battalion, are having to pay back from their present privates' pay money which was paid them for acting as non-commissioned officers?
 Mr. Eden
I have ascertained that, in four of the five cases concerned, the soldiers have now been granted war substantive rank which cancels the over-issues. The fifth case is still the subject of inquiry, but I have given instructions that no recovery is to be made.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 19, 2016, 07:32:33 PM
THE MANCHESTER REGIMENT AND THE LIMERICK MAGISTRATES.

 Deb 08 June 1893 vol 13 cc515-6 515

MR. O'KEEFFE (Limerick) I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War if his attention has been directed to a resolution passed on Friday last at Petty Sessions by the Magistrates of the City of Limerick, requesting the Commander of the Forces in Ireland to remove the Manchester Regiment from that city, and to send a better conducted corps to that garrison; and whether this request will be acceded to?

 THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN,) Stirling, &c. I understand that a resolution, which has not yet been received, to the effect stated in the question, was passed by three of the Limerick Magistrates, a fourth Magistrate who was 516 present on the Bench taking no part. Five men of this regiment have recently been convicted of larceny. But the police report that there has been no general misconduct on the part of the battalion, and that there is no bad feeling between the troops and the townspeople. The Commander of the Forces in Ireland sees no immediate reason for removing the 1st Manchester Regiment from Limerick.

 MR. THEOBALD (Essex, Romford) And how many of the three Magistrates wore appointed by the present Government?

 MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN As to that I know nothing.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 19, 2016, 07:33:16 PM
Camp, Salisbury Plain (Conditions)

HC Deb 22 November 1955 vol 546 cc1251-3 1251

 33 and 34. Mr. Hale
asked the Secretary of State for War (1) whether he is aware that the 9th Battalion, Manchester Regiment, served from 20th August to 3rd September at Windmill Hill Camp, Salisbury Plain, with inadequate food, unhealthy 1252 accommodation, and with insect-infested bedding; and what steps he proposes to take to prevent a recurrence of such conditions;
(2) if he will take disciplinary action against the officer or officers in charge of the conditions of camp, tents, bedding and catering arrangements at Windmill Camp, Salisbury, prior to the arrival of the 9th Battalion Manchester Regiment in view of the proved inadequacy of the arrangements.
 Mr. Head
I am not satisfied about conditions in this camp. General Erskine has been carefully into the matter and is determined to see that they will not recur.
 Mr. Hale
Is the Minister aware that he wrote to me and said that the complaints were exaggerated? I hope that I report him correctly, but it was certainly to that effect. Does he know that I have made inquiries of two other Oldham soldiers who served at that camp, and that they told me that the conditions were absolutely deplorable; that the blankets came out of earth and muck and straw, and that the men had only a blanket to sleep on on unprotected canvas as a result? One of them said that they were conditions in which he would not put a dog—[HON. MEMBERS: "Speech."] Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, may I call your attention to the fact that the Secretary of State for War sought leave of the House to answer two Questions together, and may I add that if I am to be barracked when I put a supplementary question to two Questions—
 Mr. Speaker
Order. In listening to the hon. Member I took into consideration the fact that an Answer was given to two Questions. I thought the hon. Member had, perhaps, exceeded the limits of a supplementary question to one Question, and that he was just on the point of exceeding the limit to two. I do not think there is anything to complain about in the remarks from the rest of the House.
 Mr. Hale
Is the right hon. Gentleman further aware that disciplinary action has been taken against one of the officers who told the Press that conditions were bad, and can he say what laws apply to that officer that do not apply to the ordinary soldier?

 Mr. Head
This is absolutely the first I have heard of any disciplinary action. I hope that the hon. Member will let me have any names and particulars that he has. It is certainly against my principles that that sort of thing should be done in the Army. As far as the camp is concerned, there are two aspects. First, I have admitted that the camp was not all that we would have wished it to be but, given rations and canvas, the success of a camp to a large extent depends on the unit, the commanding officer and the company commanders. I do not say that my Department is blameless in this case, but I think that the situation was made worse by certain members of these units not being administered very competently.
 Mr. Strachey
Would not the Minister agree that, in any circumstances, for blankets to be lousy—which is apparently admitted—is a disgraceful position to arise in an Army camp in peace-time?
 Mr. Head
That matter was gone into by General Erskine. I am informed that in the blankets there were a lot of what are called May bugs and that the bites were attributable to them and not to lice. No one actually found a louse, or produced one.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 19, 2016, 07:33:51 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)




TIPPERARY BARRACKS.

HC Deb 01 June 1893 vol 12 c1759 1759
 
MR. FIELD
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether it is the intention of the Government to supply the vacancy now existing in the barracks at Tipperary, which has been empty almost since the removal of the 1st Battalion of the East Surrey to Malta last February; and whether it is intended to have a regiment sent early in June, as the traders are anxious to have the military in the place?
 *MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN
It is proposed to move the 1st Battalion Seaforth Highlanders from Fermoy to Tipperary in the summer. There are three companies of Infantry at Tipperary —namely, one Company of the 1st Battalion Manchester Regiment, and two of the 1st Battalion Seaforth Highlanders.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 19, 2016, 07:34:33 PM
Drafts for India.

HC Deb 30 June 1904 vol 137 cc153-4 153

 CAPTAIN NORTON (Newington, W.)
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War if he can state the regiments, 154 batteries, and battalions proceeding to India during the next trooping season, also those regiments, batteries, and battalions which will be called upon to furnish drafts.
* THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. ARNOLD-FORSTER,) Belfast, W.
The following regiments, batteries, and battalions will proceed to India during the next trooping season:—
•   13th Hussars.
•   19th, 20th, and 28th batteries of Field Artillery.
•   62nd, 64th, 77th, and 81st Companies of Garrison Artillery.
•   2nd battalion Royal Fusiliers.
•   2nd battalion Cheshire Regiment.
•   1st battalion Royal Irish Regiment.
•   1st battalion Highland Light Infantry.
•   1st battalion Manchester Regiment.
As regards drafts every regiment, battery, and battalion in India or the Colonies will require them during the next trooping season, and in the case of cavalry and artillery the drafts will be found from their groups, and in the case of infantry from their linked battalions.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on August 19, 2016, 07:35:32 PM

Soldiers in Hospital.

HC Deb 06 July 1905 vol 148 cc1321-2 1321
 
 COLONEL DENNY (Kilmarnock Burghs)
To ask the Secretary of State for: War what percentage of total strength of such of the battalions serving at home 1322 of the following regiments were in hospital during the year 1904: Royal Scots, Royal Highlanders, Manchester Regiment, Devonshire Regiment, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Royal Irish Rifles. Royal Munster Fusiliers, and of the List Grenadier Guards, 1st Scots Guards, 1st Coldstream Guards, and Irish Guards.
(Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.) The required information is follows:—
 
Regiment.   Percentage of constantly sick.
1st Battalion Grenadier Guards   9.12
1st Battalion Coldstream Guards   3.96
1st Battalion Scots Guards   4.02
Irish Guards   5.09
1st Battalion Royal Scots   4.09
2nd Battalion Devonshire Regiment   2.62
1st Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers   1.98
1st Battalion Royal High landers   2.96
2nd Battalion Manchester Regiment   1.94
4th Battalion Manchester Regiment   3.06
2nd Battalion Royal Irish Rifles   4.21
2nd Battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers   â€ 1.41

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on February 05, 2017, 01:37:20 PM
GRATUITY (7TH MANCHESTER REGIMENT, D. COULSON).

HC Deb 24 March 1922 vol 152 c826W 826W

 Lieut.-Colonel HURST
asked the Minister of Pensions when the final gratuity of £70, promised on the 7th February by the regional director, Manchester (3/MC/3956), to D. Coulson, late 7th Manchester Regiment, of 213, Platt Lane, Wilbraham Road Estate, Fallow-field, will be paid; and whether he can expedite payment.
 Major TRYON
Payment has been authorised. I regret the delay, the circumstances regarding which I am communicating to my hon. and gallant Friend.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on February 05, 2017, 01:38:10 PM
TERRITORIAL ARMY (STRENGTH, LANCASHIRE).

HC Deb 12 May 1931 vol 252 cc1002-3W 1003W

 Mr. RAMSBOTHAM
asked the Secretary of State for War the present strength of the different territorial battalions in Lancashire with, in each case, any deficiency in strength?
Battalion.   Strength on 1st May, 1931.   Surplus or deficit on Establishment on 1st May, 1931.

      Officers.   Other Ranks.   Total.   Officers.   Other Ranks.   Total.
4th King's Own Royal Regiment   â€¦   23   504   527   + 3   - 80   - 77
5th King's Own Royal Regiment   â€¦   14   336   350   - 6   - 248   - 254
5th King's Regiment   â€¦   19   439   458   - 1   - 145   - 146
6th King's Regiment   â€¦   17   411   428   - 3   - 173   - 176
7th King's Regiment   â€¦   17   508   525   - 3   - 76   - 79
10th King's Regiment   â€¦   19   596   615   - 1   + 8   + 7
4th Prince of Wales' Volunteers   â€¦   15   492   507   - 5   - 92   - 97
5th Prince of Wales' Volunteers   â€¦   16   469   485   - 4   - 115   - 119
4th Loyal Regiment   â€¦   17   512   529   - 3   - 72   - 75
5th Loyal Regiment   â€¦   19   468   487   - 1   - 116   - 117
5th Lancashire Fusiliers   â€¦   19   504   523   - 1   - 80   - 81
6th Lancashire Fusiliers   â€¦   19   570   589   - 1   - 14   - 15
7th Lancashire Fusiliers   â€¦   17   520   537   - 3   - 64   - 67
8th Lancashire Fusiliers   â€¦   18   560   578   - 2   - 24   - 26
4th/5th East Lancashire Regiment   â€¦   16   547   568   - 4   - 37   - 41
5th Manchester Regiment   â€¦   18   506   524   - 2   - 78   - 80
6th/7th Manchester Regiment   â€¦   13   583   596   - 7   - 1   - 8
8th Manchester Regiment   â€¦   18   591   609   - 2   + 7   + 5
9th Manchester Regiment   â€¦   19   585   604   - 1   + 1   â€”
10th Manchester Regiment   â€¦   20   581   601   â€”   - 3   - 3
TOTALS   â€¦   353   10,282   10,635   - 47   - 1,402   - 1,449


© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on February 05, 2017, 01:38:44 PM
APPLICATION FOR RELEASE (SERGEANT H. A. BLACKMORE, MANCHESTER REGIMENT).

HC Deb 10 August 1920 vol 133 cc238-9W 238W

 Lieut.-Colonel HURST
asked the Secretary of State for War upon what grounds Sergeant H. A. Blackmore, 5th (R) Battalion Manchester Regiment, lecturer in chemistry and dyes, the Laboratory, Thornhill, Aldershot, is retained in the service; and when will he be demobilised?
 
 Mr. CHURCHILL
Educational personnel serving on a temporary basis are not retained in the service against their will; their demobilisation can be carried out forthwith if they so desire. I am not aware of the grounds on which Sergeant Blackmore is being retained, but enquiries are being made and I will inform the hon. and gallant Member of the result.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on February 05, 2017, 02:05:48 PM
Volunteer Reduction.

HC Deb 11 February 1908 vol 183 cc1523-4 1523

 SIR FRANCIS POWELL (Wigan)
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War if it be intended to reduce the number of men serving in the First Volunteer Battalion, Manchester Regiment, of which the headquarters are in Wigan.

 MR. A. WILLIAMSON (Elgin and Nairn)
I beg also to ask the Secretary of State for War if the Territorial Army scheme involved a reduction in the number of Volunteers in the counties of Moray and Nairn to about one-half; if he has received memorials from the county council of Morayshire and from the town councils of Elgin and Forres petitioning against the proposed reduction; and if, in view of any such petitions and of the strong feeling which has been aroused, and having in view the record and services of the 3rd Volunteer Battalion Seaforth Highlanders, he can now see his way to sanction the allocation of a battalion of the Territorial Army to the counties named.

 MR. HALDANE
The quota of troops which each county is to be asked to raise has not yet been finally settled. A scheme based partly upon population and partly upon units already existing has already been communicated to County Associations. They have been asked to consider this scheme and confer with the General Officers Commanding of their respective commands upon it. Until the reports of these conferences and the recommendations made at them have been considered by the Army Council and received its approval, it is impossible to say how far existing units will be affected by the new scheme, and I cannot therefore, reply to the specific points the hon. Gentleman raises. As regards the Question of the hon. Member for Elgin and Nairn, memorials have been received from the county council of Elgin and from the Elgin Town Council.
 
 MR. A. WILLIAMSON
In the event of its being impossible to allocate a whole battalion to the county, will the right hon. Gentleman consider the possibility of allocating to it some other branch of the service so that the services of a large number of Volunteers may not be lost to the county?

 SIR FRANCIS POWELL
When will the right hon. Gentleman be able to answer my Question?

 MR. HALDANE
When we have got the Report of the General Officer Commanding, which I hope will be very shortly, the Army Council will be able to consider the matter. We are doing our best to avail ourselves of the services of Volunteers, but, of course, military circumstances may preclude our taking advantage of the offer

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on February 05, 2017, 02:06:39 PM
52ND BATTALION MANCHESTER REGIMENT.

HC Deb 20 November 1919 vol 121 cc1157-8W 1157W

Captain A. SMITH
asked the Secretary of State for War whether the 52nd Battalion Manchester Regiment, now stationed at Bonn, in Germany, is proceeding to Dantzig; and, if so, for what purpose?

 Mr. CHURCHILL
The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. As regards the second part, I would refer the hon. and gallant Member to the answer which I gave on Tuesday last to the hon. and gallant Member for Central Hull.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on February 05, 2017, 02:07:23 PM
MANCHESTER REGIMENT.

HC Deb 16 May 1916 vol 82 c1334 1334

 12. Sir FREDERICK CAWLEY
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War how many deaths have taken place in the Reserve Manchester Regiment since they left Southport on 19th April for their present camp at Altcar, and the cause of same?

 Mr. TENNANT
I have called for information.


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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on February 05, 2017, 02:08:01 PM
Dunham Park, Altrincham

HC Deb 06 December 1948 vol 459 c12W 12W

 81. Mr. Erroll
asked the Secretary of State for War when, in view of the return of the Manchester Regiment to Ashton-under-Lyne, the military camp at Dunham Park, Altrincham, will be made available to the people of Altrincham for the provision of urgently-needed housing accommodation.
 Mr. M. Stewart
This camp may be required until 1952. I am, however, aware of the present needs of the local authorities and proposals to meet these needs are under urgent consideration.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on February 05, 2017, 02:08:42 PM
MOTOR LORRIES, MONS.

HC Deb 03 June 1919 vol 116 cc1805-6 1805

 Sir WILLIAM DAVISON
asked the Secretary for War whether some thousands of motor lorries have been parked in the open at Mons for many months; whether such lorries have seriously deteriorated by reason of exposure to the weather as well as theft of certain of their parts; and what steps he proposes to take to prevent further deterioration of national property?
 Mr. CHURCHILL
I understand that lorries have been parked in the open throughout the War, and I have no reason to think that serious deterioration results at Mons, any more than at other reception parks. I have no knowledge of the theft of parts to which my hon. Friend refers, but if he can give me further particulars I will have inquiry made.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on February 05, 2017, 02:09:44 PM
SOLDIERS' GRAVES (INSCRIPTIONS).

HC Deb 03 June 1919 vol 116 c1806 1806

 Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY
asked the Secretary of State for War if the next-of-kin of soldiers buried in France and Flanders will be given the option of choosing a few words for the inscription on the monument marking their graves when new monuments are being set up?
 Mr. CHURCHILL
Yes, Sir, the Imperial War Graves Commission have arranged for inscriptions chosen by the next-of-kin to be engraved on the headstones at a cost of about 3½d. a letter, whenever desired.
 Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY
Will this be made public, as there are a lot of inquiries in the country?
 Mr. CHURCHILL
It will be made public by an answer to a question in this House.

© Parliamentary copyright

3 1/2d in new money is about 1 1/2 new pence

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on February 05, 2017, 03:29:13 PM
SECOND-LIEUTENANT J. R. FOX (DEATH).

HC Deb 02 June 1919 vol 116 c1704W 1704W

 Major NALL
asked the Under-Secretary of State to the Air Ministry why Second-Lieutenant J. B. Fox, Royal Air Force, has not been officially reported killed, although ample evidence is available that he died from wounds on]9th August, 1918, at Ingweiler, and was buried in the Ingweiler Cemetery?
 Major-General SEELY
The question doubtless refers to Second-Lieutenant J. R. Fox, 10th Manchester Regiment, and Royal Air Force, who was reported missing on 16th August, 1918. This officer's death has been accepted for official purposes as having occurred on or since 16.8.18, and a letter to that effect. was sent to the next of kin on 30.4.19.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:37:30 PM
MANCHESTER REGIMENT (DECEASED SOLDIER'S ACCOUNT).

HC Deb 30 March 1922 vol 152 cc1563-4W 1563W

 Lieut.-Colonel HURST
asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether, in the ease of a lance-sergeant in the 2nd Battalion Manchester Regiment, reported missing in Iraq on the 24th July, 1920 (reference E/795132/1, Accounts 4), his next-of-kin are entitled to pay down to that date, or to the date when the War Office presumed his death, namely, the 18th January, 1921?
Sir. L. WORTHINGTON-EVANS
Pay ceases to be credited to a soldier after the date on which he is reported missing unless later evidence is forthcoming that he was alive after that date. In the absence of such evidence the soldier is presumed to have died on the date on which he was reported missing, and no further pay is credited to him. The lance-sergeant referred to was reported1564W missing from the 24th July, 1920. No further news of him was received. He was therefore presumed to have died on the 24th July, 1920, and pay is issuable only to that date.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:38:13 PM
THE IST MANCHESTER REGIMENT AT TIPPERARY.

HC Deb 26 February 1891 vol 350 cc1705-7 1705

 MR. J. O'CONNOR (Tipperary, S.)
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he has received affidavits from John A. Drew, shopkeeper, Tipperary, John Tohy, and Henry John 1706 Lutman, declaring that on the evening of the 4th instant two private soldiers of the 1st Manchester Regiment, stationed at Tipperary, were ordered out of the house of John A. Drew by Sergeant O'Brien, and when at the door were placed under arrest and deprived of their belts by him; whether their offence was against a Regimental Order placing Mr. Carew's house "out of bounds;" has Mr. Carew's house been a well-conducted house, or have any charges ever been made against him for having broken the Licensing Law or any other law; and what is the reason for the above-mentioned Regimental Order?
 THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY TO THE WAR OFFICE (Mr. BRODRICK, Surrey, Guildford)
The Secretary of State has received the affidavits referred to. The offence of the men was against a Regimental Order placing Mr. Carew's house out of bounds, but the officer commanding states that they were not arrested, but were marched away with the picket to avoid a crowd of civilians. As already stated, the Secretary of State has no knowledge as to the conduct by Mr. Carew of his house; and, as the matter is one of military discipline, he again declines to call for explanation of an order which the officer commanding was fully competent in his discretion to make.
 MR. J. O'CONNOR
I wish to know whether a similar order has been given in the case of any other public house in Tipperary; and, if not, why the house of Mr. Carew has been singled out? I also desire to know whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that prosecutions have been entered into against persons for the offence known as boycotting in Tipperary?
 MR. BRODRICK
I am not aware that any person or persons have been picked out in the way suggested by the hon. Member, and I cannot tell the hon. Member whether any other houses have been dealt with in the same manner, but if he desires I will inquire.
 MR. J. O'CONNOR
I will put a further question on the Paper, and I will ask the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary if he will be good enough to take the answer of the hon. Gentleman the Financial Secretary for War as a ground for putting the provisions of 1707 the Coercion Act into force against the colonel commanding this regiment, who has boycotted the house of Mr. Carew.



© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:38:44 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)


ALLEGED ILLEGAL ARREST.

HC Deb 15 April 1889 vol 335 c480 480

 MR. JOHN O'CONNOR (Tipperary, S.)
asked the Secretary of State for War if he was aware that Private J. Smith, Manchester Regiment, was, on the 10th of March last, induced by Sergeant Griffin, Royal Irish Constabulary, to go to the entrance of the police barrack at Bansha, and that, without having committed or being charged with any offence, he was forced into the police barrack, knocked down by Sergeant Griffin, and forcibly prevented by him and Constable Spillane from leaving the barrack; and, if Private Smith has since been sentenced by Court-Martial to imprisonment with hard labour for nine months in respect to the above occurrence?
 THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. E. STANHOPE,) Lincolnshire, Horncastle
It is true that the private, smith, was sentenced by a Court-Martial to nine months' imprisonment in respect of the occurrences mentioned in the question; but on the evidence coming before the Judge Advocate General, he upon the 6th of this month quashed the conviction.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:39:50 PM
Title: Re: snippets of Manchester Regiment articles
Post by: harribobs on January 23, 2009, 02:26:43 PM
________________________________________
Quote from: timberman on January 23, 2009, 02:03:10 PM
SOLDIERS' GRAVES (INSCRIPTIONS).

3 1/2d in new money is  ??? ??? ??? about 1 1/2 new pence

Timberman

not if you factor in inflation for the last 90 years!!
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:40:33 PM
MANCHESTER POST OFFICE VOLUNTEERS.

HC Deb 28 May 1900 vol 83 c1494 1494

 MR. SCHWANN (Manchester, N.)
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether employees of the Manchester Post Office, who are also Volunteers, have been refused fourteen days leave to attend camp at Whitsuntide (although they offered to forfeit their wages and regular holidays), and, further, are even denied their customary seven days leave for attendance in camp; and whether arrangements could be made so that the Government offices should set an example to private employers of giving opportunities to Volunteers for attending camp.
 MR. HANBURY
Every effort consistent with the exigencies of the service will be made to allow Post Office employees at Manchester who are Volunteers to attend camp; but as there are 107 members of the Manchester staff now serving in South Africa, and as Whitsuntide is one of the busiest seasons in the year for local telegraph work, it would not be possible to allow all the Volunteers, numbering over 100, to be absent at that season. The annual leave arrangements have not been disturbed, and anyone whose holidays were fixed for Whitsuntide will be able to take them.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:41:01 PM
MILITIA—FURLOUGHS IN AGRICULTURAL COUNTIES.

HC Deb 28 May 1900 vol 83 cc1494-5 1494

 MR. JEFFREYS (Hampshire, N.)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the scarcity of agricultural labourers in the country 1495 districts, he will arrange that furloughs to non-commissioned officers and men of Militia battalions belonging to agricultural counties shall be granted during the months of June, July, and August, instead of during the winter, to enable farmers to gather in their harvest.
 MR. WYNDHAM
Military considerations are, of course, paramount; but every effort will be made to enable the men to have furlough during harvest-time.


© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:41:29 PM
MILITIA—FAMILY ALLOTMENTS. HOME AND FOREIGN SERVICE.

HC Deb 28 May 1900 vol 83 c1495 1495

 MR. YERBURGH (Chester)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War, seeing that a Militiaman when on active service or garrison duty abroad is obliged to make an allotment from his pay to his wife and children, but when called up for service and doing garrison duty in the British Isles is under no such obligation, whether he can say what reason there is for the different treatment in the two eases, and whether, as relief funds are in consequence called upon to contribute more to the support of the family of a Militiaman serving at home than to the family of a Militiaman serving abroad, the Militia when on service at home may be brought under the Allotment Order; and whether he can make arrangements to enable Militiamen desirous of doing so to make allotments in favour of their widowed mothers.
 MR. WYNDHAM
The system of allotments was established to meet the difficulty a soldier would otherwise experience in forwarding money to his family from abroad. At home the same difficulty does not arise. If, however, a soldier fails to remit money, his wife can, under the Army Act, obtain a compulsory stoppage from his pay. There is no reason to believe that such a measure of compulsion is generally necessary. The Militiaman abroad can allot a portion of his pay to his father or mother.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:41:57 PM
WORCESTERSHIRE AND MANCHESTER REGIMENTS.

HC Deb 20 March 1900 vol 80 c1308 1308

 GENERAL LAURIE (Pembroke and Haverfordwest)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War where the third and fourth battalions respectively of the Worcestershire and Manchester Regiments were raised; where they are now stationed; what is the strength of each battalion; what number of men in each battalion are effective soldiers, and of age and physique for foreign service; and whether there are any, and if so what, number in each battalion of non-effectives left behind when the first and second battalions went on active service.
 MR. WYNDHAM
The battalions referred to are at Aldershot. Their formation has only just begun, and they probably do not yet number 100 men apiece. If my hon. and gallant friend will repeat his question later in the session I shall be happy to tell him what progress has been made.


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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:42:26 PM
MAGAZINE RIFLES.

HC Deb 20 March 1900 vol 80 cc1306-7 1306

 MR. HEDDERWICK (Wick Burghs)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War the reasons inducing the War Office to prefer arrangements for loading in connection with the service rifle which necessitate the refilling of the magazine by the insertion of a single cartridge at a time to arrangements which enable the whole magazine to be recharged by a single movement of the hand, as in the case of the rifle in use by the Boers.

 MR. WYNDHAM
The present magazine rifle was adopted into the service on the recommendation of a special Small Arms Committee after trials had been carried out with all available magazine rifles. It would be impossible within the limits of an answer to recapitulate the reasons which led to the decision arrived at.


© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:42:55 PM
HOSPITAL STORES—TENDERS FOR WINES.

HC Deb 20 March 1900 vol 80 cc1305-6 1305

 MR. LODER (Brighton)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether wines are included among the hospital stores sent to South Africa; and whether tenders are invited for these wines; if so, whether tenders for Cape wines as well as foreign wines are called for.
 MR. WYNDHAM
Champagne and port are sent for hospital use. Tenders are invited for them. Tenders for Cape   wines are not called for, but if any should be required by the medical officers purchase could be made on the spot.

© Parliamentary copyright

Wonder if the Champagne and port where for the Soldiers ;D

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:43:23 PM
Ashton-under-Lyne Barracks—Cost of Construction and Repairs.

HC Deb 25 March 1903 vol 120 c168 168
 
 MR. HERBERT WH1TELEY (Ashton-under-Lyne)
To ask the Secretary of State for War if he can state the original cost of the Ashton-under-Lyne Barracks; the amount spent in alterations, additions, and repairs to them during the last ten years; and the number of men recruited in the Ashton-under-Lyne district during the same period.
(Answered by Mr. Secretary Brodrick.) The original cost of the barracks at Ashton-under-Lyne was £45,077; the amount spent on subsequent alterations, additions, and maintenance in the last ten years was £5,754. The average take of recruits for the last ten years in the 63rd Regimental District, of which Ashton-under-Lyne is the headquarters, for the Regular Forces and Militia amounted to 1,373 and 1,973 respectively, but these figures include 1,151 and 1,645, respectively, raised in the Manchester recruiting district.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:47:21 PM

COMMUNIST COUNTRIES (DETAINED BRITISH CITIZENS)

HC Deb 11 December 1950 vol 482 cc101-3W 101W

 Major Beamish
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will publish a list of British citizens known to be held against their will by any Communist-dominated country which is a member of Cominform, giving details of date of arrest and stating whether the Governments in question have given permission for these persons to be visited by relatives, the British consul or British officers.
 Mr. Ernest Davies
Following is the list, which includes only those cases where we have conclusive evidence of detention.
102W
I.—U.S.S.R.
The Soviet authorities have admitted detention of three British soldiers in Germany. These are:
(1) Private F. W. J. Kelly, 133, Parachute Field Ambulance, who was arrested in September, 1946, and sentenced to 10 years' imprisonment for alleged espionage. His Majesty's representatives have not been able to obtain permission to visit him.
(2) Private D. Eggleton, 1st Manchester Regiment, who has been absent from his unit in Germany since October, 1947. The Soviet authorities admitted in February, 1948, that they were detaining him, but have never granted facilities to His Majesty's representatives to visit him.(3) Private A. Baker, 2nd South Staffs. Regiment, who has been absent from his unit since December, 1947. The Soviet authorities admitted his detention in February, 1948; but no satisfactory reply has been received to repeated requests for facilities to visit him.
In addition to these three cases:
(4) Major R. J. Squires, R.A.E.C., has been absent from his unit in Germany since September, 1947. There is reliable evidence that he was detained by the Russian authorities at Schwerin, but inquiries as to his whereabouts and requests for permission to visit him, have met with no satisfactory response.
II.—POLAND.
(5) Mrs. Blakeley, a British subject present in Poland at the outbreak of war, was arrested soon after the termination of hostilities. Inquiries by His Majesty's Embassy in Warsaw have produced no information as to her whereabouts, or the circumstances of her arrest.
(6) Mr. C. H. Turner (a former Air Attaché at His Majesty's Embassy, Warsaw);
(7) 2nd Officer H. Upperton, and
(8  3rd Officer G. Elmes were all arrested on 17th May, 1950, for allegedly attempting to smuggle a woman out of Poland. They are still held by the Polish authorities, who gave permission for the British consul 103W to visit 2nd Officer Upperton and 3rd Officer Elmes on 6th December.
(9) Mrs. Halina Firth, a British subject of Polish birth, was arrested on 13th May, 1949, and sentenced on 9th March, 1950, to three years' imprisonment for sheltering an escaped prisoner. She has been visited in prison by the British consul.
III.—CZECHOSLOVAKIA.
Dr. Pinkas, employed for many years as a clerk at His Majesty's Embassy in Prague, and granted British nationality early in 1950, was arrested on 25th May, 1950, on a charge of being concerned in activities against the State. The Czech authorities have denied that Pinkas had ceased to be a Czech citizen, despite documentary evidence of his release from Czechoslovak nationality, and the British consul in Prague has been refused permission to visit him.
IV.—HUNGARY.
Mr. E. Sanders, of the Standard Electric Company, was arrested on November 22nd 1949, and sentenced to 13 years' imprisonment for alleged espionage on 21st February, 1950. His Majesty's representatives have not been allowed to visit him.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:47:53 PM
DISABLED SOLDIERS.

HL Deb 16 May 1916 vol 21 cc1048-53 1048

 THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY rose to ask His Majesty's Government whether they can now state precisely what provision will be made for disabled soldiers upon their discharge from hospital pending the payment of their pension.

 The noble Marquess said: My Lords, I do not desire in putting this Question to detain your Lordships with any lengthy remarks, because I have already felt it my duty to address the House more than once upon this point. Shortly stated, the situation is this. When soldiers are discharged from hospital disabled—that is to say, discharged not only from hospital but from the Service as well—there is an interval before their pension is fixed and begins to be paid. That interval ought to be short, but it is sometimes long. In any case it is absolutely necessary that some provision should be made during the interval for the soldier's livelihood and for the livelihood of his dependants. Certain concessions have already been made by His Majesty's Government, but we all thought they were inadequate. I am given to understand that, having taken time to consider the matter, the Government are prepared to go further than they have done hitherto. I therefore put this Question to my noble friend in order to give him an opportunity of stating exactly the position which the Government take up at the present moment, and how far they are prepared to go.
LORD BERESFORD
My Lords, this is the third time that this matter has been brought before the notice of your Lordships' House. On March 15 I asked my noble friend opposite whether disabled soldiers received pay until such time as the pension was awarded. The noble Lord replied— Pension dates front the time of discharge. There should be no period of time during which a man is not in receipt of pay or pension. I further asked my noble friend whether the gratuity of £2 awarded under Royal Warrant No. 1117 was given to the men. He replied— The £2 gratuity on discharge is credited to the man's account by his paymaster and issued as part of his balance. It is provided that a man going on pension shall have at least 20s. in his pocket on discharge, even though the account is in debt. All men should be settled up with on discharge. I may point out that the position is still very unsatisfactory. I give every credit to the Chelsea Hospital Pensions Committee for doing their best, but it appears to me that they are totally understaffed.
I would like to state a few cases to your Lordships. Private H. Walker, late of the Scots Guards, was discharged on April 28. On May 11, although he had written to the paymaster for arrears, he had had no money, nor even an answer to his letter. He has had no money since his wife's separation allowance stopped on April 28. This man had twenty years' service. The next case is that of Private F. J. Ardley, aged 20, of the City of London Regiment. He was wounded in the spine, and is paralysed in one arm and one leg. At the end of March be was discharged from the London General Hospital; yet on April 26 he had not received back pay or pension, and was without any means at all. His father is in the Army and his mother is living on the separation allowance. The next case is that of Trooper J.J. Impleton, of the 1st Life Guards. He had been receiving 25s. a week—now reduced to 10s. a week—and ls. 3d. a week for his child for life. This is all he has to live upon. I may mention that his left leg has been amputated, and he is suffering great pain in the stump. Then there is the case of Private H. A. Clarke of the 8th Royal West Kent Regiment. He lost a leg at Loos; he was discharged from Millbank Hospital, but has not yet had any pension. The only money he has received was £2 paid on February 23, since which time he has not received a penny or any reply to his letters. Private Samuel Wood, of the 1st Lancashire Regiment, was discharged from the London Hospital, and sent to the "Star and Garter" with injured spine. He is very worried about his wife and children. It is five weeks since his wife drew the separation allowance. He has no pension, and nothing to send to his wife. The last case with which I will trouble the House is that of Private H. Power, of the 8th Manchester Regiment. He has received no pay since his discharge on March 16. He is now in the Lewisham Military Hospital with asthma. He tried to get civilian clothes, but had not the 17s. 6d. to allow him to pay for them and return his khaki. If he got pay and arrears of pay he might be able to push along until he secured employment. At the present moment his wife is penniless, and he is still wearing his uniform.
Though the Chelsea Committee is very much overworked, I submit that it is our duty in both Houses of Parliament to see that these things do not occur. These men were told that they would never suffer for their patriotism, and that, if wounded, they would get a good pension and be well looked after. I can vouch for the eases which I have read out, and I hope my noble friend will be able to tell us something to prove that the Government are going to put a stop to this sort of thing. There may be many of these cases of which none of us are aware, for unless a man has a powerful friend he cannot get his case known. Consequently there may be many of these men suffering the greatest distress at the present moment. I hope that we shall get a satisfactory answer from the Government.
LORD SANDHURST
My Lords, I can assure the House that the Secretary of State deplores the existence of these cases, the hardship of which is patent to us all; and if the noble and gallant Lord will be so good as to send me particulars of the cases he has mentioned I will look into them myself at Chelsea and see that as little delay as possible occurs in regard to relief. Some time ago when, at the instance of the noble Marquess opposite, I explained the system of pensions, there was one matter which rather perplexed him, and I was not in a position at the time to give any satisfactory reply. The noble Marquess will remember that I stated that a man who lost a leg received 25s. a week for two months after discharge, but if he had lost an arm he received only 20s. a week. The noble Marquess wanted to know why a leg was valued at more than an arm. That matter has been gone into, and I am pleased to inform the noble Marquess that an arm is now to be regarded as of the same value as a leg, and whichever of these limbs a man loses he will receive the 25s.
I think I am right in assuming that this Question of the noble Marquess's arises out of one or two replies which I have given, and also owing to representations that have been sent to me from various sources as to delay in paying pensions when pay has ceased on discharge. I have been the recipient of a great number of these cases and have done my best to hurry matters up, sometimes, I am pleased to say, not entirely without success. But now I am glad to be able to tell the noble Marquess that the Secretary of State has made new arrangements by which the discharged soldier will be kept in touch with and a payment will be guaranteed to him every week from the date of discharge until the Chelsea Commissioners have settled his claim for pension. The main new departure is as follows. If by the date of the man's discharge the Pensions Issue Office have not received the decision as to pension 1052 from the Chelsea Commissioners, they will on the date of discharge issue to the man 10s. if he has no dependants, and 20s. if there are dependants, and the payment of this sum will be repeated weekly until the pension question is settled. When the Chelsea Commissioners have decided the pension, if it is more than the 10s. or 20s., as the case may be, the Pension Issue Office will refund the balance. That is to say, if the pension in the ease of a single man should be 15s.—namely, 5s. more than the weekly temporary allowance of 10s.—the extra 5s. will be refunded to the pensioner; but if the pension should turn out to be less than 10s. per week, a refund on the part of the man will not be required. And, further, a man who has been waiting some time for his pension will receive the arrears of the 10s. or 20s. unless he has been receiving aid from the Soldiers' and Sailors' Help Society. But the soldier will not be called upon to refund money to the Soldiers' and Sailors' Help Society.
In reply to the point raised by the noble and gallant Lord opposite I may explain that when a man leaves, the officer in charge of the hospital provides him with plain clothes, advances £1 of the pay warrant gratuity that becomes due to him on discharge, and gives him a railway warrant to his home, which the man should reach twelve or thirteen days before his formal discharge. The officer in charge of the hospital notifies the soldier's paymaster, who arranges (1) for rations for the soldier between leaving the hospital and his discharge; (2) for a cash allowance instead of clothes if the man already has a suit of plain clothes; and (3) for his approximate balance of pay. If the soldier is in debt to the public no deduction is made from the rations or from the clothes allowance, so that the position will be materially improved.
The noble Marquess referred to the delays that had taken place at Chelsea. Nobody deplores those delays more than the Chelsea Commissioners themselves. But the work which has been thrown on the Chelsea Commissioners has been very heavy. Cases have come in at the rate of nearer 6,000 than 5,000 per week. Each case has to be tabulated, various references have to be made, and very often the papers are sent up incomplete; but when, which unhappily seldom is the case, the missing documents are not important, the case is proceeded with and adjudicated upon. To show how great has 1053 been the work, I may mention that some of the clerks at Chelsea have been working often up to three and four o'clock in the morning to expedite the cases. The noble and gallant Lord opposite said that more staff is needed. He is quite right. We want more room and additional staff. Construction has either begun or will be immediately begun to increase the accommodation, and a much larger staff will then be employed, which we trust will result in more prompt dealing with the cases. In the meantime there is this provision for ready money to be given to the soldier immediately on his discharge, and it will be continued until the pension is payable. It is hoped that in this way delays may he prevented in future, and that these men who have done such good service will no longer have this suffering imposed upon them.
LORD BERESFORD
My noble friend said that the money, a very large sum, advanced to the men by the Soldiers' and Sailors' Help Society will not be deducted from the man's pension when it is given. Are the Government going to refund the money to the Soldiers' and Sailors' Help Society?
LORD SANDHURST
I believe that some arrangement has been come to on this matter between the War Office and the society.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:48:32 PM
COMPULSORY MILITARY SERVICE.

HC Deb 28 July 1915 vol 73 cc2395-457 2395

this is a very small part of the debate.

 Mr. NEEDHAM
I venture to introduce a new subject to the attention of the House. I put questions from time to time to the Financial Secretary in regard to proficiency pay for members of the old Volunteer force who in their membership of that force were efficient, and who since the War have re-enlisted in His Majesty's Forces. These excellent Volunteers do not get paid proficiency pay, which is given to members of the Territorial force. The answers the Financial Secretary has given are to the effect that they are not able to revise the decision to continue the present system, and therefore they continue to refrain from giving this proficiency pay. I think this is a very great hardship on a large number of old Volunteers who made themselves proficient according to the standard demanded by the War Office in their time, and whose Volunteer service to the country is now not regarded as having been given at all. The provisions of the Army Orders that exist to-day are that a man who has been in the Territorial Force and has been present) at two camps of fifteen days is entitled to proficiency pay. There are many many thousands of Volunteers in this country in the service to-day who in their time as Volunteers served fifteen-day camps, and particular injustice is done to many of the Manchester Battalions who during the last years of the Volunteer force were year by year going to fifteen-day camps for a period, I think, of seven or eight years, and I am quite sure the same remark can be made with equal definiteness with regard to other battalions throughout the country. I have had, and I expect many other Members have had, many letters on the subject. I might say I have been deluged by letters from old Volunteers on the point, but I content myself with reading one case. This is from a man in the 3rd/7th Manchester Battalion Regiment: As matters now stand I am denied proficiency pay, with a record of practically twenty-seven years' service, while a man who joined this unit in July 1913, attended training in August 1913 and May 1914, draws proficiency pay, with less than one-tenth of my service. This is a special injustice to Manchester Volunteers, as from 1900 to 1907 they were doing precisely the same training as the Territorials have since done. This hardship is all the greater because the arrangements and conditions for Territorials have only come into existence since the War commenced, and I think the House can give its cordial assent to the request of the old Volunteers that their case should be still once more reconsidered with the expectation that reconsideration will bring a favourable answer to their request. I hope the Financial Secretary to the War Office may be able to indicate some hopes in that direction. 

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:49:06 PM
Annuities for Crimean Veterans—Case of Ex-Sergeant Major John O'Connor.

HC Deb 31 May 1905 vol 147 c322 322

 MR. HATCH (Lancashire, Gorton)
To ask the Secretary of State for War whether the medals and annuities for distinguished or meritorious service have yet been issued to all the Crimean veterans; and, if not, whether, in view of the services of these old soldiers and the fact that many of them are in straitened circumstances and feeble health, he will give instructions for the immediate issue of the medal to at least all ex-non-commissioned officers, notably to John O'Connor, late sergeant-major and military clerk, late of the 63rd Manchester Regiment, whose case has on several occasions been commended to the favourable notice of the War Office by high officers.
(Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.) The amount allotted for annuities being limited, such rewards can only be given as vacancies occur. The grant is confined to soldiers or ex-soldiers above the rank of corporal, who must be recommended by the officers commanding the regiments to which they belonged. Since 1st April, 1904, when the sum allowed for these rewards was increased, forty-nine Crimean vetcrans have been granted the annuity and medal, but there are still several recommended who have not yet been provided for. Special consideration is, however, given to their cases when annuities fall vacant, due regard being had to the amount of the grant held by the corps to which they belonged. Sergeant-Major John O'Connor was granted an annuity of £10 from 1st April, 1904, with a medal for meritorious service.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:49:43 PM
Allotment of South African War Trophies.

HC Deb 08 August 1904 vol 139 cc1345-6 1345

SIP. THOMAS DEWAR (Tower Hamlets, St. George's)
To ask the Secretary of State for War if he will state to what public bodies trophies of the late war have been allotted.
(Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.) In accordance with the recommendations of the Trophy Committee, the guns captured in the late war have been See page 970. 1346 allotted to districts, and have been distributed by the General Officers Commanding as follows: the towns being in most cases either district or divisional headquarters:—
Great Britain and Ireland.
1st Army Corps Area   Aldershot.
2nd Army Corps Area   Tidwith.
Dower.   
Devonport.   
3rd Army Corps Area   Dublin.
Cork.   
Belfast.   
4th Army Crops Area   Colchester.
Rochester.   
Guildford.   
Not included in Army Crops Area.   York.
Chester.   
Manchester.   
Edinburgh.   
Glasgow.   
Perth.   
I have no further information to show to what public bodies the trophies have been allotted. These are in addition to those allotted to the Colonies and India, which are being dealt with by the Colonial and India Offices respectively, and to those presented to certain units in recognition of specific acts of gallantry. Jersey and Guernsey have also each received a captured gun. A certain number of captured rifles have also been allotted to public bodies at home, to the Colonies and India, and to regimental messes.


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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:51:13 PM
COURT-MARTTAL SENTENCE.

HC Deb 22 December 1916 vol 88 c1833W 1833W

 Mr. JOWETT
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that Private A. I. Goldberg, No. 46962, 3rd Battalion Manchester Regiment, a conscientious objector, was court-martialled at Cleethorpes on 12th December, 1916, and sentenced to six months' hard labour on 14th December, 1916; whether he is aware that this man's colonel on 15th December ordered him to dig trenches, which order the man declined to obey, with the result that on 15th December the colonel imposed the sentence of twenty-one days' bread and water; and whether he will inform the House of Commons under what powers this procedure was adopted by the colonel and under what regulation is it possible to sentence a man to twenty-one days' bread and water at all, and/or after sentence by court-martial?
 Mr. MACPHERSON
Inquiries are being made, and I will inform my hon. Friend of the result in due course.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:57:22 PM

PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)


ALLEGED INSULT TO THE UNION JACK.

HC Deb 10 April 1893 vol 10 c1817 1817

 COLONEL WARING (Down, N.)
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been called to the insult offered to the National Flag by two soldiers of the Dublin Fusiliers now quartered for musketry practice at Newtownards; whether he is aware that about 9 p.m. on Saturday, 1st April, a corporal and private of that regiment tore down and trampled upon a Union Jack displayed as part of the decorations in honour of the visit of the right hon. Member for East Manchester on the house of Hugh Morgan, in South Street, and that, when remonstrated with for their conduct by the owner of the house, they assaulted him and James Wright who was with him, injuring both of them very seriously with their belts; what steps have been taken to punish these men for their conduct; and whether he will consider the propriety of suggesting to the Commander-in Chief in Ireland the advisability of recalling the detachment to head-quarters.
 MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN
The information I have received differs materially from that upon which the hon. and gallant Member appears to have based his question. The following telegram has been received from the General Officer Commanding at Belfast:— Report of incident at Newtownards greatly exaggerated. Two privates Royal Dublin Fusiliers engaged in a brawl with some civilians, all very drunk. Union Jack was not pulled down, and statement that men were encouraged by a corporal is false. Doubtful whether assault was committed by soldiers or by owners of premises. Both fought, and the soldier was severely injured.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:58:13 PM
PLEASE NOTE.

If I post anything on here that anyone objects to let me know by PM and I will gladly remove it ;D

Also the spelling mistakes are theirs not mine, (for once)  :P

Please remember if anyone wants something moving into the open forum let me know by PM, or cut and paste it.

Timberman



WIDOW'S PENSION (MRS. F. BRADWELL).

HC Deb 30 November 1922 vol 159 cc879-80 879
 
  Mr. C. WHITE
asked the Minister of Pensions whether he will reconsider the case of Mrs. F. Bradwell, of Bradwell, Derbyshire, widow of Private Charles R. Bradwell, No. 28,234, Manchester Regiment, whose death was due to disability incurred on military service; whether he is aware that this woman is left with three children, the eldest only five years old; whether he is aware that she has been refused a pension on the ground that the man's removal from duty was not caused by the disability from which he is said to have died; and whether he will review the whole case with a view to Mrs. Bradwell receiving a pension?
 Major TRYON
The late soldier died two and a-half years after demobilisation from endocarditis, the first medical evidence of which is dated April, 1922 My medical advisers are unable to find such connection between the cause of the death and the man's military service as will satisfy the conditions of the Royal Warrant, and an award of pension cannot therefore be made to the widow. She has, however, a right of appeal to the Pensions Appeal Tribunal against the decision of the Ministry.
 Mr. WHITE
In that appeal will she be opposed by the Ministry of Pensions, as is usually done?

 Major TRYON
She will be given all the information available.
 Mr. WHITE
How does the Minister expect this poor woman, living on parish relief, adequately to fight her case?
 Major TRYON
The hon. Member, I think, misunderstands altogether the attitude of the Pensions Ministry. Our business is to place all the facts before the tribunal, and those familiar with the work of the tribunals know that.
 Mr. HOGGE
Is it not the case that, while it is true that the Ministry of Pensions furnish a précis of the evidence, the onus of disproving the facts lies upon the poor woman or the poor soldier, and in many cases they can only very inadequately state their case?
 Major TRYON
No, Sir, I do not consider that the onus is at all left upon the applicants. In all the cases that have passed through my hands, and where information, civilian or otherwise, is desired, we make it our business to apply to the Service Departments for medical records, etc., so that we may have all the information that will help the applicant.
 Mr. HOGGE
We have already admitted that; but is not the point this, that after the Ministry has done all that, the person who has to plead before the Court is in that sense incapable, and should there not be some assistance given to him to prove his case?
Mr. SPEAKER
That is a new question.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:59:04 PM
Soldiers and Penal Servitude.

HC Deb 30 May 1906 vol 158 cc402-3 402

MR. LEA
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War with reference to the Annual Report on the Army [Cd. 2696], page 77, what were the names and corps of the nine men serving at Home who were sentenced to penal servitude and the fifteen men serving Abroad who were likewise sentenced in 1905, will he give in each case the offence or offences for which each man was tried, and when, where, and by whom they were tried, also the names of the persons who confirmed the sentences, and what opportunity was given in each case to appeal; and whether the evidence has since been submitted to the Judge Advocate-General, and if he approved of each sentence.
MR. HALDANE
I am glad my hon. friend has given me an opportunity to correct a clerical error in the return. The figures for soliders sentenced to penal servitude in 1905 should have been stated to be, one serving at Home; eleven serving Abroad. All these sentences were inflicted by General Courts-Martial and were confirmed at Home, by His Majesty the King; Abroad, by the General Officer Commanding the troops. The proceedings have all been reviewed by the Judge Advocate-General concerned, and, in India, the confirmations were approved by the Governor-General in Council. The particulars of the cases are as follows:— At Home: a man of the Manchester Regiment was tried at Ashton in January, 1905, for deserting from Ladysmith during the siege. Abroad: a man of the 2nd Border Regiment was tried at Thayatmyo in September, 1905, for wounding with intent to murder, and another of the 1st Royal Munster Fusiliers was tried at Mooltan, in November, 1904, for a similar offence. Seven men of the 1st West India Regiment were tried at Barbados in October, 1904, for perjury. A man of the 1st Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers was tried in Mauritius, in October, 1904, for striking a lieutenant on duty, and another of the 3rd Lancashire Fusiliers was tried at Middelburg in April, 1905, for striking a sergeant on 403 duty. It is considered, in the interests of the men, not advisable to make public their names. As regards appeal the reply is as given to Question No. 58.†
See preceding Question and Answer.
MR. ARNOLD-FORSTER
Why is it considered necessary to conceal the names of men who deserted to the enemy?
MR. HALDANE
The necessity does not apply specially to that case. The information is always available if required.
MR. LEA
How did the discrepancy in the figures arise?
MR. HALDANE
It was a clerical error in making out the return.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 04:59:31 PM
WAR OFFICE (AUXILIARY FORCES)— THE TOWER HAMLETS ENGINEER VOLUNTEERS—BURGESS SHORT.

HC Deb 01 March 1888 vol 322 cc1835-6 1835

 MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR (Donegal, E.)
asked the Secretary of State for War, Whether, as stated in the evening journal The Star, Mr. George Short, a retired printer, who in 1886 adopted the name of Burgess Short, was in that year, on the recommendation of Colonel Kirby, commanding the Tower Hamlets Engineer Volunteers, appointed lieutenant in that corps, being at the 1836 time some 48 years of age, and never having handled a rifle; whether Colonel Kirby recommended him in 1887 for a captaincy, and whether the War Office refused to promote him, on the ground that such promotion would involve the supersession of four officers equally or better qualified; whether he was introduced in December last by Mr. Morton, of the War Office, to General Lyon Freemantle as "the Editor of The Broad Arrow;" whether, in The Gazette of 9th December, 1887, he was appointed captain in the 3rd and 4th Battalion of the Manchester Regiment of Militia, passing over the heads of 11 lieutenants and six second lieutenants; and, whether he had previously served in the Militia?
 THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY, WAR DEPARTMENT (Mr. BRODRICK) (Surrey, Guildford)
(who replied) said: Nothing is known at the War Office as to the former name or profession of Mr. Burgess Short. He was appointed a lieutenant of the Tower Hamlets Engineers in 1886, being then about, 47 years of age. His promotion to captain in May, 1887, was refused, as he was not qualified, though he did subsequently qualify in August of that year. He called upon General Freemantle in November; but was not introduced by Mr. Morton, nor was General Freemantle aware that he was in any way connected with the Press. Upon the recommendation of the Commanding Officer of the regiment and the General of the District, he was appointed captain in 3rd and 4th battalions Manchester Regiment, on the 10th December, 1887. He passed over the subalterns, none of whom had, or have since, qualified for promotion, although there are still four vacancies for captains in the regiment which cannot be filled up. He had never previously served in the Militia, though he had been attached for instruction to a battalion of the Guards and to the 1st Manchester Regiment.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:00:35 PM
ISSUE OF DEFECTIVE WAR OFFICE TENTS TO VOLUNTEERS.

HC Deb 08 March 1898 vol 54 c983 983
 
 MR. R. ASCROFT (Oldham)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been called to the fact that in September, 1896, complaints were made by the Colonel in command of the 6th V. B. Manchester Regiment to the Inspecting Officer that the tents supplied were defective and not water-tight; whether he is aware that, notwithstanding such complaints, similar defective tents were again supplied in 1897, and that such tents had been in use for 15 years; and whether he will cause inquiries to be made with a view to Volunteer regiments being in future supplied with proper tents?
 MR. POWELL-WILLIAMS
No special complaints can be traced as having been made in regard to their tents by this battalion in 1896; but the Inspection Report of 1897 did describe their tents as defective, and that report is now under consideration. Large numbers of tents are condemned and replaced every year; but they must be used till they are worn out, and, as they are issued indiscriminately to all classes of troops, it will almost necessarily happen that any particular corps will occasionally have tents in their last stage of serviceability.
 MR. ASCROFT
Will steps be taken in the future to prevent defective tents being issued to the Volunteers?
 MR. POWELL-WILLIAMS
I cannot catch the Question.
 [Mr. ASCROFT repeated it, but the hon. Gentleman was still unable to hear it, and consequently no Answer was given.]

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:02:41 PM
EGYPT (MILITARY EXPEDITION)—THE 63RD REGIMENT AND 1ST BATTALION SEAPOBTH HIGHLANDERS.

HC Deb 30 November 1882 vol 275 cc375-6 375
 
 SIR WILLIAM HART DYKE
asked the Secretary of State for India, Whether it is true that the 1st Manchester, 63rd Regiment, and the 1st Battalion of Seaforth Highlanders, lately serving in Egypt, remained on the India Establishment until October 10th; and, whe- 376 ther from time of landing up to that date they received Indian or English pay and allowances?
 THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON
The 1st Manchester and 1st Seaforth Highlanders remained on the Indian Establishment until relieved on it by the 2nd Derbyshire and 2nd Manchester on, I believe, the 14th and 15th of October respectively. From the date of their landing in Egypt up to those dates, they, as I stated last Monday, came on the same scale of pay and allowances as the rest of the British troops with the Expeditionary Force.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:03:08 PM
QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS.

HL Deb 04 May 1883 vol 278 cc1836-7 1836

VISCOUNT ENFIELD
rose to ask the Secretary of State for India, Whether the officers of the 1st Battalion Manchester Regiment (late 63rd) and the 1st Battalion Seaforth Highlanders (late 72nd), having received six months' field allowance during service in Egypt, in common with officers of other regiments, had since been called upon to refund the same; and whether those officers ceased to receive the usual rates of Indian pay and allowances after their arrival at Suez in August last, although the regiments to which they belonged were not placed upon the English establishment till the 10th of October? The noble Viscount said, these two regiments landed at Suez in the latter part of the month of August, and on the 10th of October were placed on the English establishment. It was contended that they should not receive higher pay and allowances than other officers; but they had received six months' pay and allowance for duty in the field as well as the other officers who formed part of the Egyptian Expedition; but the six months' field allowance which was issued to the 63rd and 72nd Regiments had been withdrawn. With regard to the 63rd Regiment, he was informed that although the quartermaster had in his hands six months' allowance for the officers, it was not issued to them; but the officers 1837 in the 72nd Regiment had received the six months' pay and allowance and had since been compelled to refund it. Either these regiments were entitled to receive Indian pay and allowances, or they were entitled to receive six months' field allowances. He was quite certain that an unintentional oversight had occurred, and that there was no intention on the part of the Government to deprive the officers of these two distinguished regiments of any allowances to which they were justly entitled.
THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY
My Lords, the fact is the officers referred to were not considered entitled to the field allowance on quitting India, because up to the date of their landing in Egypt they continued in receipt of those higher rates of Indian pay and allowances which include the provision of field equipment, to meet the cost of which the advance in question was given to officers proceeding on service from England. From the date of their landing in Egypt, however, they received the War Office daily rate of field allowance. The regimental authorities of the Seaforth Highlanders drew the whole of the six months' field allowance, and have been called on to refund. A similar claim by the Manchester Regiment has been disallowed. On representations, however, subsequently received, the India Office has under immediate consideration the claims of the officers to the whole six months' advance.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:03:39 PM
THE SEAFORTH HIGHLANDERS—FIELD ALLOWANCE.—QUESTION.

HL Deb 14 June 1883 vol 280 c516 516
 
VISCOUNT ENFIELD
asked the Secretary of State for India, Whether any decision has been arrived at with regard to granting "Field Allowance" in the recent Egyptian campaign to the 1st Battalion of the Manchester Regiment and the 1st Battalion of the Seaford Highlanders? The subject had been alluded to some weeks ago in Parliament, and the noble Earl had promised to give it consideration.
THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY
I am happy to be able to inform my noble Friend that I have approved of the grant to both the battalions in question of the full six months' field allowance. The War Office has been duly informed of this decision.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:04:16 PM
ARMY—OFFICERS IN THE RESERVE FORCES.—QUESTION.

HC Deb 01 August 1870 vol 203 cc1282-3 1282

MR. W. E. PRICE
said, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for War, with reference to the schools which in his statement on introducing the Army Estimates, he stated it to be the intention of Government to establish, for the instruction of Officers of the Reserve Forces, When and where such schools will be established, and on what terms Militia Officers will be permitted or required to attend them; and, whether there is any chance of such schools being established in time to permit of Volunteer Officers availing themselves of them before the end of the Volunteer year, 30th November 1870?
 MR. CARDWELL
Sir, it is proposed to establish the schools for the artillery at Woolwich, for the engineers at Chatham, and for the infantry at  Aldershot, London, Glasgow, and Manchester. We shall endeavour to publish the Regulations, so as to open them on September 1. Militia officers will be permitted, but not required, to attend, and will receive the same allowance of 5s. a day which they now receive when they attend regiments of the line.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:04:42 PM
WAR OFFICE—MILITARY BANDS AT THE MANCHESTER EXHIBITION.

HC Deb 11 August 1887 vol 319 c50 50
 
 CAPTAIN COTTON (Cheshire, Wirral)
asked the Secretary of State for War, Whether it is the case that permission has been given to some military bands to play at the Manchester Exhibition, while similar permission has been refused to the band of the Royal Artillery; and, if so, why?
 THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Mr. E. STANHOPE) (Lincolnshire, Horncastle)
Permission was given early in the year for the band of the Royal Engineers to play at the Manchester Exhibition, and later the band of the Gloucestershire Regiment, which is stationed in the Northern District, has played there. For military reasons it has recently been found necessary by the Military Authorities to prohibit bands from playing out of their own districts without special sanction from headquarters.
 CAPTAIN COTTON
Was permission given to the band of the 2nd Life Guards?
 MR. E. STANHOPE
I have no information on the subject; but I will inquire.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:05:12 PM
ALLEGED ILLEGAL ARREST.

HC Deb 15 April 1889 vol 335 c480 480

 MR. JOHN O'CONNOR (Tipperary, S.)
asked the Secretary of State for War if he was aware that Private J. Smith, Manchester Regiment, was, on the 10th of March last, induced by Sergeant Griffin, Royal Irish Constabulary, to go to the entrance of the police barrack at Bansha, and that, without having committed or being charged with any offence, he was forced into the police barrack, knocked down by Sergeant Griffin, and forcibly prevented by him and Constable Spillane from leaving the barrack; and, if Private Smith has since been sentenced by Court-Martial to imprisonment with hard labour for nine months in respect to the above occurrence?
 THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. E. STANHOPE,) Lincolnshire, Horncastle
It is true that the private, smith, was sentenced by a Court-Martial to nine months' imprisonment in respect of the occurrences mentioned in the question; but on the evidence coming before the Judge Advocate General, he upon the 6th of this month quashed the conviction.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:05:55 PM
SANITARY CONDITION OF GIBRALTAR.

HC Deb 28 July 1899 vol 75 cc670-1 670

 MR. PIERPOINT
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether, since the reception of the Report of the Committee appointed to inquire into the general and sanitary condition of Gibraltar, any steps have been taken, and, if so, what, in respect of the venereal disease prevailing amongst the garrison; whether he will give the statistics of such disease in the Royal Artillery, in the Royal Engineers, in the Grenadier Guards, in the Coldstream Guards, and in the Manchester Regiment, respectively; whether the report of the Committee will be laid upon the Table without further delay; and, whether the Governor has absolute power to send out of Gibraltar, without reason given, any person who is likely to spread disease amongst the troops.
 
 MR. WYNDHAM
The recommendations of the Committee have necessitated a good deal of correspondence between the three departments concerned (War Office, Admiralty, Colonial Office), and there is every reason to believe that an agreement will be come to with regard to the more important points. I am unable to give the information asked for in the second question, as the statistics do not distinguish between corps. A new Governor will assume office in the autumn, and his views will be ascertained before a final decision is arrived at. The Secretary of State will consult the Colonial Office and the Admiralty as to the desirability of presenting the Report to Parliament.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:06:27 PM
PART ONE

VOLUNTEER EQUIPMENTS.

HC Deb 13 March 1890 vol 342 cc727-64 727

 SIR E. HAMLEY (Birkenhead)

Mr. Speaker, I have always insisted on the necessity for equipping the Volunteers, and I did so at a time when the services they might render to the country were little appreciated, indeed almost unthought of. The value of the force is now fully recognised, and the Government, as well as its military advisers, have seen that the feeling of the country is far in advance of anything that has been done or proposed in this direction. They have seen that the Volunteers form an indispensable element in the national defence, and they have seen also that to rely on the Volunteers without equipping them is an absurdity. They have, therefore, determined to equip them, and I desire to call attention to the method in which this is being done. In May last, a Circular was issued under the sanction of the Secretary of State for War, signed by the Adjutant General, in which were specified certain articles of equipment as necessary in order to enable the Volunteers to take the field, and then followed this passage:— After a date to be hereafter named, the possession of these articles to be made a condition of efficiency, and their production at inspection will be necessary, in order that the capitation grant may be earned. The capitation allowance made by the Government to Volunteer corps is for efficient men, and efficiency, according to the Volunteer Regulations, means efficiency in shooting with the rifle. Hundreds of thousands of Volunteers who have passed through the ranks have rendered themselves efficient and enabled their corps to gain the allowance;. Hundreds of thousands who are now in the ranks have done; the same; and yet, after having spent all this time and labour, they are suddenly told that unless they fulfil a new and totally different requirement, all that time and labour will go for nothing. This intimation might very well startle the Volunteers, and it has startled them. Now the penalty for failing to fulfil this new condition is deprivation of the capitation allowance. This allowance has been always found insufficient, and therefore the great majority of the corps have been forced into debt.
In 1887 a Committee was formed to inquire into the matter, and the following points wore referred to it by the War Office:— First, to inquire what were the necessary requirements of the Volunteer Force to be covered by the capitation grant; secondly, whether the present grant was sufficient; and thirdly, if not, in what form any increase should be given. The Report of the Committee stated that the grant was insufficient; it recommended that an increase should be made to enable the force to meet their liabilities for necessary purposes; and it-specified what those necessary purposes were, and equipment was not among them. There exists, therefore, no justification whatever for calling upon the Volunteers to provide their own equipment, and to deprive them of a grant which, is scrupulously proportioned to their necessities must mean financial ruin. The Circular divides the equipment into two classes—the one, that which is to be found by the Volunteers themselves; the other, that which is to be provided in a different way.
On mobilisation the State proposes to give two guineas for every efficient man with which to provide the articles of the second class. There is no apparent reason to be found in any statement on the subject why the Volunteers should provide one class of equipment, and tin! State the other. Both are equally indispensable. The inference is that the distinction has been made in order to save the State from paying for a part of the equipment, and to throw tin; cost on the Volunteers. The War Office should have calculated the total expense of the equipment, and have at once said that it would provide it. The Circular with its demand has, however, not been without effect. It procured the co-operation of the Lord Mayor of last year, who, no doubt, was well aware that the Government would be very much obliged to anyone who would spare it the pain of asking for money to provide fur the public safety. In July the Lord Mayor issued an invitation to the public to subscribe to what he called the Patriotic Volunteer Fund, and the letter which accompanied the invitation stated that a Government grant for that purpose would, as many Volunteers felt, change the voluntary character of the force, and greatly diminish its charm. Why "the charm," as the Lord Mayor poetically termed it, should be diminished by that kind of Government grant, any more than by the capitation allowance, or by the grant for the other part of their equipment, or by getting up the Patriotic Fund, no one, probably, except that particular occupant of the Civic Chair, could undertake to explain. Now, to show the inconsiderate way in which this business was entered on, I will mention that the Lord Mayor began by asking for £85,000, and though he only got half of that sum, yet it was more than amply sufficient for its purpose. It is, so far, a success, but a very partial one, for it leaves the enormous majority of the Volunteers—namely, the provincial corps—quite un-provided for.

On bringing this matter before the House last Session, the Secretary for War suggested several ways in which this money might be raised. He said the Volunteers might borrow it, the expediency of which counsel may perhaps be open to doubt, or it might be provided by public subscription, as if they were sufferers by flood or fire, or, lastly, they might apply their minds to the problem. We are all of us aware of cases in which persons who cannot get money in ordinary ways apply their minds to the problem, and often display great ingenuity in doing so, but they are not perhaps a class of persons whom it is desirable the Volunteers should imitate. The result is that at present there are some corps who have endeavoured to provide the necessary money, there are others who are still making efforts, while some are tacitly waiting the signal for being declared inefficient. On the 10th of February last a meeting was hold at Newcastle, representing Northumberland, Newcastle, and Berwick, to consider the position of the Volunteers of the country, when a resolution was agreed to that, inasmuch as the members of the force rendered valuable services for which they received no pay, it was unjust and inexpedient that they should be subject to any charge in respect to the equipment necessary to enable the country to secure the benefit of their services.

A Committee was formed to consider the subject. So that nine months after the issue of the Circular, that is all they have as yet arrived at. It is really quite pathetic to watch ether efforts that have been made, such, for instance, as where officers endeavour to give dramatic performances to assist the equipment of their men for the Public Service. This can hardly be called a success, but, how ever successful, I should still have objected to it on account of its unfairness, because it throws on part of the public the task of finding money for national purposes which ought to be borne by the whole of the community which does not render personal service. Now, the problem, we have to face is this: the provincial corps having no ambitious Lord Mayor to appeal for them, and no rich community to respond, remain in great measure unequipped. Will the Circular be thereupon enforced against them; will they be deprived of the grant? If so, they must to that extent cease to exist; and how does the Government propose to replace them? It must be remembered that Volunteers need only give very short notice in order to pass back into the general mass of the population.
At the very time we are running this risk the Volunteers are being made every year more and more an indispensable element of national defence. They form by far the greatest force numerically of our defensive Army, and all the schemes of national defence take them into account and assign them to their various posts, and, it may be said, those schemes would fall to pieces without them. I submit, then, that this present step is ill-advised and dangerous. It is another example of the unwise spirit in which, we are dealing with this invaluable force. Instead of finding new, unforeseen, and impossible conditions imposed on them, they should meet with all reasonable encouragement, and every step should be taken consistent with strict discipline to render the Service attractive. What escape is there from the dilemma which the Circular has got us into? I would respectfully venture to suggest for the consideration of the right hon.

Gentleman, according to the terms of the Resolution, that after a fixed date all deficiencies of the equipments of Volunteers which are necessary to efficiency, and all debts of corps properly incurred on account of the same, should be made good from the public revenues. I would also suggest that the throat contained in the Circular of deprivation of the Grant should be at once rescinded. I have endeavoured to place this statement before the House in the most simple and unvarnished terms. I think it is very unlikely that many persons, unless they are Volunteers, have made themselves acquainted with the facts which I have stated. It is, however, exceedingly desirable that hon. Members and the public should become acquainted with
 PART TWO TO FOLLOW 

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:06:57 PM
PART TWO


VOLUNTEER EQUIPMENTS.

HC Deb 13 March 1890 vol 342 cc727-64 727

these facts in their own interest and the interest of our Citizen Army; and this is my reason for bringing the matter before the House.

 Amendment proposed, To leave out from the word 'That' to the end of the question, in order to add the words 'it is expedient that, after a certain fixed date, all deficiencies of the equipments of Volunteers which are necessary to efficiency, and all debts of corps properly incurred on account of the same, be made good from the public revenues,'"—(Sir Edward Hamley,) —instead thereof

 Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

 MR. HOWARD VINCENT (Sheffield, Central)

I gladly rise to second the Motion of my hon. and gallant Friend, and I take the opportunity of thanking him on behalf of the Volunteer Force for bringing this matter forward. If the Volunteers are worth anything at all I submit they ought to be equipped properly and maintained at the expense of the State. The House will, I feel sure, admit that the services rendered by the Volunteer Force to the country are incalculable not only in a defensive sense, but in a physical sense, a moral sense, and a patriotic sense. The right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for War has in many ways since he has held office evinced sympathy for the Volunteers, and I am sure the Force will acknowledge the assistance which the right hon. Gentleman has rendered it on many occasions. But I fear that the right hon. Gentleman is not always supported by some of his subordinates as well-wishers of the Volunteer Force would desire and hope. It looks often as if a strict watch was being kept at head quarters upon every Regulation and every allowance that might be beneficial for the development or the training of the Force, and early opportunity taken by some means to check or limit any such order when issued. I am sure that Volunteers as a whole, and especially commanding officers, were very glad indeed of the efforts made to improve the rifle shooting of the force, but no sooner were Regulations issued on that head than we were deprived of 15 rounds of the ammunition we had had for many years. When this was brought to the notice of my right hon. Friend he was good enough to say ho would take this matter into re-consideration, and he says he will allow these 15 rounds again in cases where it can be shown they are absolutely essential. But, I submit, that to have these proposals, these changes and alterations, adopted, often without consideration of the needs of the force, is not only very harassing, but gives rise to a great deal of unnecessary feeling. The Adjutant General of the Forces, in a speech the other day, referred to musketry shooting', and said there was not a battalion of Volunteers who could shoot against any regiment in the Army. Well, that is true, naturally, but I am quite sure that Lord Wolseley, to whom the Volunteer Force is indebted in many ways, had no intention of speaking in a disparaging tone of the fore, but it is certain that comparisons of the kind are not just, and are calculated to give rise to a great deal of needless irritation. In the matter I have mentioned, musketry shooting against the Regular Army, I will only say that the corps I have the honour to command will be ready to shoot against any regiment at any time and under any conditions. My hon. and gallant Friend has referred to the efforts made by Mayors and Civic Authorities to follow the example of the Lord Mayor of London, and raise a fund for the equipment of the Volunteer Force, and I quite agree with what he has said, that it is not fair to the force or to the public. It is absolutely necessary, at any rate, that rifle ranges, drill sheds, parade grounds, and places for exercise should be provided by the State, if the force is worth maintaining at all. I am certain that no Member of this House will contend that the Volunteer Force is not of the greatest national advantage, and thoroughly worth the money to make it in every way efficient. The difficulties of commanding officers on this head are little understood by the public, and are little appreciated by the Authorities. When the Volunteers go out in largo numbers, as they do at Easter, there is the greatest difficulty in finding places where they can be exercised or barrack rooms where they can be located. I do not wish to press this matter at any length on the House, but I do most cordially second the Motion of my hon. and gallant Friend, which I trust will find a favourable reception and consideration by the House and the Government.

 MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN (Birmingham, W.)

Before the hon. Gentleman replies I should like, if you will allow me, to say a word or two from this side. Perhaps I owe an apology to the House, because I am not a military man, and am not even a Volunteer, and this is the first occasion on which I have taken part in what is usually considered a military debate. But I have a personal interest in the matter, and I am especially interested, because we in Birmingham are in the position which has been indicated by the hon. and gallant Gentleman opposite (General Hamlyn). We have there a very efficient Volunteer Corps, though it is not so large as I should like to see it, and when this Circular was issued, it became a serious matter for us to consider how we should continue that force at all and provide for its necessary equipment. We have no Lord Mayor at Birmingham. It so happens that the last two gentlemen who filled the office of Mayor were worthy and admirable members of the Society of Friends, and, under such circumstances, they naturally declined to take any part in promoting the equipment of the force, and it fell to my lot to do what otherwise would have been done by the Mayor. I believe a meeting is to be arranged shortly after Easter, and large subscriptions, I believe, have been already announced, so that probably we shall find the equipments by voluntary assistance. Our only difficulty in securing this voluntary assistance is the feeling on the part of our liberal citizens that they ought not to be called upon alone to find these funds.
 They are willing to meet their fair share of the cost, but they do not see why the expense should not fall upon the whole of the community, for it is for the advantage of the whole community that the Volunteer Force is established. They say, and with reason, that the time is come when military authorities should tell us what value they set on the Volunteer Force, and tell us if it is really an essential part of the defensive force of the country, or if it is net. If it is not, and if it is merely an amusement  which certain of our citizens are induced to engage in, making some sacrifices for the purpose, then I think it is well that we should have this knowledge at once. If, on the contrary, it is an essential part of our defensive force, then I do maintain that the whole of its necessary equipment ought to be provided from the funds of the country. And even when that is done, let it be clearly understood that those who join this Volunteer Organisation, will have to make considerable sacrifices, not only in time, but in money. There are a number of things that naturally the State cannot be asked to do—prizes, for instance, at shooting competitions. In this and in other ways officers are

PART THREE TO FOLLOW


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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:09:31 PM
PART THREE

VOLUNTEER EQUIPMENTS.

HC Deb 13 March 1890 vol 342 cc727-64 727

already making large contributions. The point I desire to urge on the Government, and which I should like to press in the terms of the Motion, is that the Department should withdraw that part of the circular which involves a withdrawal of the efficiency grant if certain equipments are not provided. That is really a proposal that cannot be justified. It amounts to a breach of faith with the existing Volunteer Organisation. Unless this is done the position will be this—that in a few places, such as the Metropolis and in our large and populous centres, the liberality of citizens will provide what is necessary; but in other parts of the country there will be corps left in a position in which they are unfit to take the field, and cannot be considered part of our defensive force, and in the event of war breaking out you will have deprived yourself of the advantage of these forces by your own parsimony, a most undesirable state of things.

 THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY FOR WAR (Mr. BRODRICK,) Surrey, Guildford

I do not think we can complain of the tone of the speeches made, but it is necessary that the House should follow the advice of my hon. and gallant Friend, and investigate the facts before proceeding to give a strong vote upon the Resolution brought before us. Nothing is further from the intention of the Government, or would be at so much variance with actual facts and our action since we have been in office, than any idea either of parsimony in dealing with the Volunteers or want of appreciation of the services they have rendered to the country. But if a balance is to be struck between what the public has done and what the Government has done, I think we may fairly take this opportunity of putting forward what has been done towards rendering the force efficient. Special attention has been called to the Volunteer Force in consequence of their being included in the general scheme of mobilisation. Its existence has been a great moral benefit to the country, no doubt, since its establishment. Up to 1886 the Volunteer Force might have been said to be something like a haphazard collection of units, but there has, however, been a change in position, and the military advisers of my right hon. Friend have advised him as to the exact position Volunteers may be expected to take. Immediately the question arose of mobilising the Volunteers, there also arose the question of expense. Reference has been made to the Report of a Committee which assembled under the presidency of Lord Harris. My hon. and gallant Friend has rather skimmed over the pages of that Report, and has not looked thoroughly into the conclusions at which the Committee arrived and the methods by which they reached those conclusions. If he had done so, he would have found that the greater part of his Motion falls to the ground.

The Committee, which had upon it not merely members of the War Office, but two very distinguished Volunteer officers, went seriatim into the amount which the capitation grant would be expected to provide, and considering it, item by item, they proposed an increase of that grant and of other allowances. What was that proposed increase intended to cover? My hon. and gallant Friend said that clothing and equipment was not one of the items. Surely lie has not read page 9 of the Report, in which the words "clothing at so much per head" are specially included. If lie had looked into the Report a little more closely ho would have found that the clothing included the tunic, trousers, shako, gaiters, belt and pouch, and the great coat, to be given by a separate allowance. When we have taken these items, what remain, and what increase has been asked in the circular of the Adjutant General? Every single thing alluded to in that circular is provided tinder the capitation grant according to the estimate of the Committee, with the exception of the havresack, water bottle, and me t s tin, the whole of which cost 3s. 6d., and one pouch now likely to he added in consequence of the new rifle. On the other hand, if hon. Gentlemen will look a little more closely into the Report of the Committee they will see that the estimate is for only about 90 per cent, of the Volunteers to become efficient and earn the 35s. apiece. Bat, in point of fact, it is between 97 and 98 percent., and the difference in the capitation grant in consequence of the extra 7 par cent, is more than equivalent to the cost of the extra equipment demanded by the circular. So far as the Committee represent the facts, they prove satisfactorily and conclusively that nothing is asked for in the circular which cannot be paid for out of the capitation grant if properly administered. I do not wish for a moment to give any opinion as a civilian, but I must be allowed to refer to the fact that we had the advantage on that Committee of the presence of the hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for Gainsborough (Colonel pyre), who was able to show, by his own regiment, which he has commanded so many years, not merely that the capitation grant is enough, but that it has been sufficient to provide those equipments which the Committee consider to be necessary. The hon. and gallant Gentleman will be able to explain to other commanding officers how he has got those satisfactory results, and I hope he will also confer privately, with the same object, with the hon. Member for Sheffield, who has spoken in rather a disparaging way of the amount which has been granted to the Volunteers. I would like to say one word as to a remark of the right hon.

Gentleman (Mr. Chamberlain), that the Government ought to state what value they attach to the Volunteer Force. The best proof of the value we attach to that force is what we have accomplished since 1886. In the first place, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War thought it necessary for a time to check the increase of the infantry companies in order to encourage the enlistment of artillery and engineer Volunteers. That has had a most satisfactory result. In 1886 we had only five submarine mining engineer companies; now we have 31. The number of efficient engineers had risen to 9,900 in 1886, and has reached 12,500 in the present  year. That is a, substantial advance. Every one of these companies has a definite place in which to servo and in which to carry on mobilisation. There is also an increase in the artillery, and, despite the demand for the qualifying courses of musketry for the efficiency grant in infantry, the reduction in infantry Volunteers from all causes is only 3½ per cent, of efficient Volunteers. During this period the artillery Volunteers have received 284 guns of position' ranging from 16 to 40 pounders. That is an enormous advance, as every artilleryman knows, in providing the infantry with a proper complement of artillery service. Moreover, in consequence of the scheme of mobilisation money is taken in the Estimates, and sites are already bought for the special massing of Volunteers in positions where they will effectively support the field army. The regulation sunder which the Brigadiers conduct their own brigades into camp, have been framed with excellent results, but with considerable additional cost to the country. Something has been said about the equipment of great coats. The 2s. which was offered towards inducing Volunteers to get great coats has certainly resulted most satisfactorily. In 1887 there were only 40,000 great coats among 220,000 men; in 1888 there were 67.000; and last year 94,000, an increase in two years of more than 100 per cent.

It is really necessary that I should state the sums which the Government have asked Parliament to vote for the use of the Volunteers during the last four-years. When the Government came into office the Volunteer Estimates, including Volunteer Services and other Votes, amounted to.£807.000. In 1887 they rose to £841,000; in 1888 to £930,000; in 1889 to £961.000; and in the present year to £967,000. We have, therefore, had an advance of £ 1 60,000 in four years, which is equivalent to 15s. for every Volunteer: and that advance has been given although there has been no increase in the number of efficient Volunteers. It is an increase from £3 10s. to £4 5s., without any increase in the number of Volunteers, but solely in order to get them to attain to greater efficiency. I must say that, under the circumstances, it is a little hard that a Member of this House in the position of the hon. and gallant Gentleman for Birkenhead,  should talk of the unwise way in which the Government has dealt with the force. He apparently imputed to us that we I have been backward in recognising our responsibility in this matter; whereas, we submit that no Government has ever seriously organised the Volunteer Force before, or coped with the demands upon it. I will put before the Committee one or two considerations as to the Motion, which I think ought to be taken into account before it is too hastily resolved, that the Government ought to pay the whole expenses of equipping the Volunteers where they have not been able to equip themselves. Up to 1862 no capitation grant was given at all, but all expenses were met by private subscription. Although the Government then assumed certain responsibilities, it should be clearly understood that at that time, and at each successive advance, only sufficient money has been given to meet actual out-of-pocket expenses. I do not wish to say a word that might be deemed offensive to any commanding officer of the Volunteer Force, but it stands to reason that the administration of some Volunteer corps has not been so economical as that of others. In some cases it has even been exceedingly extravagant.

The hon. Member for Sheffield said that the Government should pay for ranges and drill halls, but the hon. and gallant Gentleman knows that there are corps who have spent as much as £10,000 on buildings, to which are attached baths, reading rooms, tennis courts, and almost every kind of luxury. Are the Government to undertake those debts, and are they to do nothing for those corps which have exercised due economy and prudence? We must consider whether it would be dealing fairly with those corps that have been economical to pay the whole of the demands of those corps which have not been economical, and whether, by doing so, we will not create profound discontent among those corps which, in consequence of their providence and foresight, are not obliged to make any claim upon the Government at all. It has been laid down broadly that it is the duty of the Government to place upon the whole community the cost of maintaining a force which is of advantage to the entire country. But there is another way of looking at that. We are asking 225,000 men to give their  services for nothing, while 20 times that number of their fellow-countrymen are equally able to give their services, but do not do so. Why should not these men contribute, and why should we by general taxation make both the men who serve and those who do not contribute equally? It is only fair that they who cannot or do not give their personal services should contribute something towards the cost of the force. Commanding officers already complain that since the rise of the capitation grant subscriptions for prizes have fallen off. I can conceive nothing which is more certain to check the flow of private subscriptions than a Resolution calling upon the Government to pay for all the necessities of the Volunteers when it is certain that the State cannot possibly assume all the liabilities at present met from private subscription. The hon. and gallant Member has, I think, meted out somewhat harsh treatment to the Lord Mayor, and has complained that my hon. Friend threw on the Lord Mayor the task of providing for

PART FOUR TO FOLLOW

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It goes on for ever but well worth the read.
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:10:29 PM

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PART FOUR

VOLUNTEER EQUIPMENTS.

HC Deb 13 March 1890 vol 342 cc727-64 727


the safety of the country. I know no man against whom such a charge is so groundless as my right hon.

Friend (Mr. Stanhope) who has not hesitated to bring before the House what no previous Minister has ever done, namely, a loan for fortifications for coaling-stations and commercial ports, and a loan for barracks, besides considerable additions to the Estimates. In the county county with which I am connected the idea of a Volunteer Equipment Fund has been taken up with the greatest interest and liberality. I believe there is every prospect in that county that the money necessary will be subscribed. I know that a similar result is going on in other counties, and I hope that my hon. and gallant Friend, and those who think with him, seeing the great progress which is going on, will not check it by pressing the Resolution now before the House. Reference has been made to the circular issued by the Adjutant General. There is no intention to press hardly on any corps. The utmost consideration will be given to all the circumstances in the case of a corps which, when the time comes, may not find itself in possession of a full equipment. There is no intention whatever of using this circular with the view of decreasing the Volunteer Force, or in any way putting difficulties in the way of a corps, otherwise efficient, which may find itself, owing to the circumstances of the past, in financial difficulty.' There are persons who support the authorities in thinking that the present capitation grant and allowances may be made equal to the present seeds. I am certain that no one who looks into the matter, and views all the facts surrounding the immense progress made in the last three years and the better position of Volunteer regiments, can have any ground of fear from the Government in regard to the circular. In these circumstances I ask my hon. Friend to consider whether it is necessary to give any stimulus to the Government either by the Resolution or by dividing the House.

 SIR H. HAVELOCK-ALLAN (Durham, S.E.)

Mr. Speaker, I think that Volunteers have every reason to be grateful to the Secretary of State for War for the great efforts which he has made in the past. I believe it is the general feeling that there never was a period when Volunteers were treated more generously than they have been by the present Secretary for War. We have heard all the great efforts which have been made to provide the Volunteers with a moveable artillery, and to provide a larger number of submarine miners and additional engineer companies, both steps in the right direction; but they do not in any way touch the present difficulties alluded to by my hon. and gallant Friend, and which I see no other means, whatsoever, of getting over.
 Either the Volunteer Force are liable to be called into operation for the defence of the country, or they are not. If they are, it is a necessity that they should be so equipped that they can fulfil the purpose for which as a force they were called into existence. As to our obtaining voluntary subscriptions. I have great reluctance to say anything that may check that movement. Of course it is a desirable thing that a movement in the direction of giving voluntary assistance should not be checked. But I think I am justified in saying that, with the exception of London, where the Lord Mayor had a large field, and perhaps Birmingham, there is no place where the example of those two vast centres is likely to be followed. In  Durham and Northumberland, where I have the honour to be in charge of a very large and excellent brigade of something like 6,000 men, it has been my duty within the last few months to endeavour to feel the pulse of this counties on the subject of obtaining assistance, and I am bound to say that I would be deceiving the public and inflicting injury on the Volunteer Force if I allowed the impression to prevail that voluntary subscriptions are likely to be obtained. On the contrary, these two counties of Durham and Northumberland, which are now in a state of exceptional prosperity, show a disinclination to give subscriptions, the reason which the leading men invariably give being that the opinion is becoming day by day more prevalent in the country that this is a matter which ought to be taken up by the Government, and by the Government alone. I do not go entirely with all the words of the Resolution. I think that a wise discrimination ought to be exercised in respect of the debts of corps.

 Many of the debts have been incurred in a way which will not bear examination, because of the imprudence with which they have been incurred. I do not suggest there has been malversation, but imprudence, and the greatest possible care, therefore, should be taken that the public purse is not called upon to pay debts other than those for equipments. With that exception I entirely agree with the Resolution. You may narrow the equipment down as much as you possibly can, but there is a limit beyond which you cannot go, for there are certain articles without which the bulk of Volunteers are not able to take the field—greatcoat, straps for carrying it, water-botttle, havresack, and another pouch. They cannot supply themselves in any way whatever except by an extra Government allowance. I have felt it necessary to make these remarks, though I have the greatest reluctance to do anything which would check the How of public subscriptions to provide equipments. But I am persuaded, from inquiries I have made not only in Northumberland and Durham but adjoining counties, that the extent to which voluntary sources are available is entirely exaggerated, illusory, and delusive. In the county of Durham, Lord Ripon has, for more than a year, been endeavouring to obtain the sum of  £1,200. He has only succeeded in obtaining £250, of which he subscribed £150 himself. I believe that is an indication of the extent to which aid may be obtained from private sources. The liberality of officers in assisting the maintenance of their corps is a source which cannot be further relied upon. I trust, therefore, that the Secretary of State for War will add to the other services which he has rendered the Volunteer Force by making strict inquiry sis to the articles which are absolutely necessary if or the Volunteer Force, and devising some means by which to supply them at the earliest possible period, if not by way of vote by way of loan, to be gradually paid off. I am perfectly certain by giving attention in this direction you will find the effort and cost more than counterbalanced by the increased efficiency which the Volunteers will exhibit.
 
 COLONEL BLUNDELL (Ince, S.W., Lancashire)

Sir, I concur in a great deal that has fallen from the hon. and gallant General. Though the Manchester regiments, with which I have the honour to be connected, are endeavouring to equip themselves, I am quite certain, taking the country as a whole, that there will be a great difficulty in obtaining the equipment of the Volunteers from private sources. Rightly or wrongly, there is a feeling that the Government should take up the work of properly equipping the Volunteers with all that is necessary. I would urge on the Secretary of State for War, while thanking him for what he has done in the past, that he should make these changes when the magazine rifle is issued to the Volunteers. The amount of the capitation grant should be then re-considered, arms, accoutrements, and equipments should be supplied, leaving the Volunteers to provide clothing only. The question of ranges is also one which it is absolutely necessary for the War Office to take into its special consideration, whether from the point of view of the safety of Her Majesty's subjects or the efficiency not only of the Volunteer, but of every other branch of the Service. For instance, at Manchester, a range is much needed, and I do think the Government should endeavour to provide ranges within an easy distance of all large centres of population.
 
 COLONEL CORNWALLIS WEST (Denbigh, W.)

I think the Volunteers of the country owe a deep debt of gratitude to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Birkenhead for the Motion which he has brought forward. The time has now arrived when the cases of, at any rate, the poorer corps should be taken into consideration. In my own county it has been found absolutely impossible to call public meetings to consider this question, because people will not attend; they say—and I confess that I think there is much force in it—that the Volunteers are a body recognised as a part of the military force of the country, and that so far as equipment is concerned the Government should see for it. But, on the other hand, the Volunteer officers are told that they must beg, borrow, or do what they can to obtain the necessary funds. For my own part, I have the strongest objection to any of these courses; I think it a degrading thing for officers to be obliged to get up bazaars, &c, in order to provide funds for the purchase of equipments which are essential to the force. I was very glad to hear from the Secretary for War that this circular is not to be pressed, because if it were, as far as many provincial corps are concerned, it would absolutely put an end to them. I hope and trust that the Government will take into consideration all the views which they have heard, and that they will find some means to assist the Volunteer Force in a greater degree than has yet been done—though I do not deny that much has been done—and that, so far as equipments are concerned, the Government will take the matter in hand.

 COLONEL E. S. HILL (Bristol, S.)

I wish to re-echo every word that has been said with regard to the consideration which has been shown to the. Volunteer Service by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War. Prior to 1886, many thousands of men passed through the regiment I had the honour of commanding for 26 years, and I do not think it right that the Financial Secretary should have described a force such as this as a mere hap-hazard collection of boys.

MR. BRODRICK

I did not say that. I said the Volunteer Force was, up to a certain date, a hap-hazard collection of units. The numbers of the different branches of the force had not been considered in connection with each other, and wherever companies or battalions of a particular arm of the force could be raised, such a formation was encouraged.

 COLONEL HILL

I am glad that I misunderstood the right hon. Gentleman. I entirely agree with the position in which the Volunteer force as described by my right hon. Friend the Member for West Birmingham, and the hon. and learned Gentleman the Member for Birkenhead. Either the Volunteers are a necessary portion of the defence of this country or they are not. If they are not they should be disbanded, but if they are, they should be supplied by the Government with everything they want for military service, and the Volunteers themselves should be asked simply to give their spare time. If the country wishes to have more than that, and to encroach upon the wage-earning time of the men, they ought to pay for it. I do not think it is right that a Volunteer should be put to any further expenditure of any sort. Notwithstanding what my hon. and gallant Friend has said with reference to the sufficiency of the capitation grant, I should ask leave to say that circumstances alter cases very materially, and it very much depends upon the position of a regiment whether or not its expenditure is heavy. I am very glad to hear him say that in his case they are able a have a little surplus, and, if he wishes to dispose of it, I should be happy to communicate to him the names of several corps by which that surplus could be advantageously expended. But as regards the question of equipment, I think it is unfair to ask Volunteers either to go about the country begging for subscriptions to provide military equipments for themselves, which seems to indicate a want of appreciation of their services on the part of the Government, or to ask officers to pledge their private credit at their bankers in order to provide the equipments. There is considerable difficulty in many regiments in obtaining the services of officers at the present moment, and if you put additional financial burdens upon the force that difficulty will be increased. I feel extremely grateful to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Birkenhead for having brought this matter forward, because he has, at any rate, elicited in regard to the circular a very satisfactory statement on the part of the Government. I trust he may see his way to rest satisfied with this statement and the discussion, and to withdraw his Amendment.

 THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. E. STANHOPE,) Lincolnshire, Horncastle

I hope I may be allowed to put it to the House whether this particular discussion should not come to a close. With regard to the Amendment, I think it is obviously impossible for the Government either to accept it or to say anything in encouragement of it. If I were to say a single word in support of it' it is obvious that not one further penny would be subscribed by the public, but all expenses would devolve on the Imperial Exchequer. It is undesirable, therefore, on behalf of the Volunteers themselves that the Motion should be pressed. I am obliged for the kind words which have been used about myself, and I am only sorry that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham has left the House, because I should have liked to address a special appeal to him. In Birmingham the number of Volunteers is utterly out of proportion to the population, and I think that the right hon. Gentleman in what he said as to the inability of the town to provide for the equipment of even this small body has pressed the matter beyond what was reasonable. Some hon. Members have stated, with great truth, that these articles were pressing and indispensable articles for Volunteers when they took the field. But they have been so for the last 30 years, and this formed no new argument in favour of taking the increase of the capitation grant again into consideration. I am strongly in favour of the principle of local

PART FIVE TO FOLLOW


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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:11:09 PM
PART FIVE

VOLUNTEER EQUIPMENTS.

HC Deb 13 March 1890 vol 342 cc727-64 727


subscription. I sympathise with the undue pressure which is put upon officers of Volunteer corps, who I think are put in an exceedingly unfair position by being called on for subscriptions, and that is, in my opinion, one of the main reasons why it is difficult to get officers. But the effect of increasing the capitation grant would not be to spare the Volunteer officers; it would simply relieve their wealthy fellow townsmen of the payment of the subscriptions they have given  in the past. I think that there ought to be some local subscription in all cases, and that a Volunteer corps is much more valued in a locality if the locality itself has a pecuniary interest in it. No one will doubt that I highly value the Volunteer Force, and I assure the House that my desire in this matter is to increase and not in any way diminish the value and utility of the Volunteers. I will take care that no undue pressure is put upon thorn. Having made that statement, and looking to the fact that during my term of office the capitation grant have been increased by £160,000 a year, I think the House may rest satisfied that I did not desire in any way to injure the Volunteer force. I hope that the hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for Birkenhead will rest satisfied with the discussion that has taken place and allow us to pass on to the other Motions of great importance which we have to consider this evening.
 
 MR. C. S. PARKER (Perth)

As no Scotch Member has spoken in the course of this debate, I should like to say briefly that there is no class of expenditure more favourably viewed in Scotland than that which goes to support the Volunteers, and the Scotch Volunteers are very thankful to the right hon. Gentleman for the increased grant and the corresponding increase in efficiency which he has brought about. I well remember how different were the conditions when the force was first started. The aid then given by the Government was niggardly, very little regard was paid to efficiency, and Volunteers found scanty favour with the authorities at the War Office. Since then great advances have been made. But more is needed, and it is in vain at this time to look for much increase in local subscriptions. There are certain things which will always have to be provided by local subscriptions, such as the prize and band funds; but I think it a mistake to suppose that voluntary subscriptions could be largely increased. On the contrary, I believe they will remain very much as they are at present, and it will therefore be wise for the Government while insisting on efficiency to provide for anything necessary to secure it in the Estimates.

 SIR ALBERT ROLLIT (Islington, S.)

After the appeal made by the Secretary of State for War I have no wish to prolong the debate for more than a moment. I hope that the Amendment will be withdrawn. But I desire to impress upon the Government that there is a strong feeling in the country in favour of something more liberal being done for the Volunteers. In passing, I should like, as a member of the Mansion House Equipment Committee, to acknowledge the liberality with which the appeal for funds to provide equipments for the Metropolitan Volunteers has been responded to, but I am of opinion that there is not in the country generally a feeling in favour of securing equipments by these means. If the Volunteers are, as I hold them to be, an essential part of the forces of the country, it is the duty of the State to see that they are properly equipped. I desire to acknowledge the great interest taken by the Secretary of State for War in that branch of the force with which I have the honour to be connected—the submarine miners, who have a capitation grant of £5. I admit that in this particular branch there is exceptional need for the increased grant, but I confess it strikes me that the disproportion between that and the ordinary grant is more than the difference in the nature of the services warrants. I hope the Government will therefore take the grant to the mining engineers as a precedent and an example to be followed in the case of the other Volunteers.

 MR. TOMLINSON (Preston)

I think it must be admitted that every branch of the Volunteer Service owes much to the present Government for its increased efficiency. There are many cases of financial difficulty in the Volunteer Force, and in some corps the equipment will only be provided in time by increasing those difficulties. I would suggest that the Government should provide at least the water bottles and pouches of the Government pattern; otherwise there may be risk of unserviceable articles being introduced. The dread of financial responsibility, I believe, prevents suitable young men from accepting commissions. But the greatest difficulty the Volunteers have to contend with just now is the provision of ranges. My own corps has had its range closed in consequence of the increased danger  from the Martini-Henry rifle, and how the men will be able to complete their musketry instruction this year I do not know. We are at present dependent upon the courtesy of another corps at whose ranges we are able only to carry out a portion of the tiring. I do hope that during the discussion on the Army Estimates we shall have some statement of the views of the Government as to procuring ranges, and some indications that a little more assistance, not necessarily pecuniary, will be given to enable the force to obtain proper ranges.

 MR. P. A. MUNTZ (Warwickshire, Tarnworth)

I have never taken any active part in the Volunteer movement, but I have always entertained a strong opinion that the expenses of the Volunteers should be borne by the Imperial Exchequer. The right hon. Gentleman has made some observations with regard to the Volunteer Force in Birmingham. No doubt there is a great disproportion between the strength of the Volunteer Force there and the population of that great city, bat I should like to point out to the right hon. Gentleman that the people, and especially the Volunteers of Birmingham, hold strong views on this subject, and I have no doubt that if the present system were changed and the expenses borne by the Imperial Exchequer the force in Birmingham would be very largely increased. The people of Birmingham comprise a very hard-headed body of citizens, and their attitude towards the force will be very largely influenced by the course adopted by the Government on this matter.

 MR. de LISLE (Leicestershire, Mid.)

Before the Amendment is withdrawn I should like to say a word or two on the subject. I am certain that the policy embodied in the Motion is one very strongly approved in the country, but might I suggest a slight amendment. I would recommend the hon. and gallant Gentleman to insert in his Amendment the words, "Outside the City and County of London." London is the wealthiest part of the nation; large sums of money are contributed out of the National Fund for the maintenance of its Parks and Museums, and public buildings, and, therefore, I think it ought to be treated differently in this matter from the rest of the country. Speaking for the Volunteers of the neighbourhood which I have the honour to represent in this House, I would soy that the best way to secure their thorough efficiency would be to adopt the policy suggested by my hon. and gallant Friend. I may add that, through the patriotic exertions of the Mayor of Loughborough, funds have been raised to secure proper equipments for local corps.
 
 MR. S. D. WADDY (Lincolnshire, Brigg)

I wish to join with the hon. and gallant Member in pressing this Motion on the attention of the Government. I believe that no sufficient attention is at present paid to the great difference which exists with regard to the pecuniary resources of corps in different parts of the country, and, so far as I can see, the only remedy for it would be to place the force under a central authority. If the spirit which gave rise to the Volunteer Force is to be maintained, there must be such an equal distribution of their resources as we can only have through one hand. As to the merits of this Amendment, everybody seems to be agreed. It is only when the House of Commons speaks authoritatively that the Secretary of War is entitled to spend such amounts of money as I believe he is really yearning and almost burning with anxiety to expend at this moment. I hope the Amendment will be pressed to a Division.

 MR. GROTRIAN (Hull, E.)

This question of Volunteer grant is in itself a very important matter, and it is one which has engaged the serious attention of the country. If I understand rightly the remarks of the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for War and the hon. Gentleman the Financial Secretary, I think they rather misapprehend the feeling of the country with regard to the subscription question. In the borough which I have the honour to represent a subscription has been got up which will provide the funds necessary for the equipment of the Volunteer forces in that borough, but many of the subscribers gave somewhat reluctantly. They felt they were doing that which it was actually incumbent on the Government to do, and they did it because their sense of patriotism rose superior to the sense of injustice which they thought they were suffering. I hope the hon. and learned Gentleman opposite (Mr. Waddy) rightly interprets the feeling  which permeates the mind of the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for War, when he attributes to him a burning desire to make up the deficiency. After all, what is it that is asked for? Simply that the equipment absolutely necessary for the Volunteer Forces should be supplied by the Government. Well, I think it is the least which can be; reasonably asked. The right hon. Gentleman took credit, and rightly so, for the largo increase of money which, under his auspices, has been granted to the Volunteer Forces, namely, I believe £160,000. If the addition of the £160,000 to the grant is sufficient to provide so much I am afraid it will furnish a very strong argument later on for hon. Members to vote in favour of a reduction of the very large sum which the right hon. Gentleman is going to ask for later on. The main reason why I rose was to impress upon the right hon. Gentleman the importance, so far as possible, of conciliating the somewhat ruffled feelings of those who have conducted for many years the Volunteer organization under circumstances of very great difficulty and at enormous sacrifice, and of granting those who are less favoured than many situated in wealthy districts some additional assistance.

 COLONEL SAUNDERSON (Armagh, N.)

My right hon. Friend the Secretary for War appears to have objected to this proposal mainly on the ground that it would have the effect of damming up the tide of voluntary contributions towards the equipment of the Volunteers. I think, Sir, that the Government would encourage that generosity if they adopted the system of proportional grants. This is done, I believe, in other matters, and I believe that if my suggestion wore adopted instead of damming up the generosity of the public it would still further increase it.

MR. E. HARDCASTLE (Salford, N.)
 
I would urge my hon. and gallant Friend to press his Amendment to a Division. Within the last week or two a deputation from the part of the country I represent waited upon the right hon. Gentleman in reference to the circumstances affecting no less than 6,000 Volunteers. Their range, which they had occupied for several years, had  been taken from them for purposes of cultivation, and after very great labour the Volunteers succeeded in finding what they believed to be the only place in which they can have a satisfactory range. All they wanted the Government to do was to advance£12,000, upon the security of the grants they were earning, to enable them to purchase this range. It has been intimated to them, however, although we hear so much of the expected surplus, that the finances of the country are not equal to the grant of a loan of £12,000 for a great public purpose of this kind, although the security for that loan is the Government grant. I certainly hope the Amendment-will be pressed to a Division.

MR. SALT (Stafford)

If this Motion, is not to be pressed to a Division I think we ought to have a more definite expression of opinion from the Government. I have watched this discussion carefully, and I believe on both sides of-the House every man present is anxious to vote for the Motion. I will not ask my hon. and gallant Friend to divide because I do not wish to see the business of the House checked or interrupted: but I do not think that the assurance given by the Government is satisfactory. Not a single Member has spoken against the proposal. We are told that the Government approve of the principle which the whole House has condemned, namely, the raising, by means of subscriptions, of money which ought to be defrayed by the Government. Then we are told that a certain Order which has been issued will not be pressed. Nothing, to my mind, can be more unsatisfactory than to have it declared by the Government that an inconvenient Order which has been issued to the Volunteers throughout the country will not be pressed. If the recent Order cannot be enforced it ought to be at once withdrawn. What we all want to secure is that the Volunteer Force shall be really efficient in time of war. Whenever that force conies to be

PART SIX TO FOLLOW

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:11:41 PM
PART SIX

VOLUNTEER EQUIPMENTS.

HC Deb 13 March 1890 vol 342 cc727-64 727


used it will be on a sudden emergency, and probably it will be employed against some of the best troops in Europe. We ought to be assured by the Government that the force is fit for service, and, if it! is not, that they will either give it up altogether or make it fit for service.

MR. E. STANHOPE
 
Might I say  one word by the indulgence of the House? If my hon. Friend will allow us to get into Committee he will be able to hear the statement I intend to make about the Volunteer Force. I have told the House perfectly distinctly that I do not want to press anything unfairly against the Volunteers, and that I am perfectly prepared to make every allowance for the difficulty experienced in particular localities, and to do my utmost, as I have always done in the past, to increase their efficiency.
 
 SIR E. HAMLEY

I beg leave to withdraw my Amendment.

COLONEL NOLAN (Galway, N.)

I object to the withdrawal.

 The House divided:—Ayes 102; Noes 135.—(Div. List, No. 26.)

 Words added.
 
 Main Question, as amended, put. Resolved, "That it is expedient that, after a certain fixed date, all deficiencies of the equipments of Volunteers which are necessary to efficiency, and all debts of corps properly incurred on account of the same, be made good from the public revenues.

 MR. W. H. SMITH

I now move that the House immediately resolve itself into Committee of Supply.
 Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House will immediately resolve itself into the Committee of Supply."

(Mr. W. H. Smith).

 SIR G. CAMPBELL (Kirkcaldy)
 
I have a Motion on the Paper in the following terms:— That this House regrets that the efforts of Her Majesty's Government are mainly devoted to concentrating and improving the Regular Army as such, rather than to localising and popularising the Forces of the Crown for defensive purposes. The Government have resisted a Motion which only required that they should find the necessary equipment for Volunteers, and they have been defeated by the House. I take a somewhat broader view of the matter than the Mover of the last Amendment, and I think I am justified in submitting, at any rate in the form of remarks, the view I entertain. What has just occurred justifies my action in putting my Motion on the Paper, and shows that, in the opinion of the House, Her Majesty's Government are not sufficiently alive to the Auxiliary Forces, that they have hitherto too much taken the Regular Army point of view in considering the matter. This country nowadays cannot rely on its Fleet alone. Modern changes have put us much more n the position of Continental countries ihan we used to be, and with our enormous accumulation of wealth we are bound to take efficient means to repel aggression. The Government, however, whilst they are doing the best they can for the Regular Army, have neglected the Auxiliary Forces. They have refused to meet the just requirements of the Volunteers.

Then there is the Militia which has declined by no less than 15,000 men in a few years—the number being now only 103,000, whereas it was formerly 118,000. This, to me, is a matter for very serious regret. I am aware that Her Majesty's Government have appointed a Committee to inquire into the subject, but I cannot trace in the Estimates or the arrangements they are making with regard to barracks any indication that they have resolved to deal with the matter in a radical fashion. I find that almost all the fresh expenditure contemplated is devoted to the Regular Army. In the matter of barracks their proposal is to concentrate the Regular Forces of the Crown in great camps. I see nothing whatever proposed, for providing new barrack accommodation for the Auxiliary Forces, and having watched the matter with considerable interest, I must say that the arrangement made for territorialising the Forces of the Crown is not genuine.
The Line Battalion never serve in their territorial districts. It is really a sham. It is not complete National territorialising. You have a large surplus of officers in the Army. You say that in order to provide for a proper flow of promotion you must have officers retire in the prime of life, and you give them a considerable pension to retire, while at the same time you cannot get officers for your Militia. It seems to me there is great inconsistency in this, and that certainly officers who retire with considerable life pensions should be required to serve in the Auxiliary Forces. I recently read an article in a military paper in which this view was  taken, and I think it is a view that cannot be controverted. Not only the officers, but the men and the Reserve Forces should be made part and parcel of our Militia Force and should not be kept separate as a mere adjunct to the regular Army. I want to see a large proportion, if not the whole, of the population armed for the defence of the country. Same people are afraid that if we encourage volunteering we shall encourage a military and Jingo spirit. That is not my view. The experience of France and other countries shows that the more popular the Army is the less inclined the country is to engage in foreign expeditions and aggressions. France was formerly the most military and aggressive country in the world, but it is not so now. What has brought about the change? Nothing, I believe, but the system of universal service, for that system has brought home to the minds of the people the fact that if they must tight abroad they must fight themselves.

The French Parliament would not allow their troops to go to Egypt to commit the aggressions we have committed, and the occupation of Tonquin was the most unpopular

 MR. SPEAKER

The rule is that the remarks of the Mover of an Amendment must be relative to the Amendment. The hon. Gentleman is entering upon a very wide field.

 SIR G. CAMPBELL

My only suggestion is, that it is very desirable that we should have a popular Army, that a popular Army is not likely to be an aggressive Army. I think that if we increase our Auxiliary Forces, oven at some expense to the Regular Forces, we should reap considerable advantage. We should make this great country much more secure than it is, and repress the spirit of Jingoism, which prevails amongst certain portions of the community. I admit the popular feeling of the country is not ripe for compulsory military service; but, on the other hand, I think it is the duty of the Government and of the House to do all they can to encourage a popular force of the people for defensive purposes. I would contract the expenditure on the Army, in order to increase the expenditure on the Auxiliary Forces, to do that justice to the Volunteers which the House has demanded we should do, and to restore the  Militia to the efficiency from which it has fallen in recent years. Looking at the matter merely from the point of view of the efficiency of the Regular Army, concentration in the great centres where great barracks are to be erected by the Government is good; but it is on these grounds better that the Forces should be localised rather than concentrated.
 I should like to imitate, to some extent, that admirable country Switzerland. That is a small but an industrious and democratic country, and the people submit to be called upon to serve in the Army for the benefit of their country. I have seen barracks there built not for the Regular Army, but as centres for local recruiting and local popular military exercising. I think that we might localise our Army and induce the people in the different localities to take a pride in their local Auxiliary Forces. It may seem a far cry from the Army to the eight hours' movement; but I come from a country where miners abound, and I find that the miners there, instead of going in strongly for eight hours, go in for taking a holiday with the Militia in the summer time.

Then I think the Scotch fishermen might be made available for coast defence. I have received a paper to-day, in which it is stated by a Committee for the Defence of the Forth that the excellent materials on the east coast are not utilised as they might be for the defence of the country. No doubt the Admiralty do invite fishermen to join the second class of the Royal Naval Reserve; but the statistics which have been compiled show that Scotch fishermen are practically shut out, as the drill is unsuitable and interferes too much with their ordinary work. Therefore, there is ground for thinking that the Government have not given that attention and money for the development of our Auxiliary Forces which it is right and proper they should give. I admit we are not in the same position as a country like France. We are bound to keep up a Regular Army which shall retain possession of India and our other great colonies; but my belief is, while I am not in favour of a separate Army in India, that we might achieve the object the Government desire to obtain by a system of volunteering for long service instead of by an ordinary short service Army. There is another source from which I  think a good deal of money might be derived for making the Auxiliary Service more efficient. It seems to me that the colonies do not contribute in anything like a just proportion to the cost of the troops furnished for their protection.

The net cost of our Army is about £113 per head, not including the expense of sea transport. I find that 35,000 men are employed in the colonies and Egypt. The cost of those troops is given at £2,237,000, which amounts to just about £64 per head. It is perfectly clear that the troops employed abroad cost not less, but a great deal more than the troops at home, and, therefore, I should put down the real cost of these troops at £150 per head. Why do we not get more for these troops employed abroad? I am aware that in the present year the Government are making an effort to get more, but I want to know why the demands made on the colonies are so unequal. I find that India pays the whole cost of the troops employed there, and the Straits Settlements are called upon to pay £100,000, which is a good deal less than the real cost of the troops. Ceylon pays no more than it has paid for some time-namely, £34,500. Why should that be, and why should the prosperous colony of Natal, which has a largo revenue and surplus, pay only £4,000 a year? Why should the Cape Colony pay nothing at all? It seems to me that by making an alteration in this matter we might save a good deal of money which could be devoted to the Auxiliary Forces.

 DR. FARQUHARSON (Aberdeenshire, W.)

Now that the Motions on the Paper have been disposed of, I presume I shall be in order in making a few remarks on a different subject. My text will be the present condition of the Army Medical Department. I quite admit that it is a great deal more convenient to raise matters of this sort on the Vote relating to them, and I will not deal with any point of detail; but I think it well that the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. E. Stanhope) should know at this early stage of the proceedings the great dissatisfaction and disappointment which has been expressed not only in the Army Medical Department, but in the medical profession outside at the decision he has arrived at in regard to the recommendations of the Departmental Committee. I think the right hon. Gentleman has missed a very valuable and, perhaps, unique opportunity of settling these questions once and for all. If he had adopted the Report of the Committee he would have entirely settled all the dissatisfaction which has been seething around the Army Medical Department for years—dissatisfaction arising from the unsettled state in which medical officers have been left, and from the condition of perpetual change to which they are subjected. One reason why the right hon. Gentleman was unable to adopt the Report was the expense it would have involved. He has stated that that expense would be £100,000 a year. I should have thought that a heavy estimate; but, of course, I must admit that on a question of this sort he is better informed than I. I think it unfortunate that he could not have put an end to the perpetual changes in the duties of the Army Medical Officers, and that he has been unable to sec his way to make some return to the old regimental system with the destruction of which has disappeared so much of the domestic comfort, peace, and happiness of the Army Medical Officers. I think it also a pity that he could not have consented to proposals which would cost nothing. It is a common thing to say that doctors in these days do not want titles.

That is all very well for civilians, but in military life there are a great many questions such as that of the choice of quarters in which some kind of rank is absolutely necessary. The Army Medical Department, by a very largo majority, have said that they want some kind of compound title. I know that a few of the old military officers do not desire to have such a title, but they have had no experience of the rank-and-file life of the doctor of to-day, I do not know why the Government should be so much afraid of giving some kind of title to the doctor if he wants it —it cannot do them any harm, and it may do him some good. You have something of the kind in the title of surgeon general and surgeon major. I do not know why, when the medical officers want these titles, they cannot have them. Two or three countries have already adopted them—notably America—and I think that feeling in France is now tending-in that direction. In America the system works uncommonly well, and has placed the Army Medical Department on a firm and satisfactory basis. I am afraid there is still too much jealousy on the part of the combatant branch of the Service towards doctors. The hostility of the right hon. Gentleman's advisers to the Medical Department seems to be so great that I believe he has not ventured to place on the Table 'the evidence on which the Report of the Committee was based.

 MR. E. STANHOPE

I think it better that I should reserve my remarks until the hon. Gentleman raises the question in Committee. I may, however, just refer to one point. He says I have not put the evidence on the Table. Anyone can have the evidence, and I believe the hon. Member himself has got it; but I did not think it necessary to put the House to the expense of printing it.

 DR. FARQUHARSON

The right hon. Gentleman has kindly given me the evidence, but it has been given to me in strict confidence. The information on which my remarks were based was derived from other sources.

 DR. CLARK (Caithness)

I think my hon. Friend has been well advised in treating us to this preliminary skirmish, and I trust that when we come to the main battle we shall hear the right hon. Gentleman's views about the Report. I suppose my hon. Friend will move the reduction of the right hon. Gentleman's salary, because the right hon. Gentleman himself is responsible for what has occurred. It seems to me quite plain that the medical officers are unjustly used, inasmuch as they have a longer time of foreign service than military officers, and are obliged to have a greater amount of sick leave. As the result of that you have got no efficiency in the Medical Service; as a result you have the mortality among the medical officers 33 per cent. higher than among other officers, a result, I think, very serious. It arises from not giving these officers the same leave, and from giving them longer foreign service than other officers, and so you are killing off your medical officers at the rate of a third more than others. Surely it is time this loss of life should cease. With the other matter to which I wish to allude, there is no doubt sentiment associated, though it is not that entirely. The right  hon. Gentleman has abolished relative rank and has degraded the position of medical officers in the Army. This is not merely a sentimental grievance, because when you abolish relative rank you abolish certain privileges and advantages that attended that rank in quarters. Perhaps if we give him sufficient evidence the right hon. Gentleman may be induced to change his mind if it is desired, and that medical officers do desire it is unquestioned. In the Departmental Committee of eight there were five of them in favour of granting the rank, only one medical expert being on the other side with

PART SEVEN TO FOLLOW

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Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:12:18 PM
PART SEVEN AND FINAL PART ;D

VOLUNTEER EQUIPMENTS.

HC Deb 13 March 1890 vol 342 cc727-64 727

the hon. Member for North Islington (Mr. Bartley), and a gallant Admiral. If there is no such desire in the Navy that is no reason why it should not exist in the Army. I hope we shall be able to get something more satisfactory from the right hon. Gentleman. We have got this Committee, and witnesses have proved to the hilt all the statements of my hon. Friend; the Committee have reported in our favour, and still the right hon. Gentleman persists in his course. We shall want good reasons why he does this. You will not get the same class of men as heretofore; you will have the Service boycotted by the profession; you will only get the riff-raff of the profession to enter the Army Medical Service. I trust the right hon. Gentleman may be induced to re-consider his position and not persist in defiance of the feeling of the profession.
 
 MAJOR RASCH (Essex, S.E.)

I am well aware that discussion at this moment is deprecated by the Front Bench; and I will occupy only a few moments on a subject to which I would direct the right hon. Gentleman's attention, and perhaps he will give some reply when the particular Vote comes on in Committee. I refer to the rations allowed to the private soldier. On joining the Service the recruit is informed that his rations will be provided free, but he soon discovers that his free rations are limited to one pound of bread and three-quarters of a pound— which is, practically, half a pound—of meat a day. Now, the work of a private soldier in a cavalry regiment is severe. He is up at half-past 5 in the morning, and with stable work, dull gymnasium, and school, there is an amount of work for which the rations supplied are quite insufficient. It may be as I have asid, heard it said before, that the rations a soldier gets are more than, as a rule, the agricultural labourer gets; and to a certain extent that is true, but the agricultural labourers gets quantity if he does not get quality. Bacon and. broad, it may be said, he gets to any quantity he requires. But the soldier does not get sufficient for the work lie has to do.

A recruit in good working condition, by the time he has had his breakfast and his dinner, has got through his rations, and so has nothing to eat from 2 o'clock in the day until 7.30 the next morning. The result is, he goes to the canteen and fills himself with indifferent beer; presently he gets drunk, is put into the guard-room, and returned inefficient for a certain number of days. I commend this to the notice of hon. Gentlemen opposite anxious to encourage temperance—that the best way to decrease drinking among the soldiers is to feed them better, and, in the end, you will find it cheaper. You have now, while you half starve a soldier, to offer every inducement to recruits in the way of bounty, pay, and pensions; but make the men more comfortable, and you will find tin; aggregate cost will be less. I am the more tempted to bring this matter under the notice of the right hon. Gentleman, because since he has been in office the right hon. Gentleman has done his best to improve the position and to add to the comfort of the private soldier.

 MR. MAC NEILL (Donegal, S.)

Perhaps I may offer the hon. and gallant Gentleman a statement of a Minister that has some bearing on the point lie has raised. The British soldier is underfed, according to the hon. and gallant Gentleman, and may be that is so, for I may remind him that it is considered necessary to increase his rations when he is engaged in battering down the houses of the Irish tenantry.

Here is a question that was put to the Secretary for War by the Tory Member for East Antrim (Captain M'Calmont) on May 17 last year, whether he (the Secretary for War) would be prepared to sanction the granting of special allowances to the troops employed for months in aid of the Civil Power in the County of Donegal. This is the answer of the Financial Secretary—  The troops in question have had an additional meat ration. No further special allowance is contemplated. It seems, therefore, that the claim to additional rations is admitted when the troops are engaged upon the duty of stirring up civil strife. But I will defer more specific remarks upon this point until we reach the Vote in Committee. What I now wish to do is to turn attention to the position and status of Army Chaplains, and though, through being away, I have not been able to give notice of my intention, the right hon. Gentleman opposite will have had some intimation that the matter would be raised from the questions I have on previous occasions addressed to him. I have pointed out how a great diminution of expenditure would be effected by giving to the parochial clergy, both here and in Ireland, some small addition to their incomes if they undertake the spiritual care of soldiers in their parish. If he has studied the question the right hon.

 Gentleman will recollect that Army Chaplains for home camps and garrisons are comparatively a new invention. The institution of Army Chaplains was for the purpose of providing for soldiers going abroad that spiritual advice which otherwise they might be unable to have. But the system has been developed, and we now have Army Chaplains at home. I believe there are 88 Army Chaplaincies on the Estimates now; and my suggestion is that these Army Chaplains should— having regard, of course, to vested interest?—be superseded by parochial clergy wherever the latter are ready and willing to do duty. By this means you will effect an enormous saving in expenditure under this head. Moreover, as I am informed by officers, and I can well understand that it should be so, soldiers will derive more advantage from the ministrations of the local clergy than from the official Chaplains, who have, more or less, the status of officers, and between whom and the men there cannot be that easy, respectful familiarity which should exist between a pastor and his flock. I speak in the interest of a body of men with whom personally, perhaps, I have little favour, but whom I respect and esteem —the Irish Protestant, clergy.

The right hon. Gentleman will I remember that, as regards the Catholic clergy, the Bishops declined to entertain the idea. On a former occasion the right hon. Gentleman said that if I could show him that, in my view, I had the approval of the heads of the Established Church he would consider whether he could not make this arrangement for Army Chaplaincies at, of course, a reduced expenditure, availing himself of the services of the parochial clergy of the Church of Ireland. I am now happy to tell him that, having met the Archbishop of Dublin, his Grace, in the course of conversation, said that he also had had his attention directed to this subject and that he cordially approved of the proposal. His Grace is, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, a temporal Peer, and he said he would do his best by his influence in another place to facilitate any efforts here. Without going into particulars, I may state that out of those 88 chaplaincies I have mentioned, and which entail an expenditure of £57,000 a year, there are eight in Ireland costing £9,500 a year. They have large pay and retiring allowances. The Irish clergy now in possession of cures would do the work of these chaplains, and consider themselves well paid for £2,000 a year. It happens that all the stations to which these eight chaplains are appointed are in the diocese of Dublin, and under the jurisdiction of the Prelate whose sanction I have referred to.

Of all persons in Ireland the clergy, who are supporters of the present Administration, least deserve to suffer under any sense of wrong from the action of the present Government. It is strange that they should find an advocate in a political opponent like myself; but I have the greater pleasure in supporting their case, because the two Members who may be considered as specially representatives of their interests —the two Members for Dublin University, —owing to their position on the Treasury Bench, are debarred from taking action. It is a question of long standing. It was brought before the present Attorney General for Ireland by his constituents in the University, and it was threatened that if he would not give a pledge to look after the interests of the Protestant clergy they would start a candidate of their own against the Government candidate. On July 2, 1887, a letter was addressed to the present Attorney General for Ireland by one of his constituents, in which it was remarked that up to that time their Representative had done nothing for the Irish clergy who elected him— too busy, I suppose, in preparing legal answers for his chief—and that this would be a proper subject for comment at the next Election. On the same day the right hon. Gentleman replied, saying he would give immediate attention to the questions referred to if elected; and, though he could not hope to have much influence, such as he had should be exercised. Has he exercised any influence? Is it not a deplorable position for the Irish clergy when they have to accept aid, willingly given, from a political opponent? I certainly think Trinity College, Dublin, has a strong claim upon the Government. They should recollect that two-thirds of the electorate are members of the Irish Church, and that they provide a ready means by which the Government are supplied with a constant succession of Law Officers in this House. I may ask, I think, for the redemption of the pledge, that if I can show the consent and approval of the heads of the Church, my proposition should be favour ably considered. I have that approval. I can show that there would be a saving of some £6,000 a year, that a material benefit would be conferred on the clergy, and that the change would be in accordance with a strong feeling in the Army.
 
 MR. W. H. SMITH

My right hon. Friend cannot respond now, he having exhausted his right to speak, but he will refer to this question when the Vote is reached in Committee.

 Question put, and agreed to.

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THE END  ;)
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:13:11 PM
THE MANCHESTER REGIMENT AT TIPPERARY.

HC Deb 13 February 1891 vol 350 cc607-8 607

 MR. JOHN O'CONNOR (Tipperary, S.)

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that the colonel commanding the 1st Manchester Regiment, stationed in Tipperary, issued orders to the men of the regiment that they were not to partake of any refreshment in the house of John A. Carew, grocer and spirit merchant of that town; that on the 4th inst. two soldiers, having entered the premises of Mr. Carew. they were placed under arrest, stripped of their belts, and put under charge of the picket, but subsequently released because of their ignorance of the Regimental Order; whether any charge of misconduct has ever been brought against Mr. Carew in the management of his house; and what is the reason for Mr. Carew's house being forbidden by the Military Authorities?

 MR. E. STANHOPE

The officer commanding the 1st Battalion Manchester Regiment did forbid his men to enter the house of J. A. Carew; but it is not the fact that two men were arrested on the 4th inst. for disobeying the Order.

 MR. J. O'CONNOR

The right hon. Gentleman has not answered the questions in the third and fourth paragraphs. Is he aware that during the past two years men have in Tipperary been sent to prison nearly every week for what is known as boycotting there?

 MR. E. STANHOPE

I am not aware of that fact. As to the questions contained in the third and fourth paragraphs, if the hon. Member will give me time I will try and get the information asked for. All I know at present is that 608 the colonel decided, after full consideration with the Local Authorities, to take this step; but I do not know the reason.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:13:54 PM
UPDATE TO THE ONE ABOVE.

THE 1ST MANCHESTER REGIMENT.

HC Deb 19 February 1891 vol 350 cc1076-8 1076

 MR. JOHN O'CONNOR (Tipperary, S.)

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the War Department whether he is aware that the Colonel commanding the 1st Manchester Regiment, stationed in 1077 Tipperary, issued orders to the men of the regiment that they were not to partake of any refreshment in the house of John A. Carew, grocer and spirit merchant of that town; that on the 4th instant, two soldiers, having entered the premises of Mr. Carew, they were placed under arrest, stripped of their belts, and put under charge of the picket, but subsequently released because of their ignorance of the Regimental Orders; whether any charge of misconduct has ever been brought against Mr. Carew in the management of his house; and what is the reason for Mr. Carew's house being forbidden by the Military Authorities?

 COLONEL WARING (Down, N.)

May I ask whether the Order issued by the Commanding Officer in question is not strictly within his power, and whether it would be conducive to good order and discipline to interfere with his discretion in such matters?

 MR. E. STANHOPE

As I have already stated, the Commanding Officer of the 1st Manchester Regiment did forbid his men to resort to the house of Mr. J. A. Carew in Tipperary; but I am informed that the soldiers were not arrested under the circumstances alleged in the question. In reply to the question of the hon. and gallant Member (Colonel Waring), it is within the province of any Commanding Officer to forbid any soldier from visiting any particular house in the locality if their so doing would, in his opinion, be injurious to discipline. The officer in command of the Manchester Regiment has simply exercised this power.

 MR. J. O'CONNOR

Would it not be fair for the right hon. Gentleman to give me and the House some information as to the reason why this house was forbidden to the Manchester Regiment? Does not the right hon. Gentleman consider it rather a slur upon Mr. Carew as to the management of his house? Mr. Carew desires, through me, to say that he challenges any investigation with regard to his conduct. I want to know also whether the two men in question were not put under arrest by Sergeant O'Brien, and whether the right hon. Gentleman will receive affidavits or statements made by several men who were present, and who witnessed the two men being placed under arrest?
 
 MR. E. STANHOPE

I decline altogether to go beyond the discretion of the commanding officer. That discretion was vested in him. If the hon. Member thinks it worth while to send me affidavits I will look into them. I believe the commanding officer exercised his discretion in the matter.


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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:14:23 PM
MEDICAL GRADING.

HC Deb 04 July 1918 vol 107 cc1867-8W 1867W

 Mr. SNOWDEN
 
asked the Undersecretary of State for War if he will have immediate attention given to the way in which the men of the 6th Manchester Regiment, Cowshott Camp, Brookwood, Surrey, recently transferred from the East Lancashire Regiment, and who are B2 and B3 men, are being passed by the medical officer, the men being simply marched past the medical officer in fours and passed then as fit; and will he see that all these men are given a thorough examination before being graded?

 Mr. MACPHERSON

As I informed my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley on Tuesday last, I am making inquiries into1868W this matter. I regret that these inquiries are not yet complete, but I will write to my hon. Friend as soon as possible.

 Mr. JOWETT

asked the Minister of National Service how many appeals have been made on the ground of wrong grading as to medical fitness for military service at the West Hiding of Yorkshire Appeal Court; and how many of such appeals have been granted?

 Mr. BECK
 
The necessary information regarding the West Riding Appeal Tribunal is not available, but the following are the figures in respect of all Appeal Tribunals in the Yorkshire Region during the period 9th March, 1918 to. 29th June, 1918, inclusive: Number of applications made to an Appeal Tribunal in the Yorkshire Region for re-examination by the medical assessors, 1,472, of which 252 cases have not yet been heard. Number of appeals allowed, 283. It is not known in how many of these "appeals allowed" the medical assessors have altered the grading.

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Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:14:50 PM
ARMY FOOD SUPPLIES.

HC Deb 13 May 1915 vol 71 cc1817-8 1817

 Mr. HODGE

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that complaints are reaching the parents of soldiers of one of the Manchester regiments in training at Grantham as to the quality and lack of quantity of food supplies; and can he state whether the supply of food is in the hands of a contractor?

Mr. BAKER

I understand that information to this effect has been received from 1818 a newspaper; the General Officer Commanding, however, reports that he has received no complaints and that the supply services at the camp are well administered. The supply is not in the hands of a contractor. The food is of the best quality and is supplied from Government store

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Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:15:28 PM
VOLUNTEERS (PROFICIENCY PAY).

HC Deb 28 June 1915 vol 72 c1475W 1475W

 Mr. NEEDHAM
asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether his attention had been drawn to the fact that forty-seven soldiers in the 8th Manchester Regiment who served in the Volunteer Force for many years are denied the proficiency pay of 3d. a day; and whether he will reconsider the decision under which their service in the Volunteer Force is regarded as not qualifying for proficiency pay?

 Mr. FORSTER

There is nothing exceptional in this case. Under existing regulations service in the Volunteers does not qualify for proficiency pay. The question whether it should be allowed to do so is being considered afresh, but the hon. Member must not take this as holding out any great hope of a change.

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Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:15:59 PM
MANCHESTER REGIMENT (PRIVATE A. W. WHITTAKER).

HC Deb 03 June 1919 vol 116 cc1804-5 1804

 Lieut.-Colonel DALRYMPLE-WHITE

asked the Secretary of State for War if the presumed death in action of Private Arnold D. Whittaker, No. 250927, l/6th Manchester Regiment, who was reported as wounded and missing on 25th March, 1918, cannot" now be officially con-firmed; whether he is aware that this man's father has repeatedly written to the War Office on the subject without receiving a reply; and what is the cause of the delay in this case and similar cases?

Mr. CHURCHILL

I am informed that Private Whittaker was reported wounded and missing on 25th March, 1918, but death has not been presumed officially owing to certain evidence having been submitted showing that he was killed. This evidence, which has been under examination, has now been verified. The death of the man is accordingly being accepted, and the next-of-kin will in due course receive the usual formal notice. The delay in notifying Private Whittaker's father is regretted. It was due, I understand, to the receipt of a large mass of information giving details as to the fate of many soldiers, and all of this required careful examination and consequent investigation.

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Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:17:04 PM
1ST BATTALION MANCHESTER REGIMENT (PAY).

HC Deb 17 March 1919 vol 113 c1750W 1750W
 
 Major HURST

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will inquire if the men of the 1st Battalion Manchester Regiment, Palestine, received any pay during the seven weeks expiring 26th February, 1919;and whether, if no pay was received by them in that period, he will direct that the men in question are paid more frequently in future?

 Mr. CHURCHILL

Inquiries are being made, and I will let my hon. and gallant Friend know the result.


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Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:18:30 PM
ALTCAR CAMP (FOOD AND SLEEPING ACCOMMODATION).

HC Deb 18 May 1916 vol 82 cc1649-50 1649 1650

 Sir F. CAWLEY

asked the Undersecretary of State for War whether he is aware that the troops at the Altcar camp are complaining of both the quality and quantity of the food supplied to them, also that the sleeping accommodation is quite inadequate; and will he state how many deaths have taken place at this camp in the Reserved Manchester Regiment since they left Southport on 19th April, and the cause of the same?

 Mr. TENNANT

I have made careful inquiry and I find that no complaints about food or about accommodation at this camp have been received. One death, the cause of which was heart failure, occurred in the 13th Reserve Battalion South Lancashire Regiment after it left Southport for Altcar, but no deaths have taken place in the Manchester battalion.

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Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:19:01 PM
INOCULATION AGAINST DISEASE.

HC Deb 04 February 1915 vol 69 cc139-40 139

 Sir HAROLD ELVERSTON

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that Colonel Davies-Colley, of the 6th Reserve Manchester Regiment, recently issued instructions that all the men in the regiment must be inoculated against typhoid, and that if any objected force must be used to carry out the instruction; that on the 21st or 22nd January six men, who refused to be inoculated, were brought before Colonel Davies-Colley, who sent them to the doctor under escort; and that whilst an attempt was being made to forcibly inoculate one man Four others escaped and interviewed the brigade officer; whether proper official notice has been taken of the action of Colonel Davies-Colley; and what steps will be taken to prevent further improper instructions being issued by this officer?
 
 Mr. TENNANT
 
No, Sir. My attention has not been drawn to this case and no action has been taken with regard to it by the War Office. If any incorrect instructions have been issued, I have no doubt that the general officer commanding would take suitable notice.

 Mr. LAURENCE HARDY
 
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he is aware of the campaign which is in existence for the purpose of discouraging our soldiers in the New Armies from being inoculated against enteric and other similar diseases; whether, in view of the statistics in support of inoculation, as shown during the present War, measures will be at once taken against any organisation which carries on such an agitation; and whether he will consider if the time has now come when inoculation should be made compulsory for all soldiers proceeding to the front on active service, both for their own sakes and those with whom they are in contact?

 Mr. PETO

asked whether inoculation against typhoid fever and vaccination against small-pox will, in future, be compulsory for all ranks in the military forces of the Crown before they are sent on service oversea during the currency of the present War?

 Mr. TENNANT
 
The answer to the first point is in the affirmative, and to the second that it is not proposed to take any action against the organisations referred to. As regards compulsion, I am advised that legislation would be necessary. The introduction of a Bill is not at present contemplated, though this may be further considered should necessity arise.
 
Mr. CHANCELLOR

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that the introduction of such a Bill now would be a breach of contract with the recruits who have joined the Army, and would involve deep dishonour?

 Mr. TENNANT

I do not agree with that.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:19:50 PM
OBSERVATIONS.

HC Deb 09 August 1859 vol 155 cc1274-5 1274

 MR. JOHN LOCKE
 
said, he rose to call the attention of the House to the case of enlistment, in Her Majesty's 96th Regiment of Foot, of the late Private James Caulfield, who, when under 15 years of age, was enlisted in that regiment at Westminster, on the 23rd of September, 1857; and, his discharge having been refused, he died from the rigours of discipline, at Park-hurst Hospital on the 21st of July, 1858.

But for the lateness of the Session, he would have asked for a Select Committee. 1275 He was induced to take up the matter in consequence of the petition of John Caulfield, the father of the deceased, and the representations of several respectable individuals, who took au interest in the matter, and certainly it did furnish an instance to show the necessity of keeping a watchful eye over the system employed for recruiting the army. It appeared that the deceased James Caulfield, being under 15 years of age, had been enlisted by a Sergeant Thomas.

 MR. SPEAKER

said, he must remind the hon. Member that he could not make a statement unless he intended to conclude with a Motion.

 MR. JOHN LOCKE

said, he would then conclude by moving for a Select Committee. The petitioner complained that his son, being under 15 years of age, had been enlisted by Sergeant Thomas for the 96th Regiment of Foot, the latter making to the magistrate a representation that the youth was 18 years of age, under which age his enlistment would have been illegal. The mother was subsequently prevented by Sergeant Thomas from proving her son's real age, and Sergeant Thomas was also accused of having represented to the boy that he would have 1s. 3d. a day and free rations.

Young Caulfield was sent to the regiment in the Isle of Wight, where the labour of a private soldier proved too much for his tender age. He fell ill and a representation having been made of his condition by a private in the regiment to the lad's father, the latter applied for his discharge, but was put off on various grounds, and in the meantime the boy, who had been removed to Parkhurst, died from the effect of the toil and labour to which he had been exposed.
 
 Notice taken, that Forty Members were not present: House counted; and Forty Members not being present,
 
 House was adjourned at a quarter before Seven o'clock.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:21:14 PM
Bonus week ;D

2ND MANCHESTER REGIMENT (LANCE-CORPORAL W. MOORE).

HC Deb 10 December 1920 vol 135 c2621W 2621W

 Mr. ALLEN PARKINSON

asked the Minister of Pensions if he is aware that the parents of Lance-Corporal William Moore, No. 89029, 2nd Manchesters, who was reported missing on 24th July, 1920. while serving in Mesopotamia, have no yet received any further information con firming his death or otherwise; whether he is aware that the separation allowance was reduced to 7s. 6d. per week on 5th October, 1920; and if, in view of the fact that both his father and mother are invalids with five children dependent upon them for support, he will have the case reviewed and, if possible, a larger pension awarded?

 Major TRYON

I regret that I have not yet been able to ascertain all the facts in this case, but I hope to be in a position to write fully to my hon. Friend at an early date.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman

Up date from Mack 28/Jun/2017

hiya neil
89029 was his WW1 number before they issued the 7 digit numbers,his new number was 3513734 William moore,killed on 24th july

he lived at 78 new fold wigan

mack ;D
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:35:02 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)


FEMALE DEPENDANTS.

HC Deb 10 December 1920 vol 135 c2621W 2621W
 
Mr. ALFRED DAVIES (Clitheroe)
asked the Minister of Pensions whether in the case of a widower who is in receipt of a pension for the loss of a son and marries a widow who is also in receipt of a pension for the loss of a son they will forfeit their pensions?
 Major TRYON
The Royal Warrant provides that pensions granted to female dependants shall cease on marriage or re marriage, though a gratuity is in such event allowed equal in amount to 26 weeks' pension at the rate provided by the 1918 Warrant in liquidation of the State's liability.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman

Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:35:26 PM
TERRITORIAL ASSOCIATIONS (PENSIONS).

HC Deb 10 December 1920 vol 135 c2622W 2622W
 
 Lieut.-Colonel CAMPION
asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the War Office whether, in considering the question of reassessment for pensions of secretaries of Territorial associations, he will also, consider the case of other ranks who are pensioners and are employed by Territorial associations.
 Sir A. WILLIAMSON
Yes, Sir; the case of other ranks will also be considered. I can, however, make no promise of a favourable decision at this stage.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:35:52 PM
PRE-WAR PENSIONS (REASSESSMENT).

HC Deb 10 December 1920 vol 135 cc2621-2W 2622W
 
 Brigadier-General WIGAN
asked the Secretary of State for War why pre-War pensioners who were civilian subordinates of the Army, and were compulsorily re tained in such employment, should not have their pensions reassessed and be granted the same gratuity as enlisted men performing the same work?

 Sir A. WILLIAMSON
Reassessment of pension is limited by the Royal Warrant to men who gave satisfactory re-enlisted service. As stated in answer to numerous questions in this House, I regret it is not possible to depart from the general rule.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:36:21 PM
GALLIPOLI (CASUALTIES).

HC Deb 14 October 1915 vol 74 cc1494-5W 1494W

 Mr. OUTHWAITE
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War (1) whether he can state the casualties in Gallipoli; and (2) the casualties of the Australian and of the New Zealand forces in Gallipoli?
1495W
 Mr. TENNANT
I will answer this question and the next together. The casualties in the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force up to the 9th October are:—
   Officers.   Other Banks.
Killed or died of wounds   1,185   17,772
Wounded   2,632   60,220
Missing   383   8,707
   4,200   92,699
Total   96,899   
Of these, the casualties in the Australian and New Zealand forces are as follows:—
   Officers.   Other Ranks
Killed or died of wounds   335   5,664
Wounded   814   20,180
Missing   52   2,076
   1,201   27,920
Total   29,121   

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:37:25 PM
NAVAL AND MILITARY PENSIONS AND GRANTS.

HC Deb 15 July 1918 vol 108 cc725-6W 725W

 Mr. SNOWDEN
asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office if he will inquire into the amount of pay and allowance now being given on account of Private H. Burns, No. 277580, 2/7th Manchester Regiment, who is now home out of hospital pending the fitting of an artificial foot, and who is being paid 11s. 1d. a week for Army pay and ration money and 9s. 4d. separation allowance for his wife; and, as this amount appears to be inadequate, will he see that this man is paid the sums to which he is entitled?

 Mr. FORSTER
Inquiries are being made into this case, and I will acquaint the hon. Member of the result in due course.

 Sir H. GREENWOOD
asked the Pensions Minister whether he can amend the Rule granting 2s. 6d. a week extra to recipients of the special campaign pension so as to make the increase apply to men over the age of seventy who are for some reason or other not eligible for the old age pension on attaining that age?

 Mr. FORSTER
No, Sir; the 2s. 6d. corresponds to the extra 2s. 6d. given to old age pensioners, and I fear I cannot adopt my hon. and gallant Friend's suggestion.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:37:52 PM
HOME GUARD.

HC Deb 25 July 1940 vol 363 cc1007-8W 1007W
 
 Mr. Ammon
asked the Secretary of State for War why his promise that Mr. Jack Ward, V.C., would be reinstated in the Manchester Local Defence Volunteers has not been implemented?

 Sir E. Grigg
The extent to which the existing rule should be modified has been under consideration, and it has now been decided that an applicant whose father was not a British subject may be enrolled if he served in His Majesty's armed forces in the war 1914–18, or has satisfactorily completed a period of not less than three years on full pay in His Majesty's regular1008W forces. In no circumstances will an applicant be enrolled if, in addition to British nationality, he possesses German, Austrian or Italian nationality. Instructions to this effect will be issued shortly, and the question of Mr. Jack White's reinstatement will be dealt with accordingly.

 Sir F. Fremantle
asked the Secretary of State for War what arrangement is made for the medical care and treatment of men of the Home Guard when, on duty; and whether he has considered an offer by the secretary of the Central Medical War Committee to ask civil practitioners to undertake this duty as their contribution to home defence?

 Sir E. Grigg
Free medical care and treatment is provided for men of the Home Guard when on duty. It is proposed to take full advantage of the generous offer made by the Central Medical War Committee, for which my right hon. Friend is most grateful.

 Mr. Silkin
asked the Secretary of State for War whether a natural-born British subject, the son of non-enemy un-naturalised aliens, is eligible for membership of the Local Defence Volunteers?

 Mr. Eden
I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer given to-day to my hon. Friend the Member for Camberwell, North (Mr. Ammon).

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment (1-100)
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 05:38:33 PM
NAVAL AND MILITARY PENSIONS AND GRANTS.

HC Deb 20 November 1918 vol 110 cc3446-8W 3446W

 Sir J. D. REES
asked the Under-secretary of State for War whether he is aware that the wife of Private A. Fisher, 2nd Northumberland Fusiliers, has received no allowances though her husband has served over three and a half years, although application has been made to the War Office, the Pensions Department, and the paymaster at York?

 Mr. FORSTER
Separation allowance is not issuable for Mrs. Fisher as she was separated from and not supported by her husband prior to his enlistment, but allowance at the motherless rate is in issue for the child of the marriage.

 Mr. SNOWDEN
asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office if he will 3447W accelerate the decision in the appeal case for separation allowance of Miss M. Westhead, 5, Adelaide Street, Blackburn, dependant of Private G. Westhead, No. 97440, 52nd Grad. Battalion, Manchester Regiment?

 Mr. FORSTER
I will cause inquiry to be made, and let the hon. Member know the result.

 Colonel ASHLEY
asked the Pensions Minister whether he will consider the issue of a definite order directing local war pensions committees to pay the bonus due to a discharged man on completion of a course of training without any delay in cases where the committees are unable to find employment for him, and where his pension is insufficient to support him?

 Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN
Local war pensions committees have already been given definite instructions to pay the bonus in all cases immediately on the completion of the course. I am sending the hon. and gallant Member a copy of the Instructions.

 Mr. SNOWDEN
asked the Pensions Minister if there is a special attendance grant in cases where a discharged soldier in receipt of the full disability pension requires someone constantly in attendance upon him; if this grant is made through the local war pensions committee; and, in view of the fact that the local war pensions committees do not appear to be aware of this regulation, will he call their attention to it?

 Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN
A totally disabled soldier requiring a constant attendant may be granted a special allowance of an amount not exceeding 20s. a week. The award is made by the Soldiers Awards Branch, at Chelsea, on the recommendation of the local committees (or in blind cases, "St. Dunstan's"), who investigate the circumstances of the case, and report as to the amount which in their opinion should be granted. The local committees have had very definite instructions as to the principles which should guide them in making their recommendations, and I do not consider that any reminder is necessary.

 Mr. SNOWDEN
asked the Pensions Minister why the pension case of Private J. Davey, No. 6072, Loyal North Lancashires, has not been settled, seeing that this man has been missing since September, 1914, and the War Office,  by letter dated 28th September, 1915, said that steps were being taken to presume his death; and will he say why a delay of three years took place before the Minister of Pensions sent the form to the late soldier's mother?

 Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN
This case appears only now to have been brought to the notice of my Department. I am in communication with the regimental-paymaster and I will see that the case is speedily settled.

 Mr. G. LAMBERT
asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office if he has reconsidered the question of allowances to the wives of agricultural soldier substitutes?

 Mr. FORSTER
I regret that it has not been found possible to reverse the decision that separation allowance cannot be paid in these cases.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 07:40:32 PM
One of the pages from the 7th Manchester sentry newspaper, Printed in Egypt


 'This item is from The First World War Poetry Digital Archive, University of Oxford © [Copyright notice]'.

Anyone is entitled to use the material for Educational Purposes (means for the purpose of education, teaching, distance learning, private study and/or research) but not for Commercial Purposes (i.e. selling or reselling the material or using it for any commercial gain).

 Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 07:41:28 PM
Page two from the 7th Manchester sentry newspaper,

'This item is from The First World War Poetry Digital Archive, University of Oxford © [Copyright notice]'.

Anyone is entitled to use the material for Educational Purposes (means for the purpose of education, teaching, distance learning, private study and/or research) but not for Commercial Purposes (i.e. selling or reselling the material or using it for any commercial gain).

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 07:42:10 PM
Page three from the 7th Manchester sentry newspaper,

'This item is from The First World War Poetry Digital Archive, University of Oxford © [Copyright notice]'.

Anyone is entitled to use the material for Educational Purposes (means for the purpose of education, teaching, distance learning, private study and/or research) but not for Commercial Purposes (i.e. selling or reselling the material or using it for any commercial gain).

 Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 07:42:52 PM
Page four from the 7th Manchester sentry newspaper,

'This item is from The First World War Poetry Digital Archive, University of Oxford © [Copyright notice]'.

Anyone is entitled to use the material for Educational Purposes (means for the purpose of education, teaching, distance learning, private study and/or research) but not for Commercial Purposes (i.e. selling or reselling the material or using it for any commercial gain).

 Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 07:47:46 PM
Title    
The 2/7th Manchesters
Author    
Unknown
Notes    
Coming down Menin Road from the trenches.
Item date    
27th December 1917
Creation place    
Menin Road, near Ypres, Belgium

The 2/7thBn 27th December 1917 on the Menin Road near Ypres Belgium


'This item is from The First World War Poetry Digital Archive, University of Oxford © [Copyright notice]'.

Anyone is entitled to use the material for Educational Purposes (means for the purpose of education, teaching, distance learning, private study and/or research) but not for Commercial Purposes (i.e. selling or reselling the material or using it for any commercial gain).

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 07:49:04 PM
This account comes from the history of “The Seventh Manchester’s July 1916 to March 1919 By Captain S. J. Wilson, M.C.”

This book along with the other 7thBn book With Manchester's in the East are avaliable as free downloads.

As far as the 7th was concerned November 6th was one of the most miserable and trying days ever experienced. In the middle of the morning we arrived at our position, where we stayed during the whole of the day in a bitterly cold rain with no possibility of shelter. When it was ascertained that the enemy had been dislodged we made a few fires and tried to restore life to our numbed bodies. The divisional commander, having seen our condition, and realising that very few in the brigade would be fit for fighting after two such days, ordered up the 125th brigade, who had had an opportunity of getting dry and warm. We marched joyfully back in the middle of the night to Le Carnoy and there spent two days in billets.

The advance of the 42nd was now rapid. Hautmont, a fairly large manufacturing town, was captured after street fighting, and by the evening of November 9th an outpost line had been established south-east of Maubeuge. The 7th meanwhile had marched up through the forest and were billeted in the small village of Vieux Mesnil.

Here we received official orders to stand fast on the morning of November 11th. At 11 a.m. the battalion paraded outside the church and there the bugles sounded "Cease fire" for the first and last time during the War. The men took the news very quietly. We were too close to actual events to give ourselves over to the mad demonstrations of joy such as took place in spots more remote. At the same time everyone experienced a curious feeling of calm satisfaction that an unpleasant task had been accomplished. The 42nd division had taken part in two great drives, the clearing of the Turk from British territory in 1916 and the clearing of the Hun from allied territory in 1918.”

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 07:49:45 PM
CENTRAL CHANCERY OF THE ORDERS OF KNIGHTHOOD.
St.  James's Palace, S.W.I.
12th September,  1946.
The KING has been graciously pleased to give orders for the following appointments to the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, in recognition of gallant and distinguished services while prisoners of war: —
To be Additional Officers of the. Military Division of the said Most Excellent Order: —

Lieutenant-Colonel Edward Barclay Holmes, M.C. (5904), The Manchester Regiment.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 08:53:37 PM
Captain Richard William Leslie Wain

Lt. (A/Capt.) Richard William Leslie Wain, V.C. 
25th. Bn. MANCHESTER REGT. att. to 'A' (LATER 1st.)  Bn. TANK CORPS
Richard William Leslie Wain was born on 5th December 1896 at 4 Victoria Square, Penarth, near Cardiff. He was the only son of Harris and Florence Emily Wain. The Wain family later resided at “Woodside”, the Avenue, Llandaff, Cardiff, his father being a Cardiff solicitor. He was educated at Llandaff Cathedral School and St. Bees School, Cumberland, where, in 1912 he joined the school OTC and was at camp when War was declared in 1914. In September of 1914, when he was 17 years old Richard Wain joined the 7th (Cyclist) Battalion of the Welsh Regiment (TF). In December of that year, he transferred to the 16th (Service) Battalion of the Middlesex Regiment (Public Schools). He was commissioned 2nd Lieutenant on 16 July 1915 and subsequently promoted to full Lieutenant a year later on 12 July 1916. Further promotion ensued with him being elevated to Acting Captain in November 1916. Wain served on the Western Front from March 1916 and was twice wounded. Because of his strong interest in mechanics and engineering, he then joined the Tank Corps. He was unmarried. At the time of his death he was with the 25th Battalion of the Manchester Regiment, attached to the ‘A’ (later designated 1st ) Battalion, Tank Corps. The account of his action is as follows:
During the Battle of Cambrai it was near the village of Marcoing where Capt. Wain, who was a section commander in ‘A’ Battalion, had gone into action in the tank of one of his lieutenants. When nearing the Hindenburg Support Line he spotted an enemy strong point which was holding up the advance of the infantry, and made straight for it. When almost on top a shell hit the tank and knocked it out completely. After the smoke and fumes had subsided Capt. Wain found of the whole crew only one remained alive, and he was in a terrible condition.
 Though seriously wounded himself, Wain crawled to the sponson door and looking out saw that the infantry were still being held up by the enemy strong point. He managed to find a Lewis gun and dashed from behind the tank and made straight for the strong point, firing as he ran. The Germans in the strong point, on seeing him bearing down upon them firing furiously at them, immediately  scattered. Half of them surrendered, the other half ran back, but Wain, his strength ebbing away, managed to find enough stamina to continue. Having used up all the ammunition in the Lewis gun he picked up a rifle that was lying nearby and fired at the retreating Germans until he himself was hit in the head by a bullet. The infantry had by this time moved forward, and stretcher bearers soon found Wain still assisting in the cleaning up of the strong point. His wounds were now streaming with blood and life was rapidly diminishing, but with an iron will refused to be attended to until he was satisfied the remaining Germans had been killed or had fled. He was taken to the dressing station but soon after died from his wounds. For this superhuman display of courage and resolution Wain was awarded the Victoria Cross. He was killed in the above action 20 November 1917.
 The Citation for this award from the London Gazette of 13th February, 1918 reads:
“For most conspicuous bravery in command of  section of Tanks. During an attack the tank in which he was, was disabled by a direct hit near an enemy strong point which was holding up the attack. Capt. Wain and one man, both seriously wounded, were the only survivors. Though bleeding profusely from his wounds, he rushed from behind the tank with a Lewis gun, and captured the strong point, taking about half the garrison  prisoners. Although his wounds were very serious he picked up a rifle and continued to fire at the retiring enemy until he received a fatal wound in the head. It was due to the valour displayed by Capt. Wain that the infantry were able to advance”.
Richard Wain is commemorated on the Llandaff War Memorial (Cathedral School Section), the Llandaff Cathedral War Memorial, the St. Bees School War Memorial and the Louverval Military Cemetery Memorial, Cambrai.


The Victor comic 1964

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 08:54:39 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)

The 63rd Foot was raised in 1757, the 96thFoot in 1824 and became the 1st & 2nd Battalions The Manchester Regiment in 1881
When first formed the badge was the city coat of arms but later the badge just had the plain fleur de leys which originated from the old 63rd Foot.
In 1942 the 1st Battalion was captured at the fall of Singapore, but a small party had departed earlier to England to form a new battalion to preserve the regiment, 370 men died in the POW camp.
The Colours are in Manchester Cathedral together with the memorials in the regimental chapel.
1958.09.01 amalgamated with 1st Bn, The King's Regiment (Liverpool), to form 1st Bn, The King's Regiment (Manchester and Liverpool)


Information found on this web site, British Armed Forces and National Service

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 09:08:07 PM
George Stuart Henderson
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

George Stuart Henderson VC DSO & Bar MC (5 December 1893-24 July 1920) was a Scottish recipient of the Victoria Cross, the highest and most prestigious award for gallantry in the face of the enemy that can be awarded to British and Commonwealth forces.

He was 26 years old, and a captain in the 2nd Battalion, The Manchester Regiment, British Army during the Arab Revolt, Mesopotamia when the following deed took place for which he was awarded the VC.
On 24 July 1920 near Hillah, Mesopotamia, Captain Henderson led his company in three charges against the enemy who had opened fire from the flank. At one time when the situation was extremely critical, the captain, by sheer pluck and coolness, steadied his command and prevented his company from being cut up. During the second charge he fell wounded but refused to leave his command and just as the company reached the trench, he was again wounded, this time mortally.

His Victoria Cross is displayed at the Museum of the King's Regiment in Liverpool, England.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 09:15:51 PM
Update to the above post that was originally posted on February 22, 2009

THE VICTORIA CROSS AWARDED TO CAPTAIN GEORGE STUART HENDERSON HAS BEEN LOANED TO THE MANCHESTER REGIMENT MUSEUM.
14 December 2009

The family of Captain George Stuart Henderson, 2nd Bn, The Manchester Regiment, have decided to loan his Victoria Cross medal group to The Manchester Regiment Museum located in Ashton-under-Lyne.

The VC group had previously been on loan to the The King's Regiment which was formed in 1968 from the amalgamation of the King's ( Liverpool ) Regiment and The Manchester Regiment. The Regimental Museum now displays six of the regiment's Victoria Cross groups.


Medal entitlement of Captain George Henderson,
2nd Bn, The Manchester Regiment

    Victoria Cross
    Distinguished Service Order ( DSO ) & Bar
    Military Cross ( MC )
    1914 Star + clasp "5th Aug-22nd Nov 1914"
    British War Medal ( 1914-20 )
    Victory Medal ( 1914-19 ) + MiD Oakleaf
    General Service Medal ( 1908-56 ) & MiD Oakleaf
        1 clasp: "Iraq"

[ London Gazette, 29 October 1920 ], For the award of the Victoria Cross, near Hillah, Mesopotamia ( Iraq ), 24 July 1920, Captain George Stuart Henderson DSO & Bar, MC, 2nd Bn, The Manchester Regiment.

    For most conspicuous bravery and self-sacrifice.

    On the evening of the 24th July 1920, when about fifteen miles from Hillah ( Mesopotamia ), the Company under his command was ordered to retire. After proceeding about 500 yards a large party of Arabs suddenly opened fire from the flank, causing the Company to split up and waver. Regardless of all danger, Capt. Henderson at once reorganised the Company, led them gallantly to the attack and drove off the enemy.

    On two further occasions this officer led his men to charge the Arabs with the bayonet and forced them to retire. At one time, when the situation was extremely critical and the troops and transport were getting out of hand, Capt. Henderson by sheer pluck and coolness, steadied his command, prevented the Company from being cut up, and saved the situation.

    During the second charge he fell wounded, but refused to leave his command, and just as the Company reached the trench they were making for he was again wounded. Realising that he could do no more, he asked one of his N.C.O.�s to hold him up on the embankment, saying "I�m done now, don�t let them beat you". He died fighting.

George Henderson's body was not recovered from the action and his name is engraved on the Basra Memorial, Iraq. Panel 31 / 64.

[ London Gazette, 3 July 1915 ], Awarded the Military Cross ( MC ), Near Ypres, Belgium, 26 April 1915, Lieutenant George Stuart Henderson, 1st Bn, The Manchester Regiment.

    Near Ypres on 26th April 1915, after his Company Commander had been wounded, he led his company up to within yards of the enemy's trenches with great gallantry and determination, and held on through several hours of daylight, and finally established himself there. Throughout the operations he set a fine example, after most of the senior officers had become casualties.

[ London Gazette, 31 May 1916 ], Created a Companion to the Distinguished Service Order ( DSO ), 8 March 1916, Lieutenant ( Temp. Captain ) George Stuart Henderson MC, 1st Bn, The Manchester Regiment.

    For conspicuous gallantry and determination in an attack on an enemy redoubt. On entering the redoubt he organised and led bombing parties which cleared out the enemy, of whom he personally shot five. He subsequently covered out withdrawal, and was one of the last to leave the redoubt.

[ London Gazette, 25 August 1917 ], Awarded a Bar to the Distinguished Service Order ( DSO ), Captain George Stuart Henderson DSO, MC, 1st Bn, The Manchester Regiment.

    For action on 9th January 1917

Timberman

Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 09:19:26 PM
From Find a Grave web site

George Stuart Henderson

Birth:       Dec. 5, 1893
Death:       Jul. 24, 1920
 
Arab Revolt (Mesopotamia) Victoria Cross Recipient. The Arabs, angered at what they perceived as their post-World War I betrayal by the Allies, as embodied in the Sykes-Picot Agreement which divided up the outer remnants of the former Ottoman Empire between France and Great Britain, rose up against the British occupiers, particularly administrators and civil servants. The conflict cost 2200 British and 10,000 Arab casualties before it was suppressed. Henderson was a native of East Gordon, Berwickshire, Scotland, and was serving as a captain with the 2nd Battalion of the Manchester Regiment when he performed the deeds for which he was awarded the VC.

From his citation:

"For most conspicuous bravery and self-sacrifice. On the evening of the 24th July, 1920, when about fifteen miles from Hillah (Mesopotamia), the Company under his command was ordered to retire. After proceeding about 500 yards a large party of Arabs suddenly opened fire from the flank, causing the Company to split up and waver. Regardless of all danger, Capt. Henderson at once reorganised the Company, led them gallantly to the attack and drove off the enemy. On two further occasions this officer led his men to charge the Arabs with the bayonet and forced them to retire. At one time, when the situation was extremely critical and the troops and transport were getting out of hand, Capt. Henderson by sheer pluck and coolness, steadied his command, prevented the Company from being cut up, and saved the situation. During the second charge he fell wounded, but refused to leave his command, and just as the Company reached the trench they were making for he was again wounded. Realising that he could do no more, he asked one of his N.C.O s to hold him up on the embankment, saying 'I'm done now, don't let them beat you.’. He died fighting." His body was not recovered.

His medals, including the Distinguished Service Order and Bar and the Military Cross,
are in the The King's Regiment Museum Collection at the Museum of Liverpool Life, Pier Head, Liverpool.

(bio by: Paul F. Wilson)

Burial::
Basra Memorial
Basra
Al Basrah, Iraq
Plot: No Known Grave; name is listed on Panel 31 and 64.



Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 09:27:08 PM
THE VICTORIA CROSS AWARDED TO PRIVATE ALFRED WILKINSON, 5TH BN, THE MANCHESTER REGIMENT, HAS BEEN SOLD AT AUCTION BY DIX NOONAN WEBB OF LONDON.

Medal entitlement of Private Alfred Wilkinson, 1/5th Bn, The Manchester Regiment


•   Victoria Cross
•   British War Medal ( 1914-20 )
•   Victory Medal ( 1914-19 )
•   King George VI Coronation Medal ( 1937 )
The Victoria Cross and WWI campaign medals awarded to Private Alfred Wilkinson of the Manchester Regiment, late Royal Scots Greys and Seaforth Highlanders, was sold at auction by Dix Noonan Webb on Thursday, 29th June 2006, for a hammer price of £110,000. The VC group was purchased on behalf of the Michael Ashcroft Trust, the holding institution for Lord Ashcroft's VC Collection.

After the outbreak of the First World War Alfred Wilkinson enlisted into the 2 / 5th Bn, The Manchester Regiment, at Atherton, in December 1914. Whilst still in training he was transferred, on the 27th January 1916, to the 18th Battalion and finally went overseas with this battalion on the 29th July 1916, being part of a draft of replacements for losses in the opening days of the Somme battle.
 
At some point Wilkinson was transferred to the 1 / 5th Battalion, The Manchester Regiment, probably in early 1918 when the 18th Battalion was disbanded, but his service papers do not disclose when this took place.
However, Alfred Wilkinson clearly excelled himself serving with his new battalion on the 20th October 1918, where he was to earn his Victoria Cross, eventually returning home to a hero's welcome at Leigh, Lancashire, in February 1919.

[ London Gazette, 9 January 1919 ], Marou, France, 20 October 1918,
Private Alfred Robert Wilkinson, 1/5th Bn, The Manchester Regiment.

For most conspicuous bravery and devotion to duty on 20th October 1918, during the attack on Marou, when four runners in succession having been killed in an endeavour to deliver a message to the supporting company, Private Wilkinson volunteered for the duty. He succeeded in delivering the message, though the journey involved exposure to extremely heavy machine-gun and shell fire for 600 yards.
He showed magnificent courage and complete indifference to danger, thinking only of the needs of his company and entirely disregarding any consideration for personal safety. Throughout the remainder of the day Private Wilkinson continued to do splendid work
Alfred Wilkinson was invested with his Victoria Cross by King George V at Buckingham Palace on the 22nd February 1919.

After Alfred Wilkinson was discharged from the Army with the rank of Lance Corporal he was employed by the Leigh Operating Spinner's Association, which body was subjected to adverse publicity when it was revealed Wilkinson's pay had been docked for the time he had taken off to attend 1929 VC Reunion Dinner in the House of Lords - he was duly reimbursed.

The renewal of hostilities in 1939 saw Wilkinson join the Home Guard and being appointed a Special Constable. At the time he was employed in the surveyor's laboratory as a tester at Bickershaw Colliery, but died as a result of gas poisoning at the colliery on 18th October 1940. At the subsequent inquest it was revealed that a sparrow had become wedged in a ventilation pipe thereby causing his death from carbon monoxide poisoning.

Alfred Wilkinson was buried with full military honours in Leigh Borough Cemetery.

Information from the Victoria Cross web site.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 09:32:14 PM

Correction to the George Henderson post above.

Post by: Robert Bonner on February 23, 2009, 04:15:09 AM
________________________________________
George Henderson VC

His Victoria Cross and medals have never been in the museum of The King's Liverpool Regiment.

They are on permanent loan from the family and have always, since WWII, been kept with 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment and, since recent amalgamation, with 2nd Battalion the Duke of Lancaster's Regiment

Timberman

Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 28, 2017, 09:39:42 PM
Victoria Crosses of the Manchester Regiment
1914-1918

SERGEANT CHARLES HARRY COVERDALE

11th BATTALION
THE MANCHESTER REGIMENT

4th October 1917 at Poelcapelle, France

He showed the utmost gallantry in approaching his objective. When close to it he killed an enemy officer and captured two snipers. He then rushed two machine-guns, killing or wounding the teams. He subsequently reorganised his platoon in order to capture another position, but after getting within 100 yards of it he was held up by our own barrage, and was obliged to return having sustained nine casualties.
Later he again went out with five men to capture the position and when he had gone some distance saw a considerable number of the enemy advancing. He withdrew his detachment man by man, himself being the last to retire, when he was able to report the enemy was forming a counter-attack. By his gallant leadership and utter disregard of danger throughout the attack, he set a splendid example of fearlessness to his men and inspired all with a spirit of emulation which undoubtedly contributed largely to the success of the operations.
 
Also received Military Medal 2nd November 1917 and was subsequently promoted to Second Lieutenant.
Died 20th November 1955.
Buried Egerton Cemetery, Huddersfield.

Taken from the TNA

Timberman

Update.

Huddersfield Town Hall, V.C. Memorial

Huddersfield Town Hall, V.C. Memorial to Pte E. Sykes V.C. and Sergeant Charles Harry Coverdale V.C., M.M.
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:32:40 PM
Victoria Crosses of the Manchester Regiment
1914-1918

PRIVATE WALTER MILLS

1/10th BATTALION
THE MANCHESTER REGIMENT

10/11th December 1917 at Givenchy, France

After an intense gas attack a strong enemy patrol endeavoured to rush our posts, the garrisons of which had been overcome. Although badly gassed himself he met the attack single-handed and continued to throw bombs until the arrival of reinforcements, remaining at his post until the enemy’s attacks has been finally driven off.
He died from gas poisoning whilst being carried away. It was solely due to his exertions, when his only chance of personal safety lay in remaining motionless, that the enemy was defeated and the line remained intact.
Killed in action.
Mills was buried at Gorre British & Indian Cemetery, Nr Bethune, Pas-De-Calais, France.
His VC Medal was buried with his Daughter Ellen, who died in the 1934


Taken from the TNA

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:37:09 PM
The Manchesters' Armistice

When the end of the First World War came on 11 November 1918, it was welcome release for all the soldiers fighting in France, Belgium and beyond, including the men of the Manchester Regiment, who had been hit hard by the four years of fighting.
 
Of the 42 battalions – known as the Manchesters - that had started the conflict, many had been disbanded or amalgamated elsewhere by late 1918, mainly due to the increasing number of casualties.
The regiment's most devastating moment had come a few short months earlier, during the last major German offensive of the war, in March 1918. The 16th and 17th battalions took part in what became known as 'The Battle Of Manchester Hill', when a huge German force attacked them near Saint-Quentin in France.
The soldiers fought bravely to defend their hill position, but were overwhelmed, and despite the 17th battalion joining the almost annihilated battalion late in the day, by the end of the battle, both sets of men had suffered a massive number of casualties.
 
At the eleventh hour
When the ceasefire finally came in November 1918, most of the remaining battalions were scattered around France.
The 2nd were near 'Manchester Hill' in the ruined city of Saint-Quentin. Being at the heart of the war zone, the place had been systematically looted and devastated – a staggering 80 percent of its buildings, including the impressive Basilica, were damaged.
They were not the only battalion to end the war at the front line – the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th Battalions were further north, along what was known as the Hindenburg Line (a vast system of German defences in northeastern France), at Hautmont, when the news of peace came through.
Yet, not all the Manchesters finished their war in France and one battalion’s station reveals just how far the extent of the First World War was. Common thought places the conflict almost exclusively around northeastern France and, in particular, the Somme, but the war spread its grim reach much wider.
 

The 1st battalion finished the war in Palestine, fighting Ottoman troops. The Ottoman Empire had sided with Germany, Bulgaria and Austria-Hungary against the Allied Forces and so, just as in the muddy trenches of northern Europe, British troops fought in sun-scorched places like Palestine and Mesopotamia (now mostly Iraq).

A heavy toll

Celebrated as the Armistice was, the final cessation of hostilities brought mixed emotions for the men of the Manchesters, as the war had taken a heavy toll on the regiment.
The total number of soldiers of all ranks who were killed or died as a result of the conflict was 14,122, with around a further 31,000 being wounded or reported as missing in action.
Put in modern terms, that number would account for the entire population of Ashton-under-Lyne.
When you take into account the fact that the men of Greater Manchester also fought in the likes of East Lancashire and King’s Regiments (and thus took similarly proportional losses and causalities), there can be no doubt that the Great War had a huge impact on the area.

Thanks to Robert Bonner MA Captain (Retd), Chairman of the Museum of The Manchester Regiment for his help with this article

This was taken from the BBC site and with Captain Bonners permission put on here.Thank-you

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:37:45 PM
MILITIA EMBODIMENT—EXPENSES OF STATION CHANGES.

HC Deb 20 March 1900 vol 80 c1307 1307

 MR. YERBURGH

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that the officers and men of the militia regiments, which have been embodied and sent to take the place of regulars in garrison, have been put to serious expense, which many of them can ill-afford; and that, in consequence, while they are anxious to go to the front, and prepared to take their place in manœuvre camps, they are desirous not to be called upon to incur the charges which a change from one home station to another would entail upon them; and whether he can meet the wishes of these officers and men.

 MR. WYNDHAM

The Secretary of State for War is not aware of any complaints on the matter. He fully admits the necessity of putting the units concerned to as little inconvenience as possible, but he cannot undertake to promise that Militia regiments shall not be moved.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:38:45 PM
Taken from the Messenger Newspaper.

http://www.messengernewspapers.co.uk/news/1815382.the_chapel_street_story/#commentsform#commentsform

The Chapel Street story
11:28am Wednesday 7th November 2007
 
By Rick Bowen »


THERE was nothing special about Chapel Street in Altrincham when the First World War broke out. It was full of people who worked hard and played hard, usually at the nearby Rose and Shamrock Inn.
Families crammed into tiny two up and two down houses and the street was home to a vibrant Irish community. They had come to England to look for work and the building trade was a big employer.
Many of the inhabitants of the street worked as labourers, but it was also home to a shopkeeper and even a musician.
A number of lodging houses provided dirt cheap accommodation for the job hunters, with as many as ten of them sharing one room.
In fact, Chapel Street lives in local folklore as old Altrincham's Irish "colony". Most of the inhabitants struggled to make ends meet.
Things were about to change and this ordinary street would soon achieve extraordinary status.
When war broke out 161 men from 60 homes joined the army and King George V rewarded their valour by dubbing Chapel Street the bravest street in the country.
Fifty of the men who joined up paid the ultimate sacrifice for King and country.
But all of them were remembered when, on April 5, 1919, the Earl of Stamford unveiled a memorial outside All Saints Church.
According to the book, "Bygone Altrincham", the Earl said: "It was a proud and triumphant moment for Altrincham, but, at the same time, a sad and solemn one when they remembered that 50 of these men had given up their lives in their country's service."
The memorial was erected by public subscription.
Time has faded the names of the soldiers on the roll of honour but there are records of some of those who were killed in battle.
They include: Private William Bagnall of the Cheshire Regiment; Sergeant Thomas O'Connor of the Liverpool Regiment; Private Ralph Ryan of the Royal Lancashire Regiment; Private Joseph Booth (Jnr) of the Cheshire Regiment; and Private Albert Oxley of the Manchester Regiment.
Despite its reputation as a centre of valour, Chapel Street was pulled down at the beginning of the Second World War as part of Altrincham's slum clearance programme.
The plaque can now be found on the side of the Portofino Restaurant, formerly The Grapes Pub, on Regent Road in Altrincham.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:40:15 PM
Taken from the Messenger Newspaper.

http://www.messengernewspapers.co.uk/features/traffordthroughtime/1815453.The_Chapel_Street_war_heroes/


The Chapel Street war heroes
11:37am Wednesday 7th November 2007

 

By Simon Greenhalgh »

TRAFFORD Through Time has obtained rare film archive of the day crowds gathered to honour a group of Altrincham men heralded by King George V as the "bravest street in the country".

A remarkable 161 men from 60 houses on Chapel Street joined the army when the First World War broke out in 1914.

It was a record number of volunteers from one street; 50 of them lost their lives.

Just five years later their remarkable Great War effort was recognised when the Earl of Stamford unveiled the Chapel Street "Roll of Honour" plaque on April 5, 1919.


The film - courtesy of the North West Film Archive - shows:

**Crowds cheering a procession of soldiers as they march through the streets of Altrincham.

**Staff standing outside the Altrincham Picture Theatre as a horse-drawn carriage passes by.

**The Earl of Stamford making a speech to the crowds as he unveils the Chapel Street plaque.

Chapel Street was pulled down at the beginning of the Second World War as part of Altrincham's slum clearance programme.

The plaque can now be seen outside the Portofino Restaurant, formerly The Grapes Pub, on Regent Road in Altrincham.


Timberman

PS. If you go to this link it will take you to the film  ;D

http://www.messengernewspapers.co.uk/news/video/time/32973/
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:42:01 PM
Taken from the Messenger Newspaper.

TRAFFORD THROUGH TIME
We shall remember them
11:00am Sunday 11th November 2007

By Chris Griffin »


REMEMBRANCE Sunday coincides with the 90th anniversary of the end of the 1917 British offensive in Flanders - from which some 400 men from Trafford did not return.
Research by local historian George Cogswell has unearthed the names of the Trafford servicemen who died in the bloody conflict.
Unlike the debacle of the first day of the Battle of the Somme - a British offensive in 1916 - when around 20,000 British and Commonwealth men were killed, most of them before breakfast, the first day of the 1917 offensive started well for the Allies - but it was not to last. Like the Battle of the Somme 1916, the Flanders offensive was a series of engagements, taking place over several months. Again like at the Somme, this one also ground to a halt in early November, as winter set in.
The offensive began at 03.10hours on the morning of June 7 1917, along the entire length of the Messines Ridge situated to the south of Ypres.
Nineteen huge underground mines were detonated blowing up thousands of German soldiers as they sat in their trenches. The sound of the explosions was heard in London and Eastern Counties.
Ten engagements comprised the Briitish offensive. They were: Messines, June 7 to 14; Pilkelm 31st July 31 to August 2; Westhoek, August 10; Langemark August 16 to 18; Menin Road September 20 to 25; Polygon Wood September 26 to October 3; Broodseinde, October 4; Poelcappelle, October 9; First Battle of Passchendaele October 12; Second Battle of Passchendaele October 26 to November 10.
George said: "The name Passchendaele is synonymous with totally waterlogged shell cratered ground as all the land drainage systems in this low lying area of Flanders had been destroyed in the shelling. It is impossible to describe the conditions that the Allied troops were fighting in - if they slipped off a duck-board they drowned - if they were wounded and slid into a crater, they drowned. Many that died there have no known grave, if they were not blown to pieces, they disappeared into the mud."
One hundred and ninety-five men from Altrincham, Partington and Sale died in Belgium during the offensive - and 101 have no known grave.
There were another 184 fatalities from the Stretford and Urmmston areas, of whom 61 have no known grave.
George added: "These figures only include those that actually died in Belgium, others would have died of their wounds in France being transported back to base hospitals and others would subsequently have succumbed to their wounds back in Blighty'.
"There are undoubtedly others that I have not yet been able to identify as having died in this offensive."
The largest British Commonwealth Cemetery in the world is at Passchendaele, in the Tyne Cot Cemetery at the village of Zonnebeke where 11,954 men are buried - 8,367 of whom are unknown.
The Tyne Cot Cemetery also contains the Tyne Cot Memorial to those men who died on or after August 16. The Menin Gate Memorial situated on the eastern side of Ypres contains the names of those who died in the area before August 16 At 8pm every night of the year, once the local Belgian Police have closed the road through the gate, at least two members of the Ypres Town Fire Brigade turn out to play the last post - a moving ceremony that is often attended by hundreds of people. The short ceremony has taken place since 1927, with the exception of during the Second World War, when it was deemed not to be politically correct and banned. The fire brigade buried their bugles to hide them from the occupying Germans and resumed the ceremony as soon as they left Ypres in 1945.


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:42:46 PM
1st / 63rd Foot (West Suffolk) Regiment
1829 - 1833

The Regiment
Known as (nickname)................................................... " The Blood Suckers"
Facings............................................................................ DEEP GREEN
Braided Lace.................................................................. Silver
Service in Australia ....................................................... Tasmania & Sydney .
Commanding Officer.......................................................Lieut. Colonel J. Logan
 


The 63rd Regiment of Foot (West Suffolk)
In Australia 1829 - 1833 )
(A Work in Progress)
Unpublished manuscript by Edmund D.H. Flack © 2003

This Regiment began its military term in 1744 but was know only as the 63rd ( American )Regiment . In 1758 the Regiment was renamed the 63rd (West Suffolk) Regiment of Foot and retained this title until 1881.
The following is a history of many name changes.
1744.....63rd (American) Regiment of Foot
1758.....63rd (West Suffolk) Regiment of Foot
1881.....1st Battalion of The Manchester Regiment
Present.....Forms part of The King's Regiment
 


Taken from Rootsweb

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:43:14 PM


1st / 96th Regiment of Foot
1839 - 1849

The Regiment
Known as (nickname)..................................................." The Bend Overs"
Facings...........................................................................Buff
Braided Lace..................................................................Gold

Service in Australia

 Throughout 1839 to 1841 the 96th Regiment acted as convict Guards at several locations. The Regimental Head Quarters of this Regiment was stationed in Windsor in 1841. In 1842 the Headquarters moved to Parramatta and then to Launceston in 1843. The Regiment remained in Tasmania until 1848 sailing to India in January of 1849.
Commanding Officer, Lieut. Colonel W. Hulme

The 96th regiment was broken into 26 separate detachments in 1839. These detachments began to arrive
in Australia during 1839, with the last detachment arriving in 1841. The headquarters for the Regiment was one of the last detachments to arrive in 1841.
This Regiment began its military term in 1760 in London but was know only as the 96th Regiment of Foot. The following is a history of the Regiments name changes.
1760.....the 96th Regiment of Foot.
1763.....Disbanded
1780.....Reformed the 96th (British Musketeers) Regiment
1783.....Disbanded
1793.....Reformed 96th (Queen's Royal Irish) Regiment of Foot
1798.....Disbanded
1802.....Reformed 96th (Queen's Own) Regiment of Foot
1803.....Renumbered 97th
1815.....Renumbered 96th.
1818.....Disbanded
1824.....Reformed 96th Regiment of Foot
1881.....Renamed 2nd Battalion of the Manchester Regiment
Amalgamation.....Now forms part of the King's Regiment
 
Battle Honors Prior to 1900

Egypt : 1801 , Peninsular : , New Zealand ;

96th Regiment of the British Army and while in Australia served on Norfolk Island (1840 to 1844) and in

New Zealand (1844 to 1847) and Tasmania (1847 to 1850).

 
Taken from Rootsweb

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:44:59 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)



Plaques honouring soliders stolen from war memorial

Published by Hannah Wooderson for 24dash.com in Communities
Tuesday 4th November 2008 - 2:13pm

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission said today it was "deeply shocked" by the theft of five plaques which honoured soldiers who fought in both world wars.
The bronze memorials were stolen from a war memorial at Philips Park in Manchester over the weekend.
It is feared that thieves targeted the plaques in order to sell them for scrap - with the five panels worth up to £300 each.

Commission spokesman Peter Francis said: "Thefts of this nature have sadly been on the increase because of the global increase in the price of raw materials.

"However, it absolutely beggars belief that as we approach Remembrance Day someone could stoop so low as to steal a memorial commemorating those brave men and women who gave their lives for us during two world wars.
"The Commission is deeply shocked and distressed by this news.
"If anyone has any information which might lead to the recovery of the panels, I would urge them to come forward and speak to the authorities."

Soldiers from the Manchester Regiment, the Lancashire Fusiliers and the Cheshire Regiment were among those honoured on the memorials.

The cemetery in Philips Park contains 272 First World War burials and 174 from the Second War War.
The burials are scattered throughout the cemetery and a memorial wall near the main entrance bears the names of those casualties whose graves could not be individually marked.
The commission is trawling through its records to identify the names on the stolen plaques.
Mr Francis said it would cost £10,000, and take up to 18 months, to replace the plaques which are specially crafted in Australia.

He added: "We are considering an alternative of using slate as the replacement material because thefts of bronze are so commonplace."
Councillor Mike Amesbury, executive member for Culture and Leisure at Manchester City Council said: "I am appalled that there is a minority in our society who would stoop so low as to insult those who sacrificed their lives for our freedom.
"We are in contact with the War Graves Commission about replacing the plaques as quickly as possible but in the meantime I would urge anyone with any information about the whereabouts of the plaques to contact either the cemetery or the police so that they can be recovered and those that they honour remembered, especially as we prepare for Armistice Day on November 11."
Last December a heroin addict was sentenced to a year in jail after he tried to sell 500 crematorium bronze memorial plaques stolen from Dukinfield Crematorium in Tameside, Greater Manchester.
Paul Herrick, 41, of Staylbridge, pleaded guilty to handling stolen goods after a scrapyard manager became suspicious and alerted police.
The plaques were valued at around £146,500.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:46:54 PM
Their name liveth for evermore

9/11/2008

The M.E.N is publishing the full list of names engraved on plaques stolen from a war memorial at Philips Park Cemetery in Manchester so they can be honoured on Remembrance Day.

Thieves stole the plaques a week before the nation traditionally remembers its war dead.

Private AH Ames - Manchester Regiment. Died December 21 1917.
Leading Teleg FD Arnold - Royal Navy HMS Vortigern. Died November 27 1918.
Private JW Bacon - Manchester Regiment. Died November 7 1920.
Corporal J Bailey - West Yorkshire Regiment. Died April 18 1918.
Private A Ball - Lancashire Fusilliers. Died August 31 1916.
Private W Ballingall - Duke of Wellington's Regiment. Died March 3 1921.
3rd Air Mech F Bambury - Royal Air Force. Died December 15 1920.
Private S Beattie - Lancashire Fusilliers. Died July 29 1918.
Shoeing Smith F Beech - Royal Field Artillery. Died September 3 1915.
Private J Bell - Cheshire Regiment. Died November 30 1918.
Rifleman A Booth - The Rifle Brigade. Died August 10 1920.
Private E Botley - Manchester Regiment. Died August 15 1919.
Private D Bowles - The Kings Liverpool. Died May 1920.
Private W Broome - Notts and Derby Regiment. Died March 18 1920.
Private CJ Bruen - Royal Marine Light Infantry. April 21 1919.
Private RJ Bullock - Monmouthshire Regiment. Died May 18 1918.
Sapper T Burnett - Royal Engineers. Died February 19 1921.
Private C Chambers - Cheshire Regiment. Died November 9 1918.
Able Seaman JJ Cheney - Royal Navy HMS Davenport. Died February 29 1920.
Corporal A Cleary - Machine Gun Corps (Infantry). Died August 2 1918.
Sapper S Collinge - Royal Engineers. Died May 6 1917.
Private E Conroy - Royal Army Medical Corps. Died November 25 1918.
Private J Cummins - Manchester Regiment. Died December 20 1918.
Driver T Dalton - Royal Field Artillery. Died October 31 1918.
Stoker J Davies - Royal Navy HMS Vivid III. Died January 8 1919.
Private F Dixon - Manchester Regiment. Died January 1 1915.
Driver JA Lowe - Royal Army Service Corps. Died January 1 1920.
Private J Madden - Manchester Regiment. Died June 26 1918.
Pioneer J Makin - Royal Engineers. Died July 15 1919.
Lance Cpl J Marland - Gordon Highlanders. Died February 13 1918.
Private T Martin - Lancashire Fusilliers. Died December 15 1916.
Pioneer J McGuinness - Royal Engineers. Died November 12 1918.
Private E McKiernan - Royal Welch Fusilliers. Died July 24 1918.
Private R Moore - Duke of Wellington's Regiment. May 25 1917.
Gunner JA Morrell - Royal Field Artillery. Died July 24 1919.
Private R Murray - Royal Lancaster Regiment. Died May 25 1920.
Private A Oldham - Royal Lancaster Regiment. Died November 9 1918.
Private RJ Oldham - Royal Defence Corps. Died December 17 1920.
Private M Oliver - Royal Welch Fusillliers. Died November 10 1920.
Private H Ormrod - Lancashire Fusilliers. Died November 15 1916.
Private J Smith - Manchester Regiment. Died September 3 1917.
Private J Southern - Lancashire Fusilliers. Died December 8 1916.
Rifleman E Sumner - The Rifle Brigade. Died December 21 1916.
Sapper JJ Taylor - The Royal Engineers. Died December 10 1918.
Rifleman W Thelwell - The King's Liverpool. Died November 23 1919.
Private R Tipping - Royal Army Service Corps. Died August 18 1917.
Private S Tucker - Royal Lancaster Regiment. Died March 20 1917.
Private PJH Turner - Manchester Regiment. Died May 19 1915.
Rifleman W Turner - King's Royal Rifle Corps. Died April 4 1916.
Private T Walker - Loyal North Lancs. Died May 13 1920.
Private WC Walsh - York and Lancaster Regiment. Died November 4 1918.
Private W Walton - The King's Liverpoool. Died August 20 1918.
Driver J Warner - Royal Army Service Corps. Died November 4 1918.
Lance Cpl W Wedge - Manchester Regiment. Died June 11 1918.
Private J Welsh - Loyal North Lancs. Died Decemner 19 1918.
Private JJA Wheildon - Manchester Regiment. Died February 13 1918.
Rifleman H Wilcox - The Rifle Brigade. Died October 31 1915.
Private EL Williams - The Cameronians (Scots Rifles). Died March 27 1919.
Private WH Williams - The Manchester Regiment. Died December 11 1915.
Private E Wilson - Royal Army Service Corps. Died August 7 1920.
Private W Wolfendale - The King's Liverpool. Died April 25 1918.
Private J Wood - East Lancashire Regiment. Died August 28 1916.
Private T Woods - East Lancashire Regiment. February 22 1918.
Private W Wright - The King's Liverpool. Died October 16 1918.
Sgt W Young - Royal Fusilliers. Died December 23 1919.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:47:29 PM
Manchester UOTC History

In 1851 John Owens, a prominent Manchester textile merchant, founded Owens College which by 1880 had become part of the Victoria University of Manchester. In 1898, a Volunteer Rifle Company was raised from the under-graduates here. First called Owens College Company, it was commanded by Captain Williarn Thorburn and was part of the 2nd Volunteer Battalion of the Manchester Regiment- Only one year later, the company raised volunteers for the South African War.

After the Boer war, the Company was retitled the Manchester University Company, and later N Company of the 2nd Volunteer Battalion of the Manchester Regiment. Under the Haidane Reforms of 1908, N Company was renamed The Manchester University Officers' Training Corps, with a strength of 90 cadets. Three years later, unit strength was raised to 270, in two infantry companies and a wireless section. Cadets enrolled for two years and paid a subscription of five shillings for the honour. Rifle training was conducted at Stalybridge and Diggle, guided by the 6th Volunteer Battalion of the Manchester Regiment, Drill took place in Fallowfield.

At the outbreak of war in August 1914, the unit, commanded by Major Sir Thomas Holland, was at camp on Salisbury Plain - 95% of those at Camp immediately volunteered for service, and 240 had been granted commissions by October. By the end of hostilities, 96 former members of the unit had earned the Military Cross and four admitted to the Distinguished Service Order. These men had served in a wide variety of units, from the traditional County Regiments of Manchester, Liverpool and Lancashire to the fledgling Royal Flying Corps and the Tank Corps. In June 1921 a memorial to the unit's dead was unveiled in the drill hall and was transferred later, along with memorials to the South African casualties, to the new University Barracks.

In the interwar years, the unit was reduced to a single infantry company. Training was conducted on Saturday mornings with an Annual Camp conducted in July alongside contingents from Sheffield, Liverpool and Nottingham. The unit had no integral transport and moved by train or charabanc, marching the last miles to the training camp. Field training was conducted with Lee Enfield rifles and Lewis machine-guns - though in the hard-up '20's, the Lewis guns were replaced by wooden models and football rattles when on field exercises-

Outbreak of war in 1939 led to the unit's expansion to approximately 850 and a temporary rebadging as the 61st City of Manchester Battalion, Home Guard. University courses were compressed into two years each of four terms; hence personnel turnover was rapid. The unit's Headquarters at the McDougall Centre (the University Sports Centre, built in 1938), was in fact the only military installation in Manchester to be hit during the German attacks, when a bomb passed through the CO's office and the unit swimming pool without exploding.

After 1945, the unit adapted to changing times, at various points forming detachments of Royal Engineers, Royal Signals, Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, Intelligence and Womens' Royal Army Corps. During this period, the unit began Easter Camps, then usually held at Holcombe Moor. In 1974 the unit began to recruit from the former Royal College of Advanced Technology, renamed the University of Salford in1967. This was reflected in the adoption of the current unit title, Manchester and Salford Universities Officers Training Corps.

© 2009 Crown Copyright

Timberman

Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:48:08 PM
INFANTRY DEPOTS, WESTERN COMMAND.

HC Deb 04 March 1926 vol 192 cc1642-3W 1642W

 Mr. ATTLEE
asked the Secretary of State for War the number of infantry depots in the Western Command, the number of officers and other ranks on the permanent staff in those depots, the cost of each depot, and the number of recruits passed through each depot during the last recruiting year?

Sir L. WORTHINGTON-EVANS
There are 13 infantry depots in the Western Command, at each of which a staff of seven officers and 69 other ranks is employed. The estimated annual cost of such a depot is £14,730. The number of recruits who passed through these depots during the last recruiting year is as follows:

Infantry Depots in the Western Command.
Depot and number of recruits passed through during last recruiting year:

King's Own Royal Regiment   278
King's Regiment   331
Lancashire Fusiliers   331
Cheshire Regiment   268
Royal Welch Fusiliers   337
South Wales Borderers   334
East Lancashire Regiment   376
Border Regiment   301
Prince of Wales's Volunteers   267
Welch Regiment   344
Loyal Regiment   327
King's Shropshire Light Infantry   295
Manchester Regiment   266


© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:48:41 PM
Disbanded Line Battalions.

 MAJOR ANSTRUTHER-GRAY
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War what was the date of formation of each of the eight line battalions recently destroyed; for what period were those battalions recruited on the basis of a three years colour service; and what number of men have passed from the battalions in question into the Army Reserve since their formation.

 MR. HALDANE
The dates of formation were as follows: —3rd Batt. Northumberland Fusiliers, February, 1900; 4th Batt. Northumberland Fusiliers, February, 1900; 3rd Batt. Manchester Regiment, February, 1900; 4th Batt. Manchester Regiment, February, 1900; 3rd Batt. Royal Warwickshire Regiment, April, 1898; 4th Batt. Royal Warwickshire Regiment, February, 1900; 3rd Batt. Lancashire Fusiliers, April, 1898; 4th Batt. Lancashire Fusiliers, March, 1900. Enlistment for three years colour service commenced in April, 1898, and three years men were enlisted for these regiments as well as the others until this period of enlistment was stopped in November, 1904. As regards the Reserve, as all transfers to the Reserve are from the regiment as a whole, it would not be practicable to obtain the information required without very considerable labour.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:49:06 PM
STRENGTH OF REGIMENTS IN SOUTH AFRICA.

HC Deb 23 May 1901 vol 94 c953 953
 
 MR. HENNIKER HEATON (Canterbury)
On behalf of the noble Lord the Member for South Kensington, I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he can say what is the present strength in the field of the 2nd Scots Guards, 2nd Grenadier Guards, 1st Leinster Regiment, 2nd Manchester Regiment, 1st South Staffordshire Regiment, 2nd Hampshire Regiment, and 1st Yorkshire Regiment; and whether any of them exceed 700 men fit for service.

 MR. BRODRICK
The 2nd Scots Guards at the time of the last report had 912 men in South Africa and 200 on passage; 2nd Grenadiers, 1,067; 1st. Leinster, 1,237; 2nd Manchester, 1,166; 1st Staffordshire, 1,479; 2nd Hampshire, 1,163; 1st Yorkshire, 927 and 113 on passage. The total number of the seven regiments was 8,264, and of these 1,349 were sick by last Return. This would leave, if correct, on the average, 988 fit for service per regiment.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:49:51 PM
BRITISH PRISONERS OF WAR


HC Deb 06 February 1945 vol 407 cc1926-7W 1926W
 
 Mr. G. Hutchinson
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is now able to make any further statement with regard to the conditions at Stalag Luft IV.

 Sir J. Grigg
No further report has been received from the Protecting Power on conditions at this camp.

 Sir T. Cook
asked the Secretary of State for War how many prisoners of war have escaped from Stalags into Russian-occupied territory.

 Mr. Sorensen
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he can make a statement to the House respecting prisoners of war in Silesia and, in particular, in Oppeln; and whether any have been released.

 Sir J. Grigg
No information has so far been received of the recovery of British 1927W Commonwealth prisoners of war by the Red Army, and in view of the rapidity of the Russian advance it may be some time before detailed information can get back.

 Mr. Sorensen
asked the Secretary of State for War whether prisoners of war repatriated to this country are under any circumstances required to undergo training, with a view to their services being used again in other theatres of war; and whether any long period of imprisonment by the enemy will entitle released prisoners to immediate or early discharge from the Army either now or at the conclusion of hostilities in Europe.

 Sir J. Grigg
I would refer the hon. Member to a reply I gave my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for South Portsmouth (Sir J. Lucas) on 23rd January. Returned prisoners will be given no formal priority for release but as a large number of them joined the Services in the early years of the war their priority will normally be high.

Miss Ward
asked the Secretary of State for War what agreements have been made with the U.S.S.R. with regard to British prisoners of war detained in camps in German territories which are captured by Soviet Armies.

 Mr. George Hall
I have been asked to reply. As already announced, assurances on the highest level have been given by the Soviet Government that provision will be made for the protection and welfare of all British (including Commonwealth) prisoners of war liberated by the advancing Soviet Armies. His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom attach the greatest importance to this matter, on which they are acting in close co-operation with the Dominion Governments. Negotiations for giving effect to these assurances by means of a formal agreement are proceeding and will, I hope, shortly be concluded. This will provide for the care and repatriation at the earliest possible moment and on a reciprocal basis of all prisoners of war and civilians liberated during the continuance of hostilities by the Soviet forces on the one hand and on the other by the Allied forces in Western and Southern Europe.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:50:29 PM
This just part of the Clause 1. (I think they were getting desperate)

CLAUSE 1.—(Power to Call Up Certain Excepted Men for Examination.)

HC Deb 30 March 1917 vol 92 cc783-878 783

 (1) The Army Council may, in accordance with and subject to the provisions of this Act, at any time, by written notice require any man who is for the time being excepted from the operation of the Military Service Acts, 1916, as being—

1.   (a) a member of the Territorial Force who is, in the opinion of the Army Council, not suited for foreign service; and

2.           (b) a man (in this Act referred to as a disabled man) who has left or been discharged from the naval or military service of the Crown in consequence of disablement or ill-health (including an officer who has ceased to hold a commission in consequence of disablement or ill-health); and
 
3.   (c) a man who has been previously rejected on any ground, either after offering himself for enlistment or after becoming subject to the Military Service Acts, 1916,
to present himself for examination in such manner and within such time, not being less than seven days, as may be specified in the notice.

 (2) Any man to whom a notice is so sent shall, as from the date of the notice, be deemed to come within the operation of Section one of the Military Service Act, 784 1916 (Session 2), and not to be excepted there from as being unsuited for foreign service, or as being a disabled man, or as having been previously rejected, as the case may be; and the Military Service Acts, 1916, shall apply accordingly.

 (3) If a man fails to comply with a notice under this Section, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding five pounds or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months.

 (4) Where a disabled man has had at least three months' service with the Colours or where his disablement has been caused or aggravated by naval or military service, no notice shall be given to him under this Section till after the expiration of a year from the time when he left or was discharged from the Service.

 (5) Where a man has been required to present himself for examination in pursuance of this Section and is not accepted for service, no further notice shall be given to him under this Section until after the expiration of six months from the date of the previous notice.
 
 (6) A notice calling up a man under this Section may be served by post at the last known address of the person on whom it is to be served.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:51:02 PM
This is a small part of the 74 page document.


SALONIKA EXPEDITION.

HC Deb 05 March 1917 vol 91 cc81-182 81

 Mr. PRINGLE
I beg to move to reduce the Vote by 1,000 men.
I do not propose to follow the hon. and gallant Gentleman (Brigadier-General Croft) into the details which comprised the greater part of his speech, but I would refer to the opening parts of his observations and those with which he concluded, as well as to the speech of my hon. and gallant Friend the new Chairman of the Liberal War Committee (Major-General Sir Ivor Herbert). It is strange indeed to find hon. Members of this House still asking the War Office for an estimate of the number of men they require. We have had these estimates asked for time and again, but no estimate has been given, and it is unlikely that any will be given. The failure to obtain estimates in the past might have been a lesson to hon.

Members not to encourage the War Office to demand further men, but rather to insist that the War Office should make the best possible use of the men it has. It is in reference to that that I desire to move the reduction of the Vote which I have placed on the Paper.
I believe that at the present time our Government are making a wasteful use of our armed forces. On former occasions this allegation has been made, and it has been put forward in this House already in the course of the present Session, but up to the present time no answer has been vouchsafed by any responsible member of the Government. On the first day of the Session I drew attention to the useless and wasteful adventure at Salonika, and I then asked for a statement of policy from the Government. Since then hon. and right hon. Members have made a like demand, but with no better result.

My right hon. Friend the late Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. McKenna) referred to the subject in one of his speeches, and a very able and remarkable speech on this subject was made by the hon. Member for East Mayo (Mr. Dillon), but, in spite of all these things, the only statement we have heard in regard to the Salonika 82 Expedition has come in this House, and it is to the effect that there is nothing to say about Salonika.

But it is very significant that while the Government tells us there is nothing to-be said about it, they expressly forbid comment and criticism on the expedition in the public Press. It is therefore only in this House that it is possible to discuss and criticise that policy, and, if possible, to secure a modification in the action the Government are taking. There has been one exception with regard to this veto upon comments on Salonika, and I find in a periodical called "New Europe," published last week, a defence of the Salonika Expedition. Apparently the Government policy is that all criticism and all-attacks are to be banned, but if any writer is prepared to defend the expedition then there is no embargo whatever upon its publication. What is the defence which has been put forward of this expedition? We have, as a rule, long disquisitions on the respective merits of what are called the Eastern and Western policy.

A certain number of people who are alleged to believe that a decision can be reached on the Western front are described as extreme Westerners, and it is alleged of them that they are of necessity opposed to any expedition in the East, no matter what its merits may be. On the other hand, we have people who call themselves Easterners, who say it is absolutely necessary for this country and her Allies to counter German ambitions in the East, and what is called the design to link up-Berlin with Baghdad they say must at all costs be checked, and that the only way to do that is by sending an expedition to Salonika.
Has this expedition to Salonika, at any time since it went there—I think it was in October or November, 1915 —really seriously threatened the German communications with Constantinople or Baghdad?

It certainly did not do so in 1915, and even during the slight advance in the autumn of last year there was, I think, no reason to believe that either Germany or her Allies felt that their communications with the East were seriously menaced. Indeed, at no time during the whole of that period have the German communications been seriously menaced. But we have to deal with the situation as it now is. It is common for the defenders of the expedition to say that had it been undertaken in the early months of 1915, or had it been pressed when it was advocated by 83 the present Prime Minister, or had it been undertaken before the invasion of Serbia, or pressed forward when Roumania entered the War, substantial results would have been achieved.

My hon. Friend the Member for East Mayo put forward a very strong case to show that the expedition had been systematically starved by the War Office against the will of the late Cabinet. That indicates that the expedition was undertaken by the late Cabinet under somewhat peculiar conditions. That it was undertaken unwillingly, we knew from the circumstances of the resignation of the present First Lord of the Admiralty from the late Government. At that time there was revealed hesitancy and indecision. We also know that during the remainder of the life of that Government the expedition to Salonika was a constant source of division among its members; and because there was division among the members it can hardly, I think, be alleged that it was the military who succeeded in starving this expedition. If there has been any indecision, then the responsibility for that indecision must rest with the responsible head of the Government.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:51:45 PM
B.L.A. (Serving Battalions)

HC Deb 09 October 1946 vol 427 cc73-4W 73W

 Mr. M. Lindsay
 
asked the Secretary of State for War the names of the infantry battalions, other than motorised battalions which formed part of the B.L.A. continuously from 1st July, 1944, until the conclusion of hostilities, giving the num ber of battle casualties suffered by each, with separate figures for officers and other ranks.

 Mr. Bellenger

The following infantry battalions (other than motor battalions) served continuously in Europe from 1st July, 1944, to 8th May, 1945:

Regiment.   Battalion.
*Grenadier Guards   2nd
*Coldstream Guards   1st, 5th.
*Irish Guards   2nd, 3rd.
*Welsh Guards   2nd.
Royal Scots   8th.
Queen's Royal Regiment   1/5th.
Royal Warwickshire Regiment   2nd.
King's Regiment   5th.
Royal Norfolk Regiment   1st.
Lincolnshire Regiment   2nd, 4th.
Devonshire Regiment   2nd
Suffolk Regiment   1st.
Somerset Light Infantry   4th, 7th
East Yorkshire Regiment   2nd.
Leicestershire Regiment   1st.
Royal Scots Fusiliers   6th, 11th.
Royal Welch Fusiliers   4th, 6th, 7th
South Wales Borderers   2nd
Monmouthshire Regiment   2nd, 3rd.
King's Own Scottish Borderers   1st, 6th.
Cameronians   9th.
Gloucestershire Regiment   2nd.
Worcestershire Regiment   1st.
East Lancashire Regiment   1st.
Duke of Wellington's Regiment   7th.
Hampshire Regiment   7th.
Dorsetshire Regiment   4th, 5th.
South Lancashire Regiment   1st.
Welch Regiment   1/5th, 4th.
Black Watch   1st, 5th, 7th.
Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry   1st, 1st Bucks Battalion.
Essex Regiment   2nd.
Royal Berkshire Regiment   5th.
King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry   1/4th.
King's Shropshire Light Infantry   2nd, 4th.
Herefordshire Regiment   1st.
Middlesex Regiment   1st, 1/7th, 2nd, 8th.
Princess Louise's Kensington Regiment   2nd.
Wiltshire Regiment   4th, 5th.
Manchester Regiment   1st.
York and Lancaster Regiment   1st Hallamshire.
Durham Light Infantry   9th, 18th.
Highland Light Infantry   1st, 10th.
Glasgow Highlanders   2nd.
Seaforth Highlanders   2nd, 5th, 7th.
Gordon Highlanders   1st, 2nd, 5/7th.
Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders   5th.
Royal Ulster Rifles   2nd.
Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders   2nd, 7th.

* Although these are infantry units they were employed in an "Armoured" role.
   
I regret that separate figures of the battle casualties of each battalion are not readily available.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:52:17 PM
ARMY—SMALL POX AT MANCHESTER—THE 5TH DRAGOON GUARDS.

HC Deb 15 May 1885 vol 298 c622 622

 MR. LEAHY
asked the Secretary of State for War, If he has received the following Resolution from the Sanitary Authority of Newbridge and Curragh Camp, and if he will take any steps to comply with their request?
 13th May 1885.
 
The Board having considered the letter of the Secretary of State for War relative to removal of the 5th Dragoon Guards from Manchester to Newbridge, it was resolved that, though the regiment may be free from small-pox, we see from newspaper reports that the disease is spreading round Manchester into Salford, and that many persons, tradesmen and others, who will not be medically inspected, will accompany the regiment; under these circumstances the Board request that some arrangement may he made to either cancel the order for removal or delay it until the disease abates in Manchester.

(Signed) R. H. BOEROWES, Clerk.
 "G. MOLLOY, Executive Sanitary Officer."

 THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON
The strictest orders have been given that no civilians shall be permitted to accompany the regiment to Ireland in any capacity whatever, unless they are medically examined and certified by the medical officer to be free from smallpox, or the danger of conveying it to others. Beyond this I cannot go. The Memorial referred to in the Question has been duly received.

 MR. SEXTON
Might I ask the noble Marquess whether the soldiers are not now in communication with their families, who are in communication with others, in a district admitted to be infected with small-pox?

 THE MARQUESS OE HARTINGTON
said, it was not considered that there was any danger.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:52:43 PM
GRATUITY PAYMENT (DELAY).

HC Deb 28 May 1919 vol 116 cc1245-6W 1245W

 Mr. BRIGGS
asked the Postmaster-General if he will instruct the Controller of the Post Office Savings Bank to pay to Company Quartermaster-Sergeant Watson, No. 272231, of Moston, Manchester, the £26 gratuity deposited to his credit at the Post Office Savings Bank, London, W. 14, on 6th February, 1919, by the regimental paymaster, Labour Corps, Nottingham, no satisfactory reply having 1246W hitherto been obtainable from the Controller of the Post Office Savings Bank on the matter?

 Mr. ILLINGWORTH
This gratuity appears to have been issued in February last, but owing to the address of the payee, as furnished to the savings bank, being incomplete, the notification of issue failed to reach him. Payment of the gratuity has now been arranged.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on June 29, 2017, 05:53:16 PM
ATTEMPT TO POISON AN ENGLISH REGIMENT IN INDIA.
Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXVII, Issue 8077, 21 January 1888, Page 3


ATTEMPT TO POISON AN ENGLISH Regiment IN INDIA.

A correspondent sends the following information to tbe Indian Railway Service Gazette. Very considerable excitement has beea aroused at Agra, owing to an attempt that has been made to poison the Manchester Regiment stationed there. It seems that shortly after visiting the canteen, the men were seized with violent attacks of vomiting, which created a suspicion that something was wrong with the beer. The beer on tap was accordingly examined, when it was found to contain arsenic. The dastardly attempt is not considered to have beea made with any political objects, but it is somewhat strange that only those casks containing beer for the Manchester Regiment were found to have been poisoned. A cask that has just been tapped at the Sergeants' Mess, Royal Artillery, was tested and found to contain arsenic ; but it had previously been marked for the Manchester Regiment, which makes stronger the belief that there is nothing political connected with the attempt; for, bad there been, all the troops in the garrison would have been alike. The whole of the beer in store at Agra is undergoing a strict chemical analysis, the samples of each cask are being taken and sealed. Every inquiry is being made, and rewards have been offered to try and discover the authors of this diabolical plot.

 Â© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 03:56:25 PM
Please note, For the New Zealand National Library items, the text is a computer-generated text, that is why I have added the picture of the paper clipping as well, as the text has spelling mistakes in it.


EFFECT OF LYDDITE SHELLS.
Marlborough Express, Volume XXXIV, Issue 273, 21 November 1899, Page 3


EFFECT OF LYDDITE SHELLS.
 November 20. Further particulars of the fighting on the 9th show that the Manchester Regiment encountered, at short range, hundreds of Boers who were hiding on a donga from the lyddite shells. The Regiment inflicted great loss on them. After the victory General White fired a salute in honor of the Prince of Wales' Birthday; and there was immense enthusiasm.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 04:01:53 PM
BERLIN OFFICIAL REPORT
Evening Post, Volume LXXXVIII, Issue 154, 28 December 1914, Page 7
 
 BERLIN OFFICIAL REPORT
 
REGARDING A RECENT BATTLE MANCHESTER REGIMENT'S EXPLOIT. (Received December 28, ID a.m.) LONDON, 27th December." A wireless message from Berlin officially states : "It is now possible to judge tjte success of the battle against the British and the Indians at Festnbert and Bethune. Nineteen officers, • 819 men, fourteen, machine-guns, two French mortars and other material were captured. "The British left three thousand dead on the field 1 and asked for an armistice to bury the deatl. The German losses, were comparatively small." The above message apparently refers to the Manchester Regiment's exploit cabled on the 24th.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 04:04:55 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)


THE VICTORIA CROSS
Evening Post, Volume LXXXVIII, Issue 153, 26 December 1914, Page 7
 
 THE VICTORIA CROSS

TWO BRAVE MEN. LONDON. 24th December. Particulars of the action for which Lieutenant, James Leach and Sergeant John Hogan, of the 2nd Manchester Regiment, have been awarded the Victoria Cross, have been published. After the regiment's two unsuccessful attempts to capture some trenches on 29th October, Hogan, who is an ex-postman, and Leach, at the head of ten others, crawled a hundred yards to the trenches amid a storm of bullets, and then in a ha-nd fight killed eight Germans, wounded two, and made prisoners of sixteen.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 05:47:01 PM
COWARD'S ADVENTURES.
Tuapeka Times, Volume XXXVII, Issue 5221, 30 November 1904, Page 4

 COWARD'S ADVENTURES.

' Tbe Adventures of a Coward 'is a title which suggests itself as being appropriate for a remarkable story told to the Aberavon Magistrate a few days ago by George Eobert Day, 23, says the  Daily Mail.' Day was charged with being on his own confession, a deserter from tbe Manchester Regiment, and his attempt to free himself from militarism was made, he said, when he was with his regiment in Ladysmith during the Boer war.
Some time before Lord Dundonald relieved the town, Day eeeayed to break through tbe lines. Slipping away in the darkness of night, he eluded both the British outposts and those of the Boers, but his progress through tbe country, although be was Aided by friendly Kaffirs, was very slow.
Hunger compelled him at last to lite himself up to the Boere, and in their ranks be fought against hie own countrymen. In fact, he was recognised by some of bis own comrades wbo.bad been taken prisoners.
Even while fighting side by side with the Boers Day's martial spirit foreaook him, and once more he got away, This time he managed to reach Dtlagoa Bay, where he succeeded in getting on a French steamer bound for Marseilles.
From there he made a voyage to Liverpool, and finally, after travelling round the world as a sailor, he landed at Swansea almost destitute, and gave himself up to the Aberavon polices Day who is a native of Plymouth, was handed over to an escort from Manchester.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:24:54 PM
Not to do with the Manchester's but does mention a Manchester man. Sad to say that the treatment of our hero's does not seem to get any better with time.

THE LIGHT BRIGADE.
North Otago Times, Volume XXXIV, Issue 7052, 30 May 1890, Page 3
 
THE LIGHT BRIGADE.

J. Arbuckl* Reid, writing to the Melbourne Age of May 10th, gays : Sir, — In your issue of Saturday last the following appears amongst the cable iwwu from London : " The Secretary of State for War has promised to consider a scheme for bestowing relief upon those survivors of the famous charge of the Light Brigade at Balaplava who are now in destitute circumstances''" This "promise to consider" is doubtless due to the fact that the Press in England has of laic been drawing marked Attention to the msnner in which these men have been neglected. As the matttr may be of some interest to your numerous readers, I subjoin an extract from a newspaper which was forwarded to me by last month's mail: Tho Manchester Sunday Chronicle, sth January, 1890, publishes a list of the survivors of the Balaclava charge and their condition. It will be noticed that all of them are of the rank and file. The officers no doubt have been amply provided for : 17th Lajjckjis, Prirate Brennanj In a London workbouse, Private Marshall •? Worked in a machine shop at Lincoln till he lost three fingers; now disabled and in extreme want. Private Holland, of Ormskirk*: tfo resources. Private Smith ; Cripple, in the Strand Union, London, Private Burns, of Northampton} Trumpeter Brown, and Private Butler— Addresses unknown, but all aged and very poor for several years past. 13T11 HWSSATIS. Prirate Cooper : Sweeping roads for the Kensington Vestry ; will soon have to give over. Private May hew : Miserably poor. Htji Hussaks. Sergeant Brown : Stood outside Lewis's, Manchester, placarded "One of the Suryiyors," etc ; has worked at an explosives factory ; left through ill health i 70 years of age and'faiHng {pension, Js 3d a day. Private Spring : In extreme poverty. Friva** CrUnUter, of Liverpool, ditto. Private RicharaJ6ii i SfIVVX !2yeaf«, «0 pension ; has Crimean modal with four bira, »n4 the Turkish, medal j suffers from striojture, has lost the sight of one eye, the pthcr going pan* help. Drifts from workhouse to com»OB lodging house when he gets* little help froaj concerts, etc., then fade to workhouse. The only Manchester born map flow surviving oi the Six Hundred, Private Unt»w t fywt an arm in the
I charge, haft been lucky enough to get into the lloyal Hospital, Chelsea, by which ho forfeits his pension. Bru (Kino's Own) Lhuit Dragoons. Private Doyle : Almost starving in Dublin ; wns tho Duke of Cambridge^ orderly al JnU-rnmn ; got IA from ij.lt. H. after eurncbt bohoitution tmd four months' waiting lust your. Tho L 4 came from the Cambridge Fund, supported by public contribution. Trumpeter Donoghue : Living on charity ; can get no employ men t. Private Kogers: Helpless through age and dißeuHe 5 in Within^ton Workhouse. Private Keegau, IHnmngluvm : Out of work. Private Grant: In the Royal Hospital, ClmlHeu, nuiking two only of the survivors so fortunate. Privates Farreli, Carroll, and Brewington : Known to be without work, *ud in great distress. The praises of the Gallant Six Hundred have been read, recited and sung the world over, but where is the poet who will commit to immortal ver«e the woea and sufferings of the very last remnant of them who are still engaged in the struggle for life ? On reading in the Chronicle the condition of the 22 men named I was forcibly reminded of a remark I hoard when I was a very small boy in my native town. A crack regiment of soldiers with band aud ban tiers guy happening to pass along the street, an old beggarman who had th« inevitable bag on his back— as carried by all beggars in Scotland— siid, " Aye, boys, its gran' to see them the noo : but after a' it just comes to this — the meal pock," and he pointed fligntdcantly over his shoulder as he trudged oft. I hopo that you will pardon this ifc may be rather gossipy letter, nu the ground that it comes front one who has had some little experience amougst the "glories of war" at the Crimea.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:30:24 PM
THE BALACLAVA CHARGE OF THE LIGHT BRIGADE.

HC Deb 29 April 1890 vol 343 c1643 1643

 MR. NORRIS (Tower Hamlets, Limehouse)

I beg to ask the Financial Secretary for War whether he can state if it is a fact, as reported, that more than 30 men who took part in the Charge of the Light Brigade at Balaclava are now in absolute want; if so, whether any steps have been or will be taken to afford them some relief; and if any balance remains out of the Patriotic Fund, or if there is any other fund applicable to such a purpose?

 MR. BRODRICK
 
I must ask the hon. Member to postpone the question until my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State can be present.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:30:55 PM
CRIMEAN VETERANS.

HC Deb 14 February 1899 vol 66 cc856-7 856

 MR. R. G. WEBSTER () St. Pancras, E.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been called to the fact that a survivor of the Balaclava Light Brigade charge, namely, the late Mr. John Smith, at one time of the 17th Lancers, was recently buried from the St. Pancras Workhouse; and that he would have had a pauper's funeral but for the generosity of the public, through Mr. T. H. Roberts; is he aware that 27 also of his comrades in this charge are being supported solely or partly by voluntary contributions, and so kept out of the workhouse; and, whether their cases could be carefully examined by the authorities, and an adequate money allowance prescribed them out of public funds, in accordance with the promise made in respect to such cases by the then Secretary of State for War (Mr. E. Stanhope) in a Debate in Committee of Supply on War Office Estimates in this House on 25th June 1891?
 
 THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY TO THE WAR OFFICE (MR. J. POWELL WILLIAMS,) Birmingham, S.

The late John Smith's claims to a special campaign pension were carefully considered, but his service and character on discharge did not justify the grant. With regard to the 27 comrades, it is not possible to make any statement without a reference to each case. If the honourable Member will give the necessary details, their claims, if not already inquired into, will be thoroughly considered. In accordance with the promise made by the late Mr. Stanhope, all cases which were referred to the War Office were very carefully considered, and the men who were properly qualified received pensions.

 MR. R. G. WEBSTER

I should like to ask the honourable Gentleman, is it 857 not a fact that a large number of soldiers who served their country in the Crimean War are in the workhouse?

 MR. POWELL WILLIAMS

If the honourable Member will give me their names I will make inquiries. But, answering offhand, I should say the fact is not as alleged.
 
 MR. BAYLEY () Derbyshire, Chesterfield

Has the right honourable Gentleman's attention been called to the Royal Patriotic Fund, which has money that was intended for Balaclava?
 MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! Notice must be given of that Question.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:31:21 PM
Provision for Survivors of the Balaclava Charge.

HC Deb 01 August 1906 vol 162 c1032 1032

 MR. DOBSON (Plymouth)
 
To ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that appeals are being continually made in the Press for charitable assistance on behalf of twenty-nine needy survivors of the Balaclava light brigade charge; and whether he will consider the advisability of making sufficient provision from public funds for their maintenance in order that they may no longer be dependent upon any form of public charity.

(Answered by Mr. Secretary Haldane.)
Provision is already made for the award from Army funds of special campaign pensions up to 1s. a day to all necessitous survivors of the Balaclava Charge. In addition, grants are made from a fund administered by the Royal Patriotic Fund Corporation. Application should be made to the Commissioners of Chelsea Hospital in the case of any necessitous survivor who is not in receipt of any Army pension.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:32:06 PM
Lamp Breaking by Soldiers at Kinsale.

HC Deb 13 March 1902 vol 104 c1285 1285

 MR. CREAN (Cork Co., S.E.)
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that two privates of the 4th Battalion of the Manchester Regiment, stationed at Kinsale, were arrested by the police on the 10th February last, having been caught in the act of breaking the public gas lamps; that the head constable arranged with the secretary of the gas company to attend at the following Petty Sessions Court to give evidence of the practice of the breaking of lamps since the arrival of this regiment in the town; and that the secretary of the gas company was informed by the head constable that the prosecution was not to be proceeded with, and was handed 3s. 8d., the value of the breakage, by the two men who had been summoned by the police; and can he explain why the prosecution was abandoned by the police, and by whose authority.

 MR. WYNDHAM
The police reported this occurrence to the gas company who declined to prosecute. The value of the breakage was remitted to the company by the officer in charge of the detachment. The police did not institute proceedings, consequently they abandoned none.

 MR. CREAN
asked who induced the secretary to the company not to prosecute.
 
MR. WYNDHAM
There was only one lamp broken.

 MR. CREAN
If representations as to the conduct of the troops are made by respectable inhabitants—

 MR. SPEAKER
Order, order! The hon. Member cannot debate the question.

 MR. CREAN
I will send the correspondence to the right hon. Gentleman to prove that the statements I have made are correct.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:32:38 PM
NAVAL AND MILITARY PENSIONS AND GRANTS.

HC Deb 15 July 1918 vol 108 cc725-6W 725W

 Mr. SNOWDEN
asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office if he will inquire into the amount of pay and allowance now being given on account of Private H. Burns, No. 277580, 2/7th Manchester Regiment, who is now home out of hospital pending the fitting of an artificial foot, and who is being paid 11s. 1d. a week for Army pay and ration money and 9s. 4d. separation allowance for his wife; and, as this amount appears to be inadequate, will he see that this man is paid the sums to which he is entitled?

 Mr. FORSTER
Inquiries are being made into this case, and I will acquaint the hon. Member of the result in due course.

 Sir H. GREENWOOD
asked the Pensions Minister whether he can amend the Rule granting 2s. 6d. a week extra to 726W recipients of the special campaign pension so as to make the increase apply to men over the age of seventy who are for some reason or other not eligible for the old age pension on attaining that age?

 Mr. FORSTER
No, Sir; the 2s. 6d. corresponds to the extra 2s. 6d. given to old age pensioners, and I fear I cannot adopt my hon. and gallant Friend's suggestion.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:33:27 PM
This is part of a 75 page debate. :o

WAR OFFICE.

HC Deb 31 May 1916 vol 82 cc2753-868 2753

 Motion made, and Question proposed,
 "That a sum, not exceeding £1,000, foe granted to His Majesty, to defray the Expense of the War Office, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1917."
 4.0 P.M.

 The UNDER-SECRETARY Of STATE for WAR (Mr. Tennant)
One day last week my right hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Dundee (Colonel Churchill) made an interesting speech to the House.

Therefore the broad facts must be stated. I have unfolded to the Committee one method of measuring the realities of war, namely, the numbers at home and abroad and the proportion of ration and rifle strength, and the Prime Minister so far agrees with my conclusions. I have put them forward, and he says they are platitudes, but I should have almost thought they were paradoxes. Take another method of testing the efficiency of our military strength. We have been told publicly, and it is a public figure, that we are raising seventy divisions from the United Kingdom. We do not know how many of those divisions are at home and how many abroad, but it is quite immaterial for the purpose of the argument I am submitting how many are at one side of the Channel or the other.

The establishment of a division was 18,500 all ranks before the War. I know some additions have been made since, but I will take that figure. Taking 18,500 and multiplying it by seventy, if my arithmetic is right, the total is 1,295,000. That is your fighting organisation at its maximum. Out of this how many actually fight in each division? Here I take a speculative and a disputable figure, and I daresay there may be some considerable room for argument as to the actual figure. An Infantry division of 18,500 men at full strength would produce on the average between 9,000 and 10,000 rifles, and between 2,000 and 3,000 Artillery and Engineers and other fighting units, who come under the fire of the enemy and take an effective part in the fight.
If you say 12,000 fighting effectives for a division, I believe that would be held in all the Armies of Europe to be a fairly safe and generous estimate. Multiply the 12,000 by seventy and that gives you 840,000 men effective, out of which again between 600,000 and 700,000 would be Infantry rifles, on "whom all the loss of this War practically falls. It may be said that the rest of the men in those divisions are just as necessary to fighting strength as those who actually fight. I am not disputing that. Each division is a self-contained unit, with its transport and everything complete, and if in seventy divisions there are 2767 840,000 fighting effectives, there would, on the basis I am now pressing, be 455,000 indispensable ancillaries.
Let us take the total figure, 1,295,000, or say 1,300,000 for short. That represents all the troops, apart from Cavalry and Corps or Army Artillery, which are included in the fighting formation of our Army at its maximum. That includes not only the fighting effectives, but those who sustain them in each division; it includes not only the divisions in the front line but those which are in support and those in reserve; and it includes not only the divisions which are abroad but the organised divisions which are at home, and that amounts to a total of 1,300,000 men. Where are the rest? If every division was abroad and at its full strength, that would account for 1,300,000 men.

Now I come to another figure which has been officially stated, the gross figure of 5,041,000. That figure, I quite understand, does not represent the strength of the Army; it represents, if I understand it rightly, the total number of offers for voluntary service since the beginning of the War, offers of voluntary service to fight in the field or afloat against the enemy.

 Mr. TENNANT
It includes the original Expeditionary Force.

 Colonel CHURCHILL
I see, quite.

 Sir E. CARSON
Does it include the rejected men?

 Colonel CHURCHILL
I understand it includes everything, even men who have come forward several times and have been rejected each time. I say that figure embodies a very impressing and very glorious fact, and I am not in the least quarrelling with it, but it is very important that it should not be misunderstood, very important, and that it should be properly explained by the Government, and I hope we shall have some explanation of it in detail. But I have to proceed with my argument on some basis or other for the purpose of arriving at a conclusion, and I am going to take an absolutely fair basis. So. instead of beginning with 5,000,000 men, which is the popular construction put on this figure—" an Army of 5,000,000 of men"—I think we should take off the Navy, I suppose 350,000.
Take off the casualties, the permanent casualties. Of course, many people have been wounded several times and have yet gone back. Take off the current hospital population 2768 through active service. Take off those who have been rejected or subsequently found unfit. Take off the Dominions. Take off the Indians. I suppose all those should be taken off. Very well; make every deduction that is proper and necessary. Do not let us quarrel where there is no reason.

Sir H. DALZIEL
Does it include the attested munition workers?

 Colonel CHURCHILL
I do not think it does. I think it includes only people who fight against the enemy. At any rate, I say, make every deduction that is proper and necessary, and still, when you have done so, you have left an immense figure, certainly between 3,000,000 and 4,000,000, I from the United Kingdom. Supposing we take the lowest of all these figures as a working hypothesis. I have to avoid two dangers. One is the danger of precise statement, and the other is the danger of overstatement, in regard to these figures. I am honestly trying to give the House the main outlines of these questions without falling into either of those errors.
So I take the lowest of all these figures—3,000,000. Seventy divisions at full strength at home and abroad equal 1,300,000 men, and that leaves 1,700,000 men still to be accounted for. What fighting elements are there in this great mass of men which are not included in the maximum fighting establishment of seventy divisions? There are the Cavalry, there are the Corps and Army Artillery; there are certain indispensable garrisons at home and in our fortresses, but in many cases these garrisons should be and are to a large extent made to fit in with training depots, so that they are really not worthy of separate mention as fighting elements. Supposing we take a lump figure for them all. It is a good thing to I mix them all up, so that no precise figure is discernible.

Supposing we allow 200,000 in addition to the divisional strength for those units I have mentioned. With that 200,000 men added to the seventy divisions, aggregating 1,300,000, I shall have exhausted, to the best of my ability—and I have studied this question from near the top and near the bottom of our military system—all the fighting units and elements in our system, and I can go no further in accounting for our fighting forces. All the rest is at the present time non-fighting. Out of 3,000,000 there will be 1,500,000 at home and abroad, on the lines of communication, in the depots, in the training staffs in the schools, preparing or otherwise supporting 2769 the fighting formation—not the fighting men, but the fighting formation. The great thing is to block these large divisions of our fighting forces clearly in.

 There are other ways of making this calculation, and I hope we shall not get into a dispute where there need be no dispute. About a year ago I had occasion to examine these kind of questions very closely, and it was then a rough general rule that a division and its share of corps and line of communication troops could be taken in the British, French, and German Army at 20,000 men. Seventy divisions on that basis would be 1,400,000 men. But then you have to make a small addition for the other fighting elements. The result of the calculations would not, I think, differ very much. You might take it either way, but it is very important not to forget that divisions have definite and precise establishments. They are not just vague fluctuating numbers; they have definite and precise establishments, and I would suggest that it is important to remember this. The Prime Minister the other day was asked a question by an hon. Friend of mine on these benches. He was asked to explain some of the figures connected with the Army, and he stated that a division, consisted of 25,000 men.

 The PRIME MINISTER
I corrected it afterwards.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:34:04 PM
INOCULATION AGAINST DISEASE.

HC Deb 04 February 1915 vol 69 cc139-40 139

 Sir HAROLD ELVERSTON
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that Colonel Davies-Colley, of the 6th Reserve Manchester Regiment, recently issued instructions that all the men in the regiment must be inoculated against typhoid, and that if any objected force must be used to carry out the instruction; that on the 21st or 22nd January six men, who refused to be inoculated, were brought before Colonel Davies-Colley, who sent them to the doctor under escort; and that whilst an attempt was being made to forcibly inoculate one man Four others escaped and interviewed the brigade officer; whether proper official notice has been taken of the action of Colonel Davies-Colley; and what steps will be taken to prevent further improper instructions being issued by this officer?

 Mr. TENNANT
No, Sir. My attention has not been drawn to this case and no action has been taken with regard to it by the War Office. If any incorrect instructions have been issued, I have no doubt that the general officer commanding would take suitable notice.

 72. Mr. LAURENCE HARDY
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he is aware of the campaign which is in existence for the purpose of discouraging our soldiers in the New Armies from being inoculated against enteric and other similar diseases; whether, in view of the statistics in support of inoculation, as shown during the present War, measures will be at once taken against any organisation which carries on such an agitation; and whether he will consider if the time has now come when inoculation should be made compulsory for all soldiers proceeding to the front on active service, both for their own sakes and those with whom they are in contact?

 Mr. PETO
asked whether inoculation against typhoid fever and vaccination against small-pox will, in future, be compulsory for all ranks in the military forces of the Crown before they are sent on service oversea during the currency of the present War?

 Mr. TENNANT
The answer to the first point is in the affirmative, and to the second that it is not proposed to take any action against the organisations referred to. As regards compulsion, I am advised that legislation would be necessary. The introduction of a Bill is not at present contemplated, though this may be further considered should necessity arise.

Mr. CHANCELLOR
Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that the introduction of such a Bill now would be a breach of contract with the recruits who have joined the Army, and would involve deep dishonour?

 Mr. TENNANT
I do not agree with that.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:34:40 PM
VOLUNTEER EXEMPTION BILL.—

HC Deb 14 December 1803 vol 1 cc334-53 334

 On the order of the day being read, that this bill be read a third time,
Just part of a very long debate

Colonel Calcraft,
in answer to what had fallen from the worthy Alderman (Price), thought that the facility of recruiting in provincial districts, as compared with the difficulty staled to exist in London, did not arise from the cause stated by (he worthy alderman, namely, the giving of higher bounties in the former than in the latter, but from the circumstance of a vast number or working artisans being dismissed from their employment at. Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester, and various other manufacturing towns, as the returns from those towns would prove. These men, when they were unemployed, and saw no chance of being reinstated, immediately formed the idea of enlisting in the line or militia; and instead of going from town to town to look for higher bounties, repaired to the next town where they could be received; and this would account for the difference of facility in raising recruits in the country. With respect to the volunteers themselves, as lie had not had an opportunity of speaking his sentiments, he wished to say a few words. It had been pretty much the fashion to charge a right hon. gent, near him (Mr. Windham) with disparaging those corps, as utterly useless and unfit for service.

He, for one, never conceived the arguments of that right hen. gent, in that view, but merely as meaning that his Majesty's ministers did not use the military population of the country in the way which he thought most efficient. For his own part, however, he felt no disposition to undervalue the services of the volunteers; on the contrary, he thought they would be rendered highly serviceable and efficient for the defence of the country. As to discipline, however, as compared with troops of the line, or established militia, that was out of the question. The nature of the service, and the opportunities that had occurred for training the volunteers, admitted of no comparison with the other troops, In aid of those troops, however, he thought they would form an important branch of the public force; and he thought that as that service must depend chiefly on the high spirit and good will of the corps, a liberal conduct from those who were to direct their operations should be observed, and that government should not be over nice or strict in the minuter details of their discipline.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:38:59 PM
The following text was written by Captain Robert Bonner
And is reproduced here with his permission.

The Collect of The Manchester Regiment

O Lord our God, whose name only is excellent
And Thy praise above heaven and earth,
We thank Thee for the men of the Manchester Regiment
Who counted not their lives dear unto themselves
But laid them down for their friends;
Beseeching Thee to give them a part in those good things
Which Thou has prepared for all whose names are written in the Book of Life.
And grant to us, that having them always in remembrance,
We may imitate their faithfulness and with them inherit the new name
Which Thou has promised to them that overcome;
Through Jesus Christ our Lord.

timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:40:30 PM
Post by: george.theshed197 on October 29, 2011, 02:02:16 AM

I am very pleased indeed to see that at last the Collect of The Manchester Regiment is now available for ALL and sundry to repeat as we as former members used to repeat it at every Turning of The Leaves.

Very few of the 'Old Boys' ever needed to refer to the Service cards.

Congratulations Bob,

George.
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:42:21 PM
Post by: timberman on October 28, 2011, 01:34:03 PM
________________________________________
From the Oldham advertiser
Pictured: Manchester Regiment's photographic archive published online
September 12, 2011
A unique photographic archive of the historic Manchester Regiment is now online.

It features pictures of the 10th and 24th battalions formed in Oldham, allows visitors to submit comments and information, and order copies.

Library staff, ex-members of the regiment and volunteers have spent several years sorting, identifying and cataloguing the photographs.

The first 2,000 of the Manchesters and their antecedents – the 63rd and 96th regiments of foot - can be viewed at www.manchester-regiment.org.uk

Almost the same number are to be added as part of the ongoing project.

The 10th Battalion of the Manchester Regiment was mobilised at Oldham's Rifle Street Barracks in 1914. During the First World War the 10th raised two further battalions.

At the same time local volunteers formed the Oldham Pals, which became the 24th Battalion of the Manchester Regiment.

Capt. Robert Bonner from the Manchester Regiment Museum said urged visitors to help add to the archive.

He said: "Over the years we have built up a substantial collection of photographs, and spent hours and hours trying to identify who is in them. This is an ongoing puzzle which can be solved with the help of researchers and relatives of people involved in the Regiment over its long history."

The earliest images date from 1864 and depict musicians of the 96th Regiment of Foot in Graham’s Town, South Africa. The most recent pictures show the regiment on active service in the Malayan Emergency of the 1950s and on garrison duties in Berlin and Minden.

Larysa Bolton, archivist at Tameside Local Studies and Archives Centre, said: “We’re delighted with the online image archive. It’s never been so easy to access and view this amazing collection of photographs.”

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:43:11 PM
The following was found on the wiganworld blog
 
 The Fifth (Territorial) Battalion
1/5th (Wigan) Battalion T.F.

On the 4th August 1914, The battalion was at their HQ at Bank Street Chambers, Wigan, ‘A’ to ‘E’ Companies, ‘F’ Company Patricroft, ‘G’ Company, Leigh, ‘H’ Company, Atherton.

As part of the Manchester Brigade, East Lancs Division (under the command of Brigadier General Noel Lee.) The Battalion was in camp at Hollingworth Lake, Littleborough near Rochdale.
On the 10th September 1914 the battalion sailed from Southampton for Egypt on board the Caledonia, arriving at Alexandria on the 25th September. En route the convoy passed the Jullunder Brigade sailing in the opposite direction, which included the 1st Battalion, sailing back from India to go into the line in France. In Egypt the battalion was quartered in the Mustapha Barracks and were kitted out in tropical clothing. By October the battalion was training in the Sidi-Gaber Barracks.
On the 3rd May the battalion embarked and on the 6th May 1915 they landed landed with the 6th Battalion at W and V beaches at Gallipoli,
The battalion moved up to the front line trenches on the 12th May under heavy machine gun and artillery fire, relieved on the 21st, the battalion went back to the beach, which was still under heavy fire. On the 26th May 1915, the formation became part of the 127th Brigade, 42nd Division. The battalion moved back up to the badly flooded front tranches and worked at completing the trench line
4th June 1915, the 42nd and the 29th Division attacked the main line of Turkish trenchs, with the Indian Brigade on the left and the RND on the right. The attack was carried through to the turkish third line ( which was their objective) but with 'terrible casualties' Although the initial attack was a success, the troops were withdrawn to the turkish front line, as the other units had not acheived their objectives. This position was held despite heavy turkish attacks. On the 5th July the battalion went back into the trenchs
In January 1916 after the evacuation of Gallipoli, the battalon arrived back in Egypt, wher it remained until March 1917 when it was transferred to France
On the 11th November 1918, as part of the 127th Brigade, 42nd Division, the battalion was in France, Hautmont area, S.W. of Maubeuge.

WW2

5th Battalion The Manchester Regiment (TA)
On 29 March 1939 the government ordered a doubling in strength of the Territorial Army and on 31 July the battalion was divided in two, the second half forming a new 6th Battalion. The 5th Battalion mobilised on 1 September 1939 with all men under 19 or of low medical category being transferred to the newly formed 6th Battalion. Training was carried out locally and in Central Park, Wigan. At the end of the month to Haydon Bridge, Northumberland and in January 1940 to Marlborough, Wiltshire.
To France with the BEF on 24 April as part of 127 (Manchester) Brigade 42 (East Lancashire) Division to Halluin on the French/Belgium border. Following the German invasion of Belgium on 10 May the battalion moved to the area of Douai. During the withdrawal to Dunkirk the battalion was engaged in close combat to the west of Bergues . To the UK on 1/2 June from Dunkirk.
The battalion reorganised at Stokesley, near Middlesborough. Later to West Aukland, to Wortley in the Sheffield area and, in the autumn, to Wheatley, near Oxford. In November to Felixstowe, Suffolk. In March 1941 the battalion moved to Southend and in the summer to Orwell Park, between Felixstowe and Ipswich. On 1 November 1941 the battalion was redesignated 111 Regiment Royal Armoured Corps (The Manchester Regiment) when 42nd Division was converted to an armoured division. In November 1942 the regiment became an armoured car regiment of 77th Division.
In November 1943 the battalion moved to Groatham, near West Hartlepool and reverted to an infantry role following disbandment of 42 Division. For a short time in 38th Division, then to 55th Division at Corsham, again converting to a machine-gun battalion. In August/September 1944 acted as the Royal Bodyguard at Balmoral whilst the Royal Family was in residence. December 1944 to Nutley, Sussex, with ‘D’ Company to Sandringham for Royal Guard duties. In February 1945 to Mundford, Norfolk until April when it moved to Llanybythor, Carmarthenshire. Posted to Malta on 18 November 1945 and remained there until November 1946. Battalion disbanded and 159 men transferred to the 1st Battalion in Germany in February 1947.
Reformed as a Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment Royal Artillery in 1947.
Further reading:
Wigan Military Chronicle - The Teritorial Army - G Derbyshire.
Unpublished manuscript in Imperial War Museum, Wigan Local Studies Library (Ref D/DZ A16) and the Lancashire County Record Office, Preston.

courtesy of Capt. Robert Bonner

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:56:28 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)



CANLOAN Army Officers' Association (Information taken from their web site.)

http://www.war-experience.org/canloan/index.html

 In the fall of 1943, a scheme was devised whereby Canadian Infantry Officers could volunteer to serve with Regiments of the British Army. This came about due to the many campaigns fought by the British Army, half way around the world, which resulted in a shortage of junior officers, while the invasion of North-West Europe was imminent.

The Canadian Army at this time had a surplus of officers, due in part to the disbanding of two Home Defence divisions, and also to the fact that the Canadian Army was fighting on one front only, in Italy. Officer training continued and it was discovered that Canada had more officers than could be employed in active battalions, at this time, with the result that many were cooling their heels in Reinforcement Units, Depots, and Training Centres.

The Canadian Government offered to loan junior officers to the British Army on a voluntary basis, under the code name "CANLOAN". They were attached for all purposes except pay and given special serial numbers with the prefix "CDN".

Six hundred and twenty three (623) Infantry Officers, together with fifty (50) Ordnance Officers, whom the Royal Army Ordnance Corps were anxious to have, volunteered and served under the CANLOAN scheme, a total of six hundred and seventy-three (673) in all. While the majority were Junior Officers, Captains were included on the basis of one for every seven Lieutenants. Some officers with higher ranks reverted and some from other arms of the service transferred to Infantry, in order that they could get in on this promise of early action.

Of these Officers one was in,
The Manchester Regiment
- 1st Battalion-53rd (Welsh) Infantry Division
459 Major (Lt-Col) Donald R. Hartt [2nd posting of 3]

Timberman

Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 01, 2017, 09:58:27 PM
Proposed battalion of Manchester clerks & warehousemen


The following is a copy of an announcement that Manchester employers are being asked to sign and post up, calling upon employees for Voluntary Service

Tuesday 18 August 1914

A battalion is being raised composed entirely of employees in Manchester offices and warehouses upon the ordinary conditions of enlistment in Lord Kitchener's army, namely, for three years, or the duration of the War.
The Battalion will be clothed and equipped (excepting arms) by a fund being raised for the purpose. We therefore desire to call the attention of all our employees between the ages of 19 and 35 years to the call of Lord Kitchener, which was emphasized by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, for further recruits, and, in order to encourage enlistment, we are prepared to offer to all employees enlisting within the next two weeks the following conditions:-
(1) four weeks' full wages from date of leaving.
(2) re-engagement on discharge from service guaranteed.
(3) half pay during absence on duty for married men from the date that full pay ceases, to be paid to the wife.
(4) Special arrangements made for single men who have relatives entirely dependent on them. (5) The above payments only apply to those enlisting in the Ranks, and not to anyone who may obtain a commission otherwise than by promotion from the Ranks, but each case (if any) of those obtaining a commission, will be treated on its merits.
6) The above offer is for voluntary service only, and should the Government decide on compulsory training later, the offer will not apply to those affected by such compulsion.

Names should be sent in to your employer. Recruiting for this Battalion will take place at the:

Artillery Headquarters,
Hyde Road, Ardwick
Daily, from 9am to 6pm

It is hoped that all employers will fall in with the above scheme and do all they can to encourage their employees to enlist.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 02, 2017, 07:48:43 AM

I've been asked if the above date of the 18th August 1914
is correct? or should it be the 28th.

I originally posted the information
Post by: timberman on May 31, 2011, 03:37:45 PM 

From guardian.co.uk

https://www.theguardian.com/century/1910-1919/Story/0,,126430,00.html?redirection=century

The following information is from
 Battalions of the Manchester Regiments 1914-1918

The 27th of August was for the 16th Bn
The 28th of August was for the 17th Bn
The 4th of September was for the 18th Bn
The 2nd of September was for the 19th Bn

I think where the Guardian got it wrong is the
first notice was done in London (18th)
and then rolled out across the country when it
proved popular.

From Wiki

Encouraged by Lord Derby's success, Kitchener promoted the idea of organising similar recruitment campaigns throughout the entire country. By the end of September 1914, more than fifty towns had formed Pals battalions, whilst the larger towns and cities were able to form several battalions each; Manchester, for example, raised four battalions in August,

Hope this clears up the discrepancy in the dates.

Thanks for picking it up.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 02, 2017, 12:15:23 PM
 Due to a question in the topic Cerisy-Gailly British Mil.Cem. & 16th Manchesters.
 prompted me to look at the Chaplains in ww1.

 First World War
Army chaplains came into their own during the First World War (1914-1918), with its extended periods of trench warfare and the ensuing heavy casualties.
Not all chaplains served at the front - some commanding officers would not allow them to risk their lives - but where they could, many chaplains did. For men surrounded by seemingly futile death, a churchman willing to risk his life to join them in the trenches helped them make sense of the war and feel that God had not abandoned them.
One chaplain recounted his experiences in a letter to The Times.
I can go where I like; I go to see the wounded when being brought back from the front, and to see if I am needed when gunners have been shelled. If necessary, I am ready to go to the firing line, but I should only be in the way in the daytime. I see the sick who come in daily and are sent off by the ambulances to a hospital down country.
My first two Sundays I had no services. My third Sunday I had one in a farmyard lasting 20 minutes; and we had to march almost directly after. My fourth Sunday I crossed a river into the danger zone and held a service (without a surplice) for two companies, who were sleeping in bivouacs of straw in a wood in inches of water, surrounded by pools of mud up to 1ft. deep! I then went on to another wood to some more troops, and began a service, but a deluge stopped it, and I had to cancel a third owing to rain. We generally fight or march on Sundays!
From the Front: The Army chaplain at work, The Times, Thursday 8 October 1914
In 1919 the Army Chaplains' Department became the Royal Army Chaplains' Department when King George V officially honoured its work. By 1920 all the Protestant denominations involved had consented to be governed by the department, although the Roman Catholics did not join until 2004.
179 British Army chaplains died in the First World War. Three of them were awarded Victoria Cross medals.

1914-18: The Great War. Names such as Woodbine Willy and Tubby Clayton became synomynous with the bringing of comfort, care and compassion to those caught up in the bloodiness of war. The Reverends Theodore Bayley Hardy V DSO, MC, Noel Mellish VC, MC and William R F Addison VC stood as marks of the commitment of the Chaplains to serve wherever the British soldier was to be found, and at whatever the personal cost. 179 Chaplains died during the war. In recognition of their devoted work since 1914 King George V conferred the prefix 'Royal' on the Army Chaplains' Department.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 02, 2017, 10:13:23 PM
BEXHILL CAMP (MEDICAL EXAMINATIONS).

HC Deb 09 November 1916 vol 87 c437W 437W

 Mr. SNOWDEN
asked the Secretary of State for War if he will make inquiry into the way in which the doctors at the military camp at Bexhill-on-Sea are alleged to be passing unfit men for service abroad, men being passed at the rate of about 100 in five minutes without any individual examination?

 Mr. FORSTER
Inquiries are being made.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 02, 2017, 10:14:03 PM
ZEPPELIN RAIDS (RISK OF FIRE).

HC Deb 09 November 1916 vol 87 cc436-7W 436W

 Mr. BILLING
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that the risk of fire has been increased in many localities as the result of Zeppelin raids; and, seeing that expert firemen not engaged in certified occupations are now being called up, whether he will consider the advisability of exempting a sufficient number of expert firemen in those towns and villages which have no regular brigade and are in the direct track of Zeppelin raids?

 Mr. FORSTER
That a new cause of risk of fire has arisen by the dropping of explosives from Zeppelin airships has not passed unobserved by either the military or civil authorities concerned. These 437W authorities have discussed the question, and arrangements have been made in the direction suggested by the hon. Member.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 02, 2017, 10:14:37 PM
SOUTH AFRICAN WAR—BOER TREATMENT OF BRITISH PRISONERS.

HC Deb 30 July 1900 vol 87 cc18-9 18

 MR. JAMES BAILEY (Newington, Walworth)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he has any information to the effect that there are nearly two thousand British prisoners at Nooitgedacht, in the Transvaal; that for the past fortnight they have not had meat nor salt, that hour was running short, and that clothing and money were urgently needed; and whether, since communications between our Consul General at Lorenzo Marques and the Boer Commission have ceased, and there are therefore no longer means of reaching the prisoners through Delagoa Bay, the Government are taking any steps to relieve the position or lessen the hardships of the prisoners through other channels.

 The following question also appeared on the Paper:—
 
MR. KIMBER (Wandsworth)
To ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the Foreign Office has made or is willing to make any and what efforts to procure the friendly offices of the Portuguese Government as a medium of communication with the Boers and their British prisoners of war at Nooitgedacht, and obtaining permission to send to them clothing and medical necessaries, and at least to have information of their welfare, and the names of the living, the sick, and the dead, if any; and, in the alternative, will the Foreign Office move the Portuguese Government to ask Mr. Kruger to name some officer of his own who may be permitted to receive and convey to and from the prisoners letters from and to their friends, open if required, and even subject to censorship.
 
THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. WYNDHAM,) Dover
If my hon. friend the Member for Wandsworth will allow me, I will answer at the same time the question which he has put down on this subject. As I stated in debate on Friday there is the most earnest desire on the part of Her Majesty's Government to do all that is in their power for the prisoners at Nooitgedacht. Consul General Crowe has made every effort to forward supplies of foods, clothing, and medical comforts to them; and as soon as we received an intimation that the Transvaal Government would no longer receive any communication on the question of the prisoners except from Lord Roberts, a telegram was sent to Lord Roberts asking him to bring pressure to bear on the Transvaal authorities in order to ameliorate the prisoners' condition. That being so, it is not thought advisable to seek the intervention of the Portuguese Government.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 02, 2017, 10:15:04 PM
TREATMENT OF INVALIDED OFFICERS.

HC Deb 30 July 1900 vol 87 c20 20
 
 MR. BAINBRIDGE
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether, if an officer invalided home from the seat of war requires the attention of specialists while in a military hospital in England, it is the rule that such advice has to be obtained and paid for by the officer himself or his relatives.

 MR. WYNDHAM
If the medical officer in charge of a patient is of opinion that the assistance of a specialist is required, the cost would be borne by War Department funds.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 02, 2017, 10:15:57 PM
Deceased Soldiers' Effects—Case of Private Doyle.

HC Deb 23 January 1902 vol 101 c661 661

 MR. J. P. FARRELL (Longford, N.)
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he can state on what grounds the effects of Private P. Doyle, who died of enteric fever in South Africa, are withheld from Mrs. Casey, his foster mother and nearest relative; and will he direct that the usual order be made to hand over the deceased soldier's effects to his only living relative.

 LORD STANLEY
Private Doyle, 2nd Manchester Regiment, died intestate. His father is said to be dead, and his mother, who is reported to have deserted him soon after birth, cannot be traced, though Mrs. Casey, his aunt, offered to endeavour to find her and to acquaint the War Office. No further communication has been received from Mrs. Casey, and the effects are therefore retained on behalf of the mother, and will in due course be advertised, to enable her, if alive, to claim them. If the mother is dead, there are other relatives equally entitled by law to share the effects with Mrs. Casey.

 MR. J. P. FARRELL
What period will elapse before the advertisement is published?
 
 LORD STANLEY
I cannot answer that off-hand.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 02, 2017, 10:16:24 PM
Isaac Smith, an emplyee of J. Lyons & Co who served in the First World War was awarded the Victoria Cross. He was a member of the Chocolate Sales Department at Cadby Hall.

The official citation in the VC Register reads:

   On 26 April 1915 at St. Julien, Belgium, Corporal Smith left his company on his own initiative and went forward towards the enemy's position to help a severely wounded man, whom he carried a distance of 250 yards into satety. When casualties were heavy later in the day Corporal Smith again displayed great gallantry in helping to bring in more wounded men and attending them, regardless of personal risk.
Issac Smith, who served in the Manchester Regiment, survived the war, returned home and subsequently immigrated to Australia where he died on 11 September 1940.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 02, 2017, 10:17:52 PM
ARMY SCIENTIFIC CORPS.

HC Deb 24 April 1856 vol 141 cc1444-50 1444

CAPTAIN LEICESTER VERNON

said, he rose, according to notice, "to call the attention of the War Department to the prospective promotion and the establishments of the scientific corps, with a view to maintaining their efficiency in peace for the purposes of war." He thought he should be able to show the House that it was of such consequence to maintain the efficiency of the two most important branches of the service that it was a national rather than a departmental question.
At the commencement of the Peninsular war the brandies of the army to which his notice referred were exceedingly deficient, there being few gunners and no sappers and miners, while the senior officers were far advanced in the decline of life, and the junior wholly destitute of experience. The demand, however, produced men of the requisite talent, and a Burgoyne and a Smith, a Dickson and a Ross, speedily appeared on the scene. The Duke of Wellington then remodelled the artillery, and introduced sappers into the service for the first time.
If the English general had had but a single company of the latter corps at Burgos—the only instance in which he failed in all his Peninsular campaigns—that place would have been carried by our forces. Peace at length returned, bringing with it reduction and stagnation; and when the late war broke out we were in no better preparation as regarded the personnel of our scientific corps than in 1808. In fact, so low had our artillery become that it could not carry on the siege of Sebastopol without help from the naval brigade.
The sappers comprised only about 2,000 men, scattered over the whole world and engaged in every variety of scientific duty. But for the defective strength of these corps most of our disasters in the Crimea might have been completely avoided. Apart from higher considerations, and regarding the matter simply in an economical point of view, the maintenance of the scientific branches in a state of efficiency in time of peace would have been a course preferable to the one adopted. If our engineers, artillery, and sappers and miners had been in adequate force, the redoubts at Balaklava would not have been left to the charge of the Turkish troops; and if those redoubts had been raised under the direction of such men as Gordon and Chapman, the. Russians would never have seen the inside of them, for they could have been successfully held by British artillery.
Moreover, had they been entrusted to such good keeping, we never should have had to deplore the disastrous military massacre at Balaklava, as it might be fitly termed. He thought the House was scarcely aware what that disaster cost the country. An infantry soldier, before he was thoroughly equipped and brought into the field, cost the country £100; a cavalry soldier, who required far more training, cost double that sum; and, inasmuch as a dragoon without a horse was no dragoon at all, his charger, when perfectly seasoned and five years old, could not be valued at less than another £100.
The Times, speaking the other day of the troop horses in the Crimea, reckoned them at £200 each; and, accepting that figure as accurate, which he was willing to do, the mounted dragoon at Balaklava with sword drawn and ready to fight, cost the public not less than £400. The disastrous charge at Balaklava killed and put hors de combat 422 men; but, taking the number at only 400, the aggregate loss in money occasioned by what The Times described as "this fool's promenade" amounted to £160,000. If the sappers and miners, at the opening of hostilities, had been in sufficient strength, they would have themselves made a road between Balaklava and the camp, thereby obviating what he should always consider as a great blunder, the creation of the Army Works Corps, for which the House only the other night voted upwards of £400,000.

The same body would also have constructed the railway in the Crimea, the whole expense of which, it seemed, we were never to know precisely, though from first to last it would doubtless reach the rate of at least £70,000 per mile. Again, an adequate corps of sappers and miners might have housed our troops, stabled our horses, enabled us to defend Inkerman, and, in short, prevented the series of misfortunes which were our regiments down to a shadow, and under which the 63rd Regiment in particular, arriving during the inclement season, in something like one brief week, melted away and vanished from the list. From the extinction of that regiment, at the rate per man already mentioned, the public sustained a pecuniary loss of at least £100,000, and, adding those various items together, the total sum sacrificed by reason of the inadequate strength of the scientific branch when the war commenced could not, therefore, amount to less than would have sufficed to maintain those corps on a war footing throughout the whole intervening period of peace.
 
Coming next to the question of promotion, when the military branch of the Ordnance service was transferred to the Horse Guards, it was hoped that a modification of the system would have been extended to the scientific corps, and that they would have been benefited by something like the army promotion, but to their dismay they found that there was a disposition shown to turn the army into that slough of despond, a seniority corps. It was thought by many that, under the purchase system, money without merit would advance, and 1447 merit without money remain stationary; but, in the service at least, there was not that feeling against purchase which was frequently imagined to prevail.

A work, entitled Memoirs of Peninsular Generals, showed that fourteen of these commanders—all men who had won for themselves positions of the highest distinction—had all risen in the service by purchase. The author of that book, a gentleman of good family, a nephew of Sir Lowry Cole, but without wealth, stated in his preface that he entered the army after a regular preparatory training at an early age, and with an ardent desire to earn promotion; but that, in consequence of his want of money, he was repeatedly purchased over—that, nevertheless, he felt bound in justice to admit that the juniors, who by the regulations of the service and the accidents of fortune had stepped over his head, with scarcely an exception, were all fully qualified to discharge the duties of their position and zealous to promote the efficiency of the service.

 The fourteen generals mentioned in Mr. Cole's book were officers who had highly distinguished themselves in the Peninsula, and every man of them had been promoted by purchase. The children, so to speak, of that system, they were pitted against French Marshals, most of whom had risen from the ranks, and whose eminence had been very generally attributed to that fact. What was the consequence? The English purchase-men closed with the French Marshals wherever they met them, fought them foot to foot and hand to hand, and drove them back from the lines of Lisbon to the gates of Paris; beat them collectively, beat them individually, from Jourdan, who, from being so constantly beaten, was called the "anvil," and Massena, the enfant cheri of fortune, down to Soult, the best French general who ever lived, with forces inferior in number, and Babel-like, from being composed of many nations. Now, it was well known that the East India Company's Service did not profess to acknowledge the purchase system; yet the officers were obliged to establish a kind of purchase of their own.

They raised money among themselves to buy out the officers who impeded their promotion, and were it not for this practice the service would come to stagnation and be intolerable. But then it was said, "Look at the French service." That system had been greatly commended as one that harmoniously combined three principles of promotion—merit, seniority, and interest—but there was reason to doubt whether it worked quite as well as was generally supposed. Some French and English officers, coming home the other day from the Crimea in the same transport, conversed about promotion—of all topics the most attractive to military men. The English officers were, as usual, loud in their praises of the plan adopted by our allies, but they were corrected by an old French officer. "Be not deceived, gentlemen," said the vieille moustache; "you may disabuse yourself of that idea—to advance with us you must have a relative in the bureau of the Minister of War." That observation showed that things did not go on quite as smoothly in the French army as was commonly supposed. Moreover, it should be borne in mind that, under the French system, a man who had not attained a certain rank within a certain time was compelled to leave the service—a regulation which was continually depriving it of some of its best members. Men still vigorous were mercilessly turned out of the army, though unfit for any other profession.

They lingered disconsolately about the estaminets of Paris, their soldierly walk and gallant bearing denoting what they once had been, while their threadbare coats and haggard faces too plainly indicated what they now were. Now, he would ask, was it desirable that the officers of the English army should be reduced to such a condition? Like the benevolent individuals who, unmindful of what was happening at Whitechapel, sent missionaries to Timbuctoo, our military reformers drew their illustrations of the seniority system from foreign countries, forgetting that there were three branches of the British service—the Marines, Artillery, and Engineers—in which that system obtained, and in no one of which did it work well. Its effect in the Marines was to officer the force with old men. The hon. Member for Richmond (Mr. Rich), when the question of purchase was before the House on a former occasion, had referred to statistics to show that our present system produced captains of thirty years of age, and majors of forty years of age; and he wished that we should go back to the seniority system.

But the hon. Gentleman appeared altogether to ignore the fact, that there were in the British army three seniority corps—the Marines, which he (Captain L. Vernon) placed first, as being the worst off, the Artillery, and the Engineers. He remembered some years ago being on church parade at Woolwich, when the Marines, which corps was brigaded with the sappers, came on the ground, and that a brother officer, Sir William Denison, noticing that the adjutant of the Marines was a tolerably young man, exclaimed, "A wonder out of Heaven—a young marine!" The Engineers were almost in an equally bad case. General Du Plat once wrote a pamphlet to show that as regarded promotion they were the "worst off" corps in the service, and he mentioned the case of one officer in particular who was the worst off man in the corps, and consequently the worst off man in the whole army. The officer in question had served in every climate, wherever the drum beat he had followed; yet he was twenty-four years a lieutenant, and he was forty years of age before he was a captain. To the truth of that statement he could bear his personal testimony, for he happened to be the unlucky individual referred to. He had served for nearly half a century in a branch of the service where education, incessantly progressive, might be said to begin with the cradle and end with the coffin, and during that period his pay was something less than that received by the driver of a Paddington omnibus.
So much for the seniority system. The Duke of Wellington used to say that an infantry soldier might be formed and made fit for service in four months. Napoleon proved that less than two would suffice, for he conquered at Lutzen and Bautzen with conscripts who had only been seven weeks in his army. A soldier of artillery or the sappers could not be formed in less than two years, but at the end of that period he was thoroughly accomplished in his profession, and was competent, not only for his own peculiar duties, but for those also of an infantry man. It was a wise economy, therefore, to encourage such a soldier, even though his pay exceeded that of the infantry man. The fortified places should be held chiefly by battalions of Artillery and Sappers. In peace the Sappers, he was certain, were the cheapest troops to maintain. He regretted occupying the time of the House so long, but he had thought it desirable to show the necessity of maintaining, in due efficiency, a scientific corps, so that it might not happen again, as it had recently happened, that, for want of such a corps, thousands of men and millions of money were sacrificed.
 
MR. SPEAKER

I must remind the hon. Member that there is no Motion before the House.

CAPTAIN LEICESTER VERNON
 
My notice, Sir, was, that I would call the attention of the War Department to the subject. I move that the War Department direct its attention to the subject, or I will move an Address to Her Majesty—[Cries of "Withdraw."]—Very well, Sir, my object having been to direct the attention of the Government to the subject, I shall not move anything.

 VISCOUNT PALMERSTON

Sir, the hon. and gallant Member has executed his notice. The matter he has brought under the notice of the House is one of great importance, and I can assure the hon. and gallant Member that due attention shall be paid to it by the Government.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 02, 2017, 10:19:33 PM
Death Sentences on Soldiers.

HC Deb 30 May 1906 vol 158 cc400-2 400

 MR. LEA. (St. Pancras, E.)
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War with 401 reference to the Annual Report on the Army [Cd. 2696], page 77, what wore the names and corps of the two men on whom the death penalty was inflicted abroad in 1905, what wore the offences for which they were tried, on what dates were they tried, where and by whom; also the names of the persons who confirmed the sentences, and what opportunity was given to these men to appeal; and whether the evidence has since been submitted to the Judge Advocate-General, and if he approved of the sentences.
 
MR. HALDANE
The death sentences referred to were those inflicted in India on two privates of the 1st Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment and 1st Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers for murder. The men were tried by General Courts-Martial at Secunderabad and Chakrata respectively, in July, 1904. The sentences wore both confirmed by the General Officers Commanding Secunderabad Division and Eastern Command, and were approved by the Governor-General of India in Council, after review by the Judge Advocate-General in India. It is not considered desirable to make public the men's names. As regards the appeal there is no provision under the Army Act for an appeal; the sentence, however, is revised by the confirming officer and the legality of the proceedings, including the finding, by the Judge Advocate-General; and all courts martial proceedings pass through both these individuals.

 MR. LEA
asked whether the murder was a murder of natives or Europeans.
 
 MR. HALDANE
asked for notice of the Question. If the hon. Member would communicate with him privately he would try to furnish him with details.

 MR. LEA
further asked whether, as there was to be a Court of Criminal Appeal for civilians, a similar Court of Appeal would be provided in connection with courts-martial.
 
MR. HALDANE
said this was a very big question. The present procedure was one of the most merciful he could conceive. A very considerable number 402 of cases were quashed or the sentences reduced.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 02, 2017, 10:20:13 PM
The New Bayonet.

HC Deb 30 May 1906 vol 158 c403 403


 MR. WALTERS (Sheffield, Brightside)
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether the pattern for the new bayonets has been decided upon; and, if so, when the orders for the same will be distributed.
 
MR. HALDANE
The pattern for the new bayonets has not yet been settled.

 Â© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 02, 2017, 10:20:56 PM
COURT-MARTTAL SENTENCE.

HC Deb 22 December 1916 vol 88 c1833W 1833W
 
 Mr. JOWETT
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that Private A. I. Goldberg, No. 46962, 3rd Battalion Manchester Regiment, a conscientious objector, was court-martialled at Cleethorpes on 12th December, 1916, and sentenced to six months' hard labour on 14th December, 1916; whether he is aware that this man's colonel on 15th December ordered him to dig trenches, which order the man declined to obey, with the result that on 15th December the colonel imposed the sentence of twenty-one days' bread and water; and whether he will inform the House of Commons under what powers this procedure was adopted by the colonel and under what regulation is it possible to sentence a man to twenty-one days' bread and water at all, and/or after sentence by court-martial?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
Inquiries are being made, and I will inform my hon. Friend of the result in due course.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 02, 2017, 10:21:46 PM
ENLISTMENT UNDER AGE

HC Deb 22 December 1916 vol 88 cc1833-5W 1833W
 Mr. MORRELL
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War if he will make 1834W inquiries with regard to W. Pilling, of No. 50, Pritchard Street, Burnley, who recently enlisted in the Army when only 15 years of age; and, in particular, if he will ascertain whether this lad was recently stationed at Park Hall Camp, Oswestry, D company, hut 16; whether the lad's father communicated with the commanding officer of this camp and was informed by him that the lad was now overseas but that he would endeavour to get him recalled; and whether, if the facts are found to be as stated, the lad will be immediately discharged?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
If the hon. Member will supply details of the unit and regimental number I will have inquiries made.

 Mr. DEVLIN
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War (1) if he will explain why the military authorities refused the demand of the parents of Private Robert Dunbar, No. 10440, 2/4th Royal Scots Fusiliers, who was born on 31st July, 1900, and is not yet seventeen years of age; whether he will inquire into this case with a view to ordering the boy's discharge; (2) whether he is aware that Private John M'Keever, No. 4/6535, 4th Battalion Con-naught Rangers, who enlisted at Belfast on the 7th August last, was born on 22nd February, 1900, and is therefore not yet seventeen years of age, and that, when his father made application for his discharge, he was informed by the Infantry Record Office, No. 12 District, Cork, that the boy would not be discharged but would be held to serve at home until he was nineteen, and would not be sent for service overseas until then; whether there is any authority for the retention of this boy, and, if so, what is it; whether he will have this case inquired into with a view to the boy's discharge; and  if he will explain why the military authorities refused the application of his parents for discharge from the Army of Private P. M'Closke, No. 24308, 1st Troop, A Squadron, 5th Lancers, who was born on the 10th March, 1900, and is therefore only in his seventeenth year; and whether he will inquire into this case with a view to this boy's discharge from the Army?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
If the facts are as stated, I would point out that under present regulations an under-age soldier is not discharged, but posted to a Home service unit. If he is under seventeen 1835W years of age, he is given the option of enrolling as an Army Reserve munition worker.

 Mr. LUNDON
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he has yet come to a decision as to the release of Private Maurice M'Dontnell, of the Irish Guards, stationed at Caterham, on the grounds that he is only sixteen years of age?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
Orders were issued on 1st December for this man to be posted to a Home service unit on verification of his age by birth certificate. He will then be given the option of enrolling as an Army Reserve munition worker.

 Mr. GINNELL
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War if he will state the date upon which Private F. Pearson, No. 276, 8th Company, 3rd Battalion West Yorks Regiment, when under military age, was sent to France; the date upon which he was wounded in action there; why his mother's application of 22nd June last for his transfer to the class of those under age was not acceded to; and will he explain why the military authorities sent this insufficiently trained youth into action, in view of the Statute and the Army Council instruction then in force and the repeated pledges of Ministers that youths under military age would be either sent home to their parents or reserved from action pending their attainment of military age?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
This man joined the Expeditionary Force in France on 2nd March, 1916, and he was wounded early in July last. In regard to the latter part of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the answer given to the hon. Member for West Bradford on 21st November, and would add that the soldier declared his age as nineteen and a half on enlistment in February, 1915.


AND THIS ONE THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN POSTED. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 1916 AND 1919.

UNDER-AGE RECRUITS.

HC Deb 10 November 1919 vol 121 cc62-3W 62W

 Mr. J. A. PARKINSON
asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware that Private James Hurst, No. 77903, E Company, 19th Platoon, 1st Battalion, Manchester Regiment, Room 44, Salamanca Barracks, Aldershot, was not eighteen years of age when he enlisted on 1st August, 1919; that he only attained seventeen years of age on 28th December, 1918, and that a letter was sent to the War Office on behalf of the parents, and a reply received advising the parents to communicate with the headquarters. Preston, which they did, and sent his birth certificate with the letter, to which communication no reply has been received; is he aware that the father is in failing health, and there is also a mother along with a son aged twenty-two years, an imbecile, and a girl at school, Private Hurst being the main support of the home; and whether he will issue instructions for his early discharge from the Army, and also issue instructions that youths must not be enlisted unless they prove that they are eighteen years of age?

 Mr. CHURCHILL
The discharge of a soldier under eighteen years of age who mis-states his age on enlistment is only sanctioned in certain circumstances and as a concession. As regards the last part of the hon. Member's question, instructions on the point are contained in Recruiting Regulations, and special instructions on the subject have been issued on two 63W occasions recently. Every possible precaution is taken to avoid enlisting men under eighteen years of age, and I shall be happy to consider any suggestions for improving the system. The production of birth certificates by all recruits is impracticable. I am inquiring into the particular case mentioned, and will acquaint the hon. Member of the result as soon as possible.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 02, 2017, 10:22:20 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)


MEN CALLED UP.

HC Deb 22 December 1916 vol 88 cc1835-6W 1835W


 Mr. PERCY HARRIS (Paddington, S.)
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that men are sometimes called up for military service and then sent back to their homes with instructions to report at a later data; whether in such circumstances the men are not entitled to military pay nor their wives to separation allowances although the men may have lost their civil employment; and, if so, whether he will issue such instructions as will prevent the continuance of this hardship?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
I am afraid that the terms of the question are rather general. I suggest to my hon. Friend that he should give me some specific instances, and I will have inquiries made.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 05, 2017, 10:12:53 PM
ANIMALS DURING THE FIRST WORLD WAR

Description: A trench message dog of the 10th Battalion, Manchester Regiment stands on a sandbagged wall as he waits for a soldier (left) to complete the note he is writing, Cuinchy. One soldier (centre) pats the dog and holds him steady.

Period:First World War

Timberman

PS. The dogs name is Neil ;D
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 05, 2017, 10:14:02 PM
THE BATTLE OF THE SOMME 1 JULY - 18 NOVEMBER 1916

2nd Lieutenant K C Macardle, 17th Battalion, Manchester Regiment, sitting on a bench with a dog. Lieutenant Macardle was killed in action on the Somme, 9 July 1916.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 05, 2017, 10:20:41 PM

North West Film Archive at Manchester Metropolitan University

Film no: 808 NEW COLOURS FOR 1st BN. MANCHESTER REGIMENT *1954
Producer: Army Kinema Corporation
b/w - sound - 16mm - 1m 30s

The Queen Mother reviews the 1st Battalion of the Manchester Regiment at Harrington Barracks, Formby - the presentation of the colours; the commentator relates the regiment"s history; a final royal wave to the camera.
 
Film no: 809 THE FAREWELL PARADE OCTOBER 8th 1929 1929
Producer: Unknown
b/w - silent - 35mm - 1m 16s

The farewell parade to Lt. Col. JR Heelis MC Commander of the 2nd Battalion Manchester Regiment, at Alexandra Barracks, Maymyo, Burma - large assembly of soldiers, in tropical uniform, lined up at attention; flags are paraded and two mounted officers take the salute.

Film no: 2603 THE KING IN MANCHESTER 1934
Producer: Pathe
b/w - sound - 16mm - 6m 4s

Film of King George and Queen Mary"s visit to Manchester and Liverpool. The royal motorcade is seen arriving in St Peter"s Square Manchester. Various civic dignitaries greet their majesties - King George V inspects the Manchester Regiment while Queen mary inspects nurses from the territorial Army. George V addresses the crowds before laying the foundation stone for the Town Hall extension and opening the library (ceremonies not seen). Continues with footage of the royal motorcade arriving at Liverpool. Again civic dignitaries, soldiers and crowds are present. The king makes a speech and performs the official opening of the Mersey Tunnel. The royal motorcade drives through the tunnel and is greeted by crowds and soldiers in Birkenhead.

Film no: 2604 THEIR MAJESTIES PAY VISIT TO MANCHESTER 1934
Producer: British Paramount
b/w - sound - 16mm - 3m 41s

Film of the visit of King George V and Queen Mary to Manchester on 17th July 1934. The Royal motorcade arrives in a crowd-filled St Peters square. The King gives the Manchester Regiments 2nd Battalion a set of silver drums, presented by the City of Manchester . The King delivers a speech before laying the foundation stone for the Town Hall extension and opening the Central Reference Library.

Follow the link for good films on the Manchester's

http://www.britishpathe.com/search/query/manchester+regiment

Timberman








Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 16, 2017, 03:13:35 PM
NATAL GOVERNMENT ON THE LOOK-OUT FOR TREASON.
Evening Post, Volume LVIII, Issue 48, 25 August 1899, Page 5
 
 NATAL GOVERNMENT ON THE LOOK-OUT FOR TREASON.
<.Received August 25, 9.30 a.m.) Capetown, 241.h August. In connection, with the allegation by the London Standard that widespread treason exists amongst the Boers in the Cape and in Natal, the Premier of Natal (Licut.-Col. A, H. Himo) states that the Government is endeavouring to discover and punish the traitors. London. 24th August. A thousand men belonging to the First | Battalion of the Manchester Regiment (formerly 63rd Foot) are leaving Gibraltar for the Cape ; also fifty members of tho Medical Corp

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
 
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 16, 2017, 03:15:22 PM
THE CANADIAN ARMY.
Grey River Argus, 8 December 1906, Page 3
 
 THE CANADIAN ARMY.
 
london Dec. 6.
One hundred and fifty men of the disbanded Manchester Regiment have accepted the Canadian Government's offer to join the Dominion forces, with the prospect of ultimately settling on the land.


© National Library of New Zealand
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 16, 2017, 03:17:46 PM
NEW ZEALAND FORGES.
Taranaki Herald, Volume LIV, Issue 13457, 22 June 1907, Page 5
 
NEW ZEALAND FORGES.
THE NEW ADJUTANT-GENERAL.
 
United Pres« Association — By Electrio Telegraph. — Copyright. (Received June 22, 9 a.m.) LONDON, June 21. Major Tuson, of the Manchester Regiment, has been selected as Adjutant- General of the New Zealand forces.
(Major Tuson was born in 1871. He is a D.5.0., and has seen a good deal of active service.)

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 16, 2017, 03:18:28 PM
Major Tuson's Appointment
Bay Of Plenty Times, Volume XXXV, Issue 5076, 8 July 1907, Page 4

 Major Tuson's Appointment

The personnel of the Council of Defence set; up under the- Defence Act of last year has been completed -by the appointment 4 of Major Harry D. Tuson, of the Manchester Regiment. Speaking about Major Tuson's appointment, the Minister of Defence '(Sir Joseph Ward) said he toad had* [personal interview with? Major Tuson, and also with a number of other of' fleers who iwere tuetttioned f<k the I position. The- new Adjutant-General I was not oitly a smart and capable pflicer, but lie was also a comparatively young man, and that was a j thing to be considered. Heims bora -in 1866. and entered the army as lieutenant in the Border Regiment in 1886. He served in the Indies from that year until 1889, and then w«nt Home for three years. * Another period of three years (1892-4) he spent with the Egyptian Army, and in 1897 he entered the staff . college as a student. During 1899 and 1900 Major Tuson served with his regiment in South. Africa through the operations leading up to the relief of Ladysmith, including the actions of Colenso, Spion Kop, Tugiela, and Pjeters Hill. He continued in the field until July, 1900, when he returned Home. For his. services in South Africa he received the Queen's medal with live clasps. From 1901 to 1905 he was retained as adjutant of» volunteers, a-nd in the latter year he was pro^ moted to- his majority. Besides passji-ng the college, Major Tuson has a 'special certificate for the uiusketry I course at Hy the; and has passed, in •the Persian, French, and Russian
languages, and as an interpreter in Hindustani.* Captain M. t<ascelhis, who has been appointed a mounted infantry instructor, will arrive in the, course of a few weeks, and will stay in New .Zealand for two years. The otfceip iHljunted infantry Instructor is Lieutenant Charles kelson, whose regiment is now serving in India.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
 
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 16, 2017, 03:20:41 PM
Page 56 Advertisements Column 1
Otago Witness, Issue 2554, 25 February 1903, Page 56


© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
 
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 16, 2017, 03:35:38 PM
AN UNLUCKY ENGLISH REGIMENT.
West Coast Times, Issue 3190, 20 June 1879, Page 3

 AN UNLUCKY ENGLISH REGIMENT.

(From the Washington Capitol.)
The recent fate of the 24th Regiment of the British line in Zululand is peculiarly melancholy. The regiment is nearly two hundred years old, having been originally embodied by William of Oransre in 1601, for service in the Flemish War and the Netherlands. Its records show a tour of service unsurpassed by any other regiment of the British army for variety and hard knocks, and it has always been unlucky. Its first experience was a disaster, being nearly annihilated at the battle of Steenkirke when it was hardly two years old. Subiequently it suffered out of all proportion to its comrades at Blenheim, Ramilies, Malplaquet, and was finally relieved and sent home, in the latter part of Queen Anne's war, in consequence of the impossibility of keeping its ranks recruited. Forty years afterwards it had an almost similar experience on the same ground, in the war of the succession, and still later, in the eighteenth century, it suffered immense losses, and was at last captured bodily in the Revolution. Returning to Enstlaud, it enjoyed only a few years of rest when it was sent to Egypt, and participated in Sir Ralph Abercrombie's operations, where its bad luck did not desert it. Then the regiment went to the Peninsula, where {it campaigned five years suffering, as usual, beyond all proportion. It was foremost in the storming of Ciudad Rodrigo and St. Sebastian ; in the defiles of the Pyrenees ; i» the forcing of the passage of the Bidassoa and the Nive, and in the battles of Nivelle, Orthes and Toulouse. It escaped Waterloo only by coming to America, after the first abdication of Napoleon, and participating in the operations which terminated the war of 1812 in humiliation to the arms of England. Then it was sent to India, where it had a hard round of service under Combermere, Hardinge, and Napier, suffering, as usual, excessively in the first Sikh war. It was no novice at the Cape either, for it had already borne the brunt of two Caffir wars aud bad done as much to establish British rule in that quarter as any other regiment that ever served there. In short England has had only one great war in nearly two hundred years in which the old 24th has not borne a hand . That one was the Crimean war, which it escaped chiefly on account of the sympathy at the Horse Guards for its unlucky tradition, and though it was on the roster for foreign service when the Crimean expedition was made up, another regiment was detailed to take its place, and it- was sent to one of the colonies. Finally, after nearly two hundred years of slaughter in every clime and in battle against every enemy of Eng land, civilized or barbarous, the 24th has been annihiliated by savages m South Africa.

The latest rendering of the proverb is : " People who live in glass houses, and who want to throw their arms around the girl, should pull down the blinds."

A letter picked up on a street in Manchester recently ran thus: — " Dear Bill doant kum to see me enny moar, for a wile enny way. Father has got awfully skeered about burglars,and he sets up every night with a double-barrelled shot gunn, watching the back yard. He put moren a pound evled into Smith's big nufoundland dog which Was kumming over the fens after a bone last night — The rose is red, the violet's blue, I wouldn't kum now if I was you— Yours as ever, Nancy."

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 16, 2017, 03:37:02 PM
DEFEAT OF BEN VILJOEN.
Hawera & Normanby Star, Volume XVII, Issue 7264, 29 July 1901, Page 2
 
DEFEAT OF BEN VILJOEN.
Received July 28, 4.85 p.m.
London, July 27. Colonel Benson, on the 9th, fore* stalled Viljoen at Witpoort Bridge, commanding Dullstroom. The Boers were unaware that the bridge was held, and encountered a brisk fire, which oaused them to fall back in confusion. A hundred Boers in reserve, who attempted to prevent pursuit, were routed.
Yiljoen, later, abandoned 16 wagons. Colonel Benson', following unbrokenly for 25 miles, compelled a fight. The action took place at Olifant's River, the British killing six and wounding five of the enemy. The British casualties were few.
The following New Zealanders have accepted commissions: — Lieut. S. W. H. Crawford, in the Norfolk Regiment; A. B. Rose, Manchester Regiment ; R. M. D. Williams, York and Lancaster Regiment. Received July 28, 4.35 p.m.
London, July 27. Of the Seventh New Zealander*, Lieutenant Carter was slightly, and Privates G. W. Oallaway and Petersen severely, wounded at Vereeniging. Victorian Sergeant Buckingham was killed at Rhenoster Kop. A superior foroe, probably of Anister* dam and Pretretiep commandos, on Wednesday forced a detachment of Colonel Sternaoker's Horse to evacuate Breinersdorp, Swaziland. The British fought tb<eir way to Lembobo, 16 miles, losing ten killed and wounded, a few being missing. The Standard's Pretoria correspondent states that Colonels .Benson, Beat son, Spent and Parks, witla four columns, in the vicinity of Dulls iroom, awaited Ben Viljoen's 600 from Bhenoster-Kop going to Nelapruit. VUjoen was not aware that his advance was blocked. A battle was fought on the 7th, the enemy suffering heavy loss. General Ba<jen*Powell has arrived at Southampton, and was accorded an ovation. He said hiß work in South Afrioa was two-thirds finished, and that he would return the moment he bad recuperated.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 22, 2017, 01:13:36 PM
Page 5 Advertisements Column 3
Grey River Argus, 25 June 1915, Page 5
 
 
Alan Maxwell formerly of New-Ply- mouth, and .ex-light weight champion boxer of New Zealand has added to his pugilistic record the privilege of being the undefeated light weight champion of Egypt. Maxwell left New Zealand with the First Expeditionary Force, and in a letter to a friend at Hawera he relates successes in boxing matchos amongst the troops in Egypt "before going to the Dardanelles. Maxwell fought Kid James (9th Manchester Regiment, and a prominent boxer), and knocked out James in the third rouad. He/also had a match with Jones (ex- North of England champion), whom 1-e defeated in the seventh round. Max. avcll then challenged any man in Egypt of 10 stone or under, but left for the Dardanelles undefeated.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 22, 2017, 01:15:12 PM
The Fighting" on the 9th
Grey River Argus, Volume LVII, Issue 10386, 21 November 1899, Page 3
 
 
The Fighting" on the 9th
Very Hot
The Splendid British Fire
The Boers repulsed at all points
A surprise for the Boers
Astounded and Routed
The British victorious everywhere
The Boers lost 800
The Lyddite Shells terrify the Boers
Kept to their guns at Revolver's Point
Boers suffer great loss on 14th
Driven from theip guns and position
(Received November 21, at 0 32 a m) Durban, November 20. The Natal Times correspondent at Ladysmith reports that on the 9th the Boers, covered by heavy shelling on the part of their artillery occupied Kopjes and tidges adjaotnfc to tht British portion
ipn all sides and attacked. ? It was hottest between the junction o£:the Free State and Newcastle, railway lines. The splendid fire of the Rifle Brigade, the Johannesburg Volunteers and. the King's Rifles tn-ice. repulsed the fierce attacks of the Boers, who left; a deep trench fronting the British unguarded, with the result that the Rifle Brigade occupjed it unobserved, reserving! their fire until the Boers re-advanced they reached the edge of the trench the Rifles poured volleys into their ranks. The action astounded the Boers, who bolted, the shells from Artillery completing the rout Another section fired heavy shells until the concentration of the British artillery disabled a mortar. The Manchester Regiment repulsed a third section of the enemy. The. British were victorous everywhere. It is estimated the Boers lost 800. The fire of Lyddite shells so terrified the Boers that their officers had to drive the gunners to their| guns at revolver's point. The Manchester Regiment on the 9th encountered at short range hundreds of Boers hiding in a dor.ga from the Lyddite shells and inflicted great loss on, them. A After the. victory General i White -fifed a salute in honor of the Prince .of Wale's Birthday amidst immense enthusiasm; General. White's .sortie on the 14th provoked a big engagement. The Boers were driven from their guns and position with great loss. There were few British casulties.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 22, 2017, 09:13:09 PM
The Canberra Times, Friday 16 October 1936, page 4

ENGLISHMAN RULES
LONELY ISLE
Every evening at sunset the Union
Jack and an unknown flag carrying a
white seahorse on a dark-blue back
ground are hauled down to the sound
of a Boer War bugle on a two-acre
coral island in the seas, west of Sin-
gapore. It is the island of Palau
Serimbun-the tiniest "kingdom" in
the world, ruled by an Englishman
who does not want to return to
England.
Mr. W. A. B. Goodall, who was
born at Eccles, Lancashire, and later
lived at Bedford, went to the East
after he had served with the 1st Bat-
talion Manchester Regiment at Lady-
smith and other Boer War battles.
As an engineer he undertook Govern-
ment contracts in Malaya and then
joined the Johorc Government service.
At 57 he was "too old" for engineer-
ing jobs, He found that, after many
years m the tropics, he could not
live in England because his blood
had become too ' thin and the cold
made him miserable. He leased the
little island of 'Pulau Serimbun, a
pile of rocks and palm trees, from
the British Government, and established
his own kingdom. He has four
''subjects"-a Chinese who was educated at Cambridge,
two Chinese servants, and a Malay boatman. The
flag with the white sea-horse on the
dark blue background is the national
flag of Pulau Serimbun. With the
Union Jack it always flies from the staff near Mr. Goodall's bungalow,
perched on the peak of the island.

Taken from the National Library of Australia

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 22, 2017, 09:17:26 PM
Taken from Wiki :)

W.A.B. Goodall
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
William Arthur Bates Goodall (1880-1941) was a former British soldier and engineer who achieved a period of popular renown as a voluntary castaway on the island of Pulau Serimbun in the Johore Straits west of Singapore during the 1930s. The island, only two acres in area, had been uninhabited for many years and was considered to be haunted. Goodall came to be regarded as a local Robinson Crusoe in Singapore, however when his story spread through the international press he became known as 'the ruler of the world's tiniest kingdom'.

Early life

William Arthur Bates Goodall was born in Eccles, Manchester in 1880 and was brought up there and in Bedford where he attended Bedford Modern School At the age of 16 he enlisted as a private in the First Battalion, the Manchester Regiment, and fought in the Second Boer War for which he was awarded the King's South Africa Medal and the Queen's South Africa Medal with 5 clasps. Goodall was present at the Defence of Ladysmith and later recalled that when the siege was finally broken by the British under Sir Redvers Buller, he 'sat down and wept for joy' when he was offered a cigarette by one of the relieving soldiers.

Civilian Life

The Regiment was drafted to Singapore in 1903 at which point Goodall, who didn't like the prospect of 'soldiering in the East', embarked on a civilian career. He spent some time in Sumatra and tried his hand at tin mining and tea planting. He secured a position with the Singapore Municipal Commissioners in the Water Department and was engaged on the construction of the Pierce, Gunong Pulai and Pontian reservoirs. He was also credited with the discovery of the Sembawang Hot Springs.
Pulau Serimbun
Goodall had been visiting Pulau Serimbun since the 1920s and had spent increasing amounts of his spare time there. When the contracts on the Singapore Reservoirs ended in 1932, he decided to live there permanently. He described the attractions of life as a castaway:
'Being a Robinson Crusoe is a delightfully peaceful existence for those who are not wedded to the pictures, the club, the hotel bar or a bevy of friends and acquaintances and for those who love nature'
He lived alone on Pulau Serimbun until 1935 before succumbing to loneliness and the rigours of maintaining the island. He engaged a Chinese employee to help him in practical and clerical matters and he was followed by other helpers, a Javanese and another Chinese. His story was given an added dimension by a Fleet Street journalist, H. Harvey-Day, who provided a few embellishments:
'Should you happen to sail past Pulau Serimbun at sunset-a most unlikely occurrence, as it is off the beaten track-the musical notes of a Boer bugle will float over the waves, and the Union Jack together with a mysterious ensign being a white horse impressed on dark azure background, will flutter slowly to the ground. Perhaps you will have the good fortune to observe Mr W.A.B. Goodall erectly saluting during this evening rite, for the island is his private kingdom...There he hopes to live peacefully to the end, ruling his four subjects, who are also his friends-a Chinese educated at Cambridge, two Chinese servants and a Malay boatman'.
The story appeared in the London Evening News and was picked up by other newspapers across the globe, leading to a spate of letters to Goodall from New Zealand, Germany, Britain and the United States
'Talking of correspondence reminds me of some very interesting letters which began to arrive in August last, addressed to Coral island in seas west of Singapore. These letters were of a direct consequence of a long and very inaccurate account of my life on the island which appeared without my knowledge in the Evening News, London. Some of my correspondents seemed to think we lived behind a stockade and spent our time beating off the attacks of savages. They exhorted me 'to keep the flag flying' and so on'
Goodall, whilst seemingly not adverse to the attention, was dismayed by some of the inaccuracies. He did, however, seem to accept a measure of jurisdiction: 'I've been dubbed the laird of Serimbun by the press, and as I'm the only authority on the island, with a staff of two Chinese and one Javanese, I suppose the title is a good one'.

Goodall and Singapore

Despite his geographical isolation William Goodall seems to have played a full part in the social life of Singapore. He corresponded regularly with Straits Times in matters relating to the natural history of Serimbu] He once picked up a Kapal Hantu, a Malayan 'Ghost Ship', which he donated to the Raffles Museum The Manchester Regiment continued to be stationed at Singapore and Goodall was always a prominent figure in the annual commemorations of Ladysmith. He appears to have been an excellent raconteur and he travelled to Singapore to give Radio talks, for example about his life on the island, 'An Amateur Robinson Crusoe', and once gave a broadcast of his reminiscences about the attack of SMS Emden during the Battle of Penang at which he had been an eye-witness.

William Arthur Bates Goodall died at the Johore Bahru Hospital in 1941 aged 61.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 22, 2017, 09:19:29 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)




The West Australian, Monday 30 May 1887, page 3

Private Owen Perry, of the Manchester
Regiment, is in custody at Holywell, North
Wales, awaiting an escort to take him back
to his regiment, from which he is a deserter.
Perry tells a strange story. ' He says he had
served twelve years in the army, and obtained
medals for the Egyptian and Afghan campaigns, the Khedive's Cross, and several
good conduct badges. While in Egypt he
dreamed that under a certain boulder stone
on the highway between Mostyn and Gronant,
an immense amount of treasure lay hidden.
He put the most implicit faith in his dream,
for, on the regiment arriving in England,
Perry deserted, made his way into Flintshire
and began searching for the expected gold.
He made no secret of his dream, and, accompanied by several persons, he has been
for some time hunting for the identical stone
and the buried treasure. Many immense
stones and rocks were excavated, but in vain.
The police became interested in the hunt,
and eventually put a stop to it by arresting
Perry as a deserter. The prisoner was acquainted with the district as a boy, which
may have had something to do with his singular dream.

Taken from the National Library of Australia

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 22, 2017, 09:22:38 PM
ABUSE OF THE WHITE FLAG.
Timaru Herald, Volume LXIV, Issue 3248, 28 April 1900, Page 2
 
ABUSE OF THE WHITE FLAG.
Received April 27th, 9.10 a.m. London, April 26. In connection with the men of the Worcester Regiment, who were recently reported missing, it now transpires that they lost their way while searching for water, stumbled on to a Boer camp, and were captured. An explosion m the arsenal at Pretoria killed ten men and wounded 32 200 French and Italian workmen had a narrow escape. Several Free State homesteads have been burnt owing to the occupants abusing the white flag, sheltering combatants, and concealing ammunition. The Boera captured Mr Vanderhoven, the British Landdrost at Wepener, and sentenced him to death. Received April 27th, 10.35 p.m. Bribbanb, April 27. As the transport Manchester was on the point of proceeding to Pikenba to embark the Bushmen, she struck a reck below New Farm Reach, and evidently knocked a hole m her bottom, as water was found m her hold. She may have to proceed to Bydney for repaiis. The departure of the troops was postponed. Hobarx, April 27. General Joubert died of peritonitis after two days' illness.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 22, 2017, 09:29:28 PM
Please note, For the New Zealand National Library items, the text is a computer-generated text, that is why I have added the picture of the paper clipping as well, as the text has spelling mistakes in it.


TERRIBLE ATTACK
Grey River Argus, 6 December 1915, Page 5
 
 
TERRIBLE ATTACK
CHARGE OF THE MEN IN MASKS.
An officer of a Highland . regiment,' returned wourided - f tokl 'the -frenrtj , siaSys the London . Correspondent of 1 .lie "Manchester. -Guardian,'-**; gaye'rme^saL few of liis impressions during the attack. He said: — • "?•?'• : - . "When I think of it, the. tiling that most' sticks in my mempry''. r waS'-'-''tn ; e awfulnless.. of that attack. Erom jvhcre^l was- at one time?! cbuKlVsee the whole sweep fbrwardl' : 'A^'fer^a's .1" could see, there was a • wayiiig line of bayonets, but tlie terrible thing was our g6t-up. . We w«re w*earing gashelmets, with the big goggle eyes and proboscis sticikng outr v like a 1 ; snout. It's a sort of blue colpur;> and tiiat - must have intensified its^ look. " Ey ery man shoutedias he charged, and the shout comes through the helmet as a queer sort of 'noise. '-, WKsA the Germans must have seen was] $11 these bristling bayonets and -these. terrible masks. ; No. wonder - ; : ttt6y' cleared out as well as they • dould f irpp. tho 'front trenches. There eouhF KaVa been nothing like it in the' histor^iof the world. / . :;; ' r ? '-''_ "After it was over it was strange to see our men,; who in the < heat pf the fight were working like "demons, using up their iio^a : field ; dressings, which they might have needed -at. any moment,.' for the. wotodedvGjermaias,''

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 22, 2017, 09:31:42 PM
FEOM THE FIRING LINE
Grey River Argus, 6 July 1916, Page 3
 
 
FEOM THE FIRING LINE
(The "Times" Service) LONDON July 4. Wounded soldiers continue to arrive from France. There are remarkably few shell and shot wounds, mostly they are suffering from the bayonet.' TJic Gordons led the charge. Ono states: Th.c death, zone was an unfoxgetable sight. We encountered about a thousand corpses in a lump. Limbs were scattered about the battered dofences. There; were some plucky one among the enemy The Bavarians knew how to use the steel. The new big French guns eclipsed the German 16in and wiped out a village on the Somme front on Friday. Each shot swept away a dozen houses. The Morning Post says that a sergeant of the Manchester Regiment said that he was ashamed to bring in lads of- 15 but they were nice boys. They cut off caeir buttons and offered them as keepsakes. There were also a fair number of. niiddlc-aged prisoners. Our men harbour no deep-rooted animosity against the individual -"Germans. They say they are clever people who were compelled to obey tlicir superiors implicitly. They say that the war will teach- a lesson that they will never be top dogs while Englishmen are alive. Lively artillery work on the- Belgian front caused destructive fires at the German positions in Driezriesen and east of Steenstraite.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 22, 2017, 09:33:08 PM
Captain Charlie May
22nd Battalion, Manchester Regiment
Charlie May volunteered to join the army in December 1914. Although raised and educated near London, he had moved north and was living near Manchester with his wife and daughter. May was freelance journalist for the Manchester Evening News and continued to send in articles from the trenches. After training he was assigned to the 22nd Battalion, Manchester Regiment (7th City Pals), who arrived in France on 13 November 1915. Later that month, May was sent to the Somme sector where he and his battalion served in the trenches and prepared for the Big Push.
Charlie May was killed in Danzig Alley on 1 July 1916, the first day of the Battle of the Somme, at the age of 27.

Taken from the Lost Generation.

Timberman

PS. The following is a book written about Captain May

To Fight Alongside Friends: The First World War Diaries Of Charlie May, edited by Gerry Harrison (William Collins, £16.99),
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 22, 2017, 09:55:30 PM
MILITARY ITEMS.
Daily Southern Cross, Volume XXIV, Issue 3444, 30 July 1868, Page 4
 
 
MILITARY ITEMS.
We take the following extracts from the Wellington Gazette and Military Olironiole of April 15, 1868 ;—; — Brevet H. Colville, Colonel 12th Foot, to be General. The Horn C. W. St. Cl*ir, h.p. t late 57th Foot, to be lieutenant-colonel. Lieutenant-Colonel Blyth, Major the Hon. F. Le Poer Trench, and Major flinde, 40th Regiment, have been appointed visitors to the Divisional Military Prison at Aldershott. A survey class was opened at Aldershott on the 23rd February, at which the following officers attended : —Captain Murphy and Ensign Wilkinson, 40th. Captain S. H. Toogood, C Brigade, R.H.A., has returned from leave, and Captain A. J. Rait, B Brigade, R.H.A., has proceeded on leave. Promotions: Captain B. J. Stansfeld, from the 38th Foot, to be captain in the 12tb,rice Cr»whall, who exchanges. 43rd: B. M. Tod to be captain, vice Bernerß, who retires. 68th: H. J. R. Tilliers Stuart to be captain, vice Mason, who retires. W. 8. Greene to be lieutenant, vice Villiers Stuart. T. A. H. Williams to be ensign vice Greene. 70th : Lieutenant H. H. Traves has sold out.
 On the Ist April, the 57th arrived at the camp, from Manchester. The marching in strength was 24 officers, 605 men, 71 women, 112 children, 5 horses. 
The regiment is quartered in L B and Q line 3, South Camp, and attached to the first Brigade. Two companies of the 68th were despatched to Wigan, in consequence of the rioting of the colliers in that district, on the 2nd April. Deputy^Commissary-General E. Strickland.. C.8., has been removed from Manchester to unattached, andD.A.C.G. W. 0. Chisletfc, from Portsmouth to unattached. Dr. B. Styles has been promoted to the rank oE surgeon, and transferred from the 40th Foot to the Staff. Schoolmaster J. Keans has been transferred from the 12th Depdt Battalion to the Royal Horse Guards, and W. Aldwell from 10th Depot Battalion to 12th Depot Battalion. From the same paper of May 15, we extract the following :— Second Captain J. F. Betty, 4th Brigade C Battery, has been transferred from Aldershott to to Woolwich, and Lieutenant A. J. Rait from B Brigade, R.H. A.,to C Brigade,R.H. A,, D Battalion, Aldershott. Promotions and appoiatments : To be Captainß— 12th Foot: J. W. Lloyd (P.). 14th Foot: John Lawrence (P.). 65th Foot: W. Byam (P.). 68th : C. E. Beatty-Pownal (P.), to be lieutenant. 12th Foot:C.Hely (P.). 14th Foot: C. OH. Trench (P.). 65th: H. F. Marryat(P.). To be Ensigns— 74th Foot: M. Wyatt (P.). 65th: H.W. Price (P.). 68th; A. H. Stanley (P.). To be Adjutant, 65th— Lieutenant J. H. G. Holroyd vice Byam. Exchange —Ensign C. A. Coles, 96th Foot (12th Foot). The following officers have retired : —Captain R. E. Dawson, 12th; Captain J. L. Davids, 14th; Captain T. Chamley, 65th; Captain R. A. Clement, 68th. Ensign Churchill, 50th Foot, had joined the depfit of his regiment at Chatham. Deputy-Commissary-General E. Strickland, C.8., has been transferred from unattached to Nova Scotia, and D.A.C.G. W. C. Chislett, from unattached to Bermuda. v Surgeon-Major H. F. Robertson, Staff, haa retired on half-pay.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on July 24, 2017, 11:00:19 PM
Typical layout of a trench system.

Click on the picture to make it bigger.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on August 01, 2017, 09:46:47 PM
SUPPLY—EGYPTIAN EXPEDITION (GRANT IN AID), 1882–3.
HC Deb 02 March 1883 vol 276 cc1327-49 1327

Only part of a very long debate

 SUPPLY—considered in Committee.
 (In the Committee.)


SIR HENRY FLETCHER

said, there were two questions he would like to ask the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer or the noble Marquess the Secretary of State for War, connected with the troops sent from India. It would be satisfactory to the House and the country to know whether it was not the fact that Indian troops immediately they left their own country received double pay; and also whether the European troops sent from India to Egypt received the Indian pay, or whether, on their arrival in Egypt, they were placed on European pay? He believed there were only two European Infantry regiments which were sent from India—namely, the 72nd, who were now called the Seeforth Highlanders, and the 63rd, who were now called the Manchester Regiment.

 MR. A. F. EGERTON

said, he did not wish to draw the House into an Indian debate, and, therefore, should only refer very briefly to the remarks made by the hon. Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. H. H. Fowler). Even granting the truth of the remarks of the hon. Gentleman, which he could not—assuming that the hon. Member was right in saying that the late Government left a deficit to the present Government of upwards of £2,000,000—they were justified in complaining that the present Government had, irrespective of the legacy of debt, very largely increased the Estimates. The country had now to provide for a much greater Expenditure than had ever had to be provided for before. He might also complain, as a taxpayer, that he had to pay a considerably higher scale of taxation than he had ever been required to pay before. These, however, were points which ought rather to be discussed on the Budget than on Supplementary Estimates. He rose principally, as a new Member, to remark upon the re-casting of the Estimates since he had anything to do with finance; and he ventured to offer, though rather late in the day, his protest against the present system of taking the extra receipts in aid of the Votes. He confessed he had some belief in the soundness of the old system; in his opinion, under the old system a better control was exercised over the great spending Departments than could be exercised under the present system. Not having been in the House for two or three years, he could not say whether the question had been threshed out and settled after considerable discussion; but he could not acquiesce in the change of system, although his opinion might perhaps differ from that of some of his hon. Friends around him. He was disposed to think the sum of £500,000 which had been ageed upon between the two Governments of England and India was an approximately fair sum for the Indian Government to pay; and, under the circumstances, he should not offer any opposition to this Estimate.

 THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON
I only rise to answer a question put by the hon. and gallant Member for Horsham (Sir Henry Fletcher). He asks whether the Indian troops received double pay when serving beyond their own Frontiers? I do not recollect at this moment what the exact regulations are, but, no doubt, they received increased pay when they served out of their own country, though I do not think it was precisely double pay. As to the British troops taken from India to serve in Egypt, they, of course, received the same pay as the troops sent from this country to Egypt. It would obviously be impossible to have British troops serving together under the same circumstances, but under different rates of pay.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on August 01, 2017, 09:47:39 PM
EGYPT (THE EXPEDITIONARY FORCE) —FIELD ALLOWANCE.

HC Deb 26 April 1883 vol 278 cc1152-3 1152

 SIR WILLIAM HART DYKE
asked the Secretary of State for War, Whether it is a fact that the officers of the 1st Battalion Manchester 63rd, and the 1st Battalion Seaforth Highlanders 72nd, having received six months' field allowance during service in Egypt, in common with officers of other Regiments, have since been called upon to refund the same; and, if so, whether any justification can be found for treating these Regiments specially summoned from India to serve in Egypt in a less generous manner than our English troops?
 
 MR. J. K. CROSS
Sir, the officers referred to were not considered entitled to the advance of six months' field allowance because, up to the date of their landing in Egypt, they continued to receive those higher rates of Indian pay which include the provision of field equipment, to meet the cost of which the advance in question was made to officers proceeding on service from England. From the date of their landing in Egypt, however, they received the War Office daily rate of field allowance. The regimental authorities of the Sea-forth Highlanders drew the whole of the six months' advance, and have been called on to refund. The claim of the Manchester Regiment to the advance was disallowed. The India Office has now under immediate consideration the claims of the officers to the whole of the six months' advance.

 SIR WILLIAM HART DYKE
said, the Question was based solely on the justice of the claims of these officers in comparison with the treatment of officers summoned from England. Could a positive assurance be given that these officers would not be placed in a disadvantageous position in a pecuniary sense as compared with the officers who went out from England? Unless he got a satisfactory answer, he should be obliged to bring the unfortunate matter before the House.

 MR. J. K. CROSS
said, he had already stated that it was under consideration at the India Office; but the ceases named were scarcely parallel. Until the troops from India arrived at Suez they received higher rates of pay, which English officers did not enjoy until they arrived in Egypt. The cases were not parallel; but the matter would receive consideration.

 Â© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on August 01, 2017, 09:48:23 PM
QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS.

HL Deb 04 May 1883 vol 278 cc1836-7 1836

VISCOUNT ENFIELD
rose to ask the Secretary of State for India, Whether the officers of the 1st Battalion Manchester Regiment (late 63rd) and the 1st Battalion Seaforth Highlanders (late 72nd), having received six months' field allowance during service in Egypt, in common with officers of other regiments, had since been called upon to refund the same; and whether those officers ceased to receive the usual rates of Indian pay and allowances after their arrival at Suez in August last, although the regiments to which they belonged were not placed upon the English establishment till the 10th of October? The noble Viscount said, these two regiments landed at Suez in the latter part of the month of August, and on the 10th of October were placed on the English establishment. It was contended that they should not receive higher pay and allowances than other officers; but they had received six months' pay and allowance for duty in the field as well as the other officers who formed part of the Egyptian Expedition; but the six months' field allowance which was issued to the 63rd and 72nd Regiments had been withdrawn. With regard to the 63rd Regiment, he was informed that although the quartermaster had in his hands six months' allowance for the officers, it was not issued to them; but the officers in the 72nd Regiment had received the six months' pay and allowance and had since been compelled to refund it. Either these regiments were entitled to receive Indian pay and allowances, or they were entitled to receive six months' field allowances. He was quite certain that an unintentional oversight had occurred, and that there was no intention on the part of the Government to deprive the officers of these two distinguished regiments of any allowances to which they were justly entitled.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY
My Lords, the fact is the officers referred to were not considered entitled to the field allowance on quitting India, because up to the date of their landing in Egypt they continued in receipt of those higher rates of Indian pay and allowances which include the provision of field equipment, to meet the cost of which the advance in question was given to officers proceeding on service from England. From the date of their landing in Egypt, however, they received the War Office daily rate of field allowance. The regimental authorities of the Seaforth Highlanders drew the whole of the six months' field allowance, and have been called on to refund. A similar claim by the Manchester Regiment has been disallowed. On representations, however, subsequently received, the India Office has under immediate consideration the claims of the officers to the whole six months' advance.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on August 01, 2017, 09:49:08 PM
ARMY CONTRACTS—BRIGADE CAMP SUPPLIES.

HC Deb 28 May 1900 vol 83 cc1495-6 1495

MR. GRANT LAWSON (Yorkshire N.R., Thirsk)
I beg to ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether the Army Supply Department will divide the contracts for the supply of each class of articles required for the brigade camps to be formed this summer, so as to allow the smaller traders in the locality of the camps to tender.

MR. J. POWELL-WILLIAMS
In most cases the camps of the Regular forces and the Militia will be provided under existing district contracts. In certain cases special contracts will be necessary, and some are being made with local traders. The Volunteers are granted an allowance, and in many cases make their own arrangements, but they can come under existing contracts if they like, and obtain what they require on repayment.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on August 01, 2017, 09:50:07 PM
ARMY PAY—THREE-YEAR MEN.

HC Deb 20 March 1900 vol 80 c1308 1308
 
SIR CHARLES DILKE (Gloucestershire, Forest of Dean)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether the Government have now decided if the three-year men enlisted for the Army are to have the extra 3d. of pay recently granted to men enlisted on longer terms, and now extended to the Militia.

MR. WYNDHAM
Yes, Sir. Three-years men will have the messing allowance issued to them on the same terms as other soldiers.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on August 01, 2017, 09:51:27 PM
A strange story and not down as a Rev on the CWGC site ???


MAN WHO SAW HIS DUTY

ROMANTIC CAREER ENDED ON THE BATTLEFIELD. The war has ended many remarkable careers but it has ended none more dramatin or pathetic than that of Captain Rev. William Richard Benton, of the Manchester regiment who fell in the battle of the buimiie late in August. Captain Beaton's father lived ut Heine Bay, Kent, and was a stockbroker. "Dick," as, he was called was educated at I'ramliny-haiu College, Suffolk. On leaving school he joined his father, but later on' took it into his head to join the Marine Artillery as a private. There he was popular with officers and men, and was fond of sport. J Then he made another plunge. He deserted, and went out to Australia. The Boer War called for an Australian contingent; Benton joined it and 1 fought in South Africa.. After the war he joined the Cape Peninsula Police, and found employment on Robben Island, where the lepers are interned. Becoming religiously inclined, Mr. Benton offered himself for holy orders, and arrangements were being made for him to go to Lichfield Theological Collage when conscience asserted itself, and the deserter went Home gave himself up at the Marine Artillery Barracks, Portsmouth., as a deserter, was tried by court-martial, and served its sentence — commuted as to duration. The deserter then went through his theological course^ and was ordained and obtained his first curacy at Walsall Lung trouble induced him to return to -South Africa^ and there he laboured for swyear at a lonely spot in the northwest of the Cape Colony, called O 'Kiep. Then he went to. St. Barnabas, Capetown. " There Mr. Benton made his acquaintance "with the lepers of Robben Island, and he always went over to the melancholy spot when he could to the great joy of the lepers. Just' before leaving the. Cape for England -in ,1912 I lie spent three months on the leper, is- } land, engaged in chaplain duties there. That time will always bo rein Pin bored hy these outcasts;-
Mr. Benton became curate at Bearsted, near Maidstone, and on war break ing out he went to France as a military chaplain. His experiences of German frightfulness and gas were too much for him and he trained to become a fighting man, and as lieutenant, and afterwards as captain, in the Manchester. Regiment he did his share.

Name:   BENTON
Initials:   W M
Nationality:   United Kingdom
Rank:   Captain
Regiment/Service:   Manchester Regiment
Unit Text:   12th Bn.
Date of Death:   17/08/1916
Casualty Type:   Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference:   II. F. 12.
Cemetery:   HEILLY STATION CEMETERY, MERICOURT-L'ABBE


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on August 01, 2017, 09:57:08 PM
COURTS MARTIAL IN SOUTH AFRICA.

HC Deb 20 March 1900 vol 80 c1306 1306

 MR. H. D. GREENE (Shrewsbury)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether any and what sum has been allocated in these Estimates in respect of the expenses of courts martial in South Africa, and the payment of the Deputy Judge Advocate; and whether he can state the number of records of courts martial which have been remitted to the Judge Advocate General's Department in England from South Africa since the commencement of the war, and the name and standing of the legal adviser of the Acting Deputy Judge Advocate in South Africa; and whether courts martial, in all departments of Her Majesty's military and naval forces serving on land, including colonial contingents, are directed by one Deputy Judge Advocate in South Africa.

 MR. WYNDHAM
Provision for the expenses referred to in paragraph I has been made under Vote 1, sub-head A., for extra expenditure, occasioned by the war in South Africa. Since the commencement of the war the records of 458 courts martial have been sent to England. The Deputy Judge Advocate in South Africa is a barrister of nine years standing and has no legal adviser. Courts martial in all departments of the military forces in South Africa, including colonial contingents, are directed by the Deputy Judge Advocate—courts martial on Naval forces are outside his jurisdiction.
 
 MR. HUMPHREYS-OWEN (Montgomery)
Do the figures include courts martial held under martial law on persons not serving Her Majesty in South Africa?

 [No answer was returned.]

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on August 01, 2017, 09:57:54 PM
BOER DISREGARD OF RULES OF WAR —THREATENED DESTRUCTION OF JOHANNESBURG.

HC Deb 20 March 1900 vol 80 cc1304-5 1304

 MR. HENNIKER HEATON (Canterbury)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether a threat was made by the Boers to level or burn down Johannesburg; and if so, whether the Boers were informed that any wanton destruction of British property during the war would be charged to the Boers and the amount levied on their farms and other property.

 THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. Wyndham,) Dover
The questions raised are outside the province of the War Office. I understand, however, that the Colonial Secretary intends to issue a proclamation on the subject.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on August 01, 2017, 09:58:47 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)




NAVAL AND MILITARY PENSIONS AND GRANTS.

HC Deb 09 November 1916 vol 87 cc433-6W 433W

 Colonel Lord HENRY CAVENDISH-BENTINCK
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that many widows and old people unable to earn anything for themselves, who before their sons entered the Army were dependent on their earnings for subsistence, find the sum now allowed them as separation allowance inadequate to maintain life; and whether he will cause inquiry to be made into the question with a view to increasing the sum allowed by the State?

 Mr. FORSTER
I can assure my Noble Friend that this has not been overlooked, but I cannot do more at present than refer him to my reply to the hon. Member for the Bridgeton Division of Glasgow on the 2nd November.

 Mr. YEO
asked the Secretary of State for War if his attention has been drawn to the case of Thomas Martin Allen, a soldier discharged as no longer fit for war service after serving one year and 201 days with the Colours, who was in France from 4th January, 1915, to 17th January, 1916, and whose certificate of discharge states he has done his duty well; is he aware that Allen has a wife and seven children whose ages range from fifteen years to two years, and has been compelled to apply for and been granted outdoor relief; and is he aware that the Rochdale Guardians passed a resolution that the attention of the War Office should be drawn to the case of Thomas Martin Allen, a permanently disabled discharged soldier with a pension of 4s. 8d. per week, who has been compelled to apply to this board for relief, and that this board desired to urge upon the War Office the desirability of immediate reform, in the scale of pensions with a view to making them sufficiently adequate to save permanently disabled soldiers and sailors from pauperism?

 Mr. FORSTER
Inquiries are being made, and I will let my hon. Friend know the result.

Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT
asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether he is aware that wives' and dependants' separation allowances are frequently reduced, the only explanation offered being a mere statement that the reduction has been made to refund an over-issue; whether he is aware that many of the recipients are not aware of any over-issue having occurred; and whether he will try to secure that in such cases when a reduction is made the nature of the over-issue will be explained?

 Mr. FORSTER
The intention of the Regulations is that explanation shall be made in such cases, but if the hon. Member will send me particulars of any cases of failure, I will endeavour to secure any necessary improvement.

 Mr. BILLING
asked the Secretary to the Admiralty whether the wife of a sailor gets a smaller separation allowance than the wife of a soldier; and, if so, what steps he proposes to take to remove this grievance?

 Dr. MACNAMARA
The reply to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. As regards the second part, I do not think the term "grievance" can be properly applied. I will send my hon. Friend a copy of the White Paper issued on 22nd September, 1914, which describes fully the reasons why it has been deemed 435W equitable that the scale of separation -allowances for the wife and children of the seaman should differ from that adopted for the wife and children of the soldier.

Mr. BARLOW
asked the Secretary of State for War, with regard to the case of Private W. Spencer, No. 1258, 1st Battalion Manchester Regiment, whether the mother of this soldier, who is now reported missing, is only entitled to the usual allowance for thirty weeks after he is notified as missing; and whether, at the end of thirty weeks, she can receive no more than 4s. 6d. a week pension?

 Mr. FORSTER
. As regards the allowance, the reply is in the affirmative. I am inquiring into the pension, and will let the hon. Member know the result.
 
 Mr. BARLOW
asked the Secretary of State for War, with regard to the case of Sergeant Blakeley, No. 6982, of the 8th Lancashire Fusiliers, transferred on 4th August, 1916, to the Border Regiment, whether he is aware that since mobilisation Blakeley has had 1s. 6d. stopped out of his pay, and his wife has received only 1s. 4d. of this, and that, in spite of repeated applications, the Territorial authorities has ignored her claim to the additional 2d. a day, amounting now to about £3 8s.; and will he say by what authority this has been done?

 Mr. FORSTER
Inquiry is being made, and I will inform my hon. Friend of the result.

 Mr. BARLOW
asked the Secretary of State for War, with regard to the case of Private J. Price, No. 10472, 15th Lancashire Fusiliers, of 24, North James Henry Street, Salford, whether ho is aware that on coming out of hospital at the end of October last Price was informed by the paymaster that he was £6 13s. 2d. in credit; that £4 was then sent to the soldier to Chapel Street, Leigh, instead of Chapel Street, Salford; and, seeing that on the error being pointed out the soldier was informed that he was only £3 15s. in credit, he will say who is responsible for these mistakes and what has become of the difference, namely, £2 18s. 2d.?

 Mr. FORSTER
Inquiries into this case are being made, and my hon. Friend will be informed of the result.

 Mr. HOGGE
asked the Secretary of State for War if he is now in a position 436W to state what action the Government intends to take about increasing the amount of separation allowance?

 Mr. FORSTER
No decision has yet been reached

 Mr. HUGH LAW
asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office the amount of separation allowance which is to be paid to Mrs. Manus O'Donnell, mother of Private John Gallagher, No. 412, military headquarters picket, Arklow; and if he will explain the delay in dealing with the claim, seeing that this soldier enlisted as long ago as the 5th May, 1915?

 Mr. FORSTER
Inquiries will be made and my hon. Friend informed of the result in due course.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 21, 2017, 10:22:36 PM
Name:   ROTHWELL Alfred
Initials:   A
Nationality:   United Kingdom
Rank:Private
Age   25

Regiment/Service:   Manchester Regiment
Unit Text:   20th
Date of Death:   04/04/1916
Service No:   17474
Casualty Type:   Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference:   II. B. 7.

Comments  Enlisted in Ardwick 9.11.1915. k.i.a by shell fire 10pm to 10.30pm
at Morlahcourt, trench name Kingston Rd - one killed that night. 20th Battalion
Manchester Regiment B Company Platoon 8.


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 21, 2017, 10:43:42 PM
Sergeant Richard Tawney

22nd Manchester Regiment

Richard Henry Tawney was a noted economic historian, educator and activist. Born in Calcutta in 1880, the son of a Sanskrit scholar, he was educated at Rugby School and Balliol College, Oxford.
Tawney was badly wounded, aged 36, in the Battle of the Somme. His account of his experience in The Attack (published in the Westminster Gazette in August 1916) is a memorable piece of writing. Following a period of convalescence he worked at the Ministry of Reconstruction. In 1920, Tawney took up an appointment at the London School of Economics, where he became Professor of Economic History in 1931 until 1949.
Richard Tawney died peacefully in his sleep In January 1962.

Taken from the Lost Generation.

Second photo from Wikipedia.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 21, 2017, 10:44:19 PM
Sergeant Richard Tawney

22nd Manchester Regiment

THE ATTACK
By R. H. Tawney.

If you go to this link you can read the whole article as it was printed in the Westminster Gazette in 1916


http://leoklein.com/itp/somme/texts/tawney_1916.html

The first few lines

The priest stood in the door of a wooden shanty. The communicants stood and knelt in ranks outside. One guessed at the familiar words through the rattling of rifle bolts, the bursts of song and occasional laughter from the other men, as they put their equipment together outside their little bivouacs, bushes bent till they met and covered with tarpaulins, or smoked happily in an unwonted freedom from fatigues. An hour later we fell in on the edge of the wood, and, after the roll was called by companies, moved off. It was a perfect evening, and the immense overwhelming tranquillity of sky and down, uniting us and millions of enemies and allies in its solemn, unavoidable embrace, dwarfed into insignificance the wrath of man and his feverish energy of destruction.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 03:36:13 PM
IN THE TRENCHES
A CHRISTCHURCH MAN'S EXPERIENCES. The following interesting letter has been receive-ft by Mr. J3. Nordon from Mr. C. F. Humphries, formerly a Christchurch resident, and a prominent Canterbury footballer :— [ ' i "In the Trenches, / November 10, 1914. "Since my last letter to you my life hus bjeen full of excitement and adventurti As you were doubtless aware 1 joineU the Army as a private in the Army ''Service Corps, but was soon promoted to the rank of sergeant at 6s per day. My duty was that of a clerk in a base/ office, some one hundred and fifty r^ilos from the firing line. This position was not at all my idea of the worfy 1 for a strong and healthy New Zealunder, so I applied for a transfer to tlte Manchester Regiment, and in so doinjg had to revert to the ranks, snd I ths.nk my pay is something like 1/2 per 4ay now. It was not long before
I was promoted to lance-corporal, so here I am- as lance-corporal in the British Army Eeg'ulars. "The long marching at first played up with my feet, but 1 walked the blisters off, and after a week my.f:ill pack did not seem half so heavy. Although untrained,. I am pleased to say I have never fallen out once, and I am not far off when there is anything doing. "Life in the trenches or dug-outs is not so bad as long as the weather is kind, but this last couple of days wo have had a heavy fall of snow and plenty of frost, so a person docs not want a veiy vivid imagination to picture the discomforts .under these conditions. But it is wonderful what a human being can put up with when needs must. I have not had a shave or. a wasli for fourteen days now, bur the cause is just and the heart is good, so why worry? Most of the lighting is done at night, and the favourite time for a German attack is just before claybreak. In the day we do most of our sleeping, and the big guns play their little part. The conditions are regards food and clothing in the trenches are perfect. We feed well— bacon, cheßse, bread, jam, the good 'bully beef,' and last, but not least, Tommies' comforts, 'rum and tobacco.' "The trenches we are in are without any Red Cross workers or a doctor and if a man is unfortunately hit at daylight he has got to linger on till dark, Avith only a field bandage (put on by a comrade) before he can be removed to the dressing station, generally two miles behind the trenches. I have witnessed some wonderful cases of fortitude; one I will mention, of a private called Watts, who lay all day long with his both legs shattered by this dreadful shrapnel, and when the stretcher-bearers came for him the trench was too small to allow the stretcher to pass, so he was put into a blanket, and, holding on to the top and trying to help the stretcher-bearers, was dragged with his shattered limbs through the trenches to a place of safety, and during all this he must have been in untold agony, but never a murmur did he make. I only mention this as an example of the great, pain and suffering that goes on, which could be relieved a good deal by the aid of drugs, and if there were enough Red Cross members to man the trenches. "Quite one of the most pleasant times here is mail time, and the green cover of a Weekly Press was one of the most pleasant surprises I have had. Since my short time in the army 1 have done my best to advertise 'God's Own Country,' and quite a, number arc making a weekly allowance, so when the war is over they aie off to fresh fields and pastures new. .1 was pleased to see quite a number of familiar faces in the 'boys for the front/ and the Tommies were' greatly taken with the response our little country has made. I have been much surprised that their arrival in Frar.ee has not 'been announced yet, but hope to see: them in" this quarter before long now. "The Manchester Regiment, I forgot to mention, is attached to the Indian I'Jxpeditionary Force, and mixing with the native regiments such as the Sikhs and Gurkhas, is a novelty I shall never forget."
PIDDLC

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 03:39:32 PM
SERGEANT C. F. G.HUMPHRIES
HONOUR FOR A NEW ZEALANDER. - (FROM OUR OWN CORRESPONDENT.) , LONDON, 16th March. . There' is a New Zealand name in the list of warrant officers, non-commissioned officers, and men who have just been awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal for gallantry in the field. It is that of Lance -Corporal (Acting- Sergeant) Cecil F. G. Humphries, of Christchurch, who is attached to the Ist Manchester Regiment, Indian Expeditionary Force. At the outbreak of the war, Mr. Humphries offered his services to the War Office, and was drafted to the Army Service Corps, with, which he went to Orleans about the middle of August. After a while, being anxious to get to the scene of action, he was able to obtain a transfer to the Ist Manchesters (Indian Expeditionary Force), though to make the change meant sacrificing the stripes he had earned in the A.S.C. However, promotion soon came, and lie was made lance-corporal on Christmas 1 Eve ; now he is acting-fiergeant. In Christchurch 'he is well known in football and golfing circles. So far he seems j to be the_ first New Zealander who has ' gained this coveted distinction. MANY 'CONGRATULATIONS It may be explained that Mr. Humphries and his mother, Mrs. A. R-. Rowse, of Mataura, came Home a year ago for a holiday. Directly war was declared, Mr. Humphries enlisted, as already stated, in the Army Service Corps. Mrs. Rowse, who is remaining in_ London for the time being, hae> received many congratulations on her son's success at the front. When the High Commissioner lieard the news he wrote to Mrs. Rowse : "You must be a proud mother that your son should, within so short a time, have come to the front. He is a credit to his family and an honour to his country.*' The medal was awarded for gallantry at tho Battle of Givenchy, on 20th and 21st December, when the Indian Force was_ hard pressed, but Sergeant Humphries only heard of his good foriunu on 28th February, when Brigadier-General Strickland pinm»d the, ribboti on his breast. The War Office record of the incident is : "For conspicuous gallantry and coolness at Givencny in the attack of 20th and 21st December, and for endeavouring to bring into cover the body of his company commander, who had been killed." Sergeant Humphries was wounded at tht: recent battle of Neuve Chapelle, and is now in hospital at Sevenoaks.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 03:41:18 PM
A BOOM IN RECRUITING RECORD DAY'S ENLISTMENT

Evening Post, Volume LXXXVIII, Issue 56, 3 September 1914, Page 7

A BOOM IN RECRUITING RECORD DAY'S ENLISTMENT

RUSH OF MEN FOR SERVICE. (Received September 3, 9.15 a.m.) LONDON, 2nd September. There are many indications of a boom in recruiting. In London the number of recruits on Monday was a record. Hundreds in Manchester were unable, to obtain medical examination, and marched in procession to the Town Hall and complained of the delay. The London Scottish Second Battalion now numbers 750. A third battalion will probably be necessary. Hundreds of the City of London Volunteers were obliged to join outside battalions. At Newport 583 recruits joined on Monday, making a total of 2561. Many companies are offering generous concessions to enlisting employees. Some grant full pay during service. A West Country bishop has inaugurated a movement for a Footballers' Legion. There is a movement' among ex-public school boys and university men to raise five battalions, increasing eventually to twenty. A hundred recruiting centres have been opened throughout the United Kingdom. One London centre enrolled 150 men in the first hour. Lord Kjtchener has 'approved the first battalion being attached to the. Middlesex Regiment.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 03:42:12 PM
Page 4 Advertisements Column 4

Evening Post, Volume LXII, Issue 153, 27 December 1901, Page 4
 
LOCAL AND GENERAL, ;?? — — — An alteration in the time-table for the San Francisco mail has been under consideration, but it has now been definitely decided that none shall be made. The steamers -will leave Auckland on Saturdays and San Francisco on Thursday, as at present. Lieutenant A. Rose (son of Captain Rose), who went away with the Sixth Contingent, is now ' an officer of the 3rd Manchester Regiment, stationed at Ald- ershot. Captain Rose's elder son, Lieu- tenant J. Rose, of the Fifth Contingent, is coming out to Australia by the Ormuz, and will probably reach Wellington next week. Mr. Samuel Brown, the employers' re- presentative on- the Arbitration Court Bench, is at present in Wellington. The Court will resume its Auckland sittings on the 6th January, and expects to be kept employed in the Northern city until the end of the month. Amongst other business which will be brought before it in Auckland will be a claim for compen- sation made against the Government by a co-operative labourer injured in the Upper Thames district. The Court will sit in New Plymouth after leaving Auck- land, and will then come on to Welling- ton, where more business requires its at- tention. , The Hon. T. Y. Duncan, Minister for Xands, nrrived from the South by the ftotonmhuna this . uorring,

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman

Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 03:48:31 PM
THE PRINCE OF WALES' BIRTHDAY AT LADYSMITH.

Timaru Herald, Volume LXII, Issue 3114, 21 November 1899, Page 2
 
 
THE PRINCE OF WALES' BIRTHDAY AT LADYSMITH.

ANOTHER HOT ENGAGEMENT. THE RIFLE BRIGADE OCCUPY A BOER TRENCH. AND ASTONISH THE BOEBS, A COMPLETE ROUf. EIGHT HUNDRED BOERS KILLED. Received November 21at, 0.32 a.m. Durban, November 20. The Natal Times 1 correspondent at Lady smith reporta that on the 9th the Boers, covered by heavy shelling on the part of their artillery, occupied the kopjes and ridges adjacent to the British position on all sides. The attack waa the hottest between the jane tion of the Free State and the Newcastle railway lioea. The splendid fire of the Rifle Brigade,, the Johannesburg: Volunteers and the King's Rifles twice repulsed the tenacious attacks of the Boers. The Boers left a deep trench fronting the British unguarded, with the result that the Rifle Brigade occupied it unobserved, reserving their fire until the Boers readvanced. When they had reached the edge of the trench the rifles poured volleys into their ranks. This action astounded the Boers, who bolted, shells from the artillery completing the rout. Another section fired heavy shells until the concentration of the British artillery disabled their mortar. The Manchester Regiment repulsed the* third sectioa of the enemy. The British were victorious everywhere. It is estimated that the Boers lost 800 men. The lyddite bo terrified the Boers that the officers had to drive the gunners to their guns at the revolver's point. Received November 21st, 0.50 a.m. Durban, November 20. The Manchester Regiment on the 9th encountered at short range hundreds of Boers who were hidden m the dongafrom the lyddite shells. They inflicted great loss on them,
After the victory Sir G. White fired a salute In honour of the Prince of Wales' birthday, amid immense enthusiasm. SirG. White's sortie on the 14th provoked a big engagement. The Boers were driven from their guns and their position with great loss. There were few British casualties. Capetown, November 20. A Renter's message states that Mr Charchill was made a priaoner and sent to Pretoria. Ho is wounded m the hand. Twenty-six transports, with 27,000 men have arrived, including 9000 infantry and 18 guna intended Jor Durban and 1000 for East London. Borne of the prisoners at Pretoria are suffering from acurvy. They complain of the inferiority of the tinned meat. The New South Wales Lancers have arrived at Naauwpoort, where they were received with enthusiasm.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:09:38 PM
His successor was George Miller who had been bandmaster of the 1st Life Guards since 1908. He was the son of Major George Miller, formerly bandmaster of the Royal Marines, Portsmouth, and grandson of Bandmaster George Miller of the Manchester Regiment.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:24:30 PM
 A BATTLE-FIELD PICTURE.
Otago Witness, Issue 2394, 18 January 1900, Page 8
 
 
A BATTLE-FIELD PICTURE.
The Times correspondent describes with exceeding vividness how the Highlanders, supporting the Manchesters and Imperial Light Horse, scaled the hill at Elandslaagte : — Just as the latter reached the foot of the ridge, the storm, which had been threatening' so long, burst, and in a few moments everyone was drenched to the skin. The shower was sharp and short, but by the time it was over the Gordon Highlanders were among the stones which covered the cresl o£ the ridge. Dropping shots were falling' about them ; a couple of men were hit, another shot dead, and then the supports were into the firing line and filling wp the gaps in the line of the MnnoliAstAi- ?R*(ri T nAnt. fl.tirl t.hn T.iffht Hpftfl.
There was a short plateau to cross, then a saving dip, with a climb to the main plateau again. Cheerily the men responded to their officers, and wave after wave of kilts and khaki swept up to the sky line. r Here they wavered and dropped, for of the first sections only one in four could pass. A moment fioy checked — dead, wounded, and quick seemed sandwiched together among the boulders. Then their officers shouted them up. Ag-xia the sky line darkened with lines of men bent double. Again they seemed to meifc away ; still they were fed from below. And then all were over ; but not all, for 50 &lout fellows lay prostrate in the clefts of the rain-washed stones. And when the dip was passed, what a task lay before them ! They were called to face 600 yards of rough, rookstrewn open, intersected at intervals with barbed wire fences. At the end rose a kopje, which commanded the plateau from end to end, as a, butt would command a rifle range. No one could be seen, but all could feel that that final kopje was alive with small bore rifles. Stumbling forward among the clones, blundering over the bodies of their comrades as they fell before them, the men pressed on. It had ceased to be a moment for regimental commanders. Even sections could barely keep together. It was the brute courage of the individual alone that carried them on. Men stopped, lay under stones, and fired, were shot as they lay or rose from cover to rush another dozen yards. Men and officers were slaughtered in. batches at the fences. But here in. pliees the rain of bullets had done the work of wire-cutters. More than half way- was won, and yet, though the summit "of the kopje seemed one continued" burst of shrapnel, tho fire from it in no wise slackened. "It "seemed that the men had done all that could be done. Colonel Dick Cunyngham was shot- in two placas, half the officers of the Gordon Highlanders were down. The level crest seeme<l strewn with coimtless casualties. The critical moment had arrived. It v/as to be victory now or never. Colonel lan Hamilton ordered a bugler to sound the "charge." Out rang the bugle, such buglers as were unhurt took up the note ; Drum-major Lawrence, of the Gordon Highlanders, rushed out into the open and headed the line, playing the fatal ca.ll. The sound of the Devonshire bugles came up from the valley bottom, and the persistent rhythm of their firing gave heart to the flank attack. Waves of flittering bayonets danced forward in the twilight. Twenty determined men still held the final kopje. Again the bugles sounded the " advance," then tne " cease fire " rang out. There was a lull in iihe firing ; men stopped and stood ub clear of cover. In a moment the Boers re-opened and swept away a dozen brave men. But the dastardly ruse was a last and futile effort to save the day. Lieutenant Field, at the head of his company of the Devonshire Regiment, waa into the battery with the bayonet ; the men who had served the guns till the steel was 6ft away from them were shot or bayoneted. Devons, Manchester. Highlanders, and Light; Horsemen met and dashed for the laager in the dip below. It was a wild three minutes : men were shouting "Majuba!" Then m honest cadence the " ceas3 fire " sounded, th-^ pipes of the Gordons skirled the regiment?', quickstep, and we saw a sight which thrilied us all,' the white Sa.g fluttering from a Mauser carbine held by a bearded Boer.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:26:00 PM
Mercury (Hobart, Tas.)     Monday 8 January 1917
MILITARY FOOTBALL MATCH.

AUSTRALIANS DEFEATED.
LONDON, January 7.
At Colchester yesterday the Manchester Regiment team beat the Australians
at Rugby football by 22 points to eight.
Gwynne and Huston scoured tries, and
Hannan converted one

Taken from the National Library of Australia

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:26:44 PM
Argus (Melbourne, Vic.)    Monday 27 March 1916

Anzacs at Football.
At Caterham (England) on Saturday a
New Zealand football team defeated the
Welsh Guards by 27 points to 0
A Manchester Regiment defeated a weak
Australian team at Colchester by 10 points
to nil

Taken from the National Library of Australia

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:27:21 PM
Argus (Melbourne, Vic.), Monday 1 November 1920, page 7

Heroism in Mesopotamia.
V.C. for British Officer.
The Victoria Cross bas been awarded to
Captain George Stuart Henderson, D.S.O.,
M.C., of the 2nd Manchester Regiment, who
died fighting near Hillah, in Mesopotamia.
He saved the situation after having been
twice wounded.

Taken from the National Library of Australia

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:28:05 PM
Mercury (Hobart, Tas.), Monday 11 December 1916, page 8

RUGBY FOOTBALL
SOLDIERS AT PLAY.
LONDON. December 10.
At Rugby football yesterday the
Manchester Regiment team beat the Australians by 26 points. The Manchester Regiment
team is one of the strongest military teams in the country Gwynne and
Greenhaigh scored tries for the Australians, who had good forward players but
inferior backs
The New Zealand Postal Cor ps beat
Canada by three point to nil Johnston scored the try for the New Zealanders
near the finish of the game.

Taken from the National Library of Australia

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:28:42 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)

The Canberra Times, Friday 19 August 1938, page 4

ARAB TERRORISM IN
PALESTINE" -
JERUSALEM, Wednesday.
A British officer, Second Lieut." R. F. 'Griffiths, of the Manchester, Regiment, was killed, when a land mine exploded under a lorry near Acre.


Taken from the National Library of Australia

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:29:35 PM
Mercury (Hobart, Tas.), Thursday 2 November 1916, page 6

PERSONAL.
The death is announced by cable
message from Shanghai of Huanghsing. Who led the Chinese revolution
in 1913.
A cable message from London states
that Second-Lieutenant Adrian Balfour,
formerly of Sydney, and the Rev.
Arthur Walker, who was serving as a
lieutenant in the Manchester Regiment,
and was a son of the Rev. John Walker,
chaplain in the Commonwealth Military
Forces, has been killed in action.

Taken from the National Library of Australia

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:32:21 PM
Mercury (Hobart, Tas.), Tuesday 8 August 1916, page 5

FOR VALOUR.
THE VICTORIA CROSS,
STORIES OF DEVOTION TO
DUTY.
J LONDON, August 6.
It is announced in the "London Gazette" to-day that the King has been
pleased to award the Victoria Cross to
the following officers and men: -
. Lieutenant Batton-Poole, of the
Munster Fusiliers, who directed a party
of raiders with unflinching courage. Al-
though half-mutilated by bombs, he
cheered on his men until he received
two other wounds and fainted.
Captain Green, of the Royal Army
Medical Corps, who rescued an officer
hung up in wire entanglements, dressed
his wounds in a shell hole despite the
firing pf bombs, rifles, and grenades,
and in attempting to bring in the officer was himself killed.

Private Stringer, of the Manchester
Regiment. For keeping back the enemy single-handed until he was without a grenade. His gallant stand saved
the flank, and enabled his battalion to
steadily withdraw.

Taken from the National Library of Australia

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:33:13 PM
Argus (Melbourne, Vic.), Friday 1 July 1921, page 7

Rebels Surrounded.
54 Arrests in Military Raid.
An official report from Dublin states that
while an Irish Republican Army regimental
gathering was proceeding at an inn at
Waterfall, County Cork", Crown forces
raided the premises. The rebels stampeded, but 45 were arrested. Walter Leo
Murphy, a rebel brigadier, was shot dead
while trying to escape. Murphy was
"wanted' for the murder of an officer of
the Manchester Regiment, and for kidnapping three officers who have not been heard
of since, also of a Royal Irish constabulary
sergeant and a civilian.

Taken from the National Library of Australia

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:34:54 PM
TWICE AN OFFICER
Evening Post, Volume LXXXVI, Issue 86, 8 October 1913, Page 11



TWICE AN OFFICER
? ROMANCE OF A "RANKER." [FROM OUR OWN CORRESPONDENT.] LOKDON, 29th August. Captain and Riding master C. M. Lang, of the 5th Dragoon Guards, of Aldershot, was killed on the railway this week while traveling from, Aldershot to Surbiton. Captain Lang, who was fifty years old, was the son of a former vicar of Bentley, Hampshire. He had had a remarkable career. His first commission was in the Manchester Regiment, and as a lieutenant he took part in the famous march from Kabul to Kandahar. While serving with his battalion in India he was the victim of circumstances which are said to have altered the whole course of a brilliant career, for he lent a large sum of money to a fellow officer, who died without redeeming his loan, and Lang resigned his commission. Still young, and with great ambition to distinguish himself in the army, he joined the" 15th Hussars as a private under an assumed name. His gift in training horses, combined with splendid horsemanship, led to his' being sent to Canterbury, where he quickly qualified as a riding master and was given a commission of lieutenant and riding master of the 5th Dragoon Guards on 4th October, 1902. Ho then gave his correct name, but few knew it was the same Lang who had fought in India. When the King visited Aldershot this May his Majesty personally congratulated Captain Lang for the admirable jumping display by the recruits of the 5th Dragoon Guards, which he organized and carried out.

PETONE TECHNICAL SCHOOL ? , MONTHLY MEETING.

Rev. A. Thomson occupied the chair at the monthly meeting of the Petone Technical School Board, held last evening. There were also present : Messrs. D. M'Kenzie, J. G. Castle, A. E. Roots, W. Cox, A. A. R. Hope, and J. W. M'Ewan. Accounts amounting to £14 8s 3d were passed for payment. It was reported that the surplus in hand from the school " social" amounted to £4 10s. The money is to be spent on a picnic to be held on 27th October. In his monthly report, the director (Mr. J. H. Lynskey, 8.A.) stated that the Hutfc Park Committee had agreed to let the kiosk on the park for shearing classes at a rental of £1 10s, plus 14s 8d insurance — the building to be insured for £200. Mr. Nichol, expert for Dalgety and Co., had approved of the building. Preliminary arrangements had been made for the early starting of the classes ; the estimated cost of the fittings, appliances, etc., being, £24. Mr. White, a shearing expert, had offered his services gratis, and ft was proposed to give the first lesson on Friday, in the Technical School. Messrs. Burridge, Nichols, and White had given invaluable assistance in paving the way for the class, and Mr. Burridge estimated that about 600 sheep would be available for shearing. Mr. Ackroyd, of the Petone Woollen Mill weaving department, had given interesting lectures during the past month. , It was suggested that the director be empowered to make enquiries in regard' to securing a room at Lower Hutt, with a view to establishing a class there next year in English and arithmetic. The report was adopted.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:50:24 PM
THE STORY OF KHARKI.
Tuapeka Times, Volume XXXII, Issue 4750, 5 May 1900, Page 4



THE STORY OF KHARKI.
The story of khaki is one of the industrial romances of the century.
It is worthy to rank with that of the Jacquard loom, the mercerising of cotton, or the invention of the bleaching powder. It has never been told at length, and the time for doing so has not yet come. But the following brief account will serve to show that,
as in other discoveries of far-reaching importance, energy, and patience, and skilled knowledge were brought into play before success was at length attained. The use of an olive dye in connection with the clothing of our troops in India dates back for many years. The tint was devised, in the first instance, by native dyers, who used for the purpose of pigments which they were unable to fix, and also unable to prepare, in a uniform state. A traveler for a Manchester firm was one day taking a railway journey in Northern India, and found himself in the company of an Anglo-Indian military officer. The conversation drifted to cotton drill, and the regimental officer made the remark that the first Manchester man who succeeded in producing an absolutely fast khaki dye would make his fortune. The remark made a deep impression upon the traveler, who, upon returning home, set to work to study the reason why the olive and brown dyes hitherto used always washed out after a few applications of soda. He put himself into communication with a skilful dyer, and the two experts set themselves the task of discovering a method of fixing these dyes upon cotton yarns or fabrics. Many experiments were made, and at length an effective dye was obtained, but, unhappily, it yielded at once to the soap and soda test. Instead of giving up in despair, the two inventors pursued their researches, and one day the dyer produced a piece of fabric which, upon being tested, was found to retain its color even under the severe application of a caustic alkali. He was requested to try again, and again he tailed. Then the two colleagues put their heads together, and went over the conditions again very carefully, and they at length observed that, whether accidentally or not, the cloth in which the dye was fast had been dipped in a dish made of a certain metal, whereas all the unsuccessful experiments bad been made with a dish of another metal. The invention was assured from that day, and fortune was the result.
The first deliveries of fast khaki were produced by means of mixtures of oxide of chromium and oxide of iron, which were carried into effect by mixing a solution of chrome alum and sulphate of iron, and, after being dipped into this, the cloth was passed through an alkaline solution, such as carbonate of ammonia or potash. Darker shades were obtained by redipping, and the darkest shades of all by drying the fabrics before passing them through the alkali. This process is now open to any dyer to employ, but improvements in it are the subject of a patent which is still in existence, and within the last eighteen months a rival genius has patented an altogether different process, which is being used in the manufacture of goods already supplied to various Governments.
The so called Government shade ;s; s that which has been adopted by the War Office, and it is now in general use at the seat of war, while it has been adopted by the New Zealand Government as well. The shade used in certain branches of the Indian Army and other Asiatic States is somewhat darker, and a ruddy tint which differs from both of them is supplied for use in Egypt. There are many, difficulties in the production of a uniform tint, as firms who have gone into the trade without previous experience are .learning to their cost. .During the present pressure, the Government factory at Pimlico has had to deal with deliveries in which the shade of khaki varied from ' light to dark in one and the same piece o£ cloth. When khaki cotton is said to be fast-dyed, the meaning is that no amount of washing, either in laundries at home or by native dhobies upon the banks of running streams in India, will affect the color. The rapid test for arriving at this result | consists in boiling the fabric for a prolonged period in a solution of caustic soda or a similar alkaline reagent. By means of peroxide of hydrogen it is also determined whether the color is fugitive under the prolonged auction of sunshine and air. It is never pretended that the color is impervious to the attacks of acid, and indeed the new fashionable material is being introduced for ladies' dresses at Home in a form in which striped and spotted designs are produced upon the cloth in a printing machine by the action of an acid, which turns the parts affected to a whitish hue. It is for this reason that when khaki uniforms are worn for a length of time the wristbands and collars show lines of white, where the dye has 1 been driven out by the contact of the acid perspiration from the skin. There is another fortune awaiting the inventor who produces a dye which is fast not only to alkali, but also to acid.
Up to the present less success has Attended the attempt to Impart a khaki shade to woolens. Not only is the dye less permanent, but the peculiarities o£ the woolen fiber make it difficult to produce any uniformity of tint. Half a dozen pieces of sergo, dipped in the same vat, will give almost as many variations of color. For this reason troops when clothed in serge cannot present the smart appearance of a regiment wearing cotton drill.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:51:15 PM
THE STORY OF KHARKI.
Tuapeka Times, Volume XXXII, Issue 4750, 5 May 1900, Page 4 (cont)


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Timberman

Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:54:23 PM
IN A SHATTERED VILLAGE
Grey River Argus, 27 April 1915, Page 6



IN A SHATTERED VILLAGE
RAGTIME FROM THE GERMANS A private of the Ist Battalion Manchester Regiment sends the following letter to his old schoolmaster: — The trench we were in was about Co or 70 yards from; the first German trench. The 'Germans seemed very lively ; in fact, one sang a song. We could' hear them quite plainly, and we kept our rifle fire down a bit until he had finished. The song was Alexander's Ragtime Band."- After he had finished we could hear his comrades praising 'him, and he sang two more choruses. They, were the "Chocolate Soldier" and "Way Down the Swanee River."' The 'first song •was of course, a skit to us, and the others were a skit to the Indian natives who are along witch' us I fancy he must have been called up from England, because he sang it in pretty « good English, They used to shout all sorts of things to us, and, of course, we returned the compliment. T dare not state the name of the place, but the Germans had been driven out of the village a few weeks back, and an. awful state they left it in. All the roofs and walls of the houses were more or less battered in, and inside, oh ! what a terrible sight — chairs, tables, beds, pots, and other furniture smashed all up and thrown all over the place. The people that had had to leave — God help them, they must have suffered. Some were splendid homes, too. When I saw it. all, bad as it is being out here. I was glad I had 'listed to do my little share towards vengeance for these poor people's sufferings. The church antl churchyard, oh ! what a terrible sight. Most of the gravestones in the graveyard were broken, and aill over the show. Most of the stones in a French churchyard have a crucifix on — not cut in the stone, but a small monument differing in sizes and metal; but these were the same as the rest, scattered up and down, but, what I noticed particularly not many of them were' broken. The stonework of the church itself had been battered in many places, and by the holes in the roof you could see where the shells had hit Inside the church was indescribable. But what struck me most, and my pals also, the altar of the church was undamaged. I remember when T was in England of reading about such a case, and I have often wondered if that was the same church. You say the people in England don't realize what the war is like; but the people in the villages  where the Germans have not been are just the same. They go on working and carrying on as if they did not know there was a war on at all and if you take a potato or other vegetable to cook for your dinner, they 'go very near mad. They don't realize they would lose all if the Germans came, and that it is the British soldier that is mostly responsible for the Germans being so far back as they are, and it is no use trying to explain to them, it only makes them worse— they don't understand us. T have picked up a bit of French, but only words c-f what T will be likely to enquire for. Well, I am in the best of health and spirits at present. Anyway, there is nothing like old England. And we all hope "that it will soon be over.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 23, 2017, 04:55:59 PM
THE STARVING SURVIVORS OF THE LIGHT BRIGADE.
Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXIX, Issue 8789, 27 May 1890, Page 2


THE STARVING SURVIVORS OF THE LIGHT BRIGADE.
Lieutenant Wightman, the secretary of the Balaclava Committee, has been interviewed by a Kent paper, and after furnish ing a graphic description of the fatal charge and the experiences of the Light Brigade men as prisoners in Russia, proceeded :—: — "At a meeting of the Balaclava Committee on the sth of October last we resolved to rescind a rule of our constitution that forbade us asking assistance from the general public. The committee has existed so far for the purpose of celebrating the anniversary of the charge of tbe Six Hundred by a dinner at St. James's Hall, London. We have been a sort of mutual admiration society, gathering to toast pur noble selves and each other, subscribing ourselves and asking subscriptions from our army connections only for the purpose of providing a free annual meal for our less fortunate comrades-inarms. We others have paid for our own meal, and that was all there was to it. But we are all getting older every year, and with the lapse of time, while many have died, a good number have fallen into dire misfortune. Our subscriptions have fallen off too. We have now but £21 in the bank ; and last year we collected only £3 altogether, and were unable to entertain our old comrades who could not pay their own railway expenses and other incidentals. "Lord Cardigan's words to the survivors of the Six Hundred the morning after the charge had been repeated to me, although I wasn't there to hear them. He said : '•Men, you have done a glorious deed ! England will be proud of you, and grate| ful to you." If you live to get home, be sure you will all be provided for. Not one of you fine fellows will ever have to seek refuge in tho workhouse !' Now, you peri haps know lioav that promise has been ! kept. I cannot tell you, even from my secretarial records, the full extent of the j misery that has fallen upon my old comrades in the Charge of the Light Brigade ; but I can give you a few details that should be made widely public. If we cannot make the authorities open their hearts, we may at least cause the public's ears to tingle. Of course, many of us are still in situations ; some of us are comfortably off ; we boast, indeed, one alderman (Mr Kilvert, of Wednesbury) in our ranks , but here is my list of the old, worn-out, and miserable h roes of that day, for whom our general fund is about to be opened. I cannot give you particulais as to pensions, but remember that a sergeant's pension under the old system is but Is 3d a day, a private's is, of course, less, and some have no pensions at all. I put my own old regiment first : — i Survivors of tiih: Six Hundred. 17th Lancers. Private Brennan — In a London workhouse. Private Marshall — Worked in a machine shop at Lincoln till he lost three fingers; now disabled and in extreme want. Private Holland, of Ormskirk-No resources. Private Smith — Cripple, in the Strand Union, London. Private Burns, of Northampton ; Trumpeter Brown, and Private Butler — Addresses unknown, but all aged and very poor for several years past. 13th Hussars. Private Coopbr — Sweeping roads for the Kensington Vestry; will soon have to give over. Private Mayhew — Miserably poor. 11th Hussars. Sergeant Brown — Stood outside Lewis's, Manchester, placarded, "One of the Survivors, &c.;" has worked at an explosives factory; left through illhealth ; seventy years of age, and failing •, pension, Is 3d a day. Private Spring — In extreme poverty. Private Glanister, of Liverpool — Ditto. Private Richardson — Served twelve years, no pension; has Crimean medal with lour bars, and the Turkish medal ; suffers from stricture, has lost sight of one eye, the other going past help. Drifts from workhouse to common lodging-house when he gets a little help from concerts, &c, then back to workhouse The only Manchester man now surviving of the Six Hundred. Private Lawson — Lost an arm in the charge, has been lucky enough to get into Royal Hospital, Chelsea, by which he forfeits his pension. Bth (King's Own) Light Dragoons. Private Doyle — Almost starving in Dublin; was Duke of Cambridge's orderly at Inkermann, got £4 from H.K.H., after earnest solicitation and four months' waiting, last year. The £4 came from the Cambridge Fund, supported by public contributions. Trumpeter Donoghue — Living on charity ; can get no employment. Private Rogers — Helpless through age and disease ; in Witbington Workliouso. Private Keegan, Birmingham — Out of work. Private Grant — In tho Eoyal Hospital, Chelsea, making two only of the survivors so fortunate. Privates FarrelJ, Carroll, and Brewington — Known to be without work and in great distress. I am sick of asking help from the War Office. What the committee desire is to touch the public conscience through the Press, to inaugurate a really national movement, and see if we cannot sharun the authorities into action. This is the first time that the Balaclava Committee has bent round the hat, and I will only say in conclusion that any letter will reach me at Kensington Vestry isffice, London ; or Mr Herbert, at 119, Warwick-road, Kensington ; and their contents be properly acknowledged by myself."

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 09:52:53 AM
[Press Association] GLENCOE AND ELANDSLAAGTE.
West Coast Times, Issue 11431, 24 October 1899, Page 3



[Press Association] GLENCOE AND ELANDSLAAGTE.
INCIDENTS OF THE FIGHT. (Received Oct 24, at 12.30 a.m) Durban, Oct 23. General Joubert'ts main colnmn commenced ineffectively shelling Glencoe at long range on Saturday. Col Yule is, however, strongly entrenched. It is estimated that the Boers lost 800 at Elandslaagate, and from 1000 to 1200 at Glencoe, chiefly during the pursuit. The British loss at Elandslaagie was 100. When Meyer's column at the battle of Glencoe was almost defeated Erasmus's column from Hattingsprnit appeared ;
but the Reserve Battery and the Leicester I Regiment promptly checked the advance of the Boers. The Maxims did much execution. While the hill was being stormed the Bders faced the artillery and rifle fire with great determination, but fled at the sight of the bayonets. Finding that the British cavalry caused a stampede among their horses, they made a strong stand in the valley, buc finally fled in a rabble. Lieut Col. J. Sheraton, in the staff of the Infantry Brigade, and Colonel Gunning were killed in the final charge on the hill.
(Received Oct. 24 at 9 a.m.) The British captured 6 guns at Impati hill. The rain and fog stopped Joubert's attack on Saturday, which was intended to anticipate General French's clearing of Commandant Koch's forces from Elandslaagte. A 14 year old trumpeter belonging to the Fifth Lancers shot three Boers with a revolver at Elandslaagte. Later reports show Koch survives, but his son was killed. Three Boer guns were captured / (Received Oct 24 at 9.30 a.m) Commandant Pretorious and Colonel Shiel, chief organiser of the Boer armaments, were wounded and made prisoners at Elandslaagte ; Commandant Ben J. Viljoen was killed. The British officers killed include Colonel J. H. Scott Chisholm, sth Lancers.
v (Received 00t 24, at 12.30 a.m.) THE FIGHTING IN THE WEST. Three hundred and fifty Boers were wounded at the attack on Maf eking and arrived at Pretoria and Johannesburg. The British recaptured the waterworks at Mafeking. Several Australians are with Colonel Baden-Powell, including Sergt. Phillips, who was wounded. The Boers captured Kimberly waterworks, devastating the Burroundiog country and investing the town with the object of capturing Rhodes.
SPECIE INTERCEPTED The cruiser Tarta* at Delagoa removed from the Avondale Cattle £25,000 specie for the Transvaal, and £300,000 more on the passage is certain to be intercepted. (Received Oct 24, at 12. 55 a.m) A BRILLIANT ENGAGEMENT. Durban, Oct 23. Elandslaagte was a brilliant engagement The Boers occupied some rocky hills and their position was of exceptional strength. The 42nd and 21st British batteries ! and the Natal batteries opened fire at 4000 yardß. The duel was a short one. The Boer shells were well directed and bursting well, but were soon silenced, although they re-opened fire on the slightest opportunity. The guns were served with great courage. During the duel moanted Boers engaged the Imperial Light Horse, but retreated when the guns were turned on them.
While the Devont attacked the front the Manchester Regiment and the Gordon Highlanders under Colonel Hamilton turned the left flank, rushing the position in the face of a heavy fire at night fall, bayoneting many Boers, who defended with great tenacity.
The Fifth Dragoons and Fifth Lancers thrice charged through the retreating Boers and did great execution.
THE PRISONERS The wounded prisoners include Gene 1 ral Kock, commander of the Boers, who Bince died of his wounds, and General Joubert's nephew. The prisoners are numerous; including Commandant DemielHon, Col Schiel, Commander of the German corps. Many Germans and Hollanders are among the captured. The train with 9 British prisoners was recovered. Major General French directed the battle. SUPPLIES FOR THE CAPE. Brisbane, Oct. 23. Fifty horses have been purchased for 7 South Africa. A tender is accepted for 3000 cases of pressed beef. THE QUEEN'S MESSAGE. London, Oct 23. Tho Queen wrote to Lord Landsdowne, Secretary of State for War, "My heart bleeds for those dreadful losses again to day. lireat success, I fear, is very dearly bought. Convey my heartfelt syinr pathyand admiration to the troops." f> The Lord Mayor, in response to' the Duke of Cambridge's appeal, opened a

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 09:55:00 AM
[Press Association] GLENCOE AND ELANDSLAAGTE.
West Coast Times, Issue 11431, 24 October 1899, Page 3



[Press Association] GLENCOE AND ELANDSLAAGTE.

Continued

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 09:56:34 AM
Dual Commissions.

HC Deb 23 January 1902 vol 101 cc661-2 661
 COL. DENNY (Kilmarnock Burghs)
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether it is now, or has been for some time, permissible for an officer in the Regular Army to hold at the same time a commission in the Militia, Yeomanry, or Volunteers.
 
 MR. BRODRICK
It is contrary to regulations for officers on full pay to hold Dual Commissions, but occasionally the Secretary of State for War for the time being has exercised his power on certain occasions, and has relaxed this rule in the interests of particular corps which would otherwise have been seriously inconvenienced.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 09:58:26 AM
NATIONAL RESERVE (BOUNTY FOR RE-ENLISTMENT).

HC Deb 22 February 1916 vol 80 cc565-6 565 566

 Mr. STEPHEN WALSH
asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether, in response to an appeal from the officer commanding, many members of the 1st class National Reserve, 5th Manchester Regiment, enrolled themselves on the 3rd September, 1914, in the Territorial battalion for immediate active service, that they left England six days later for Egypt, and have since been through the campaign in Gallipoli; and whether, under such circumstances, the Department will favourably consider the claim of such members for a similar bounty as has been paid under paragraph 2, Army Order 28, dated 19th September, 1914?

 Mr. FORSTER
The whole subject of these gratuities has been very carefully, considered on many occasions, and I am afraid I cannot agree to any reopening of the question.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:03:47 AM
AN OLD SOLDIER'S STORY. A REMINISCENCE OF THE ZULU CAMPAIGN.
Evening Post, Volume LIV, Issue 47, 24 August 1897, Page 2




AN OLD SOLDIER'S STORY. A REMINISCENCE OF THE ZULU CAMPAIGN.
. Mr. Richard Groves owns a comfortable house and grounds at Hyde Park, near Rookwood, Sydney, and is spending the remainder of a stirring life in honourable retirement. To a reporter who recently interviewed him he made the following Interesting statement: — " I -am a native of Manchester, England, and am now fifty-five years of age. I formerly served in the 3rd Buffs, now called .the East Kent, of which distinguished regiment I was Quartermaster-Sergeant. It is about seventeen years ago since the Zulu campaign of '79, that" I began to suffer agonies from shooting- pains in my ' arms and shoulders, cramps, and a feeling of numbness through my entire body. Before this, with the exception of some slight accidents which only laid me up temporarily, I never had a day's illness., I now felt so bad that I naturally sought medical advice, but with poor success, as none of the faculty could tell me what I was suffering from. Indeed, it was a lady doctor, a friend of my wife's, who really diagnosed my symptoms. She told me plainly that it was indigestion, brought on by damp, exposure, shortness of food, and forced marches, for I need hardly tell you that soldiering in Zululand in the face of the enemy was no child's play. My appetite was very poor. I suffered very much from sleeplessness, -was very weak, toast and tea were what I chiefly subsisted on. I thought I had come to the end of my tether, and one doctor told me the same thing. These sufferings Continued till last December ('96). One day in that month I picked up a pamphlet with a picture of the Royal Family on the cover, which' a man" bad thrown into our garden. It was an advertisement of Dr. Williams' Pink Pills fdr Pale People, and I read of a case, somewhat similar to mine, in which a cure had been effected by this medicine. I therefore determined to try it, and got a box to start with." " Did you experience any relief from your sufferings from the contents of that box, Mr. Groves?" " Well, I obtained sufficient relief to warrant the in continuing with a course of them. 1 took-one pill at a time, and gradually increased the dose according to the directions. My appetite from the second day after taking them improved, my breathing was much better, -andtas I went on with the course I gradually grew stronger. Before taking the pills an ordinarj' conversation would quite knock me up, it seemed to take all my breath away. I have taken in all some thirteen or fourteen boxes, and have benefited all along, in fact I feel so much better that after finishing my present supply I shall discontinue .taking them. I have, however, recommeuded them to all my friends, and one gentleman in particular was quite amazed to learn that Dr. Williams' Pink Pills was the only medicine I had taken." " Will you give us permission to publish this statement. Mr. Groves ?" " Well. I see no reason for withholding it, and I firust that the publication will be th« means of inducing other sufferers to try the effect of this marvellous compound." Dr. Williams' Pink Pills have cured numerous cases of paralysis, locomotor ataxia, spinal disease, rheumatism, and sciatica; also of diseases arising from impoverishment and vitiated humors of the blood, which cause scrofula, rickets, chronic erysipelas, consumption of the bowels and lungs, ansemia, pale and sallow complexion, general muscular weakness, loss of appetite, palpitations, pains in the back, nervous headache, early decay, all forms of female weakness and hysteria. These Pills are not a purgative. They are genuine only with the full name, Dr. Williams' Pink Pills for Pale People, and are sold by chemists and by Dr. Williams' Medicine Company, Wellington, N.Z., who will forward (post paid) on receipt of stamps or post order, one box for 3s,. ior ; half-dozen for 15s 9d. They are unrivalled as a tonic for both sexes.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:04:28 AM
SICKNESS AMONGST BRITISH TROOPS.

HC Deb 18 October 1916 vol 86 cc524-5 524

 Mr. CHANCELLOR
asked the Secretary of State for War if he will fulfil the promise given on 18th November, 1915, by giving the number of cases of and deaths from typhoid and paratyphoid fever which have occurred amongst inoculated and un-inoculated men, respectively, in the 525 British Army on the Western' Front from August, 1914, to the latest date for which they are available?

 The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the WAR OFFICE (Mr. Forster)
Up to 25th August, 1916, 1,501 cases were finally diagnosed as typhoid fever amongst the British troops in France, 903 amongst inoculated men and 598 amongst non-inoculated men. There were 166 deaths, 47 of which were amongst the inoculated and 119 amongst uninoculated. To the same date there were 2,118 cases of paratyphoid fever, 1,968 amongst inoculated men and 150 amongst men who had not been inoculated. There were 29 deaths, 22 of which were amongst the inoculated and 7 amongst the uninoculated.

Mr. CHANCELLOR
asked the total number of cases that occurred amongst inoculated and uninoculated men, respectively, in the Gallipoli Campaign diagnosed as dysentery, cholera, trench fever, pyrexia, typhoid, paratyphoid, and Gallipoli fever, with the mortality resulting from each?

 Mr. FORSTER
I could give my hon. Friend the number of cases diagnosed as dysentery, cholera, trench fever, pyrexia, typhoid, and paratyphoid, but the Army Council has not information as to how many cases under each category occurred amongst inoculated and uninoculated men, respectively.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:05:25 AM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)


DISCHARGED FROM ARMY (WOUNDED BOY).

HC Deb 29 February 1916 vol 80 c908W 908W

Colonel HOPE
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether a boy, wounded in Gallipoli and, after discharge from hospital, discharged from the Army on the claim of his father as being under seventeen, is entitled to any allowance while still unable to work owing to the effects of his wound?

 Mr. TENNANT
The fact that the boy was discharged otherwise than for disability would not in itself debar him from pension. If my hon. and gallant Friend will communicate to me particulars of the case, I shall be able to reply more definitely.

 Mr. GRANT
asked when the dispatches relating to the last months of the operations in Gallipoli, of the evacuation, and a list of honours conferred will be published?

 Mr. TENNANT
No, Sir, I cannot at present make any statement on this point.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:07:15 AM
DISCHARGED SOLDIERS (TREATMENT).

HC Deb 17 October 1918 vol 110 c282 282

 Lord HENRY CAVENDISH-BENTINCK
asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the failure of the Pensions Ministry to secure either adequate treatment or training for the discharged soldiers, he will appoint a Committee to inquire into the reason of the failure?

 Mr. BONAR LAW
I cannot agree to the statement contained in the first part of my Noble Friend's question. The answer to the second part, therefore, is in the negative.

 Mr. HOGGE
Does my right hon. Friend know the proportion of men who are now under treatment, and the number of men who could receive treatment but for the inadequacy of the provision; and does he, knowing those facts, say that the first part of this question is inaccurate?

 Lord H. CAVENDISH-BENTINCK
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that only one in three of the discharged soldiers is receiving adequate treatment, and that only one in ten is receiving any training?

 Mr. BONAR LAW
Clearly, my Noble Friend cannot expect me to have the figures in a case of this kind; but I am satisfied that all that can be done is being done by the Pensions Ministry.

 Mr. PRINGLE
How can the right hon. Gentleman say that the treatment is adequate if he does not know the figures?

 Mr. HOGGE
Does the right hon. Gentleman know that these figures are the figures of the Ministry of Pensions?

 Mr. SPEAKER
We must get on to the next question.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:08:26 AM
MANCHESTER REGIMENT VOLUNTEER UNIT (COLONEL H. B. MOSS).

HC Deb 23 March 1920 vol 127 c266W 266W

 Sir M. BARLOW
asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether he will have inquiry made into the case of Colonel H. B. Moss; whether he is aware that Colonel Moss was re-employed captain and adjutant of a volunteer unit of the Manchester Regiment on the 6th March, 1917; whether he has been refused any gratuity for this period of service owing to a War Office instruction which was issued after his appointment; and, if this is so, whether it is fair to alter to his detriment the apparent terms on which an officer is employed after he has accepted the employment?

 Sir A. WILLIAMSON
This officer was first appointed on 6th March, 1917, as stated, the terms of the appointment not being then defined. On 23rd May a circular defining terms and explicitly stating that gratuity under Article 497 would not be granted was addressed to all county Volunteer regiments. I can find no record that this officer, whose duty it was, as adjutant, to keep himself closely acquainted with all such matters, made any claim or protest. He accepted confirmation in the appointment in September, 1917, at which time there was no doubt about the terms.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:11:06 AM
GRATUITY FORFEITURE (PRIVATE J. HALPIN).

HC Deb 28 April 1920 vol 128 cc1228-9 1228

 Lieut.-Colonel HURST
asked the Secretary of State for War and Air 1229 whether he is aware of the forfeiture of gratuity and service imposed under the Army Act, Section 73 (i), upon Private J. Halpin, No. 93528, late 7th Battalion, Manchester Regiment; whether he is aware that the alleged desertion, to which this soldier confessed, consisting of absenting himself without leave from Heaton Park on 6th September, 1918, until reporting himself 21 days later to his own unit at the front in Flanders; whether he is satisfied that such confession is valid; and whether, having regard to the true facts of the case, he will see his way to extend clemency to this soldier?

 The SECRETARY of STATE for WAR and AIR (Mr. Churchill)
I am making inquiries in this case, and will let the hon. and gallant Member know the result as soon as possible.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:17:32 AM
A very brave man.

FREYBERG, First Baron; Sir Bernard Cyril Freyberg, V.C., G.C.M.G., K.C.B., K.B.E., D.S.O. and three bars, K.St.J.

(1889–1963).

Seventh Governor-General of New Zealand.

Bernard Cyril Freyberg was born in London on 21 March 1889 and was the son of James Freyberg and of his second wife, Julia née Hamilton, of an Argyllshire family. When he was two years old his parents emigrated to New Zealand, where his father joined the Public Service in Wellington as a surveyor. Freyberg was educated at Wellington College, where he became noted for his prowess at sports. He excelled at swimming and won the New Zealand junior swimming title in 1905 and the senior title five years later.

When he left school he took up dentistry and, after training with J. S. Fairchild, of Wellington, acted as locum tenens for A. L. Yule in Morrinsville. While there he swam down the Waihou River from Te Aroha to Paeroa – a distance of about 14 miles. On 18 January 1912 he was gazetted as a Second Lieutenant in the 6th Hauraki Regiment (Territorials), but relinquished this a month later when he accepted a position at Levin where he remained, with one interruption – a trip to Australia as a stoker in the Maunganui – until early in 1914, when he went to San Francisco.

Immediately on the outbreak of the First World War Freyberg went to England and volunteered for service. G. S. Richardson arranged for him to join the 7th “Hood” Battalion of the Royal Naval Brigade, and he was on the Belgian front in September 1914. Rupert Brooke, the poet, was an officer in the 2nd “Anson” Battalion and he and Freyberg began a friendship which lasted until the former's death at Lemnos. In April 1915 the Brigade was sent to the Dardanelles. There, on the night of 24 April 1915, Freyberg volunteered to swim ashore in the Gulf of Saros to divert the Turks' attention from the main landing.

Although under heavy firing, he escaped unscathed and his successful exploit earned him his first D.S.O. After the Gallipoli campaign Freyberg was sent to France. On 13 November 1916, when he was in command of the “Hood” Battalion near Beaumont Hamel, he won the Victoria Cross “by his splendid personal gallantry”. In the words of the official citation: “The personality, valour, and utter contempt of danger on the part of this single Officer enabled the lodgement in the most advanced objective of the Corps to be permanently held, and on this point d'appui the line was eventually formed”. He was wounded four times in this engagement. When the war ended Freyberg was a Temporary Brigadier with the 29th Division. He had won the V.C., the D.S.O. and two bars, the C.M.G., was mentioned six times in dispatches, and had been wounded nine times.

After the war Freyberg attended the Staff College at Camberley. From 1929 to 1931 he commanded the 1st Battalion, Manchester Regiment, and he was Assistant Quartermaster-General, Southern Command (1931–33), before becoming a General Staff Officer (first class) at the War Office. He retired from the Army in 1934, but was recalled in September 1939 to become General Officer Commanding the Salisbury Plains Area. In November 1939 the New Zealand Government invited him to command the New Zealand Division in the Middle East. For a short time in 1941 he was Allied Commander-in-Chief in Crete and was responsible for evacuating the troops there. He led the New Zealand Division through the Greek, African, and Italian campaigns, winning a third bar to his D.S.O. in Italy in 1945.

On 17 June 1946 Freyberg succeeded Lord Newall as Governor-General of New Zealand. He held this office, having his term extended, until 15 August 1952. In 1951 he was elevated to the peerage and took the style “Baron Freyberg of Wellington, New Zealand and Munstead, Surrey”.

From 1953 until his death Freyberg was Deputy Constable and Lieutenant-Governor of Windsor Castle. In addition to his military honours Freyberg was awarded the following honorary degrees: LL.D. (St. Andrews, 1922, and New Zealand, 1953) and D.C.L. (Oxford, 1945).
On 14 June 1922 Freyberg married Barbara, widow of the Hon. Francis Walter Stafford Maclaren, M.P., daughter of Sir Herbert Jekyll, K.C.M.G., of Munstead, Surrey. Freyberg died at Windsor on 4 July 1963 and was succeeded in his title by his only son.

As a soldier Freyberg became a legend in his own lifetime. Although his men thought him formidable, he won and retained their devotion, not only because he shared their dangers and discomforts but also because he was ever solicitous of their welfare. He would be found in the thick of any battle in which his troops were engaged and his apparent indifference to danger led Sir Winston Churchill to describe him as a “Salamander” – because he seemed to thrive in fire. A war correspondent who met him during the African campaign has left the following pen portrait of Freyberg the General: “He is a big man, over 6 feet, built like a Rugby forward. He has keen eyes which he squints suspiciously, a broad, red, fleshy face, sharp, hard mouth, and a curious high-pitched voice”. During his period as Commander of the Second New Zealand Expeditionary Force, Freyberg won the confidence of the New Zealand Government and people to a remarkable degree and his choice as Governor-General was a popular one.

Although Freyberg's fame will inevitably rest upon his military career, two further facets of his life deserve passing mention. In 1922 he stood as Liberal candidate at the Cardiff-South parliamentary election. He polled second in the three-cornered contest, being defeated by the Conservative sitting member by 900 votes. During the war those privileged to read Freyberg's reports to the New Zealand Government were impressed by his fine style of writing and by his accurate and economical use of words. In 1933 Freyberg published A Study of Unit Administration, which became a staff college textbook on quarter-masters' logistics. In addition he wrote a book on wines, a subject on which he was an authority.

by Bernard John Foster, M.A., Research Officer, Department of Internal Affairs, Wellington.

Awards   
Victoria Cross
Knight Grand Cross of the Order of St Michael and St George (29 Jan 46)
Knight Commander of the Order of the Bath (24 Nov 42)
Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire
Companion of the Bath (1 Jan 35)
Companion of the Order of St. Michael and St. George (1919)
Distinguished Service Order & three Bars (3 Jun 15, 1 Feb 19, 7 Mar 19, 5 Jul 45)
Mention in Despatches (6)
Knight of the Venerable Order of St. John (Dec 45)
Croix de Guerre (France)
Legion of Merit (Commander) (United States) (2 Aug 45)
Greek War Cross (1st Class) (10 Apr 42)

© Crown Copyright 2005 – 2009

The Dictionary of New Zealand Biography

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:19:05 AM
GALLIPOLI STAR.

HC Deb 20 November 1918 vol 110 c3408 3408

 18. Colonel YATE
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether the Gallipoli Star will be given to the relatives of those who fell during the operations there?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
Yes, Sir; the medal will be given to the legal representative or the next-of-kin, according to whether the deceased soldier died testate or intestate.


© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:19:35 AM
1914–15 STAR.

HC Deb 20 November 1918 vol 110 cc3407-8 3407

 Colonel YATE
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether the 1914–15 Star will be granted to all officers and men of the 6th (Poona) Division who took part in the operations in Mesopotamia from the first landing at Busrah up to and including the siege of Kut-el-Amarah; the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether the 1914–15 Star will be granted to all officers and men who took part in the operations in East Africa during those years?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
I think so, but perhaps my hon. and gallant Friend will await the publication of the conditions of the award of the "1914–15 Star," which will be made in Army Orders very shortly.

 Colonel YATE
Is the ribbon of the 1915 Star to be the same as that of the 1914 Star?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
Yes, Sir.

 Colonel YATE
Will there, then, be no difference between the 1914 Star and the 1914–15 Star?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
The ribbon is the same, but the first star will be marked "1914," and the second "1914–15."

 Major Sir S. SCOTT
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that for every time a man wears the medal he wears the ribbon a hundred times, and will there be no distinction for the men who served at Mons?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
I know it is a very difficult question, and I can assure the House the Committee, which took the whole matter into its cognisance, took special precautions to find out the general feeling, and I understand the conclusion come to was unanimous.

 Colonel WEDGWOOD
Is this a method of depreciating the value of the 1914 Star?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
I do not think so, and I believe the House will agree that this is a just and genuine attempt to meet feeling all round.

 Colonel BURN
Has my right hon. Friend seen the suggestion in the Paper that the 1914 Star should be worn with red inside, and the 1914–15 with the blue inside, to mark the difference?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
I can quite see there is a great diversity of opinion, and all I can promise to do is to bring the whole matter before the Committee again.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:20:06 AM
MANCHESTER REGIMENT (QUARTERMASTER-SERGEANT).

HC Deb 08 May 1919 vol 115 c1142W 1142W

 Sir M. BARLOW
asked the Pensions Minister whether he will look into the case of James Edward Tallent, late quartermaster-sergeant, No. 2840, Manchester Regiment; and whether he is aware that this non-commissioned officer was discharged from the Service on the 15th March, 1915, with a pension of 12s. 3d. per week, and that, on applying for the 20 per cent. bonus on his pension, he was informed that he was not eligible for this as his pension was payable under the 1914 Warrant and had not been re-assessed under the 1917 Warrant?

Sir LAMING WORTHINGTON-EVANS
The amount to which Mr. Tallent would be entitled under the 1917 and 1918 Warrants is 9s. a week, including bonus. It is, therefore, better for him to continue to draw the pension of 12s. 3d. a week awarded under the 1914 Warrant, to which the bonus does not apply.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:21:29 AM
RECONSTRUCTION AND RELIEF, EXPENDITURE.

HC Deb 21 October 1920 vol 133 cc1089-91W 1089W

 Sir S. HOARE
asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is the total amount of British expenditure upon reconstruction and relief in nil parts of the world since the date of the Armistice?

 Mr. CHAMBERLAIN
Under Sub-head "B" of the Vote for Loans to Dominions and Allies, 1919–20, the sum of £12,500,000 was provided for relief and reconstruction in war devastated areas. From the Vote of Credit, 1918–19, and Sub-head "A" of the Vote for Loans to Dominions and Allies, 1919–20, sums amounting to £15,283,000 were advanced after the Armistice to the Belgian Government for relief and reconstruction, including a special reconstruction credit of £9,000,000. Part of the sums thus allocated which were undrawn on 31st March, 1920, were re-voted under Sub-head "B" of the Loans to Allies, etc., 1920–21. This Subhead also contains a provision of £10,000,000 for relief to Austria and Poland in fulfilment of the undertaking given by His Majesty's Government to provide the equivalent of half of any sums provided by the United States Government for urgent relief requirements up to a maximum of £10,000,000. Up to the present nearly halt of this sum has been expended under the supervision of the British Delegate on the International Relief Credits Committee which is sitting in Paris, and the programme to be covered by the balance of the grant is at Present under consideration.

Under the Vote for Export Credits, 1920–21, the sum of £2,000,000 was provided for advances to British exporters of the United Kingdom on goods shipped to certain countries in Europe and bordering on the Black Sea.

The Overseas Trade (Credit and Insurance) Act, 1920, authorises the Board of Trade to grant credits and undertake insurance for the purpose of re-establishing trade between the United King- 1090W dom and the countries concerned within the limit that the aggregate amount outstanding in respect of credits shall not at any time exceed the sum of £26,000,000.

In addition to these general schemes, His Majesty's Government have incurred expenditure upon relief in various parts of the world. For example, we have undertaken to share equally with the United States of America the cost of repatriating Czecho-Slovaks and other friendly troops from Siberia. The estimated expenditure on this service under Sub-heads "G" and "H" of the Ministry of Shipping Vote and Sub-head "F" of the Supplementary Estimate for Miscellaneaus War Services amounts to about £1,400,000. On the withdrawal of General Denikin to the Crimea large numbers of Russian refugees took refuge in Cyprus, Egypt, and Lemnos, etc. In order to save these refugees from starvation, considerable expenditure was incurred by His Majesty's Government, the sum of £400,000 being provided under Sub-head "C" of the Miscellaneous War Services Estimate. During the presence of British troops in Archangel and Murmansk food was imported for the civilian population which was entirely cut off from the outer world during the winter months.

The sum of £2,190,000 was voted for this expenditure under the Miscellaneous War Services Supplementary Estimate, 1919–20. Heavy expenditure has been incurred on the maintenance of Assyrian and Armenian refugees who fled before the Turkish troops into occupied territory in Mesopotamia in August, 1918. This expenditure has been met from a Vote of Credit and Army Votes to a total (up to 30th September) of approximately £3,940,000. Similarly expenditure was incurred after the occupation of Syria and Palestine upon the relief of refugees and destitute persons (including Armenians concentrated at Port Said) to a total of about £575,000. Finally, His Majesty's Government have informed the League of Nations that they will ask Parliament for authority to contribute not more than £50,000 towards the first £250,000 immediately required by the League for combating typhus in Poland provided that four other nations are willing to subscribe an equal amount, and they will also propose to Parliament 1091W a reasonable contribution to the further £1,750,000 required by the League provided that other nations are willing to take the same course.
These various contributions may be summarised as follow:
   Â£
1. Grants and Loans to Belgium for Relief and Reconstruction   15,283,000
2. First Relief Credit                                                      12,500,000
3. Second Relief Credit                                                      10,000,000
4. Repatriation of Czecho Slovak Troops from Siberia                 1,400,000
5. Maintenance of Russian Refugees                                             400,000
6. Supply of foodstuffs for North Russia                              2,190,000
7. Export Credits   2,000,000
8. Relief of Assyrian and Armenian Refugees in Mesopotamia    3,940,000
9. Relief of Refugees and destitute persons in Syria and Palestine       575,000
10. Grant to League of Nations for relief of typhus in Poland        50,000
                                                                             Â£48,338,000

It is very difficult to make a comprehensive statement of this kind absolutely complete, but the above may be taken as including all the most important items of relief expenditure.


© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:22:12 AM
HILLAH FIGHTING (MANCHESTER REGIMENT).

HC Deb 21 October 1920 vol 133 cc1091-2W 1091W

 Sir W. SEAGER
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is able now to supply the House with further information regarding the heavy casualties in July last to the Manchester Regiment in Mesopotamia?

 Lieut.-Colonel HURST
asked the Secretary of State for War what information he can give regarding the fate of the soldiers of the 2nd Battalion Manchester Regiment reported missing in Mesopotamia in July 1092W last; whether there is any hope of their being alive; if so, where they are and how they are being treated; and if he has any information as to Lance-sergeant E. Fryer, No. 79581, and Private T. Howard, No. 88725, of the same unit, both reported missing?

 Mr. CHURCHILL
On 30th July, the General Officer Commanding, Mesopotamia, reported that a small column had been heavily attacked near Hillah on the 24th, and that a total of 205 British other ranks were "missing." The majority of these were understood to belong to the Manchester Regiment. On the 9th August, 78 non-commissioned officers and men of this regiment were reported as known to be prisoners in Arab hands. Subsequent reports as to the treatment of British prisoners have been to the effect that they were well treated by the Arabs. A report received on the morning of the 20th inst. stated that 79 British prisoners were brought in by the Arabs on 19th October and handed over to the 55th Brigade Column. No reports as to their condition have yet been received. The fate of the remainder of the missing men is unknown, and I regret that no further information has been received in the War Office concerning the two soldiers mentioned in the last part of the question by the hon. and gallant Member for Moss Side.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:22:40 AM
EDUCATIONAL TRAINING (TROOPS IN MESOPOTAMIA).

HC Deb 09 August 1920 vol 133 c51W 51W

 Major GRAY
asked the Secretary of State for War whether any, and, if so, what opportunities for educational advancement are offered to British troops stationed at Tekrit, Mesopotamia; whether he is aware that men of the 2nd Battalion, Manchester Regiment, stationed at Tekrit, re-enlisted after service in France and Belgium, on the understanding that schemes of Army-education would be established, that nothing has been done in this direction, and consequently men in this remote station are suffering from lack of mental occupation?

 Mr. CHURCHILL
At the present time educational training is being conducted in Mesopotamia under conditions of some difficulty. The Army Educational Corps is now being formed on a permanent basis and every unit will then have its permanent personnel which will doubtless put an end to such complaints. Meanwhile everything will be done to assist the General Officer Commanding in conducting this branch of training. I am making inquiries as to the situation in the unit mentioned and will let the hon. and gallant Member know the result in due course.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:23:37 AM
WIDOW'S PENSION (MRS. F. BRADWELL).

HC Deb 30 November 1922 vol 159 cc879-80 879


 Mr. C. WHITE
asked the Minister of Pensions whether he will reconsider the case of Mrs. F. Bradwell, of Bradwell, Derbyshire, widow of Private Charles R. Bradwell, No. 28,234, Manchester Regiment, whose death was due to disability incurred on military service; whether he is aware that this woman is left with three children, the eldest only five years old; whether he is aware that she has been refused a pension on the ground that the man's removal from duty was not caused by the disability from which he is said to have died; and whether he will review the whole case with a view to Mrs. Bradwell receiving a pension?
 
Major TRYON
The late soldier died two and a-half years after demobilisation from endocarditis, the first medical evidence of which is dated April, 1922 My medical advisers are unable to find such connection between the cause of the death and the man's military service as will satisfy the conditions of the Royal Warrant, and an award of pension cannot therefore be made to the widow. She has, however, a right of appeal to the Pensions Appeal Tribunal against the decision of the Ministry.

 Mr. WHITE
In that appeal will she be opposed by the Ministry of Pensions, as is usually done?


 Major TRYON
She will be given all the information available.

 Mr. WHITE
How does the Minister expect this poor woman, living on parish relief, adequately to fight her case?

 Major TRYON
The hon. Member, I think, misunderstands altogether the attitude of the Pensions Ministry. Our business is to place all the facts before the tribunal, and those familiar with the work of the tribunals know that.

 Mr. HOGGE
Is it not the case that, while it is true that the Ministry of Pensions furnish a précis of the evidence, the onus of disproving the facts lies upon the poor woman or the poor soldier, and in many cases they can only very inadequately state their case?

 Major TRYON
No, Sir, I do not consider that the onus is at all left upon the applicants. In all the cases that have passed through my hands, and where information, civilian or otherwise, is desired, we make it our business to apply to the Service Departments for medical records, etc., so that we may have all the information that will help the applicant.

 Mr. HOGGE
We have already admitted that; but is not the point this, that after the Ministry has done all that, the person who has to plead before the Court is in that sense incapable, and should there not be some assistance given to him to prove his case?
 Mr. SPEAKER
That is a new question.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:24:31 AM
Part of a debate.

ARMY ESTIMATES, 1903–4.

HC Deb 16 July 1903 vol 125 cc873-941 873

 Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £331,500, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the Charge for the Salaries and Miscellaneous Charges of the War Office, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1904."

 MR. WINSTON CHURCHILL
said nobody blamed the right hon. Gentleman because recruits did not come in. Criticism had been directed to the fact that the right hon. Gentleman had formulated 902 a scheme which required a great many more recruits than could be supplied annually.

 MR. BRODRICK
said he was not referring to his hon. friend, but to the fact that he constantly saw the smallest class of "specials" called after his name. This was a curious phenomenon, because on no occasion in the last seventeen years had he ever voted for having "specials," or been willing to decrease the standard. On the contrary, he had raised the standard. With regard to the Aldershot review, it had been suggested that regiments were either very short in numbers or were not on parade at all. That was perfectly true. The review had been erroneously called a review of the 1st Army Corps. It could not be that, because a large number of the troops of the 1st Army Corps had only just come home from South Africa.

 MR. WINSTON CHURCHILL
asked where was the 3rd Division.

 MR. BRODRICK
said four regiments of the 5th brigade had been home under two months, or just over that. A very large number of the men were on furlough, and to bring them back for the sake of a parade would have been very hard. That brigade was 3,320 men strong, and he thought it would be admitted that it was a very tine brigade. Then two brigades of artillery, one of which belonged to that division, were practising at Okehampton, and it would have been undesirable to bring them back from the ordinary practice of the year simply for a parade. The 14th Hussars returned recently from South Africa, and were utilised for keeping the approaches to the ground and for escort duties, and 1,800 men were employed in keeping the ground. He admitted that some of the Line battalions were short in numbers; but the pressure on the Lines had been enormouse in the last few years, and it must be remembered that of the Line battalions sixteen had been formed in the last four years. One of the battalions in which there was a shortage of men was that of the Manchester regiment, If the expectations of the military authorities as to the possibility of maintaining the 3rd and 4th battalions of this regiment were disappointing, they would have to consider the position of this regiment. For the moment, as two 903 of the battalions had been on active service and the remaining two had only just been raised, they had to face a shortage in some of these battalions. He would go carefully into the position with regard to the 3rd and 4th battalions before the next Estimates. A very important point had been raised with regard to the artillery, and he hoped he might be allowed to say a word on the question of policy. The right hon. Member for Forest of Dean spoke extremely strongly about the present artillery, and there was, he knew, a general desire in the House to hear that the Government had adopted a new and better gun, a more powerful gun, and a more quick-firing gun.

 MAJOR SEELY (Isle of Wight)
A quick-firing gun.

 MR. BRODRICK
said the eighteen batteries that they had could not be described otherwise than as quick-firing.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:25:14 AM
Loans to Naval and Military Exhibitions.

HC Deb 18 May 1903 vol 122 c924 924

 CAPTAIN NORTON (Newington, W.)
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he can give a list of the Government property lent by the War Office for the late Naval and Military Exhibitions in Manchester and Leeds, and state what steps have been taken to recover the 4.6-inch gun and maxim which were in the hands of the bailiff's, and with what result; and will he also state what inquiry, if any, was made into the status of the proprietors of the United Service Gazette, to whom the property was lent, and who they are; did the War Office authorities specify the proportion of the proceeds to be handed over to military charities; what regimental bands were permitted to perform at the Exhibition, and how many of these have been paid; and did the musical director of Kneller Hall receive official sanction to give his services to this exhibition.

 MR. BRODRICK
The list of Government property lent by the War Office to these exhibitions is too long to read out, but I can give the hon. Member a copy if he likes. No guns, however, were lent by the War Office. As regards the status of the proprietors of the United Service Gazette there appeared to be no reason for doubting the bonâ fides of a respectable paper of long standing, and no inquiries were made. No fixed proportion of profits was stipulated for. It is not known at the War Office how many regimental bands were allowed to compete at the Exhibition, as this would be left to the discretion of the general officers commanding the districts concerned, nor is it known which, if any, received payment. The notification that the Director of Music of Kneller Hall would adjudicate in the band competition received official sanction.

 CAPTAIN NORTON
Who are the proprietors of the United Service Gazette?

 MR. BRODRICK
I cannot say.

 CAPTAIN NORTON
I shall put the Question again, as it is all important.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 27, 2017, 10:26:26 AM
Ashton-under-Lyne Barracks—Cost of Construction and Repairs.

HC Deb 25 March 1903 vol 120 c168 168

 MR. HERBERT WH1TELEY (Ashton-under-Lyne)
To ask the Secretary of State for War if he can state the original cost of the Ashton-under-Lyne Barracks; the amount spent in alterations, additions, and repairs to them during the last ten years; and the number of men recruited in the Ashton-under-Lyne district during the same period.

(Answered by Mr. Secretary Brodrick.)
The original cost of the barracks at Ashton-under-Lyne was £45,077; the amount spent on subsequent alterations, additions, and maintenance in the last ten years was £5,754. The average take of recruits for the last ten years in the 63rd Regimental District, of which Ashton-under-Lyne is the headquarters, for the Regular Forces and Militia amounted to 1,373 and 1,973 respectively, but these figures include 1,151 and 1,645, respectively, raised in the Manchester recruiting district.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 29, 2017, 09:58:31 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)




WAR ITEMS
Evening Post, Volume LXXXVIII, Issue 126, 24 November 1914, Page 4


WAR ITEMS
INCIDENTS OP THE GREAT STRUGGLE
"STICK IT, WELSH!"
(ntOH OUR OWN CORKEBFONDBMT.) LONDON, 14th October. A thrilling story of the heroism of the late Captain Haggard, a nephew of Sir 'JRider, Haggard, is told by a private of the 2nd Battalion Welsh Regiment. The light took place on 13th September, when s the Welsh faced a terrible artillery lire. " Shrapnel shells were bursting over us, but amid all this we took heed of only one word, 'Advance,' and advance we did. Our regiment had a centre position. . On we all went. -We neared tho crest of tlie hill behind which was our goal. About twenty yards from the crest we lay down, and our company commander, Captain Haggard, advanced to the top, saw the Germans, and then shouted, ' Fix bayonets, boys ; hero they are.' The Welsh, wero met, however, by a severe Maxim fire. We lost four officers in about twenty minutes. Still wo hung on. Matters were made worse for us owing to our artillery not being able to get up behind us for hours owing to very muddy soil. Just near me was lying our brave captain, mortally wounded. As the shells burst over us, he would occasionally open his eyes, so full of pain, and call ont — but 'twas very weak—' Stick it, Welsh Regiment j stick it, Welsh !' Many of us wounded managed to crawl up and down the firing line ' dishing Out ' the ammunition we were unable to use. So our brave lads stuck at 'it until our artillery got into action. Officers were telling us yarns, were sending everywhere for milk, and resolutely refused to be bandaged until we were seen to. Captain Haggard died that evening, his last words being 'Stick it.. Welsh.' He died as he had lived— an officer and a gentleman." THE KAISER'S LATEST. The Kaiser has issued the following proclamation to his Eastern Army :— "Remember who you are. The Holy Spirit has descended on mo because I am the Emperor of the Germans. I am the instrument of tho Most High. lam His sword j His representative. Woe and death to those who resist my will ; woe and death to those who do not believe in my mission ; woe and death to cowards ! Let all enemies of the Germans perish. God demands their destruction. God, who through me commands you to fulfil Hi* will." PRISONERS OF WAR. A Prisoners of War Information Bureau has been opened in the Strand. Its primary purpose is to keep a-nd to communicate to enemy Government* periodically records of information a« regards pneoners of war interned in this country, in. exchange for information about British prisoners of war interned abroad. The Bureau collects infonrta* tion as to persons interned as prisoners of war by Hi* Majesty's Government, and as to the transfers, releases on parole, exchanges, escapes, admissions into hospitals, and deaths of prisoners. It takes charge of the personal effects of prisoners who died while interned in this country. It replies to written and personal enquiries On the above points, and to questions relating to the correspondence of prisoners of war interned in this country. It does , not deal with petitions for the release of individual prisoners. It possesses no information as to British prisoners of war interned to Germany, and cannot answer enquiries regarding . British 'prisoners. Every endeavour is being made to obtain list* from Germany. j IRISH jAALLY TO THE COLOURS. Ml-. T. P. O'Connor estimates that j Upwards of 50.000 Itielimen have joined the colours in England and Scotland alone. According to special enquiries made, he thinks the following figures may be accepted as reasonably correct :•— Glasgow, 8000 to 9000 ; Coatbridge, 100 out of 1500; Manchester, 7000 to 8000; Salford, 1000; County of Lancashire., 10,000 to 16,000; Teeside, 1500; Leeds, 1000 ; Bermondtey, 700 ; Dundee, 1000 ; Birmingham, 3000 ; South Wales, 1000 ; North of England, 6000 to 7000. WORK OF THE ST. JOHN AMBULANCE. Up to the end of September, the Order of St. John of Jerusalem, through one of its departments, whose Comtnissionei' is Sir James Clark, has supplied to the War Office Over 5000 ine,n trained in ambulance work. They have been distributed among naval hospital ships, military home hospitals, Expeditionary Force, Allied Forces' Base Hospital, Lady Dudley's hospital, the Duchess of Westminster's hospital, military hospital ships, etc. Another department of the Order, with the Duchess of Bedford in charge, has sent 133 fully trained nurses to the [ front, in addition to a number of surgeons, at the request of the French and Belgian Red Cross Societies. No fewer than ninety hospitals have been planned by the voluntary aid detachments in the provinces and London, one of these being equipped with 300 beds ? three •with 200 beds, and several with 100 beds. Thousands of garments have been sent in on behalf of the Queen Mary Needlework Guild, and the Queett herself visited St. John's Gate a few days ago and inspected various departments. Her Majesty made several practical suggestions to the nursing Sisters of St. John, and subsequently visited the ancient crypt, where she signed the parish register. TWENTY MILES OF REFUGEES. Lord Hindlip is acting as King's Messenger, and during a visit to England he wrote to a recruiting -meeting at Fernhill Heath, Worcestershire, wheie his seat is situated :— "Few people realise what Our army has done. Their retreat was magnificent, and the way they are holding on to their position is splendid. Fewer people realise what war means. One morning I passed on our line of retreat twenty miles of refugees without a gap, which is equal to from Birmingham to Fernhill Heath — one long line of misery — old women, old men, babies in arms, children of all ages,, in every kind of conveyance, from motor carriages,, farm wagons, carts, perambulators, wheelbarrows, all packed with their belongings— these wretched people fleeing, Heaven knows where, to escape the invader. Only such sights as these can bring it home to the civilian population, who are too apt to believe that war affects only soldiers and sailors." LOYAL BASUTOLAN'D. Griffith, the paramount chief of Basutoland, announces his desire to help Britain in the following terms:— "With regard to this war which I hear exists between His Majesty the King George V. and the Germans. I ask whether, as my King is engaged in fighting his enemies, I, his servant, will be doing well to keep aloof, watching him being attacked, by enemies. As 1 am unable to be with my King in person, I beg to know whether I may show my loyalty and the loyalty of the Basutos to His Majesty the King by giving monetary assistance, to be raised by calling on each Mosuto to pay a sum of one shilling as a eontributi6h to the funds now being raised for the relief of sufferers by the war. The Basuto and myself are grieved at seeing our King attacked by enemies when" we, hie servant*, cannot assist him." This j offer has bwn gratefully accepted. I


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 29, 2017, 10:01:21 PM
CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS.

HC Deb 28 May 1919 vol 116 cc1240-1W 1240W

 Mr. F. ROBERTS
asked the Secretary of State for War (1) whether he is aware that Henry Brierly, aged 21, E Company, 3rd Manchester Regiment, who was arrested in May, 1916, and was twice rejected by the military authorities on medical grounds, was sent back to his unit at the end of a twelve months' sentence on 28th April, put into khaki forcibly, and court-martialled a few days ago and sent to Wandsworth Prison; and whether he will now remit this man's sentence; whether he is aware that G. M. Lloyd Davie-s, No. 4532, N.C.C., a North Wales preacher, who was court-martialled for the second time in November, 1918, is at present in Birmingham civil prison; and whether he will now remit the remainder of this man's sentence?

 Mr. CHURCHILL
I would refer the hon. Member to the statement which I made on the 3rd April in reply to a question by the hon. and gallant Member for  Plaistow, and to the reply given on the 1st May to a question by the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland, which explained the policy with regard to the release of conscientious objectors and others who arc serving terms of imprisonment.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 29, 2017, 10:02:08 PM
ARMY RESERVE, CLASS Z.

HC Deb 28 May 1919 vol 116 c1240W 1240W

 Mr. J. DAVISON
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will state the policy of his Department regarding the men who have been demobilised but, having been merely transferred to the Reserve, are still subject to military service; and whether it is proposed to release these men entirely from military service at an early date?

Captain GUEST
Men on being demobilised and placed in Army Reserve Class Z will not be recalled to the Colours except in the case of military emergency prior to the termination of the War. They are not subject to military discipline, and the only immediate obligation they are under is to notify changes of address to their record office. These Reservists are entitled to be discharged with all convenient speed after the ratification of Peace.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 29, 2017, 10:02:52 PM
Part of a debate

VOLUNTEER EQUIPMENTS.

HC Deb 13 March 1890 vol 342 cc727-64 727

 COLONEL BLUNDELL (Ince, S.W., Lancashire)
Sir, I concur in a great deal that has fallen from the hon. and gallant General. Though the Manchester regiments, with which I have the honour to be connected, are endeavouring to equip themselves, I am quite certain, taking the country as a whole, that there will be a great difficulty in obtaining the equipment of the Volunteers from private sources. Rightly or wrongly, there is a feeling that the Government should take up the work of properly equipping the Volunteers with all that is necessary.

 I would urge on the Secretary of State for War, while thanking him for what he has done in the past, that he should make these changes when the magazine rifle is issued to the Volunteers. The amount of the capitation grant should be then re-considered, arms, accoutrements, and equipments should be supplied, leaving the Volunteers to provide clothing only. The question of ranges is also one which it is absolutely necessary for the War Office to take into its special consideration, whether from the point of view of the safety of Her Majesty's subjects or the efficiency not only of the Volunteer, but of every other branch of the Service. For instance, at Manchester, a range is much needed, and I do think the Government should endeavour to provide ranges within an easy distance of all large centres of population.
 

 COLONEL CORNWALLIS WEST (Denbigh, W.)
I think the Volunteers of the country owe a deep debt of gratitude to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Birkenhead for the Motion which he has brought forward. The time has now arrived when the cases of, at any rate, the poorer corps should be taken into consideration. In my own county it has been found absolutely impossible to call public meetings to consider this question, because people will not attend; they say—and I confess that I think there is much force in it—that the Volunteers are a body recognised as a part of the military force of the country, and that so far as equipment is concerned the Government should see for it.
But, on the other hand, the Volunteer officers are told that they must beg, borrow, or do what they can to obtain the necessary funds. For my own part, I have the strongest objection to any of these courses; I think it a degrading thing for officers to be obliged to get up bazaars, &c, in order to provide funds for the purchase of equipments which are essential to the force. I was very glad to hear from the Secretary for War that this circular is not to be pressed, because if it were, as far as many provincial corps are concerned, it would absolutely put an end to them. I hope and trust that the Government will take into consideration all the views which they have heard, and that they will find some means to assist the Volunteer Force in a greater degree than has yet been done—though I do not deny that much has been done—and that, so far as equipments are concerned, the Government will take the matter in hand.

 COLONEL E. S. HILL (Bristol, S.)
I wish to re-echo every word that has been said with regard to the consideration which has been shown to the. Volunteer Service by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War. Prior to 1886, many thousands of men passed through the regiment I had the honour of commanding for 26 years, and I do not think it right that the Financial Secretary should have described a force such as this as a mere hap-hazard collection of boys.

 MR. BRODRICK
I did not say that. I said the Volunteer Force was, up to a certain date, a hap-hazard collection of units. The numbers of the different 745 branches of the force had not been considered in connection with each other, and wherever companies or battalions of a particular arm of the force could be raised, such a formation was encouraged.

 COLONEL HILL
I am glad that I misunderstood the right hon. Gentleman. I entirely agree with the position in which the Volunteer force as described by my right hon. Friend the Member for West Birmingham, and the hon. and learned Gentleman the Member for Birkenhead. Either the Volunteers are a necessary portion of the defence of this country or they are not. If they are not they should be disbanded, but if they are, they should be supplied by the Government with everything they want for military service, and the Volunteers themselves should be asked simply to give their spare time. If the country wishes to have more than that, and to encroach upon the wage-earning time of the men, they ought to pay for it. I do not think it is right that a Volunteer should be put to any further expenditure of any sort.
Notwithstanding what my hon. and gallant Friend has said with reference to the sufficiency of the capitation grant, I should ask leave to say that circumstances alter cases very materially, and it very much depends upon the position of a regiment whether or not its expenditure is heavy. I am very glad to hear him say that in his case they are able a have a little surplus, and, if he wishes to dispose of it, I should be happy to communicate to him the names of several corps by which that surplus could be advantageously expended. But as regards the question of equipment, I think it is unfair to ask Volunteers either to go about the country begging for subscriptions to provide military equipments for themselves, which seems to indicate a want of appreciation of their services on the part of the Government, or to ask officers to pledge their private credit at their bankers in order to provide the equipments. There is considerable difficulty in many regiments in obtaining the services of officers at the present moment, and if you put additional financial burdens upon the force that difficulty will be increased. I feel extremely grateful to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Birkenhead for having brought this matter 746 forward, because he has, at any rate, elicited in regard to the circular a very satisfactory statement on the part of the Government. I trust he may see his way to rest satisfied with this statement and the discussion, and to withdraw his Amendment.

 THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. E. STANHOPE,) Lincolnshire, Horncastle
I hope I may be allowed to put it to the House whether this particular discussion should not come to a close. With regard to the Amendment, I think it is obviously impossible for the Government either to accept it or to say anything in encouragement of it. If I were to say a single word in support of it' it is obvious that not one further penny would be subscribed by the public, but all expenses would devolve on the Imperial Exchequer. It is undesirable, therefore, on behalf of the Volunteers themselves that the Motion should be pressed.
I am obliged for the kind words which have been used about myself, and I am only sorry that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham has left the House, because I should have liked to address a special appeal to him. In Birmingham the number of Volunteers is utterly out of proportion to the population, and I think that the right hon. Gentleman in what he said as to the inability of the town to provide for the equipment of even this small body has pressed the matter beyond what was reasonable. Some hon. Members have stated, with great truth, that these articles were pressing and indispensable articles for Volunteers when they took the field. But they have been so for the last 30 years, and this formed no new argument in favour of taking the increase of the capitation grant again into consideration. I am strongly in favour of the principle of local subscription.
I sympathise with the undue pressure which is put upon officers of Volunteer corps, who I think are put in an exceedingly unfair position by being called on for subscriptions, and that is, in my opinion, one of the main reasons why it is difficult to get officers. But the effect of increasing the capitation grant would not be to spare the Volunteer officers; it would simply relieve their wealthy fellow townsmen of the payment of the subscriptions they have given in the past.
I think that there ought to be some local subscription in all cases, and that a Volunteer corps is much more valued in a locality if the locality itself has a pecuniary interest in it. No one will doubt that I highly value the Volunteer Force, and I assure the House that my desire in this matter is to increase and not in any way diminish the value and utility of the Volunteers. I will take care that no undue pressure is put upon thorn. Having made that statement, and looking to the fact that during my term of office the capitation grant have been increased by £160,000 a year, I think the House may rest satisfied that I did not desire in any way to injure the Volunteer force.
I hope that the hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for Birkenhead will rest satisfied with the discussion that has taken place and allow us to pass on to the other Motions of great importance which we have to consider this evening.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 29, 2017, 10:03:45 PM
Soldiers and Penal Servitude.

HC Deb 30 May 1906 vol 158 cc402-3 402

 MR. LEA
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War with reference to the Annual Report on the Army [Cd. 2696], page 77, what were the names and corps of the nine men serving at Home who were sentenced to penal servitude and the fifteen men serving Abroad who were likewise sentenced in 1905, will he give in each case the offence or offences for which each man was tried, and when, where, and by whom they were tried, also the names of the persons who confirmed the sentences, and what opportunity was given in each case to appeal; and whether the evidence has since been submitted to the Judge Advocate-General, and if he approved of each sentence.
 
MR. HALDANE
I am glad my hon. friend has given me an opportunity to correct a clerical error in the return. The figures for soliders sentenced to penal servitude in 1905 should have been stated to be, one serving at Home; eleven serving Abroad. All these sentences were inflicted by General Courts-Martial and were confirmed at Home, by His Majesty the King; Abroad, by the General Officer Commanding the troops. The proceedings have all been reviewed by the Judge Advocate-General concerned, and, in India, the confirmations were approved by the Governor-General in Council. The particulars of the cases are as follows:— At Home: a man of the Manchester Regiment was tried at Ashton in January, 1905, for deserting from Ladysmith during the siege. Abroad: a man of the 2nd Border Regiment was tried at Thayatmyo in September, 1905, for wounding with intent to murder, and another of the 1st Royal Munster Fusiliers was tried at Mooltan, in November, 1904, for a similar offence. Seven men of the 1st West India Regiment were tried at Barbados in October, 1904, for perjury. A man of the 1st Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers was tried in Mauritius, in October, 1904, for striking a lieutenant on duty, and another of the 3rd Lancashire Fusiliers was tried at Middelburg in April, 1905, for striking a sergeant on 403 duty. It is considered, in the interests of the men, not advisable to make public their names. As regards appeal the reply is as given to Question No. 58.†

See preceding Question and Answer.
 
MR. ARNOLD-FORSTER
Why is it considered necessary to conceal the names of men who deserted to the enemy?
 
MR. HALDANE
The necessity does not apply specially to that case. The information is always available if required.

 MR. LEA
How did the discrepancy in the figures arise?
 
MR. HALDANE
It was a clerical error in making out the return.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 29, 2017, 10:04:53 PM
WAR OFFICE (AUXILIARY FORCES)— THE TOWER HAMLETS ENGINEER VOLUNTEERS—BURGESS SHORT.

HC Deb 01 March 1888 vol 322 cc1835-6 1835

 MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR (Donegal, E.)
asked the Secretary of State for War, Whether, as stated in the evening journal The Star, Mr. George Short, a retired printer, who in 1886 adopted the name of Burgess Short, was in that year, on the recommendation of Colonel Kirby, commanding the Tower Hamlets Engineer Volunteers, appointed lieutenant in that corps, being at the 1836 time some 48 years of age, and never having handled a rifle; whether Colonel Kirby recommended him in 1887 for a captaincy, and whether the War Office refused to promote him, on the ground that such promotion would involve the supersession of four officers equally or better qualified; whether he was introduced in December last by Mr. Morton, of the War Office, to General Lyon Freemantle as "the Editor of The Broad Arrow;" whether, in The Gazette of 9th December, 1887, he was appointed captain in the 3rd and 4th Battalion of the Manchester Regiment of Militia, passing over the heads of 11 lieutenants and six second lieutenants; and, whether he had previously served in the Militia?

 THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY, WAR DEPARTMENT (Mr. BRODRICK) (Surrey, Guildford)
(who replied) said: Nothing is known at the War Office as to the former name or profession of Mr. Burgess Short. He was appointed a lieutenant of the Tower Hamlets Engineers in 1886, being then about, 47 years of age. His promotion to captain in May, 1887, was refused, as he was not qualified, though he did subsequently qualify in August of that year. He called upon General Freemantle in November; but was not introduced by Mr. Morton, nor was General Freemantle aware that he was in any way connected with the Press. Upon the recommendation of the Commanding Officer of the regiment and the General of the District, he was appointed captain in 3rd and 4th battalions Manchester Regiment, on the 10th December, 1887. He passed over the subalterns, none of whom had, or have since, qualified for promotion, although there are still four vacancies for captains in the regiment which cannot be filled up. He had never previously served in the Militia, though he had been attached for instruction to a battalion of the Guards and to the 1st Manchester Regiment.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 29, 2017, 10:13:19 PM
Argus (Melbourne, Vic.), Saturday 14 October 1916, page 18

CASUALTIES IN FRANCE.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 31, 2017, 05:34:08 PM
From the Manchester Regiment Gazette.


The spirit of brave deeds.

Click on picture to make it bigger

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 31, 2017, 05:36:21 PM
From the Manchester Regiment Gazette.

Marriage of Sergeant Hogan VC.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 31, 2017, 05:39:36 PM
From Wikipedia

James Edgar Leach VC (27 July 27, 1892 - 15 August, 1958) was British Army soldier, and English recipient of the Victoria Cross.

He was 22 years old, and a Second Lieutenant in the 2nd Battalion, The Manchester Regiment, British Army during the First World War when the following deed took place for which he was awarded the VC.

On 29 October 1914 near Festubert, France, after their trench had been taken by the enemy and two attempts to recapture it had failed, Second Lieutenant Leach and a sergeant (John Hogan) with a party of 10 volunteers went to recover it themselves. They took the Germans by surprise with a sudden bayonet attack and then working from traverse to traverse they gradually succeeded in regaining possession, killing eight of the enemy, wounding two and taking 16 prisoners.

He later achieved the rank of Captain. After the war, Leach served in the Auxiliary Division of the Royal Irish Constabulary.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 31, 2017, 05:40:23 PM
John Hogan (VC)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
John Hogan
8 April 1884 – 7 October 1943

Place of birth    Royston, Oldham
Place of death    Oldham, England
Resting place    Chadderton Cemetery, Oldham
Rank    Sgt
Unit    The Manchester Regiment
Battles/wars    World War I
Awards    Victoria Cross

John Hogan VC (8 April 1884 – 6 October 1943 in Royton, Oldham, Lancashire) was a recipient of the Victoria Cross, the highest and most prestigious award for gallantry in the face of the enemy that can be awarded to British and Commonwealth forces.


Hogan was born in Royton, Lancashire, England.[1]

He was 30 years old, and a sergeant in the 2nd Battalion, The Manchester Regiment, British Army during the First World War. On 29 October 1914 near Festubert, France he performed a deed for which he was awarded the Victoria Cross:

"after their trench had been taken by the enemy and two attempts to recapture it had failed Sergeant Hogan went with a second lieutenant (James Leach) and a party of 10 volunteers to recover it themselves. They took the Germans by surprise with a sudden bayonet attack and then, working from traverse to traverse, they gradually succeeded in regaining possession, killing eight of the enemy, wounding two and taking 16 prisoners."

He received the medal in 1914 from King George V, at a ceremony in Buckingham Palace.

His medal is in Oldham Civic Centre, Oldham, Greater Manchester.


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 31, 2017, 05:41:44 PM
The Unknown Warrior

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Unknown Warrior
United Kingdom

The Tomb of the Unknown Warrior
For the unknown war dead, wherever they fell
Unveiled    11 November 1920


The British tomb of The Unknown Warrior holds an unidentified British soldier killed on a European battlefield during World War I. He was buried in Westminster Abbey, London on November 11, 1920, simultaneously with a similar operation in France, making both tombs the first honouring the unknown dead of World War I. The battlefield that the Warrior came from is not publicly known, and has been kept secret so that the Unknown Warrior might serve as a symbol for all of the unknown dead wherever they fell.


The idea of a Tomb of the Unknown Warrior was first conceived in 1916 by the Reverend David Railton, who, while serving as an army chaplain on the Western Front, had seen a grave marked by a rough cross, which bore the pencil-written legend 'An Unknown British Soldier'.

He wrote to the Dean of Westminster in 1920 proposing that an unidentified British soldier from the battlefields in France be buried with due ceremony in Westminster Abbey "amongst the kings" to represent the many hundreds of thousands of Empire dead. The idea was strongly supported by the Dean and the then Prime Minister Lloyd George. There was initial opposition from King George V (who feared that such a ceremony would reopen the wounds of a recently concluded war) and others but a surge of emotional support from the great number of bereaved families ensured its adoption.

It is to be noted however that a similar concept had been publicised in France during a public speech in November 1916 and that it was debated in Parliament by July 1918 and adopted in November 1919, before being enforced in November 1920


Arrangements were placed in the hands of Lord Curzon of Kedleston who prepared in committee the service and location. The body was chosen from four bodies draped with Union Jacks at the chapel at St Pol near Arras, France on the night of 7 November 1920 by Brigadier General L.J. Wyatt and Lieutenant Colonel E.A.S. Gell. The remains were placed into a simple pine coffin. The coffin stayed at the chapel overnight and on the afternoon of November 8, it was transferred under guard to the castle library within the citadel at Boulogne. Troops lined the route and a company from the French 8th Infantry regiment, recently awarded the Légion d'Honneur en masse, stood vigil over it overnight.

The following morning, two undertakers entered the library and placed the coffin into a casket of the oak timbers of trees from Hampton Court Palace. The casket was banded with iron and a medieval crusader's sword, chosen by the king personally from the Royal Collection, was affixed to the top and surmounted by an iron shield bearing the inscription 'A British Warrior who fell in the Great War 1914-1918 for King and Country'.

The casket was then placed onto a French military wagon, drawn by six black horses. At 10.30 am, all church bells of Boulogne tolled; the massed trumpets of French cavalry and bugles of French infantry played the Aux Champs (the French "Last Post"). Then, the mile-long procession - led by one thousand French schoolchildren and with a division of French soldiers forming the guard of honour - made its way down to the harbour.

At the quayside, Marshal Foch saluted the casket before it was carried up the gangway of the destroyer, HMS Verdun, and piped aboard with an admiral's call. The Verdun slipped anchor just before noon and was joined by an escort of six battleships. As the flotilla carrying the casket closed on Dover Castle it received a 19 gun Field Marshal's salute. It was landed at Dover Maritime Railway Station at the Western Docks on 10 November, from where it was taken to Victoria Station, where it arrived at platform 8 at 8.32 pm that evening and remained for the night of the 10th - at both locations there is a plaque. Every year on 11 November there is a small Remembrance service at Victoria Station between platforms 8 and 9.

On the morning of 11 November 1920 the casket was loaded onto a gun carriage of the Royal Horse Artillery and drawn by six horses through immense and silent crowds. The route followed was Hyde Park Corner, The Mall, and to Whitehall where the Cenotaph was unveiled by King George V. The cortège was then followed by the King, Royal Family and ministers of state to Westminster Abbey, where the casket was borne into the West Nave of the Abbey flanked by a guard of honour of one hundred recipients of the Victoria Cross.
The guests of honour were a group of about one hundred women. They had been chosen because they had each lost their husband and all their sons in the war. "Every woman so bereft who applied for a place got it".

The coffin was then interred in the far western end of the nave, only a few feet from the entrance, with soil from each of the main battlefields and covered with a silk pall. The Armed Services then stood as honour guard as tens of thousands of mourners filed past. The ceremony appears to have served as a form of catharsis for collective mourning on a scale not previously known.

The grave was then capped with a black Belgium marble stone (the only tombstone in the Abbey on which it is forbidden to walk) featuring this inscription, composed by Dean Ryle, Dean of Westminster, engraved with brass from melted down wartime ammunition:

BENEATH THIS STONE RESTS THE BODY
OF A BRITISH WARRIOR
UNKNOWN BY NAME OR RANK
BROUGHT FROM FRANCE TO LIE AMONG
THE MOST ILLUSTRIOUS OF THE LAND
AND BURIED HERE ON ARMISTICE DAY
11 NOV: 1920, IN THE PRESENCE OF
HIS MAJESTY KING GEORGE V
HIS MINISTERS OF STATE
THE CHIEFS OF HIS FORCES
AND A VAST CONCOURSE OF THE NATION

THUS ARE COMMEMORATED THE MANY
MULTITUDES WHO DURING THE GREAT
WAR OF 1914 - 1918 GAVE THE MOST THAT
MAN CAN GIVE LIFE ITSELF
FOR GOD
FOR KING AND COUNTRY
FOR LOVED ONES HOME AND EMPIRE
FOR THE SACRED CAUSE OF JUSTICE AND
THE FREEDOM OF THE WORLD

THEY BURIED HIM AMONG THE KINGS BECAUSE HE
HAD DONE GOOD TOWARD GOD AND TOWARD
HIS HOUSE

Around the main inscription are four texts:

THE LORD KNOWETH THEM THAT ARE HIS (top)
UNKNOWN AND YET WELL KNOWN, DYING AND BEHOLD WE LIVE (side)
GREATER LOVE HATH NO MAN THAN THIS (side)
IN CHRIST SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE (base)


A year later, the Warrior was given the US Medal of Honor on 17 October 1921, from the hand of General Pershing; it hangs on a pillar near to his burial site. (Later, on 11 November 1921, the U.S. Unknown Soldier was reciprocally awarded the Victoria Cross, Britain's highest award for gallantry.)

When Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon married the future King George VI on 26 April 1923, she laid her bouquet at the Tomb on her way into the Abbey, as a tribute to her brother Fergus who had died at the Battle of Loos in 1915. The gesture has since been copied by every royal bride married at the Abbey, though on the way back from the altar rather than to it. It is also the only tomb not to have been covered by a special red carpet for Elizabeth II's wedding.

When Alfred Rosenberg, the Nazi ideologist, visited Britain on a diplomatic mission in 1933 he laid a wreath with a Swastika on it at the tomb. A British war veteran threw it into the Thames.

Before she died in 2002, the Queen Mother expressed the wish for her wreath to be placed on the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior. Her daughter the Queen laid the wreath the day after the funeral.



John Hogan and Issy Smith both from the Manchester Regiment where part of the guard of honour of one hundred recipients of the Victoria Cross and under the command of Colonel Bernard Freyberg VC. (who had cammanded the Manchester Regiment.)

The picture is of the coffin of the Unknown Warrior being carried along the guayside at the Admiralty Pier.
 
Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 31, 2017, 05:48:20 PM
Reproduced with permission of Mike Roden from his web site

Aftermath - When the Boys Came Home

http://www.aftermathww1.com 
 
Thank-you.


from the Manchester Evening News 3 April 2003

A Salute to the Manchester Pals
by Clarissa Satchell


THE stars of a war film will pay tribute to Manchester heroes at a living history event at Heaton Park.

The Manchester Regiment 1914-18 is a group of volunteers who perform living history events to teach about the Great War.

Their work is so acclaimed that its fame has travelled to France, where ten members will appear in a short film called Play the Game.

Later this month, the group will also re-create the experiences of the Manchester Pals at Heaton Park, where they trained before going to fight in the First World War.

The Pals were the men raised by a recruitment drive in the autumn of 1914.

Organiser Brian Walton said: "It's different from re-enactment, as it's more educational and the emphasis is on showing what it would have been like for the military during the Great War.

"We will hold talks and rifle drills and have tents set out in a camp where we will be cooking traditional food. It's important for people to remember what the Pals went through for us and bringing history to life in this way is so much more interesting than a dusty old book, especially for children."

The Manchester Regiment 1914-18 stages exhibitions in parks and works with English Heritage at events all over the country. Members make an annual pilgrimage to France, which led to their invitation to take part in the Play The Game film.

It follows a captain whose soldiers kicked footballs across No Mans' Land on the first day of the Battle of the Somme in 1916, when the British Army lost 60,000 men in one day.

Filming starts next week, but all will be back in time for the living history event, called The Manchester Pals Training Camp 1914-1915. It is being held at Heaton Park on April 26 and 27, with displays starting at noon

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 31, 2017, 05:50:17 PM
Reproduced with permission of Mike Roden from his web site

Aftermath - When the Boys Came Home
http://www.aftermathww1.com 
 
Thank-you.


from The Manchester Evening News, Thursday September 3, 1998

GREAT SURVIVOR

by Max Arthur

MIKE Lally, who celebrated his 104th birthday yesterday (pictured above), is the oldest surviving "Old Contemptible". At 20, he was a private in the 2nd Battalion The Manchester Regiment when it crossed to France in August 1914 as part of the British Expeditionary Force.
The BEF put up such a good fight that Raiser Wilhelm ordered his generals to "exterminate" General French's "contemptible" little army.
"Well he didn't do that, did he!" says Mike, laughing defiantly in his room at a Blackley nursing home.
"I think one of the reasons why I survived was because life was so hard before I joined the army" Mike was born in Whitehead Buildings, Oldham Road, Manchester, one of eight children. He was brought up in Stocks Street, Cheetham, and went to St Chad's school until he was eight when he was sent away to Mill Street Industrial School. There he was taught shoemaking, but he was always playing truant, swimming naked in the canal. He was caught and sentenced to three strokes of the birch for what the headmistress called 'showing your person'.
Defiant as ever, he was again caught swimming and this time was sent to the Approved School, St Joseph's, Longsight.
Hard as life was, Mike received a sound musical education. In 1909 the great American composer of marches, John Philip Sousa, came to Manchester and conducted the local boys' bands. Mike had written the words to a song and Sousa named it My Boys. "We played that every time we marched down the street," Mike remembers proudly.
Mike joined the Manchester Regiment when he was 16. In 1913 it was sent to Ireland to deal with the Troubles. While the Regiment was playing football, they were stoned by the locals. "Nothing much has changed," he says ruefully.
Later, in the first attack in France, he saw the British cavalry charge against the German trenches. "They came up against barbed wire and had no chance. They were shot at point blank range. What was left of the horses came back with those fine-boned lads, flopped dead over their saddles. It was a terrible sight."
He had his 20th birthday in the mud of the Western Front. When he received 100 francs for officially becoming a man soldier, his sergeant, Hogan [pictured right], took it from him and spent it on drink when they were away from the front line. This really annoyed Mike.
By October, the Manchesters were fighting a rearguard action.In one particular fierce attack, the Germans advanced and not only forced them to retreat but took 12 prisoners. Sgt Hogan called for volunteers and went over the top.
He launched a bayonet charge against the surprised enemy, and not only came back with the prisoners, but with several Germans as well. For this action, he was awarded the Victoria Cross.
Many years later, Mike was walking near Piccadilly station in Manchester when he saw a man standing in the street selling matches.
He thought he recognised him and asked if he was Hogan, who replied, "Yes, do you know me?"
Mike said: "I was in the trench when you brought back our prisoners and got your VC."
"What's your name?" said Hogan.
"Well, you had a hundred francs off me on my 20th birthday and spent them in the village."
"Bloody hell," said Hogan, "it's Lally!"
Mike fought in some of the worst battles of the war, including the Somme in 1916. Because of the Regiment's casualties, at 22 he became their acting Sergeant Major.
When the British and Allied Forces launched the big push in August 1918, Mike was seriously wounded in the advance. "I was in an open trench when a shell came over and burst and shrapnel smashed into my face and hands." He lost his trigger finger and the tops of two fingers of his left hand. Having recovered from his wounds, he continued as a drill sergeant in the army for another 10 years. Thirty years later a dentist removed fragments from his jaw.
He then worked in security and in the market in Manchester. He is still active and full of wry humour and has a fund of stories.

Timberman

Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 31, 2017, 05:51:55 PM
Reproduced with permission of Mike Roden from his web site

Aftermath - When the Boys Came Home

http://www.aftermathww1.com 
 
Thank-you.

from The Manchester Evening News, Monday November 9, 1998

Ageless homage is paid to the dwindling band of war heroes
Story: MIKAELA SITFORD

Picture: JASON LOCK

ONE of the country's oldest war heroes refused to let his frailty stop him remembering his fallen comrades.
At the astonishing age of 104, Manchester Regiment veteran Mike Lally (left) was on parade at the Remembrance Day service in the city centre.
Memories are still vivid for Mike, one of eight children, who joined up as a band boy in 1910.
Another emotional moment awaits the old soldier - he will be presented with the Legion d'Honneur, France's highest award, at a special ceremony at the Blackley residential home where he now lives.
Mike is one of nine First World War soldiers from Greater Manchester to receive the French honour as part of the 80th anniversary of the end of hostilities.
You can read more about Mike elsewhere.

Timberman

Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 31, 2017, 05:53:20 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)


Reproduced with permission of Mike Roden from his web site

Aftermath - When the Boys Came Home

http://www.aftermathww1.com

Thank-you

from Manchester Evening News, Tuesday April 20, 1999
 
Last post for Somme hero Mike
BY IAN MARROW
FIRST World War hero Mike Lally has died aged 104.
One of the last of the "Old Contemptibles," Queen Victoria was still on the throne when Mr Lally was born in 1894.
He survived the killing fields of France and along with a handful of other veterans was presented with the Legion d'Honneur — France's highest award — in a recent ceremony at Manchester Town Hall.
"He was a wonderful old chap and will be greatly missed," said a spokesman for Thornlea Rest Home in Blackley, where he spent his last seven years..
Born in Oldham Road, Collyhurst, Mr Lally was brought up in a family of eight children in Cheetham.
He joined the Manchester Regiment as a band boy in 1910 and went to France as a member of the British Expeditionary Force in 1914.
Surviving the Somme and going over the top on the first day of the battle of Passchendaele, he was wounded in the Big Push of 1918 but stayed in the Army for another 10 years as a drill sergeant.
Requiem Mass is to be held tomorrow at St Dunstan's RC Church, Moston, followed by interment at St Joseph's Cemetery, Moston.
He leaves a daughter Cecilia, sons Michael and John, 10 grandchildren and six great grandchildren.
A newspaper feature about Mike Lally The Great Survivor appeared last year, and he was pictured at (sadly) his last Remembrance Day ceremony in Homage is paid to dwindling band of veterans.


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 31, 2017, 05:56:08 PM
Reproduced with permission of Mike Roden from his web site

Aftermath - When the Boys Came Home

http://www.aftermathww1.com 

from the Independent 10 November 2002

Secret records of Great War troops released after 85 years
By Severin Carrell and Elizabeth Boston

The relatives of two million soldiers who served in the trenches of the Great War are to be allowed to read their once-secret war records, nearly 85 years after the conflict ended.
The vast archive, which is held at the Public Record Office in Kew, south-west London, contains nearly 24 million pages of documents, including the soldiers' once confidential medical, disciplinary and war records and private letters.
In some cases, relatives who have read the first batches of released papers have had some startling surprises, such as discovering that their men had children from previous marriages or had concealed having caught sexually transmitted diseases on duty.
And buried among the documents are the tattered records of the author and satirist "Saki" – H H Munro – who was killed in the trenches on 14 November 1916. They record that Munro had been hospitalised with influenza and then promoted to lance-sergeant in the weeks before he died.
The completion of the archive, which is announced by the PRO today to mark Remembrance Sunday, has delighted historians and socio- logists. Until now, only officers' and Guards regiments' records had been widely available to the public and historians. The new archive, which includes only privates and non-commissioned officers, is now one of the largest and most detailed surviving records of military life and British society during the Edwardian era.
These documents had lain largely unread for 55 years after surviving the Blitz. In September 1940, in the earliest days of the Blitz, a Luftwaffe incendiary bomb deva- stated the War Office's vast records store in Bermondsey, south London.
The store had held more than 6.5 million service records from the late 1890s through to 1920. Only two million individual records survived the blast and subsequent fire. They were left in a delicate condition and became known to historians as the "burnt documents".
Archivists have spent nearly seven years copying the singed and fragile pages on to microfilm, after being given £5.3m from the Heritage Lottery Fund and the Mormon Genealogical Society of Utah, which places great religious weight on tracing family lines.
The papers also include much clearer evidence about the tens of thousands of Asian, African-Caribbean, Canadian, Australasian and even Armenian men who volunteered, said William Spencer, a PRO historian. "It is now possible to study the final part of the world war – the human dimension," he said. "It contains two million individual stories, and their personal circumstances. It's fascinating."
Hew Strachan, professor of the history of war at Oxford University and an expert on the Great War, said that the "burnt documents" would shed light on the migration, employment, and living patterns over 20 years of British social history.
They would allow academics to answer controversial questions about the mental and physical fitness of recruits. "These are extraordinarily detailed and informative," he said. "The questions that leap to mind are: is it true that medical standards were waived when manpower quotas were getting desperate? Is it true that there was no real psychological profiling for those accused of cowardice?"
* A campaign to raise £1.2m for Britain's first national memorial to the hundreds of thousands of animals that died or saw active service was boosted last night by a £25,000 donation from the Amalgamation of Racing Pigeons group. The memorial is to be built on London's Park Lane.
The boy from Moss Side
Every woman in the Cookson family has a portrait of Joe Cookson on the wall, in honour of the teenaged soldier who lied about his age to join up, and never came home.
Adding months to his age, he claimed to be 17 and answered one of General Kitchener's first calls to arms, joining the 12th Battalion, the Manchester Regiment in October 1914.
Joe, from Moss Side, Manchester, died on the Western Front in the winter of 1915, leaving behind a few personal effects, his military portrait and a mystery: how and when exactly did he die?
His great-niece, Lynne Cookson, has now found his service record in the Public Record Office, which answers a few questions. It reveals that he served for only a few weeks at the front before he was killed. And in those documents is a short, tattered letter from his parents, anxiously asking the War Office to confirm an eyewitness report from one of his comrades that their son had died.
Joe's sister Ada, now in her 90s, has seen the letter. "It did bring him back, and she started talking about him more," said Lynne Cookson. "When I first read their letter I was actually quite angry they had to write and ask what had happened to their son. I can't imagine how my great-grandparents felt."
A rough diamond redeemed
Private Jack Sweeney is well known to military historians as the rough diamond who exchanged gentle love letters from the trenches with Ivy, a Sunday school teacher in suburban London.
But the romantic story has been given a fresh twist by the discovery in his service records of a long series of disciplinary offences, which he kept quiet from Ivy and their children.
The papers show that while serving as a cook on the Somme, at Ypres and in the Mediterranean, he was repeatedly put on charges and confined to barracks. Among other offences, he went absent without leave, hit a sergeant in Gibraltar and got drunk in Marrakesh. He served 165 hours' detention for being insubordinate to an NCO, was confined to barracks for seven days for neglecting his rifle and for a further 14 days for insulting another NCO.
These revelations suggest that Jack Sweeney was redeemed by his long-distance affair with Ivy, said Malcolm Brown, an Imperial War Museum historian who first uncovered the story.
"He was a real skiver and scrimshanker, saved by the love of a wonderful woman," he said. They married in March 1918, and lived together happily until Jack's death in 1960.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 31, 2017, 05:59:26 PM
Reproduced with permission of Mike Roden from his web site

Aftermath - When the Boys Came Home

http://www.aftermathww1.com 


from Manchester Evening News  Wednesday 8 November 2000
Tribute to a modest hero
Grandson wins fight to honour old soldier
BY MIKAELA SITFORD

WAR hero Harry Grantham used to Joke to his grandchildren that his vast array of medals were for "being the best boozer" in local pubs.
In fact, Harry had done his country proud in two world wars and his collection included the Distinguished Conduct Medal for a reconnaissance mission behind enemy lines.
Now, 85 years on, his grandson Joe Grantham has won proper recognition for the brave old soldier by unveiling a blue plaque outside the Territorial Army centre in Ashton.
Joe, from Dukinfield, said: "I don’t think he would have minded really.
I am very proud of him. I am 50 years old and I have never been shot at or even seen friendly fire. When Harry was 50 it was 1939 and he was facing his second world war."
Harry, born in Ashton in 1889, enlisted in the 3rd Volunteer Battalion Manchester Regiment at the tender age of 17. By 20, he had been promoted to Lance-CorporaL
His impressive military career saw him fight In Egypt, France and Gallipoli, even after his neck was grazed by a bullet, winning promotions and 11 medals.
He was awarded an MBE for his long service to the Territorial Army after retiring as Regimental Quartermaster Sergeant for the 9th Battalion in 1943.
But Harry’s amazing military success was tempered with humanity. When he won the Distinguished Conduct Medal with a reconnaissance of the enemy’s trenches in 1915. he saved his comrades in the lower ranks from taking the risk.
Joe said: "The battalion had all been recruited together in Ash-ton so these were all lads he knew from home. He knew he was the only single bloke, so he did it instead."
Joe spent two years campaigning for Harry’s plaque after talking it through with his father, Joe senior, before he died.
He said "I want everyone to know what he and all the others did for us. We must never forget"

Timberman

The blue disc photo was taken last summer.(it's from my collection)
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on December 31, 2017, 06:01:32 PM
Reproduced with permission of Mike Roden from his web site

Aftermath - When the Boys Came Home

http://www.aftermathww1.com

from Manchester Metro 9 November 2001

Medal at last for Jack, 105
by Dianne Bourne

WAR veteran Jack Baird is to be honoured for his bravery at last — 85 years after he risked life and limb for his country.
He’ll receive the Legion d’Honneur, France’s highest military honour, for his role in the Battle of the Somme in 1916.
Jack is 105 and is believed to be the oldest ever recipient of the medal.
Nurses at the home in Choriton where he has lived for the last two years, are working with Royal British Legion officials to arrange a private ceremony.
"He’ll be tickled pink to finally get it," said great-nephew Marc Brealey.
"He told my father an awful lot about the war and his memories of that time are profuse."
Jack, who has seen life through three centuries, fought in the trenches during the First World War and survived the Battle of the Somme, in which 60,000 soldiers perished.
He cheated death when he was hit by fragments of a German shell and lost a huge amount of blood. An officer picked him up, took him to a field hospital and saved his life.
It was as he was convalescing that he met his future wife Ellen.
They lived together in Stretford, he worked as a draughtsman and retired in the 1950s.
The French government awarded the Legion d’Honneur to surviving veterans of the Somme in 1996, the 80th anniversary of the battle.
But John was unable to attend the ceremony due to ill health and never received his medal.
He was born in Salford in 1896, joined the Lancashire Fusiliers as a teenager with his friends, while his brother Tom joined the Manchester Regiment.
Jack told after the war how he and his comrades were shelled on the eve of the Big Push, the day on which more British soldiers died than any other in history.
"Apparently Jack soon had to take cover by travelling down a ramp into deeper trench lines - but all in single file," said Marc, who has been researching his great uncle’s life.
"He describes hearing a huge shell coming at the group, pressing his body against the trench for cover and getting hit in the shoulder by fragments.
"My Aunt Pat used to play with the fragments well after the war."
The shell wound caused a great loss of blood, and he was hugely shaken.
"He collected his wits, and decided that waiting for a stretcher meant death so he struggled to fmd a field hospital, although he was very dangerously ill."
Jack, who is profoundly deaf and blind in one eye, now lives at The Conifers nursing home, in Chorlton.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 05, 2018, 09:03:18 AM
Reproduced with permission of Mike Roden from his web site

Aftermath - When the Boys Came Home

http://www.aftermathww1.com

Private Sydney Bone
a forgotten corner of an English churchyard
Longer ago than I like to remember I used to walk my daughters to their junior school next to St Paul's Church in Withington, Manchester. Over the years I occasionally noticed a couple of war grave headstones close to one wall of the churchyard.

When you see something so often it ceases to register, but recently at long last I decided to take a closer look. One of the headstones relates to someone killed in the Second World War, but the headstone pictured on the left commemorates Private Sydney Bone of the Manchester regiment who died on 11 February 1920, aged 24.

The Debt of Honour register at the Commonwealth War Graves commission website provided me with the additional information that Sydney's parents William and Sarah Ellen Bone lived at 92 Hill Street in Withington (just a short walk from the churchyard). The stone itself has the inscription "Buried in this churchyard" which seems to indicate that the grave itself is separated from its marker.

The Debt of Honour register also provides the following historical information:
During the two world wars, the United Kingdom became an island fortress used for training troops and launching land, sea and air operations around the globe. There are more than 170,000 Commonwealth war graves in the United Kingdom, many being those of servicemen and women killed on active service, or who later succumbed to wounds. Others died in training accidents, or because of sickness or disease. The graves, many of them privately owned and marked by private memorials, will be found in more than 12,000 cemeteries and churchyards. Withington (St Paul) Churchyard contains three First World War burials and one from the Second World War
I haven't yet had time to locate the other Great War burials, nor to research any further just what happened to Sydney. Given his age he must almost certainly have served during the war, but there's no clue as to whether he died as a result of wounds sustained in action, or from some later accident or illness. I'll certainly try and discover more about him, and I'll update this piece when I have more information.
________________________________________

January 2003
As he's done before (see Three Brave Brothers) Alan Seymour has undertaken some detective work and found out more about Private Bone. In his copy of 'Manchester City Battalions - Book of Honour', published in 1916, he's discovered that 20278 Pte. Bone S. served in B" Company, V. Platoon 22nd (Service) Battalion Manchester Regiment.

Alan tells me that Sydney must have enlisted in 1915/16 and thus would almost certainly have seen service abroad during the war. We even have a photograph of Sydney, though unfortunately I cannot point to any of the soldiers in his platoon photograph (reproduced below) and say for certain that it is him. If anyone can help out there...
 
Many thanks to Alan Seymour for the information.


Timberman

For some reason Sydney has been omitted from the 22nd roll of honour?

(Please note these snippets are being reproduce word for word in their original form)
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 05, 2018, 09:28:00 AM
Reproduced with permission of Mike Roden from his web site

Aftermath - When the Boys Came Home

http://www.aftermathww1.com


from Manchester Evening News, Friday August 27, 1999

Jibe about 'thick' soldiers leaves a son fighting mad
BY SARAH LESTER

CONTROVERSIAL radio talk show host James Stannage has come under fire after describing First World War soldiers as "thick and ignorant."
The comments were made during a discussion about national pride on Piccadilly Magic 1152.
Joe Dodd, 63, from Droylsden (right), whose dad George served in the Manchester Regiment between 1908 and 1924, blasted Mr Stannage's views as absolute treachery.
"It a disgraceful thing to say, I was very shocked. People from every village and town fought for their country and laid down their lives. It's disrespectful to their memory.
"James Stannage wouldn't have a microphone to speak into if it wasn't for those young men. I feel very angry at what I heard.
"I would like to see him stand at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Day and see if he could repeat those words there. He should be made to give a public apology."
Mr Stannage said: "I, like many othhers, lost family and know people who lost family and friends in World War One. But, it doesn't mean I don't think that many of the young soldiers were ignorant of what they were letting themselves into. They were completely unaware of what lay ahead and I certainly wouldn't die for my country like that."
Dave Shearer, programme director at Piccadilly Magic 1152, said:
"James Stannage's views on this subject are well known to his audience and have been aired by him  over many programmes."
In 1997 Piccadilly Radio was fined £10,000 by the Radio Authority for comments made by Mr Stannage about grief-riders, hours after the deaths of five teenagers in a car crash in Cheetham. He was taken off air for 24 hours and later apologised.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 05, 2018, 09:29:33 AM
Halifax Hundred.

From the Halifax Herald 1947

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 05, 2018, 09:30:48 AM
Post card


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:24:48 AM
No1
Daniel Serrick

Daniel Serrick was born in Jollimore, Nova Scotia in September, 1920. In 1938 Serrick went to England and joined the Manchester Regiment, serving with 'B' Company until his evacuation from Dunkirk in June, 1940. He then transferred to the British Commandos and then to the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion in July, 1942. From there Serrick volunteered for the joint American and Canadian The First Special Service Force and was killed in the Italian campaign on May 29, 1944. Daniel Serrick is buried in the Beach Head War Cemetery, Anzio, Italy.

© 2009 Canadian Letters & Images Project

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:25:44 AM
No2
Daniel Serrick

Serrick Brothers
Halifax Herald 1940
Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:28:24 AM
No3

Daniel Serrick


Letter home to his sister

© 2009 Canadian Letters & Images Project

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:29:07 AM
No4

Daniel Serrick


Letter home to his sister

Serrick, Daniel
Letter
Date:
October 11, 1943
To:
Evelyn Serrick
From:
Daniel Serrick
Dear Sis:

I guess it's about time for me to write to you - it won't be much because at present my time is rather limited; as you probably suspect we are about to leave this station so there is a considerable
amount of confusion around here - and I might add theres plenty of work so you have only a class "B" priority on my time.

I think I can at this stage say that I had a darn good time on my last leave I'll admit that it was rather quiet and tame but that's what I liked about it; my only regret is that I wasn't able to spend more time with you; I like your company (such as it is). In view of forthcoming
events its pretty hard to say when I'm likely to see you all again, however we,have to be patient.

By the way when you take some of those pictures you were talking
about you can pick out a couple of the best ones and send them to me for
my approval, of course I will return them after I've seen them - the reason I want you to send a couple is because I don't want too much responsibility & bulk on my person when travelling. I told you that story before so we won't go into it any further.

I am going to the Post Theatre to night with Jerry - It's his turn to pay so with that point in mind I'll probably enjoy it; as yet we don't know what's showing. I hope it's a good one. By the way Jerry has asked me to send his second best love to you - do you feel flattered; you should.

How are you making out in your affair with Jack, please don't get the
idea that I'm being nosey or trying to spoil your fun - That Ape is not your type. "When you cool down,put the pieces of this page in the waste basket."

Well Sis I am finishing this letter off now - theres lots more that
I could write about, but as I said before time is limited so I'll save
it for a later date!

All the Best
Love Dan



© 2009 Canadian Letters & Images Project

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:30:33 AM
No5

Daniel Serrick

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:33:17 AM
No6

Daniel Serrick

The first picture is of his last visit home and the second is of his original grave marker.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:34:02 AM
No7

Daniel Serrick

Halifax Herald
Daniel Serrick Silver Star Presentation Feb 12 1947 to his brother Richard C Serrick

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:35:18 AM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)




No8

Daniel Serrick

Post card

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:36:42 AM
Last one for

Daniel Serrick

Early photos and his medals, including the silver star.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:38:29 AM
Not sure where the next five posts came from, had them a while  :)

The Manchester Regiment

The 63rd Foot was raised in 1757, the 96thFoot in 1824 and became the 1st & 2nd Battalions The Manchester Regiment in 1881
When first formed the badge was the city coat of arms but later the badge just had the plain fleur de leys which originated from the old 63rd Foot.
In 1942 the 1st Battalion was captured at the fall of Singapore, but a small party had departed earlier to England to form a new battalion to preserve the regiment, 370 men died in the POW camp.
The Colours are in Manchester Cathedral together with the memorials in the regimental chapel.
1958.09.01 amalgamated with 1st Bn, The King's Regiment (Liverpool), to form 1st Bn, The King's Regiment (Manchester and Liverpool)

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:38:58 AM
The Manchester Regiment

Battle Honours WW1

The Great War [42 battalions]:

 Mons, Le Cateau, Retreat from Mons, Marne 1914, Aisne 1914, La Bassée 1914, Armentières 1914, Givenchy 1914, Neuve Chapelle, Ypres 1915 '17 '18, Gravenstafel, St. Julien, Frezenberg, Bellewaarde, Aubers, Somme 1916 '18, Albert 1916 '18, Bazentin, Delville Wood, Guillemont, Flers-Courcelette, Thiepval, Le Transloy, Ancre Heights, Ancre 1916 '18, Arras 1917 '18, Scarpe 1917, Bullecourt, Messines 1917, Pilckem, Langemarck 1917, Menin Road, Polygon Wood, Broodseinde, Poelcappelle, Passchendaele, St. Quentin, Bapaume 1918, Rosières, Lys, Kemmel, Amiens, Hindenburg Line, Épéhy, Canal du Nord, St. Quentin Canal, Beaurevoir, Cambrai 1918, Courtrai, Selle, Sambre, France and Flanders 1914-18, Piave, Vittorio Veneto, Italy 1917-18, Doiran 1917, Macedonia 1915-18, Helles, Krithia, Suvla, Landing at Suvla, Scimitar Hill, Gallipoli 1915, Rumani, Egypt 1915-17, Megiddo, Sharon, Palestine 1918, Tigris 1916, Kut al Amara 1917, Baghdad, Mesopotamia 1916-18

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:39:23 AM
The Manchester Regiment

Battle Honours WW2
The Second World War: Dyle, Withdrawal to Escaut, Defence of Escaut, Defence of Arras, St. Omer-La Bassée, Ypres-Comines Canal, Caen, Esquay, Falaise, Nederrijn, Scheldt, Walcheren Causeway, Flushing, Lower Maas, Venlo Pocket, Roer, Ourthe, Rhineland, Reichswald, Goch, Weeze, Rhine, Ibbenburen, Dreirwalde, Aller, Bremen, North-West Europe 1940 '44-45, Gothic Line, Monte Gridolfo, Coriano, San Clemente, Gemmano Ridge, Montilgallo, Capture of Forli, Lamone Crossing, Defence of Lamone Bridgehead, Rimini Line, Montescudo, Cesena, Italy 1944, Malta 1940, Singapore Island, Malaya 1941-42, North Arakan, Kohima, Pinwe, Shwebo, Myinmu Bridgehead, Irrawaddy, Burma 1944-45


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:41:26 AM
The Manchester Regiment

Deployment
1st Battalion

1814 63rd Regiment of Foot
redesignated on disbandment of 2nd Battalion
 
1815 West Indies
1819 England
1820 Ireland
1826.12 Portugal
1828.07? England
1828 Australia
1833 India
1838 Burma
1842 India
1847 England
1851 Ireland
1854 Crimea
1856 Nova Scotia
1862 Canada
1865 England
1867 Ireland
1870 India
1880 Afghanistan

1881.07.01 1st Battalion, The Manchester Regiment

1881 India
1882 Egypt
1883 England: Shorncliffe
<1883.08> London: Tower of London
1883.09 Warley
<1885> Shorncliffe
1888 Ireland: Tipperary
1891 Kinsale
1893 Limerick
1894 England: Aldershot
1897 Gibraltar
1899.06 Natal
1899 South Africa
1903 Singapore
1904 India: Sitapur
1906 Secunderabad
1909 Kemptee
1911 Jullunder
1914.10 Lahore Division/BEF
1916.01.08 Mesopotamia
1918.04.23 Egypt
1918.06.24 Palestine
1919 England: Aldershot
1920.03.02 Ireland: Ballincolig
1922 Channel Islands
1923 Germany Army of Occupation
1927 England: Shorncliffe
1931 Gosport
1933 West Indies
1935 England: Catterick
1936 Egypt
1937? Palestine
1938 Singapore MG bn
1939 Singapore
1942.02.15 captured by the Japanese in Malaya

1942.05.05 re-formed in UK by redesignation of 6th Battalion
1942 UK 55 Div
1944 NW Europe
1945 Germany
1947 UK

1948.04.05 amalgamated with 2nd Battalion without change of title
1948 Germany 2 Div, BAOR
1951 Malaya
1954 Germany: Wuppertal
1956.04 Germany: Wuppertal 11 Bde
1958.09.01 amalgamated with 1st Bn, The King's Regiment (Liverpool), to form 1st Bn, The King's Regiment (Manchester and Liverpool)

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:42:00 AM
The Manchester Regiment

2nd Battalion

1824.01.28 96th Regiment of Foot
raised at Manchester

1824 England
1824 Nova Scotia
1825 West Indies
1828 Nova Scotia
1835 England
1836 Ireland
1839 England
1839 New South Wales
1844 New Zealand
1847 New Zealand
1849 India
1854 Ireland
1856 Gibraltar
1857 England
1860 Ireland
1862 England
1862 Cape of Good Hope
1865 India
1875 England

1881.07.01 2nd Battalion, The Manchester Regiment
1881 Malta
1882 Egypt
1882 India: Multan
1886 Agra
1890 Sialkot
1893 Chakratta
1895 Dinapore
1897 Aden
1898 Manchester
1899 Ireland-
1900.04 South Africa
1902 England: Aldershot
1904 Channel Islands: Guernsey
1907 Portsmouth
1909 Mullingar
1912 Ireland: Curragh
1914.08. France and Flanders 5 Div
1915.12 France and Flanders 32 Div
1919 India: Kemptee
1920
Iraq
53 Bde, 18 Div
1922 Jubbulpore
1925 Burma: Rangoon
1928 Maymyo
1929 India: Secunderabad
1932 Sudan
1933 England: Strensall
1937 Aldershot MG bn, 2 Div
1939.09 France & Belgium BEF Troops
1940.06 UK
1941.11 UK 2 Inf Div
1942.06 India/Burma
1945 India

1947 UK converted back to infantry
1948.04.05 amalgamated with 1st Battalion

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:44:54 AM
Tameside Advertiser
Pennies sent from Heaven

November 12, 2008
A COLLECTION of commemorative plaques are to go on display at an Ashton museum in memory of those who died during the First World War.
The circular bronze plaques, also known as Dead Man’s Pennies, were issued at the end of the war for families to remember their loved ones by.
Now for the first time the Museum of the Manchester Regiment has put its collection of around 120 plaques on permanent display.
The new exhibition was launched on Remembrance Day — exactly 90 years since World War One came to an end — along with a roll of honour. All known details are included such as where the men served and where they died.
Garry Smith, curator at the town hall museum, said: "Each of the plaques was given to the next of kin of soldiers who fell while serving with the Manchester Regiment.
"Families had to apply to the Board of Trade and they were sent out along with a memorial scroll and a note from the King. We hope that by putting this together we can bring some of the stories out and make people think about the experiences of these men. We’ve started a large research project and we are building up a picture, but we’re always looking for people to come in and share their memories with us."
Among the men honoured is Arnold Davis, from Denton, whose plaque was donated by a family friend. The 27 year old was sent home from war with a shrapnel injury but died of blood poisoning two weeks later.
Great-niece Loraine Council discovered the plaque on a visit to the museum and has also discovered a letter written from the front.
"He talks about people dying as if it’s an everyday occurrence — I suppose it was," she said. "He must have been terrified of having to go back. I think the new display is absolutely fantastic — it’s recognition at last."
IN memorium: Loraine Council with a picture of her great uncle Arnold Davies who died in World War One


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:49:29 AM
Tameside Advertiser
Plaque pays tribute to Crimean veterans

April 24, 2002
SOLDIERS who served in the Crimean War have been remembered with a blue plaque in honour of their bravery.
It is to be placed on Alma Bridge, in Dukinfield, in memory of the first battle ever fought in the Crimean.
But as the bridge tends to be busy, it was unveiled at the Astley Arms pub before being transferred to its permanent site above the River Tame.
"Because the road is so busy we thought this would be a better place to unveil the plaque as it already has one in memory of Andrew Moynihan VC who was awarded the Victoria Cross for bravery in the Crimean War," a council spokeswoman said.
Alice Lock from Tameside's local studies library said the 1854-56 war involved many local men and has been commemorated in a number of street names in the borough including Alma Bridge and Street and Inkerman Street.
Many of the Tameside men who fought were members of the 63rd regiment, which later became the Manchester regiment, and took part in many of the great battles against the Russian troops.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 09:56:23 AM
Tameside Advertiser

DCM heroes are honoured with a lasting tribute

Emilene White
April 11, 2007

TWO Ashton heroes awarded medals for bravery have been commemorated with a blue plaque.
Colour Sergeant William Yarwood Bebbington and Sergeant James Hargreaves were the only two from the Manchester Regiment to be awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal while serving in the Second World War.
Aged just 24, Colour Sergeant Bebbington was acting platoon commander and completed a daring, long-distance reconnaissance mission for the British Expeditionary Force in France in 1940, despite being in great pain from a wound in his leg. In 1942 he was taken prisoner in Singapore and put to work on the Burma/Siam railway. A year later he died of cholera aged 27, leaving wife Ethel, of Waddicore Avenue, Ashton.
Sergeant Hargreaves, of Layard Street, Ashton was awarded the medal for courage and leadership 'of a very high order' when he commanded his platoon in Italy in the crossing of the River Rubicon.
Despite the platoon position being constantly shelled and mortared, the 38 year old directed fire with complete disregard for his own safety.
Twice he crossed the flooded river with ammunitions parties while under fire, guiding them to the platoon position and enabling the guns to remain in action.
He died in Preston in January 1998.
Old comrades and family were there to see the plaque unveiled at The Armoury on Old Street, Ashton.
Andrea Hargreaves, Sergeant Hargreaves' great niece, said: "I think it's wonderful for them to be remembered in this way."

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 05:32:11 PM

From

https://www.tameside.gov.uk/blueplaque/bebbington-hargreaves

Colour Sergeant William Yarwood Bebbington

 William Yarwood Bebbington was born on 24 May 1916 to Joseph Yarwood Bebbington and Mary Ellen Bebbington (née Harrop), who resided at 144 Old Street, Ashton-under-Lyne. William had three younger brothers and a sister.
In 1936 he married Ethel Foster at St James' Church, Cowhill Lane, Ashton-under- Lyne and the couple had two children. In civilian life he was employed at the Lumb Mill in Littlemoss.
He was a pre-war member of the 9th Battalion Manchester Regiment having enlisted as a boy in November 1932. He was appointed Lance Corporal in March 1938 and acting Sergeant on 2 September 1939, the day when the Battalion was embodied for active service.
As Sergeant (3525822) at the age of twenty-four, he was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal for his bravery and leadership as an acting platoon commander with the 9th Battalion in the British Expeditionary Force in France. He and Sergeant James Hargreaves were the only two soldiers of the Manchester Regiment awarded the DCM in World War II.
He was ordered to carry out a reconnaissance prior to the occupation of a position. As soon as he set out to perform this duty he was wounded in the left leg, considerably handicapping his work. He completed his reconnaissance and insisted on personally issuing orders to his section commanders, although this meant travelling a considerable distance in great pain and delaying attention to his wound. His Company Commander, Major George Manwood, recommended him for the award.
After hospitalisation in the United Kingdom he was transferred in August 1940 to the 1st Battalion in Singapore as Colour Sergeant and Company Quartermaster Sergeant and was taken prisoner following the surrender on 16 February 1942. His wife, then living at 32 Waddicor Avenue, Ashton-under- Lyne, learnt in April 1942 that he was missing but it was over a year later, in May 1943, that she had confirmation that he was a Prisoner of War in Siam.
He had been one of the 320 Manchesters, knows as 'F' Force, commanded by Major Hyde, and sent by the Japanese to work on the Burma/Siam railway on 25 April the previous year. Six weeks later, on 27 June 1943 age twenty-seven, he died of cholera.
Two of William's brothers also served in the army; Private Joseph Yarwood Bebbington and Private Sam Yarwood Bebbington.
Colour Sergeant Bebbington was later buried in Kanchanaburi War Cemetery in Thailand.
His widow, Ethel, lives in Tameside to this day.

Sergeant James Hargreaves

 James Hargreaves was born on 31 March 1906. He had four brothers and three sisters. In 1934 he married Ivy Hall and the couple had one son, David. Ivy later died in 1955.
As a pre-war Territorial Army soldier, James Hargreaves resided at 40 Layard Street, Ashton-under-Lyne. As Sergeant (3520174) at the age of thirty-eight, he commanded 10 Platoon of 'C' Company, 9th Battalion Manchester Regiment in Italy from the crossing of the River Rubicon.
Sergeant Hargreaves was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal for his courage and leadership, described by Lieutenant Colonel Algy Parsons, his commanding officer, as 'of a very high order'. On 13 September 1944, Lieutenant Kenneth Nixon, commander of 10 Platoon, was killed and Sergeant Hargreaves took over command of the platoon. He remained in command until 9 November; during which time the platoon was in action from 13 September to 1 October and again from 11 October to 20 October.
Between 26 September and 1 October the platoon was in the area 7139671 supporting a troop of 46 Recce Regiment, which was established on the north bank of the River Rubicon. Throughout the action, although the platoon position was constantly shelled and mortared, Sergeant Hargreaves directed fire with complete disregard for his own safety and was largely instrumental in breaking up a series of enemy counterattacks on another troop position in the area 727972.
While the operations were in progress, the River Rubicon had become flooded, cutting off his platoon from the remainder of the Machine Gun Company. On two occasions Sergeant Hargreaves crossed under fire with ammunition parties, guiding them to the platoon position and enabling the guns to remain in action.
From 15 to 19 October Sergeant Hargreaves' platoon was in action before Cesena. On one occasion he was ordered to take up a forward position near the M. Romano feature. During his recce he was quick to grasp the importance of siting his guns further forward than had been anticipated, so as to produce enfilade fire behind a ridge in front of the River Savio. His intelligent appreciation of the situation resulted in a number of the enemy being trapped between his MG fire and the advancing infantry and subsequently captured.
Sergeant Hargreaves remarried in 1959, to Muriel Jolley. Two of James' brothers also served in the army; Corporal Frank Hargreaves and Captain Wilfred Hargreaves.
In civilian life James Hargreaves worked at Bowns Boilermakers of Dukinfield.
Following the war he moved to Preston where he was employed by British Rail.
James Hargreaves died in Preston on 12 January 1998.

Acknowledgements

Captain R.A. Bonner MA, Chairman, Museum of the Manchester Regiment and Tameside Local History Forum
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 05:49:55 PM
Tameside Advertiser

Lasting honour for hero

Sue Carr
March 04, 2009

A BLUE plaque has been unveiled in memory of a young soldier who was awarded Tameside’s only George Cross medal for bravery.
Corporal Kenneth Horsfield, a member of the Manchester Regiment, was working on a military base in Italy during the Second World War when an explosion left a nearby building in flames.
After spotting a comrade trapped inside the rubble, he immediately ran in to rescue him but was killed by a second explosion.
Kenneth, from Hyde, was just 23 years old when he died on 18 August, 1944. Despite marrying two years earlier he had not seen wife Marian since the wedding.
Sister-in-law Kathleen Gray, who was a bridesmaid for the couple, said: "He was in the Territorial Army and when war broke out he was 19 so they called for him straight away.
"They got married in June, 1942. He had a fortnight’s leave then he went back and he never came home."
Kenneth’s gallantry was rewarded posthumously in 1945 with the George Cross —introduced by King George VI to mark acts of outstanding bravery by civilians.
Due to sight problems Kenneth was never sent to the frontline and it was classed as a civilian rescue because it was not in battle.
A letter recommending him for the medal read: "He knew that a second explosion might occur and had in fact ordered all other men away.
"With entire disregard for his own safety he continued to fight the fire in an effort to save the trapped man."
Local historian Mike Pavasovic put Kenneth’s name forward for a blue plaque after reading his story in an old newspaper cutting.
The plaque will be put up outside his old family home in Croft Street, Hyde.
His George Cross has been donated to the Museum of the Manchester Regiment.
Relatives including Kathleen, who lives in Newton, gathered on Thursday for a special reception at Hyde Town Hall.
The 83 year old remembers hearing the news of his bravery but said she wasn’t surprised at all.
"He was a one-off, he was nice in every way," she said. "It was just typical of him, he was that kind of lad."
NEVER forgotten: Enid Slater and Kathleen Gray, Kenneth's sisters-in-law admire the blue plaque honouring the brave acts of Kenneth Horsfield,

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 05:50:52 PM
Tameside Advertiser


Smiles galore in royal decade
ROYALTY brightened up the 1980s with three visits to Tameside.
Thousands celebrated the marriage of Lady Diana Spencer and Prince Charles in 1981 by holding street parties, then schoolchildren across the borough staged mock marriage ceremonies when Sarah Ferguson and Prince Andrew married in 1986.
Tamesiders turned out in their thousands to welcome the Queen Mother when she opened the Museum of the Manchester Regiment at Ashton town hall in 1987. She must have been impressed - she arrived 10 minutes early and stayed beyond the official departure time, accepting armfuls of flowers from fans.This was followed by a visit by the Duchess of York when she opened Tameside Hospital's new £20m wing in March 1989. The fun-loving duchess arrived on Red Nose Day and wore a Comic Relief conk in her hair.
Later in the same year, Prince Charles dropped in on the people of Hattersley when he was invited to the town's community centre to look at a project backed by his own charity, the Prince's Trust.
The smiling prince was in a light-hearted mood - chatting about the price of beer with Stan Bancroft of the Memory Lane Club.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 05:54:05 PM
Reproduced with permission of Mike Roden from his web site

Aftermath - When the Boys Came Home
http://www.aftermathww1.com 


Family of Fallen Flanders war hero Harry reunited

BY NICK WEBSTER

RELATIVES of a First World War soldier whose remains were found in a Flanders field visited Bury today to honour his memory.
It was an emotional day for Annette Wilkinson, who was told about the discovery of her great-grandfather Harry’s body by the Manchester Evening News after the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers issued an appeal to find his family.
Annette was also reunited with her mother’s cousin Harry’s grandaughter — June Brammer, who she last saw 45 years ago when they were both children.
Lancashire Fusilier Private Wilkinson was killed during an attack on German positions close to the Franco-Belgian border on November 10, 1914. His body is believed to have lain undisturbed where he fell in a field near the Belgian town of Warneton ever since. The remains were found by a local historian earlier this year.
Annette and June and their families were invited to Bury by the regiment for a day of commemorative events to mark the centenary of the Battle of Spion Kop in the Boer War.
Together with 10 of Harry’s other descendants, they stood at Bury’s Cenotaph as veterans held a short service and laid wreaths.
Annette, from Shrewsbury, said: "It has all been overwhelming and has made us very proud. I’m sure he would have been touched, though a bit surprised at all the fuss."
June added: ‘It has been lovely to see each other again. I’m really thrilled."
Harry’s widow Eva who was pregnant with June’s mother, Florence, and six-year-old son, Harry, never knew what happened to him.
In the years after his death, Harry Junior and Florence’s families lost touch.
Harry Jr. who died in 1986. remained in Bury, bringing up and adopting Annette after her mother died.


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 06:02:18 PM
Reproduced with permission of Mike Roden from his web site

Aftermath - When the Boys Came Home
http://www.aftermathww1.com 

from Manchester Metro News  Friday 27  October 2000

'One of the lucky ones'

by Seb Ramsay

GREAT War veteran Reuben Heywood fought in the horror of the Western Front and was shot in both legs — but reckons he was one of the lucky ones.
The 101-year-old from Wythenshawe is the only one of his regiment still alive from the conflict.
But despite his age, he was determined to pay tribute to his fallen comrades in the run-up to the anniversary of Armistice Day next month.
So he made a gruelling journey to the regimental museum of the South Wales Borderers in Brecon.
As Reuben is the Borderers’ only known living veteran of the 1914-18 war, staff gave him a hero’s welcome.
He told how he was just 18 when he was blasted through both legs as he fought  with the regiment in north east France in the final months of the war. Reuben, who was among ex-servicemen who received the top French bravery medal In December 1998, still remembers the bullet which brought him home from the trenches.
"We were on the defensive In Bapaume in September 1918," he said.
 
Reuben (centre) in hospital in 1918
"I was kneeling down and the bullet came across and  went through  both of my legs, but missed the bones.
"I was very lucky because I’m still here and I can still walk — it could have been much worse."
Reuben, who now. lives with his daughter Brenda, told how he was found by American medics and taken to their hospital.
The British army declared him missing in action until he was re-united with his regiment and taken back to England.
He spent months in hospital in Cheltenham then returned to Manchester, to become a clerk for the electricity board.
The South Wales Borderers Regiment is now known as the Royal Regiment of Wales.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 06:03:00 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)



YOUTHS UNDER NINETEEN.

HC Deb 22 October 1918 vol 110 cc570-1 570

 Mr. PERCY ALFRED HARRIS
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether any youths under nineteen have been sent overseas by the military authorities since the 8th August; and whether arrangements have been made to withdraw from the front-line trenches lads under nineteen who were already overseas by that date?

 The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for WAR (Mr. Macpherson)
As I stated in Debate on the 7th August last, it was decided that from the end of August no soldier under nineteen years of age should be sent overseas, and this rule is still in force. The question of the withdrawal of those already in the firing line is for the decision of the Commander-in-Chief. Representations have already been made to him, but, in view of the military situation, he was unable to agree to their withdrawal. The matter is, however, still under his consideration, and I am sure that as soon as such a step is practicable the Field-Marshal will give instructions for these young soldiers to be withdrawn from the firing line.

 Mr. HARRIS
Is it not a fact that the French military authorities keep lads under nineteen in training depots, and do not send them to the front? And will the Under-Secretary make strong representations as to the strong feeling in this House against keeping lads under nineteen in the firing line? Many of them in the meantime are being killed.
 
 Mr. MACPHERSON
I have said we have made representations to the Field-Marshal Commanding-in-Chief, who is the best judge of the needs of the forces. I can assure the House again that it is with the greatest possible regret that these-young lads have been sent to the front.
 
 Mr. HOGGE
Why is it necessary to have lads of eighteen and a half in the firing line when, as the Prime Minister Assured us, 300,000 reserves were in this country when these lads were put in?

Colonel LOWTHER
Do not the lads under nineteen show great gallantry in the line as well as in the air, and would it not be an unpardonable injury to them if they were withdrawn?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
All I can say is that their conduct at the front has been simply magnificent.

 Mr. HARRIS
Is it not the opinion of the medical authorities that lads under nineteen are not fit to stand the physical strain of modern trench warfare?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
No, Sir; that is not their opinion.

 Mr. ANEURIN WILLIAMS
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been called to the case of Private Thomas Atkinson, No. L/16706, Lincolnshire Yeomanry; whether this lad will not be eighteen until June next year; whether he joined the Army voluntarily in December, 1917, when he was only sixteen; whether he is an orphan and was brought up by his elder brother, who is now an invalid and in want; and whether, in spite of the fact that the lad has now had ten months' training and cannot be sent abroad on account of his age, the Army authorities refuse to allow him to return to civil life to help to support the brother who brought him up?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
This case has been carefully considered, but I regret that Private Atkinson cannot be released from the Army.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 06:06:04 PM
ARMY SERVICE JACKETS.

HC Deb 11 May 1915 vol 71 c1454 1454

 Colonel YATE
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether the supply of khaki serge is now sufficient to permit of the service jackets of the non-commissioned officers and men being made of the same length as the officers' jackets?

 The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for WAR (Mr. Tennant)
The supply of khaki serge would be sufficient for the purpose stated, but there is no present intention of making the jackets of the non-commissioned officers and men the same length as the officers' pattern.

 Colonel YATE
Is it not possible that the much larger percentage of casualties among the officers than among the non-commissioned officers and men may be due to not making the coats of the men the same length as those of the officers?

 Mr. TENNANT
I should very much doubt whether in trench warfare that would be the case, but now that the hon. and gallant Gentleman has drawn my attention to this probability I will have it investigated.


© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 06:06:34 PM
HORSESHOES.

HC Deb 11 May 1915 vol 71 cc1454-5 1454
 
 Colonel YATE
asked whether orders have been issued to discontinue the supply of English hand-made horseshoes for the use of the Army, and contracts have bean given for American machine-made shoes to replace them; whether the latter are inferior in quality to the. English hand-made shoes and more difficult to fit under conditions prevailing at the front; and whether arrangements will be made for a continuance of the manufacture of English hand-made shoes, especially during next winter?

 The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the WAR OFFICE (Mr. Harold Baker)
I would refer the hon. and gallant Member to the answer which I gave on this subject  last Thursday to the hon. Member for Devizes, of which I will send to him a copy.

 Colonel YATE
May I ask whether the hon. Gentleman will not do something to give employment to British farriers during the present year? Why should they all be thrown out of employment by the giving of these contracts to America?

 Mr. BAKER
The hon. Member will see what is the present position. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham (Mr. Chamberlain) made a suggestion, and investigations are being made.

 Mr. BRIDGEMAN
When shall we be able to hear the result of the investigations?

 Mr. BAKER
I hope very soon. The matter was taken up immediately.


© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 06:09:29 PM
SERVICE CAPS.

HC Deb 11 May 1915 vol 71 cc1455-6 1455
 
 Colonel YATE
asked whether, considering that the flat-topped circular khaki cap has proved unsuitable on service, definite orders will now be issued abolishing the wire frame and regulating the new pattern cap with a softer top?

 Mr. TENNANT
It is not proposed to give orders for the removal of the wire frame from service dress caps in wear at home. But the notice of the military authorities in France has been drawn to the fact that the removal of the wire frame renders the cap less visible, and I understand the frame is very often removed. A new pattern cap, with a soft top, is in course of issue.

 Colonel YATE
Why should not the wire-framed khaki cap be abolished, if a new pattern of soft cap is being issued?

 Mr. TENNANT
The reason of keeping the wire-framed khaki cap is that it is considered to look more reasonable and smart for home service, but for foreign service a new pattern is being issued.

 Colonel YATE
Would not the naval pattern be suitable for the purpose?

 Mr. SPEAKER
The right hon. Gentleman does not represent the Navy.

 Mr. KELLAWAY
Can the right hon. Gentleman give us an assurance that no 1456 more of these very dangerous caps will be issued for foreign service?

 Mr. TENNANT
It is quite simple to remove the wire.

 Mr. KELLAWAY
Some officers may have removed them on their own initiative, but have instructions been given for the wire to be removed?

 Mr. TENNANT
The authorities and the men themselves at the front are perfectly alive to the situation, and they can remove the wire.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 06:10:00 PM
TUBERCULOUS SOLDIERS.

HC Deb 11 May 1915 vol 71 c1456 1456

 Sir HENRY CRAIK
asked whether the arrangements made by the War Office for tuberculous soldiers apply to soldiers suffering from tuberculosis who are discharged from military hospitals or convalescent homes to make room for the wounded or for other reasons?
 
Mr. TENNANT
Yes, Sir.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 06:11:07 PM
TRENCH WARFARE DRAWING OFFICES.

HC Deb 30 May 1918 vol 106 cc997-8W 997W

 Sir H. NIELD
asked the Minister of Munitions what was the numerical strength of the Trench Warfare Supply Drawing Office and the Trench Warfare Design Drawing Office on the 1st July, 1917, and on the 1st May, 1918, respectively, or the amalgamated office of these drawing offices on the latter date, with the names of any employés dismissed or transferred, with reason for such dismissal 998W or transfer, respectively; have any employés in such offices or the amalgamated office resigned during such period either voluntarily or pursuant to request; and, if so, what are the names of such officers?

 Mr. KELLAWAY
The staff employed in the Trench Warfare Design Drawing Office on 1st July, 1917, was sixteen. The staff employed in the Trench Warfave Supply Drawing Office on the same date was thirty-four The two drawing offices were amalgamated on 1st January, 1918, with a total staff of fifty-one. On 1st May, 1918, the staff numbered fifty-eight, and on the 29th May fifty-four. During the period one officer was dismissed owing to temporary reduction of work, coupled with the fact that his presence militated against the harmonious working of the drawing office. He was given the option of a transfer to another drawing office in the Ministry, but refused to avail himself of the offer.
Eighteen officers were transferred during the period to other Government Departments and two joined His Majesty's Forces for active military service. These transfers were consequent upon fluctuations in the work. Seven officers voluntarily resigned, and two officers were requested to resign, as it was not considered that their work was of a sufficiently high standard. I do not consider it desirable to publish the names of the officers concerned.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 06:11:50 PM
NEW ARMIES (TRAINING COOKS).

HC Deb 26 November 1914 vol 68 cc1312-4 1313

 Mr. GRANT
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War if he is aware of the lack of facilities for the training of cooks in the new regiments of His Majesty's Army; and if he can see his way to sending instructors in cookery to the various centres where such regiments are stationed?

 Mr. TENNANT
I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Aston Manor yesterday.

 Mr. BRIDGEMAN
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War if the reports from the front emphasise the importance of making trenches in the training of men for modern warfare; and whether he is satisfied that adequate facilities and equipment for digging are being provided at all the places of training in this country?

 Mr. TENNANT
Yes, Sir. The reports from the front do emphasise the importance of training in field entrenchment, and steps have been taken to ensure that all troops receive adequate training in this branch of work before being embarked for service on the Continent.

 Mr. BRIDGEMAN
Will the right hon. Gentleman answer the question whether they have got sufficient equipment?

 Mr. TENNANT
If they have not got it, they are getting it as fast as possible.

 Mr. BRIDGEMAN
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War if he is aware that the number of places marked out of bounds in the manœuvre areas and other training centres impair the practical value of training for war by excluding woods, golf links, football grounds, etc.; and if he will consider the advisability of giving a general War Office order that troops must avoid all possible damage of property and especially to growing crops?

 Mr. TENNANT
In the instructions woods are allowed to be used and there is no mention of either golf links or football grounds being excluded. The instructions do enjoin that crops and tillage should be treated with the utmost respect and farmers with all possible consideration. Troops are forbidden to pass through uncut corn and over sown land.

 Mr. BRIDGEMAN
Would it not be possible to do away with all "out-of-bounds" orders and simply rely on a general order not to damage property?
 
 Mr. TENNANT
There would be no great advantage in that course. Certain things are excluded.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 06:12:39 PM
WINTER CLOTHING FOR BRITISH PRISONERS IN GERMANY.

HC Deb 26 November 1914 vol 68 c1314 1314

 Mr. SHIRLEY BENN
asked what steps the War Office have taken to secure that the British soldiers who are prisoners in Germany are provided with the warm clothing necessary for the winter season?

 Mr. TENNANT
By Article 7 of the Annex to The Hague Convention (1907) the Government which holds prisoners of war is responsible that they are treated as regards clothing on the same footing as its own troops. This was ratified by the German Government as well as by our own. It having been reported about the middle of October that some of the troops interned in Germany were much in want of clothing, a sum of £3,000 was placed at the disposal of the American Ambassador at Berlin, he having kindly consented to disburse this for the benefit of our soldiers.

Mr. SHIRLEY BENN
May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is satisfied that the troops have got the necessary clothing?

 Mr. TENNANT
I will make a few remarks later on if the hon. Gentleman will be good enough to wait.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 06:13:26 PM
ARMY CANTEENS.

HC Deb 26 November 1914 vol 68 c1314 1314

 Mr. COTTON
asked whether the Central Board recommended to be set up for the control of Army canteens will include civilian as well as military members; if so, whether the civilians will be drawn from the War Office or from outside; whether there will be any Irish representatives on the Central Board; and when the Board is likely to be set up?

Mr. BAKER
I cannot at present make any statement as to the constitution of the Central Board. My Noble Friend has the matter under consideration.

 Â© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 06:13:57 PM
MILITARY HUTS.

HC Deb 26 November 1914 vol 68 cc1314-5 1314

 Mr. D. HALL
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether the War Office is prepared to put a wooden or other inside lining to the huts which are now being constructed for the troops, in view of the thin nature of the present match-boarding used for the outside walls?

 Mr. TENNANT
Arrangements were made some time since for inside lining to be put in the huts occupied by troops at night, for at least some distance from the floors. In exposed situations the whole of the walls will be lined. All efforts have been concentrated, in the first instance, to get the troops under cover.

 Mr. D. HALL
Arising out of the answer, are we to understand that it is entirely unnecessary for officers to pay for the lining of these huts out of their own pockets or out of regimental funds, as they are doing now in a great many instances?

 Mr. TENNANT
I think that is so. We shall do it as soon as we can find time and get the material, but our efforts are being concentrated, in the first place, in getting the huts.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman




Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 08:34:50 PM
ARMY OFFICERS (PROMOTION).

HC Deb 19 April 1917 vol 92 cc1859-60W 1859W
 
 Mr. STANTON
asked the Under Secretary of State for War if his attention has been called to the unfairness of sending young Army captains out to the front who have had no experience whatever of trench warfare to be placed over the heads of fighting sub-lieutenants; and if he will see that such positions and promotions are filled by the young lieutenants who have done the fighting, and who should get the reward and encouragement due to them?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
It is very seldom that the circumstances mentioned by my hon. Friend occur, though occasionally they are unavoidable. In the large majority of cases the rank of captain given at home is temporary and lapses on the holder going abroad.

 Major HUNT
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether the Committee appointed to consider the question of the promotion of officers of field rank in British Infantry battalions is likely to report soon in view of the urgency of the matter?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
I presume that my hon. and gallant Friend refers to the Committee of which my right hon. Friend the Member for Dundee is Chairman. I understand that the Committee is now considering its Report.

 Major HUNT
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he can consider the advisability of promoting a greater proportion of regimental officers of Regular battalions to higher commands in view of the fact that these officers have special knowledge of the present conditions of warfare, and have in many cases a distinguished record as fighting officers?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
A very large number of regimental officers are commanding brigades and several are commanding divisions.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 08:35:50 PM
HUTTING FOR TROOPS.

HC Deb 17 September 1914 vol 66 cc982-3W 983W

 Mr. C. BATHURST
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether huts are being constructed for the use of troops now under canvas in Great Britain; how many such huts are in course of construction; whether they will be available for all such troops by the 1st October, or, if not, by what later date; and whether any and, if any, what military units will be provided with them at an earlier date than others?

 Mr. TENNANT
Hutting for some 490,000 men, in addition to many Territorial troops, has been ordered. The numbers for the Territorial Force cannot be given yet, as it depends on the possibilities in each place of utilising available public buildings. As the work of constructing all these huts is one of enormous magnitude, it is obviously impossible to say on what date all will be ready. The first lot to be started were those at Belton Park, and these will be ready for occupation by the 25th September. Others will follow rapidly, but it is unlikely that all will be ready before the end of November. Work is decentralised as much as possible, and every care is being taken to utilise local resources.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 08:37:31 PM
MACHINE-GUN COMPANIES (TRAVELLING KITCHENS).

HC Deb 19 April 1917 vol 92 cc1860-1W 1860W

 Sir STUART COATS
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the discrimination involved in the fact that machine-gun companies are not supplied with cookers, so that they are deprived of hot meals when on active service, although such are regularly provided for the accompanying Infantry, the War Office will come to a decision, without further delay, as to the type of cooker which is most suitable and supply one to each machine-gun company as soon as possible?

 Mr. MACPHERSON
The War Office would be glad to supply travelling kitchens to all units, but unfortunately there are difficulties of organisation and provision, which render it impracticable in certain cases. There is, of course, no discrimination against the machine-gun companies.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 08:38:24 PM
MILITARY CAMPS.

HC Deb 10 April 1919 vol 114 c2255W 2255W

 Major COURTHOPE
asked the Secretary of State for War whether the camps at Oswestry, Rugeley, Brockton, Grantham, Catrick, Clipstone, Whitley, and Bramshott will be maintained or closed in the near future?

 Mr. CHURCHILL
All the camps mentioned, except a portion of Grantham, are required for the present to accommodate Regular units reforming in this country, for the repatriation of Dominion forces, and for demobilisation purposes. Belton Park, Grantham, will be given up in the near future.


© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 08:41:05 PM
DARDANELLES (OFFICIAL NEWS).

HC Deb 11 May 1915 vol 71 c1456 1456

 Mr. NEWDEGATE
asked the Under-Secretary for War why official news concerning the Dardanelles which could be published in Cairo on 4th May could not be published in London the same day?

 Mr. TENNANT
The official news published in Cairo on 4th May was received in London in the evening of the same day, and was then given to the Press.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 07, 2018, 08:42:20 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)





Reproduced with permission of Mike Roden from his web site

Aftermath - When the Boys Came Home

http://www.aftermathww1.com
 
The Poems of Wilfred Owen
The review of Owen's poetry which follows was recently republished by the Guardian in one of their "Centenary" supplements looking at the 20th century decade by decade as it appeared in the pages of that newspaper.
Owen is so much enmeshed in the overall image of the Great War that it is difficult to remember that there was a time when few people had heard of him. Thus the review published on December 29th, 1920, just over two years after his death is fascinating as a record of someone's first experience of reading the poems. I don't yet know who the reviewer "CP" was, but it is not impossible that he had been through similar experiences to Owen.
Sassoon, who edited the poems wanted the work to speak for itself, and refused to give any but the briefest details of the poet; which made him rather like the Unknown Warrior whose image and personality and identity could change depending on who was talking or thinking about him.
Geoff Dyer, in The Missing of the Somme, makes a very pertinent point:
To a nation stunned by grief the prophetic lag of posthumous publication made it seem that Owen was speaking from the other side of the grave. Memorials were one sign of the shadow cast by the dead over England in the twenties; another was a surge of interest in spiritualism. Owen was the medium through whom the missing spoke.
________________________________________
WILFRED OWEN'S POEMS

Poems. By Wilfred Owen. London: Chatto and Windus. Pp. ix. 33. 6s. net.
 
Lieutenant Wilfred Owen, MC., an officer of the Manchester Regiment, was killed in action on the Sambre Canal a week before the Armistice, aged 25. The twenty-three poems of this collection are the fruit of not quite two years' active service, less than half of it in the field. But they are enough to rank him among the very few war poets whose work has more than a passing value. Others have shown the disenchantment of war, have unlegended the roselight and romance of it, but none with such compassion for the disenchanted nor such sternly just and justly stern judgment on the idyllisers. To him the sight and sound of a man gassed suffice to give the lie to "dulce et decorum" and the rest of it. The atrophy that he damns is not that of the men who fought -
       having seen all things red,
The eyes are rid
Of the hurt of the colour of blood for ever;
it is the atrophy of those who "by choice...made themselves immune from
         What ever shares
The eternal reciprocity of tears.
If he glorifies the soldiers - and he does, gloriously - it is as victim, not as victor; not as the hero achieving, but as one whose sacrificial love passes the love of women:
O Live, your eyes lose lure
When I behold eyes blinded in my stead...
Heart, you were never hot,
Nor large, nor full like hearts made great with shot:
And though your hand be pale,
Paler are all which trail
Your cross through flame and hail:
Weep, you may weep, for you may touch them not.

His verse, as he says in his preface, is all of the pity of war, and "except in the pity" there is no poetry. But it is a heroic exception, for the pity gets itself into poetry in phrases which are not the elegant chasing of ineffectual silver, but the vital unbeautiful beauty of unwashed gold.
It is the poetry of pain, searing and piercing to pity; it is the poetry of the Tragic Muse, whose visage, though "marred more than any man", is yet transfigured in the sorrow of song. He has revealed the soul of the soldier as no one else has revealed it, not because his vision of the externals was less vivid and cleaving, but because to that vision he added an imagination of the heart that tnade him sure of his values:

...except you share
With them in hell the sorrowful dark of hell,
Whose world is but the trembling of a flare,
And heaven but has the highway for a shell.
You shalt not hear their mirth:
You shall not come to think them well contents
By any jest of mind. These men are worth
Your tears: you are not worth their merriment.
 
Irony his poetry has, and grim humour; but the Spirit of the Pities always breathes through the hutnour and the irony and keeps their bitterness sweet. Sometimes, as in "Mental Cases", the pain is too poignant even for pity, and moves only to the anger of despair; but more often the anger gives place to a beneficent impulse, as in "Strange Meeting" the first and one of the finest of his poems:
Then, when much blood had clogged their chariot wheels
I would go up and wash them from sweet wells,
Even with truths that lie too deep for taint.
This poem happens also to be a good example of a technical innovation that is rather puzzling. Enough has been quoted to show that Owen uses traditional metres and rhymes, but, as here, he also uses, and uses throughout the poem, a device which is neither rhyme nor assonance. It is not assonance because the vowels are different, and in any case it could not be rhyme, because the initial consonants are alike: "spoiled - spilled, "laughed - left", "grained - ground". It looks like a subtly contrived escape from tonal completeness, a calculated deflection from the kindred points of heaven and home, which are rhymes, lest the musical significant should soften the conscious starkness of his treatment. But the result gain is more than doubtful. The thing affects you as the baffling elusiveness of a fugitive pun, or the half-foiled meeting of two stanzas of a sestina; and just because of the baffling and the foiling it fails in its artistic purpose. It is significant that it is not used in his greatest poems, such as "Apologia pro Poemate Meo" and "Greater Love"; and one cannot help feeling that, fine as it is, "Strange Meeting" would have been finer without it. This trick apart, Owen uses words with the poet's questing instinct for the heart of things and his homing instinct for the heart of man. His work will not easily die.
     
Timberman :)
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 08, 2018, 10:51:04 AM
Title: Re: snippets of Manchester Regiment articles
Post by: timberman on May 26, 2009, 01:59:42 PM
 
WOUNDED SOLDIERS (RELIGIOUS MINISTRATIONS).

HC Deb 26 November 1914 vol 68 c1315 1315

 Mr. SHIRLEY BENN
asked what provision is being made in the various hospitals throughout the United Kingdom for giving religious ministrations to wounded soldiers who have returned from the front?

 Mr. TENNANT
At the larger and more important hospitals chaplains are appointed to give their whole time. At the other hospitals formed during the present emergency the ministrations are given by the local clergy of the various communions, who are appointed by the military authorities as may be necessary.

Mr. SHIRLEY BENN
Are any provisions being made for religious services being held in the wards?

 Mr. TENNANT
I must ask for notice of that question.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 14, 2018, 10:27:37 AM
Wilfred Owen
Wilfred Owen, born in Oswestry, England, was the eldest of four children. From an early age Owen began to read and write poetry. He followed his mother's evangelical influence and read the bible daily. Without having the necessary finances available to him, and failing to win an academic scholarship, Owen was deprived of a college education. By 1911, Owen had moved to nearby Dunsden to work as a lay reader, only managing to study part-time at the University of Reading.
In 1913 Owen moved to Bordeaux to work as a teacher in the Berlitz School of Languages. Soon after he became a private teacher in a prosperous Pyrenean family. He worked there until 1915 when he returned to Britain to enlist in the Artist's Rifles. After embarking on an officers' training course, Owen was commissioned in 1916. He was shipped to France on 29 December 1916.
Owen returned to Britain on 02 May 1917 after completing four months moving in and out of the frontline. He suffered from shell shock and was treated at the Craiglockhart Hospital, Edinburgh. It was there that he met Seigfried Sassoon. Sassoon is said to have heavily influenced Owen's creative style during this period, encouraging him to explore his shell-shock symptoms in his works. He published works in the hospital journal. In early 1918, after rejoining his regiment, Owen published further poems in acclaimed journals. In September 1918 Owen returned to the frontline. He was killed on 04 November 1918. His parents were notified of his death on 11 November 1918- Armistice day.
Served with 5 Battalion Manchester Regiment from 4 June 1916 (Second Lieutenant). London Gazette: (Supplement) no. 29617, p. 5726, 6 June 1916. Retrieved on 3 June 2009.
Attached to 2 Battalion Manchester Regiment from January 1917 for service on Western Front.
Wounded 2 May 1917 (not mentioned in diary).
Rejoined 2 Battalion in September 1918 after period in hospital in Edinburgh and service at home with 5 Battalion.
WO 95/2397 records his return on 15 September 1918 and on 8 October 1918 mentions the award of a Military Cross for the action of 1-2 October.
WO 95/2397 Killed in action 4 November 1918. The report of the action gives statistics but not names
WO 138/74 Personal file
MH 106/1887-1908 Craiglockhart Hospital
Military Cross, London Gazette: (Supplement) no. 31183, p. 2363, 14 February 1919. Citation London Gazette: (Supplement) no. 31480, p. 9761, 29 July 1919.
"2nd Lt, Wilfred Edward Salter Owen, 5th Bn. Manch. R., T.F., attd. 2nd Bn.
For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty in the attack on the Fonsomme Line on October lst/2nd, 1918. On the company commander becoming a casualty, he assumed command and showed fine leadership and resisted a heavy counter-attack. He personally manipulated a captured enemy machine gun from an isolated position and inflicted considerable losses on the enemy. Throughout he behaved most gallantly."

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 14, 2018, 10:29:40 AM
Wilfred Owen

Copy of the letter telling Wilfred of his transfer from the 2nd Artists Rifles to 3/5th Manchester's.


Timberman

Copyright   The English Faculty Library, University of Oxford / The Wilfred Owen Literary Estate
© University of Oxford

Click on the image to make it bigger.

Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 14, 2018, 10:31:35 AM
The following is a letter from Wilfred to his Mother, dated Jan 4th 1917.
The return address is given as 2nd Manchester Reg. BEF.

Pages 1,2.3.4.

Timberman :)


Copyright   The English Faculty Library, University of Oxford / The Wilfred Owen Literary Estate
© University of Oxford

Click on the image to make it bigger.
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 14, 2018, 10:32:50 AM
The following is the last pages of the  letter from Wilfred to his Mother, dated Jan 4th 1917.



Timberman 


Copyright   The English Faculty Library, University of Oxford / The Wilfred Owen Literary Estate
© University of Oxford

Click on the image to make it bigger.
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 11:52:00 AM
This snippet is thanks to George, one of the Mods. (more to follow)

Click on the pictures to make it bigger.

Thanks for allowing us to share.

Timberman

Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 11:57:16 AM
Title: Re: snippets of Manchester Regiment articles
Post by: mack on August 03, 2009, 12:43:04 PM
________________________________________

thats a great picture neil.

looks like mick hadnt lost his sense of humour

mack ;D
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:09:58 PM
This snippet is thanks to George, one of the Mods.

Click on the picture to make it bigger.
Thanks for allowing us to share.

If you save it to your computer  and zoom in on the picture you can read the writing better.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:11:51 PM
This snippet is thanks to George, one of the Mods.

Click on the picture to make it bigger.
Thanks for allowing us to share.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:13:44 PM
This snippet is thanks to George, one of the Mods.

Click on the picture to make it bigger.
Thanks for allowing us to share.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:14:40 PM
Title: Re: snippets of Manchester Regiment articles
Post by: george.theshed197 on August 04, 2009, 01:37:36 AM
________________________________________
Morning all,

The snippets have come out great, many thanks Neil; hoping that everyone enjoys them.
Yes indeed Mack, Mick never did lose his sense of humour and would have us all in stitches whenever we gathered at Ardwick or elsewhere for his birthday parties with his yarns and memories. He was a great character, may he rest in peace.

George.
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:16:59 PM
Captain Maurice Baldwin Bolton


Newspaper
Description:
Captain Maurice Baldwin Bolton, M.C. 5th attached 4th Battalion East Lancashire Regiment, who was reported missing on March 21st last, is now known to have died of wounds in a German hospital at Le Cateau, on March 26th. An advertisement in “The Blackburn Times” was the means of the family receiving official news of his death. He was the third son of Mr. and Mrs. Henry Hargreaves Bolton, of Heightside, Newchurch in Rossendale, Lancashire, and was in his 27th year. Captain Bolton was educated at Shrewsbury School and Pembroke College, Cambridge, where he graduated in History in 1915. At the outbreak of the war he joined the Cambridge O.T.C., and was gazetted to the 11th Battalion Manchester Regiment on August 22nd, 1914. He was promoted Captain in May 1915. In July, 1915, he was transferred to the East Lancashire Regiment, and went out to France in February 1917, being attached to the 1/4th Battalion East Lancashire Regiment (Blackburn Territorials). On November 22nd in the same year he was awarded the Military Cross for “Gallant conduct in the field” near Nieuport. In February this year he was transferred to the 4th Battalion East Lancashire Regiment, 66th Division. Captain Bolton was well known in the Blackburn district. His two elder brothers, Captain H. H. Bolton and Lieut. J. Bolton, of the 1/5th Battalion East Lancashire Regiment, were killed in Gallipoli. His younger brother, Captain G.G.H. Bolton, M.C., served four years with the same battalion. Reported by: Blackburn Times, 4th January, 1919.


http://www.cottontown.org/Pages/home.aspx

You may freely reproduce this content provided you do not do so in the course of a business and state clearly that the content was provided by for use in the Cotton Town digitization project.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:19:36 PM
Captain R. Bentham


Newspaper
 Captain R. Bentham, of the R.F.C., son of Mr. Robert Bentham, of Nethertown, Whalley, and formerly of Smallshaw-hey-Farm, Great Harwood, was buried at Newchurch-in-Pendle, on Monday. The deceased officer, as a boy, attended St. John’s C.E. Day School, Great Harwood, and whilst there he gained a Lancashire County Council scholarship, and proceeded to the Accrington Municipal Secondary School. Here he was a most successful student, winning a County Senior Exhibition, passing the Oxford Local Examination with distinctions in the honours division. He also won the “Bridge” Scholarship, and proceeded to the Manchester University to study for degrees in engineering. He passed the Matriculation examination of the Victoria University, with honours, and would have completed his studies for the B.S.c. degree this year. Whilst there he joined the O.T.C., and in September, 1914, passed the examination for officers, and was gazetted Second Lieutenant, being promoted First Lieutenant in a short time, He was in the Manchester Regiment, and whilst in training at Southport had the misfortune to break a leg in motor cycle accident. This prevented him proceeding to the Front with his regiment. On recovery he entered into training again, and whilst at Colchester he was promoted Captain. A short time ago he transferred to the R.F. Corps, and was in training at a flying school in Wiltshire. Whilst flying “solo” on November 8th he met with a fatal accident, being enveloped in a dark cloud, and having engine trouble, was dashed to the ground and instantly killed. The deceased officer was only 21 years of age. He was most highly esteemed as a personal friend, and had the highest commendations as a smart officer of his regiment. A brilliant and most promising career has thus been suddenly been cut short. The funeral was attended by brother officers of the Manchester Regiment, and the Royal Flying Corps, and many civilian friends, in addition to numerous relatives. The service at the house was conducted by the Rev. R. Newman, Vicar of Whalley, and the Vicar of Newchurch-in-Pendle performed the last sad rites. There were many tokens of affectionate regard and esteem and appreciations of the many splendid characteristics of the deceased officer. Reported by: unknown newspaper, 18th November, 1916.

http://www.cottontown.org/Pages/home.aspx

You may freely reproduce this content provided you do not do so in the course of a business and state clearly that the content was provided by for use in the Cotton Town digitization project.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:27:53 PM
Title: Re: snippets of Manchester Regiment articles
Post by: timberman on August 20, 2009, 01:32:29 PM
________________________________________
Corporal Harry Banks


Newspaper
 
Corporal Harry Banks, Manchester Regiment, Railway View, Clitheroe, has been killed whilst sleeping in a dugout in France. He was only 20, and prior to joining he worked in the Clitheroe Branch of the Maypole Company. He was expected home daily, having been recommended for a commission. Reported by: Blackburn Weekly Telegraph, 20th April, 1918.

http://www.cottontown.org/page.cfm?pageid=257&language=eng

You may freely reproduce this content provided you do not do so in the course of a business and state clearly that the content was provided by for use in the Cotton Town digitization project.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:29:09 PM

PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)



Lance-Corporal James Aspin


Newspaper

 Lance-Corporal James Aspin, Manchester Regiment, was killed in action in France on August 31st. He was 20 years of age, and the son of Mr. and Mrs. J. Aspin, of School Lane, Guide. In civil life he was employed at Scotia Brook Paper Mill, Lower Darwen. He attended St. James’s, Guide, where he was an active worker in the Sunday school and held the position of hon. treasurer of the C.M.S. He enlisted on December 6th, 1916, and was drafted to France in March, 1917. He was wounded at Messines Ridge the following September, and only returned to France on March 20th of the present year. A lieutenant, writing to the mother, says: “I deeply regret to have to write to tell you that your son, Lance-Cpl. James Aspin, made the supreme sacrifice for his country on the 31st of August, 1918. I know it will be some small comfort and consolation to you to know that your son died bravely facing the enemy and doing his duty in a way that I cannot speak of too highly. As his company commander, I have a very high opinion of your lad, who always worked hard, was cheerful in the most adverse condition, and thoroughly respected by all his comrades and his officers. I deeply sympathise with you in your sad loss. I was myself with him when he died, and he was buried by his comrades on the battlefield in a little grave on a ridge covered with grass, from which the storm and stress of battle has passed, never, I hope, to return.” (Photo. by Burton and Garland, Ltd., Blackburn). Reported by: Blackburn Times, 14th September, 1918.


http://www.cottontown.org/page.cfm?pageid=257&language=eng

You may freely reproduce this content provided you do not do so in the course of a business and state clearly that the content was provided by for use in the Cotton Town digitization project.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:33:33 PM
Private Ben Astley

Newspaper
 
A Gallant Messenger: Military Medal for Blackburn Man Private Ben Astley, Manchester Regiment, has been awarded the Military Medal. In a letter home he states that he has received the distinction for gallantry in delivering messages during a heavy German bombardment. Enlisting in July, 1915, at the early age of 17, he was drafted to France in August the following year. Before the war, Private Ashley resided with his father at 43, Highfield Road. He was connected with Christ Church, where his name is on the Roll of Honour. As a lad he attended Christ Church School, being a member of the football team. Reported by: Blackburn Times, 11th August, 1917.


http://www.cottontown.org/page.cfm?pageid=257&language=eng

You may freely reproduce this content provided you do not do so in the course of a business and state clearly that the content was provided by for use in the Cotton Town digitization project.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:34:13 PM
Private E. Ashley

Newspaper

D.C.M. for a Blackburn teacher. Private E. Ashley, who serves in the Manchester Regiment and has been awarded the D.C.M., is a son of Mr. and Mrs. Ashley, residing at 417, Bolton Road. Prior to enlisting he was a member of the teaching profession. Private Ashley has four brothers serving, one of whom, Second-Lieutenant J. Ashley, has gained the Military Medal, as reported elsewhere. Reported by: Blackburn Weekly Telegraph, 8th June, 1918. Commemorated at: St. Bartholomew’s Church.


http://www.cottontown.org/page.cfm?pageid=257&language=eng

You may freely reproduce this content provided you do not do so in the course of a business and state clearly that the content was provided by for use in the Cotton Town digitization project.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:35:02 PM
Private Frank Barnett

Newspaper
Private F. Barnett, of the Manchester Regiment, died in hospital at Boulogne, on the 28th ult., from wounds received in action. The deceased was a son of Mr. H. Barnett, of “Lyndene,” Burlington Street, who is in business as a wholesale fruit salesman, Market Place. Prior to enlisting the deceased was in business with his father, who received the official news of his son’s death on Wednesday. The deceased was 22 years of age. He joined the East Lancashires on the 28th April, 1916, and in August was drafted to France. The following month he was transferred to the Manchester Regiment. Reported by: Blackburn Times, 3rd February, 1917. Commemorated on: St. Peter’s. Verified by his stepmother, 24th June, 1929.


http://www.cottontown.org/page.cfm?pageid=257&language=eng

You may freely reproduce this content provided you do not do so in the course of a business and state clearly that the content was provided by for use in the Cotton Town digitization project.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:35:44 PM
Private James Bayley

Newspaper 

Private James Bayley (23), of the Manchester Regiment, has been killed in action in France. Prior to enlisting he was employed by Messrs. Chew’s, Mincing Lane, Blackburn. He attended Paradise United Methodist Church, and his name is on the roll of honour there. His mother resides at 81, Balaclava Street, Blackburn. He has a brother serving in India. Reported by: Blackburn Weekly Telegraph, 4 May, 1918.


http://www.cottontown.org/page.cfm?pageid=257&language=eng

You may freely reproduce this content provided you do not do so in the course of a business and state clearly that the content was provided by for use in the Cotton Town digitization project.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:38:17 PM
James Pitts VC

"On the 6th of January 1900 sixteen of the Manchester Regiment, without any officers to guide or direct them, held a remote position at Caesar's Camp from three o'clock in the morning till nightfall.  When the Devonshires reinforced the fighting line at that point and the enemy were repulsed, it was found that fourteen of these brave men were lying dead, another was wounded, and only one remained unscathed."
Thus did Sir George White, leader of the British forces at Ladysmith, describe the action which saw Private James Pitts become Blackburn's first winner of the Victoria Cross. The action took place during the Boer War on craggy heights in Natal's mountain wilderness.
 
James Pitts was born in Barton Street on February 26th 1877, the eldest of 16 children. His father, Patrick, was an umbrella hawker.  Both his parents were of Irish origin.  James attended St Ann's and then St Alban's schools.  He left at age 13 and worked in the mill until he was 18 when he enlisted with the 1st Manchester Regiment at Ashton Barracks. In November 1897 he sailed for Gibraltar.  Two years later he was on his way to the Cape, Pietermaritzburg first and then Ladysmith.
At the outbreak of the war the Boers had quickly surrounded Ladysmith.  A British counter-attack failed and Ladysmith was besieged for 118 days.  Knowing British relief was on its way, the Boers attacked on the night of January 5th 1900. The British line south of Ladysmith ran along a ridge known as the Platrand,whose features had been named Wagon Point, Wagon Ridge and Caesar's Camp  - after features near Aldershot, well known to the British troops. The Boers stormed Caesar's Camp, and it was here that James Pitts and his comrades held out without food or water for fifteen hours, under heavy fire all the time.
 
It wasn't until July that year that news of Private Pitts' VC reached Blackburn.  Pitts received the medal the following year on June 6th from Lord Kitchener.  In 1904 Pitts returned to Blackburn to an enthusiatic welcome and a presentation of £50 from the Mayor. He started work as a labourer at Bank Top foundry, but found regular work hard to come by. In 1914 he re-enlisted in Kitchener's army, joining his old regiment.
After the war Pitts got a job with the Highways Dept with Blackburn Corporation and remained there for 34 years.  He died on February 18th 1955.  He was buried in Blackburn Cemetery with full military honours, a three volley salute, and a bugler who sounded the Last Post and Reveille.


http://www.cottontown.org/page.cfm?pageid=257&language=eng

You may freely reproduce this content provided you do not do so in the course of a business and state clearly that the content was provided by for use in the Cotton Town digitization project.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:39:41 PM
BERLIN OFFICIAL REPORT

Evening Post, Volume LXXXVIII, Issue 154, 28 December 1914, Page 7

BERLIN OFFICIAL REPORT
 
REGARDING A RECENT BATTLE MANCHESTER REGIMENT'S EXPLOIT. (Received December 28, ID a.m.) LONDON, 27th December." A wireless message from Berlin officially states : "It is now possible to judge the success of the battle against the British and the Indians at Festnbert and Bethune. Nineteen officers, • 819 men, fourteen, machine-guns, two French mortars and other material were captured. "The British left three thousand dead on the field 1 and asked for an armistice to bury the deadl. The German losses, were comparatively small." The above message apparently refers to the Manchester Regiment's exploit cabled on the 24th.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:40:47 PM
( It in red the bit about the Manchester's)

General Sir Charles Harington

Inspiring leader during the Dunkirk retreat and in Normandy who later became C-in-C Middle East
January 30, 1910 - February 13, 2007
 
Tall, handsome and elegant in uniform, Charles Harington proved himself a fine trainer of men and a courageous leader — he had won the DSO and the MC during the Second World War. He was friendly and approachable, with a mind well tuned to the problems he faced.
His last command in the Middle East was undeniably difficult, with conflicting signals of intent from tribal and nationalist groupings all over the region. Appointed Commander-in-Chief of the tri-service Middle East Command in Aden in mid1963, he had responsibility for security of British installations and business interests from the Arabian Gulf to East Africa.
The immediate prospects were not discouraging, however, with plans for independence of the residual colonial territories and treaty states under discussion. Only the Voice of Cairo broadcasting President Nasser’s pan-Arab propaganda disturbed the tranquillity of the view from Aden’s Steamer Point — but the first trouble came from further south.

In January 1964 mutinies in battalions of the former King’s African Rifles in Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda led to requests for support from the recently independent governments of those states. Harington responded quickly with support from all three services. Order was restored and African officers replaced the nucleus of British officers who had remained.
Harington was next faced by the rebellion of the Haushabi and Radfan tribes of the Western Aden Protectorate, on which there was poor intelligence about the insurgents’ motives. The revolt was contained, but deployment of British troops into the tribal areas fostered the establishment of the Front for the Liberation of South Yemen, later to establish a brief alliance of convenience with the Marxist orientated National Liberation Front, which concentrated its own campaign of violence in Aden.
Violence flared there as that in the Radfan died down. In September 1965 the Speaker of the embryo National Council, Sir Arthur Charles, was murdered outside his house in Crater and, when the President of the Council, Abdull al-Qawi Mecca-wi, refused to condemn the act, direct British rule was reimposed.
Counterinsurgency operations which followed could do little more than execute a policy of “restoration of law and order”. This became a lost cause as the Aden Police were infiltrated and local Special Branch officers killed.
Harington’s insistence that sentries should wear starched khaki drill reflected a hope that an atmosphere of normality might be maintained. But this was dashed with the decision by the first Harold Wilson Government to abandon Aden and the Protectorates by 1968, whether or not a successor administration could be established. By that time Harington had been appointed Deputy Chief of the General Staff, and it was for a successor to plan an exit.
Charles Henry Pepys Harington was the son of Lieutenant-Colonel H. H. Harington and a relation of General Sir Charles “Tim” Harington, who was the Allied C-in-C in Constantino-ple at the time of the 1922 Chanak incident. He was educated at Malvern and RMC Sandhurst, from where he was commissioned into The (22nd) Cheshire Regiment in 1930.
After disbandment of the Machine Gun Corps in 1920, such infantry regiments as the Cheshires, provided the Army’s medium machinegun battalions, one to each infantry division. It was in this role that Harington went to France with the 1st Infantry Division to France in 1939.
 
During the withdrawal from the River Dyle in Belgium, at the outset of the German offensives of May 1940, his company supported the division’s rear-guard provided by the 13th/18th Royal Hussars and 21st Antitank Regiment RA. He was awarded the Military Cross for his part in the withdrawal to Dunkirk, in the words of the citation, “inflicting many casualties on the enemy and, due to skilful handling of his guns, completed the withdrawal with loss of only one section”.

In March 1944, as the Allied armies in Britain prepared for the Normandy invasion, he was appointed to command the 1st Battalion Manchester Regiment. Circumstances had led to the units being untrained and on the point of being catego-rised unfit to take part in the invasion.
Harington threw himself into training the men and raising their confidence and morale to a pitch that the 1st Manchesters acquitted themselves with great distinction. Harington was awarded the DSO for leadership and gallantry during the first six weeks of the Normandy fighting.
After the end of the war in Europe, he was an instructor at the Staff College, Camberley, for two years before being appointed to the staff of the British Military Mission in Greece during the bitter civil war between government forces and communist rebels. He later commanded the 1st Battalion Parachute Regiment, and was military assistant to two Chiefs of the Imperial General Staff in succession, before joining the planning staff at Nato Supreme Headquarters in Europe.
Advancement followed quickly. He commanded 49th Infantry Brigade in Kenya during the Mau Mau emergency, the School of Infantry at Warmin-ster, the 3rd Division in the United Kingdom Strategic Reserve and the Staff College, Camberley.
After these successes the period as C-in-C Middle East Command seemed, inevitably, a somewhat thorny row to have to hoe. Harington received little decisive political direction after reimposition of direct rule in Aden, and could only stand firm and try to maintain an air of calm. In the upshot nothing would probably have made any difference to the final outcome. Harington was appointed Deputy Chief of the General Staff in 1966.
His last appointment, in 1968, was Chief of Personnel and Logistics in the Ministry of Defence. In this he argued successfully for introduction of a proper military salary for serv-icemen, a concept that has stood the test of time.
He was Colonel of The Cheshire Regiment, 1962-68; president of the Combined Cadet Force Association, 1971-80; chairman of the Governors of the Star and Garter Home, 1972-80; and president of the Milocarian (Tri-Service) Athletic Club, 1966-99.
Harington married Victoire Marion Williams-Freeman in 1942. She died in 2000, and he is survived by a son and two daughters.

General Sir Charles Harington, GCB, CBE, DSO, MC, Chief of Personnel and Logistics, MoD, 1968-71, was born on January 30, 1910. He died on February 13, 2007, aged 97

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:56:16 PM
Title: Re: snippets of Manchester Regiment articles
Post by: timberman on September 06, 2009, 10:18:50 AM
________________________________________
This is a picture from George (one of the Mods)

Of a poppy from Manchester Hill.

Thank-you for sharing

Timberman :)
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:57:38 PM
4th Volunteer Battalion Manchester Regiment.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 12:58:12 PM
5th (Ardwick) Volunteer Battalion Manchester Regiment.


Timberman :)
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 01:10:09 PM
Colonial Times
Friday 12 May 1848

HER MAJESTY'S 96th REGIMENT.
Presentation of Medal to Serjeant-Major
William Norris.
On Monday, the 8th instant, the Regiment was formed in the Barrack-square, in Review order, to witness the presentation of a Medal to Serjeant-Major William N' rris, for meri- torious conduct since he has been in Her Mnjesty's Service.
Lieutenant - Colonel Cumberland, having formed the Regiment into three sides of it square, directed the Field Officers to take post un his right and left, facing the colours, upon which he called Serjeant-Major Norris to the front. The Sorjeanc-Major, supported between the colours by the two senior Colour-Serjeants, advanced to the centre of the square, when the Commanding Officer spoke us follows :
" Serjeant-Major William Norris,-I am deputed by His Grace the Oommander-in Chief, Field Marshal the Duke of Wellington, to present to you, on the public parade, this
Medal for meritorious services.
" Of the nature of those services, I can well testify. At Bermuda-at Halifax, Nova Scotia -at St. John's, Newfoundland-at Glasgow in Scotland-at Enniskillen and Dublin, in Ire- land-at Gosport, Bolton, Manchester, and Chatham, in England-on the voyage to these Colonies, and subsequent service for the lust six years as Serjeant-Major, your conduct and services have invariably been such as to call for ihj highest terms of approbation.
" I have the greatest pleasure to present to you this Medal, and am sure it will be to you, Serjeant-Major Norris, a subject of the greatest satisfaction as long as you live, to wear on your breast such a mark of Her Majesty's approval : it is an honour to myself, to the Officers, and to the whole Regiment, to receive such a pi oof of Her Majesty's esteem in the person of the Serjeant-Major of the corps."
The warrant for the presentation, signed by the Right Honorable the Military Secretary, Lieutenant-General Lord Fitzroy Somerset, G.C.B., was then read by the Adjutant, at the conclusion of which the Lieutenant-Colonel, turning to Major Oheape, requested him to do him the honor to assist bim in presenting the Medal which he held in his hand, saying he was sure he would be proud to do so to his old Pay-Serjeant, Serjeant-Major William Norris.
Major Cheape, in reply, requested permission to say a few words to the corps, and stepping to the front, said :
" He was proud of having the opportunity of bearing testimony to the merits and worth of the Serjeant-Major. He had been his Pay Serjeant for a number of years; he always placed the utmost confidence in him ; and that at all times the Serjeant-Major performed his
duties to his entire satisfactiun."
i Lieutenant-Colonel Cumberland and Major
Cheape then advanced to the Serjeant-Major, the Band playing the Regimental March, and fixed the Medal on his left breast, wishing him many happy years to wear it. The Colonel and Major then returned to their original places, when the Serjeant-Major stepped to the front, and returned thanks in the following terms :
" Sir, I return my most sincere thanks for my Sovereign's most gracious bounty, and trust that I may ever retain it with honour. I also return my most sincere thanks for your kind- ness, and the kindness of Major Cheape, for your high opinion of my past services, and shall ever remember it with gratitude."
The Regiment then salutedits colours, formed column of march, and proceeded to the Govern- ment Domain for Field Exercise.
In the evening after the interesting ceremo- nies of the day, the Non-Commissioned Officers of the Regiment met the Serjeant-Major in the Mess room, to congratulate him on the honour which had that day been conferred upon him.
After the health of Her Majesty the Queen, Prince Albert, the Royal Family, the Com mander-in-Chief, Lieutenant-Colonel Cumber- land and the Officers of the Regiment, and other loyal and appropriate toasts had been drank, the health of the Serjeant-Major followed. All these were responded to with the most hearty enthusiasm. The Serjeant-Major returned thanks in appropriate terms, and under feelings of emotion, to the Non-Commissioned Officers who had shown their appreciation of the honour which had that day been paid to him by his su- periors iu accordance with directions from Her Most Gracious Majesty Queen Victoria.
In addition to the presentation of the Silver Medal, Her Majesty has been graciously pleosed to grant Serjeant-Major Non is an annuity of £-20, commencing from the 1st April 1847, as a reward for his meritorious services.

Timberman


Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 01:24:47 PM
Title: Re: snippets of Manchester Regiment articles
Post by: timberman on September 25, 2009, 02:26:04 PM
________________________________________
Colonial Times

Tuesday 16 June 1840

English news.

[From the Commercial Journal.]
By the Thomas Lawrie, from Liverpool, we have received British news, at Sydney, to the 7th January. The most engrossing topic was the approaching nuptials of the Queen, which, it was expected, would be celebrated on the 16th February; we may, therefore, shortly look for the particulars of that joyous day.
| Great distress continued to prevail among
the working classes, and numerous meetings had been held, in the North of England, for the purpose of relieving the sufferings of the poor, who, although willing to work, could
not obtain employment j and, but for the charity of their fellow-creatures, must, therefore, starve.
The uniform Penny Postage was to com menceon the 10th January. The ouly difference between the new plan, and the one previously in existence is, that the penny must be paid when the letter is put into the Post-office, or the party to whom it is sent will be charged twopence, if not exceeding half an ounce, and so on in proportion.
The new king of Denmark has publicly de- clared himself friendly to the Freedom of the
Press.
The 96th regiment was under orders at Manchester, to prepare for embarkation to proceed to this Colony.
The average sum daily spent on ardent spirits, in Ireland, is nearly £20,000-(seven millions per annum-upwards of £800 an hour-) Surely Ireland must be a rich country to stand this-or, it is no wonder that its people
are poor.
The sons of the Emerald Isle were arranging to entertain the great Reformer, O'Connell, at j a public dinner, before his departure to England for the approaching Sessions, during which the interests of that unhappy country are expected to be more than ordinarily assailed.
Sperm oil is again higher; £110 has been paid for some parcels of first quality. The wool market was steady, but no appearance of an advance on the present prices.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 01:26:33 PM
The Canberra Times
Friday 19 August 1938 

PALESTINE" -
JERUSALEM, Wednesday.
A British officer, Second¡ Lieut." R. F. 'Griffiths, of the Manchester, Regiment, was killed, when a land mine exploded hinder a lorry near Acre.

Two, armed men robbed a postal employee of a mail bag at Nablus.
It contained, among other valuables, £2,000 in notes consigned from Barclays  Bank at Nablue to Barclays
Batik at Jerusalem.
Terrorists attacked a labour camp at Anthlit' and abducted the Jewish police, inspector, his wife and three children, and his mother-in-law.
During- the attack a British inspector and an Arab warder were
wounded.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: charlie on January 21, 2018, 03:36:35 PM
George,
Thanks for sharing your „snippets“, I particularly liked the poppy from Manchester Hill.

Charlie
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 04:02:01 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)




Title: Re: snippets of Manchester Regiment articles
Post by: timberman on September 26, 2009, 09:57:49 AM
________________________________________
The following is reproduced here with the permission of Martin Edwards and remains the

copyright of Roll of Honour. com 2002-2009

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/index.html

Captain Edward Neville Ashe MC

Remembered on the Wadham House School War Memorial Hale Cheshire.

Click on the picture to make it larger.

Thank-you

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 04:07:08 PM
Australia's Redcoat Settlers

Re produced here with permission of the copyright holders
Barrie Chapman U.G-B.A Australian History and  Margaret Chapman U.G-B.A Australian History

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~garter1/index.htm

   
New Zealand Medal Rolls for The 96th Regiment of Foot

The following article was originally one of a set of memoranda available only on paper in The National Archives' reading rooms. It may have been compiled many years ago and could be out of date. It was designed to act as a signpost to records of interest on a particular historical subject.

 The New Zealand Medal was instituted in 1869. While it is British, the medal can be described as New Zealand's first indigenous campaign medal. It was awarded for service in the New Zealand Wars of 1845-47 and 1860-66.  The Medal was awarded to members of the British Army, Royal Navy, Royal Marines, and to colonial volunteers.

This memorandum was originally written on February 1992
The following copies of lists of New Zealand Medal Rolls, 96th Regiments, were presented to The National Archives by Captain W A Morgan, late of the Kensingtons, in December 1963.
 The Manchester Regiment 96th Regiment
A copy of the roll for this Regiment is in America and known as the COUTTS roll - the following Note regarding the 96th Regiment is on the roll.
It is stated that the Headquarters of the Regiment was stationed at Launceston, Tasmania in 1843 and that in March of that year a detachment under Lieut. Col. Hulme proceeded to Auckland, New Zealand. In 1845 this detachment was subsequently engaged with the natives at Koroanika in the Bay of Islands on March 11th where forty men under Lieut. Barclay were engaged with the whole of the native forces and compelled to re-embark and sail to Auckland, having had five killed and three wounded. On the 27th April the Company again proceeded to the Bay of Islands under Lieut. Col. Hulme together with reinforcements from Sydney which had arrived to support the small force of a single Company of the 96th Regiment, who had been exposed for the last 12 months to the attacks of the whole body of natives. On 8th May they were engaged at Keke's Pa and had 6 killed and 9 wounded, and soon after at the second assault of the same place when the detachment lost 5 killed and 3 wounded. August 1846 Headquarters proceeded to Hobart's Town, Tasmania, to re-organise the Corps which had been so much detached since arrival in Australia.
Note : If the Soldiers name is Blue  click for they have their own page
Roll of claimants for the New Zealand medal - kindly furnished by Lieut. G L Usher, the Manchester Regiment.
 
Captain  William Archibald Eyton.
Ensign Charles Octavious Eardley Wilmot.
Privates
•   1791 Henry Barnes , 544. William Blyth , . 671 Robert Baalam  , . 1545 Henry Brighton - Beighton at Royal Hospital Chelsea  , .1089 John Blake  , .
•   1740 George Dobie
•   541 John Foster
•   426 James Grace
•   1741 James Gill
•   1621 George Hudson
•   1744 Edward Kellington
•   805 Joseph Myers  , . 1254 John Moy  , 
•   1520 John Nuttall - Coutts list No. 1502
•   805 W Parkes - Coutts list Parker, William
•   1479William Quantrill - Coutts list No. 1474
•   1629 William Short , .    1028 W Scarrow - Scarron in Coutts list , . 137 Richard Sunter - Smith in Coutts list 1445 John Stewart , .  751 William Skipper , .  783 Francis Squire , . 
•   170 Thomas Walton - without date sold Sotheby's 20/2/79

© Copyright B & M Chapman (QLD) Australia

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 04:09:56 PM
Australia's Redcoat Settlers

Re produced here with permission of the copyright holders
Barrie Chapman U.G-B.A Australian History and  Margaret Chapman U.G-B.A Australian History

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~garter1/index.htm


The 96th regiment was broken into 26 separate detachments in 1839. These detachments began to arrive
in Australia during 1839, with the last detachment arriving in 1841. The headquarters for the Regiment was one of the last detachments to arrive in 1841.

© Copyright B & M Chapman (QLD) Australia

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 04:16:19 PM
Title: Re: snippets of Manchester Regiment articles
Post by: Robert Bonner on October 31, 2009, 04:51:08 AM
________________________________________

As from today the Victoria Cross, DSO, MC and other medals awarded to George Henderson are on permanent display in the medal room of the Museum of The Manchester Regiment.  As with the other five VCs on display all are the original medals.

Robert

Please note

This post was done in 2009 and as of today 21st Jan 2018 the Museum is still closed
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 04:22:47 PM
George Stuart Henderson VC, DSO & Bar, MC (5 December 1893 – 24 July 1920)
was a British Army officer and a Scottish recipient of the Victoria Cross, the highest award for gallantry in the face of the enemy that can be awarded to British and Commonwealth forces.


Early life

Henderson was born in East Gordon, Berwickshire, on 5 December 1893 to Robert and Mary Henderson.

Details

Henderson was 26 years old, and a captain in the 2nd Battalion, The Manchester Regiment during the 1920 Iraqi Revolt, then called Mesopotamia, when the following deed took place on 24 July 1920 near Hillah, Mesopotamia for which he was awarded the VC.
The late Captain George Stuart Henderson, D.S.O., M.C:, 2nd Bn., Manchester Regt. For most conspicuous bravery and self sacrifice.
On the evening of the 24th July, 1920, when about fifteen miles from Hillah (Mesopotamia), the Company under his command was ordered to retire. After proceeding about 500 yards a large party of Arabs suddenly opened fire from the flank, causing the Company to split up and waver. Regardless of all danger, Capt. Henderson at once reorganised the Company, led them gallantly to the attack and drove off the enemy. On two further occasions this officer led his men to charge the Arabs with the bayonet and forced them to retire. At one time, wnen the situation was extremely critical and tihe troops and transport were getting out of hand, Capt. Henderson, by sheer pluck and coolness,, steadied his command prevented the Company from being cut up and saved the situation. During the second charge he fell wounded, but refused to leave his command, and just as the Company reached the trench they were making for he was again wounded. Realising that he could do no more, he asked one of his N.C.O.'s to hold him up on the embankment, saying, "I'm, done now, don't let them beat you." He died fighting.

He is commemorated on Jedburgh War Memorial and the Basra Memorial.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 04:24:13 PM
"Extracts" from Army Order 361 of 16th October, 1919 "1914 Star"
 Grant of Clasp

"His Majesty the King has been graciously pleased to approve of the issue of a clasp
to officers, warrant officers, non-commissioned officers and men who have been awarded the
"1914" Star and who actually served under the fire of the enemy in France and Belgium
between the 5th August, 1914, and midnight 22/23rd November, 1914.

Officers and soldiers who were actually present on duty within the range of the enemy's mobile
artillery and were on the strength of, or attached to the units and formations set forth in
Appendix 'A' between the above mentioned dates, will be eligible for the award."


Manchester Regiment, 1st and 2nd Battalions

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 04:24:53 PM
RIFLE RANGES (MANCHESTER VOLUNTEERS).

HC Deb 20 April 1896 vol 39 cc1268-9 1268

SIR JAMES FERGUSSON
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he can state what the reason is for the delay in presenting the Provisional Order for the ranges of the Manchester Volunteers?
 
MR. BRODRICK
The delay in connection with the Provisional Order for the ranges for the Manchester Volunteers is due to the fact that the expenditure proposed, includes the erection of butts and equipping of the range, which can only be authorised by the Military Lands Bill now before Parliament. As this Bill is not opposed, and as the shooting of these corps and others is seriously impeded pending the passage of the Bill, I trust I shall be allowed to take the Second Reading after Twelve o'clock To-night.


© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 04:27:24 PM
MSUOTC

In 1851 John Owens, a prominent Manchester textile merchant, founded Owens College which became part of the Victoria University of Manchester in 1880.

In 1898, a Volunteer Rifle Company was raised from the under-graduates here. First called Owens College Company, it was commanded by Captain Williarn Thorburn and was part of the 2nd Volunteer Battalion of the Manchester Regiment- Only one year later, the company raised volunteers for the South African War.

After the Boer war, the Company was re-named the Manchester University Company, and later N Company of the 2nd Volunteer Battalion of the Manchester Regiment. Under the Haidane Reforms of 1908, N Company was renamed The Manchester University Officers' Training Corps, with a strength of 90 cadets.

Three years later, unit strength was raised to 270, in two infantry companies and a wireless section. Cadets enrolled for two years and paid a subscription of five shillings for the honour. Rifle training was conducted at Stalybridge and Diggle, guided by the 6th Volunteer Battalion of the Manchester Regiment, Drill took place in Fallowfield.

At the outbreak of war in August 1914, the unit, commanded by Major Sir Thomas Holland, was at camp on Salisbury Plain - 95% of those at Camp immediately volunteered for service, and 240 had been granted commissions by October. By the end of hostilities, 96 former members of the unit had earned the Military Cross and four admitted to the Distinguished Service Order.

These men had served in a wide variety of units, from the traditional County Regiments of Manchester, Liverpool and Lancashire to the fledgling Royal Flying Corps and the Tank Corps. In June 1921 a memorial to the unit's dead was unveiled in the drill hall and was transferred later, along with memorials to the South African casualties, to the new University Barracks.

In the interwar years, the unit was reduced to a single infantry company. Training was conducted on Saturday mornings with an Annual Camp conducted in July alongside contingents from Sheffield, Liverpool and Nottingham. The unit had no integral transport and moved by train or charabanc, marching the last miles to the training camp. Field training was conducted with Lee Enfield rifles and Lewis machine-guns - though in the hard-up '20's, the Lewis guns were replaced by wooden models and football rattles when on field exercises-

Outbreak of war in 1939 led to the unit's expansion to approximately 850 and a temporary re-badging as the 61st City of Manchester Battalion, Home Guard. University courses were compressed into two years each of four terms; hence personnel turnover was rapid.

The unit's Headquarters at the McDougall Centre (the University Sports Centre, built in 1938), was in fact the only military installation in Manchester to be hit during the German attacks, when a bomb passed through the CO's office and the unit swimming pool without exploding.

After 1945, the unit adapted to changing times, at various points forming detachments of Royal Engineers, Royal Signals, Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, Intelligence and Womens' Royal Army Corps. During this period, the unit began Easter Camps, then usually held at Holcombe Moor.

In 1974 the unit began to recruit from the former Royal College of Advanced Technology, renamed the University of Salford in1967. This was reflected in the adoption of the current unit title, Manchester and Salford Universities Officers Training Corps.

© 2009 Crown Copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 21, 2018, 04:29:08 PM
Friday, December 5, 1890.
 
NO CREDIT TO THE ARMY.

   Two young men named John White and Edward Hamell were apprehended on Tuesday night by Police-constable Meakin on a charge of desertion from the 4th Battalion Manchester Regiment, at present in training at Ashton-under-Lyne. - The two prisoners enlisted on the 8th of November, and deserted thirteen days afterwards. They admitted that they had left the regiment, and said their uniforms were sold. - An order was made for their removal to Ashton-under-Lyne.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 05:46:22 PM
Taken from the Link4Life Website.

The Dardanelles Campaign & Hollingworth Lake Camp.

The four pictures are.
 
WW1 Lancs Fusiliers in Dardanelles, June 1915
 
Manchester Regiment at the Hollingworth Camp in 1914
 
Manchester's Camp at Hollingworth Lake in 1914
 
WW1 Hollingworth Lake Camp - cookhouse staff. August 1914

The Dardanelles Campaign.
Men from both the Manchester Regiment, many of them Territorial’s and the Lancashire Fusiliers fought in the Dardanelles – scene of the infamous Gallipoli landings.
The photograph of the Lancashire Fusiliers includes Lt. Eric Duckworth, son of Sir James Duckworth who owned a grocery chain in the Rochdale area. Eric Duckworth was killed on the 7th of August, 1915, aged19 years. He is seated on the far left in the photograph, facing the camera and reading a newspaper; his face is obscured by the shade of his helmet. The troops in this image are resting on the Isle of Imbros following a battle on the 4th June 1915. The photograph was taken in June or July 1915.
During the late summer of 1914 the Ealees Valley at Hollingworth Lake was the scene of military activities as the Manchester Regiment (mostly Territorials), known as the Manchester Pals, set up camp there. The valley became a sea of tents and many local people arrived in crowds to view the spectacle. Writing in “The Weighver’s Seaport,” in 1977, Austin Colligan, a local historian, reported that the soldiers often toured the locality giving away bread and tins of ‘bully beef’ to the local people. He also tells us that the soldiers’ wives and families arrived from Manchester to see them, often lodging in local houses for a couple of nights.
A postcard showing the ‘Cookhouse Staff at Hollingworth Lake Camp, 1914,’ was sent to W. Gilbody at 40 Lower Calderbrook, Littleborough, on August 27th 1914.  The message, from one of the soldiers at the camp, reads:
“Dear Cousin, I hear we are leaving here today, Friday. I am sorry I could not come up to see you as I have not been able to get out of camp. Will write when I get settled. Remaining your Cousin, Jack.”
So it is obvious that some of the soldiers from the Manchester regiment at the camp had relatives in the area. One of the soldiers in the photograph of the ‘cookhouse staff’ (made into a postcard, as was common at the time) is holding a flag for the ‘5th Manchester’s.’

Sadly, few of the ‘Manchester’s’ were to survive the terrible landings at Gallipoli, where they were mowed down by gunfire as they disembarked from their troopships. Austin Colligan tells us that many of their wives and families had made friends in Littleborough, in the few weeks that they had been visiting the camp at Ealees, and that they used to visit the camp site for many years afterwards.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 05:50:20 PM
Taken from the Link4Life Website.

BACK FROM CAPTIVITY

Private Frank Taylor, Lancashire Fusiliers,
Private S Garside,Manchester Regiment
and Private James Rigg, 3rd Battalion
Coldstream Guards relate their experiences as prisoners
of the Germans.

“Each morning we were paraded before a German officer and in response to his signal those who felt unable to work through ill-health took one step forward. The officer then approached those men and answered their appeal to be allowed to go into hospital by striking each man a heavy blow on the face, causing him to fall back and into the hands of his more healthy comrades”.

In these words Private Frank Taylor described one of the many cruel experiences he underwent while in the hands of the Germans from 25th March to 12th November 1918. Private Taylor was taken prisoner during the last German great advance, and was immediately set to carry the German wounded troops to Denain, some six kilometres inland. Here the British prisoners were separated and 340 of them sent on to work in the saw mills at Tannay. The laborious nature of the work and the scanty supply of food - boiled barley, black horse beans, and mangels - rapidly had their effect on the unfortunate party, 70 of whom died within a short time while a number of others having become insane were sent to an unknown asylum.
Determined to make an effort to improve the ration allowance the men refused to resume work after the dinner hour on a certain day unless their diet was changed. A German commandant was then summoned to deal with them, but despite his threats the men persisted in their refusal to commence work.

“The bell rang at half-past one o’clock to restart work. We never budged. The commandant repeated his warning, but as we still adhered to our protest he sent for the Germans employed in the works. They approached armed with thick pieces of wood and sticks and on a word from the commandant they belted us down like logs. Some of us were so weak that it was with difficulty that we could stand and many died from the effects of the blows, while others returned to the work to escape from further brutality.”
Describing the conditions under which the prisoners slept, Private Taylor said that what with bugs and fleas and one thing and another they were compelled to sleep in the open air if the weather was at all fine.
Gradually the Germans began to realise the seriousness of their captives’ condition, and transferred them from the saw mills to harvesting. This class of work was much lighter, the weather being in favour of the men. The food was similar to that served at the saw mills but it was supplemented by two pints of milk for each man daily.

From November 5th until November 12th, when the British prisoners ran away from their tormentors, the conditions varied very little. Whilst retreating the enemy used all forms of vehicles for transport purposes and when horses were not available the prisoners were made to draw the vehicles. For a number of days Private Taylor and 20 other British soldiers dragged a heavily laden cart filled with pillaged articles an average distance of about 18 kilometres per day.

Private S Garside describes himself as “one of the lucky ones”, for having the good fortune to be under the command of one of the humane German officers, he was better treated than were many of the British prisoners of war. He was employed on railway work, and with other men was put in a barn when British airmen were over the lines on bombing expeditions. Private Garside was, however, one of the victims of the typically Hun trick of having his postcards sent to a camp in the interior of Germany which he had never seen, and stamped with the postmark of that camp so as to give his friends in England the impression that he was there instead of, as was actually the case, just behind the German lines.
Private J Rigg still bears traces of the hardships and suffering he endured while a prisoner of war in the hands of the Germans. When he was captured in April he weighed 14 stones, but when he got away from the Germans after the signing of the armistice he had lost over three stones.

“The first five weeks ‘Jerry’ had us he put us in a place called Fort MacDonald — there were 2,777 of us in a room about big enough for 100 men. It was an underground fort with two little windows at one end for ventilation. There was an electric light on all the time, but the place got so hot you could not stand your clothes on, and we lived almost naked for the time we were there. They gave us hardly anything to drink and we were only allowed out of the place for about five minutes a day — just long enough to get our soup, made of potato peelings and water. The place was filthy and so verminous that you could not sleep. The first day we came out of the fort ‘Jerry’ walked us 37 kilometres and our fellows were so weak and exhausted that they dropped on the road like sheep.”

Private Rigg was employed, as so many of the British soldiers were, in digging trenches for the Germans, carrying ammunition and putting up barbed wire. The prisoners were frequently under the fire of the Allies’ guns, and many of Riggs comrades were wounded or killed in that way.

Their meagre bread ration of a loaf of bread per day between four men was supplemented by what vegetables they could steal from the fields and what the Germans called barley. This barley was similar to that given to cattle in England, and was boiled into a kind of soup. The Germans adopted a rough method of rousing the prisoners in the morning, going among them with thick sticks, iron bars, or the butt end of rifles to beat the laggards. Frequently they were marched 30 kilometres to and from their work. As many of the men were without shoes or socks their feet were lacerated and in a terrible condition.
Private Rigg confirms what other soldiers have said about the kindness of the Belgian people to the British soldiers who were taken prisoners. “We should have died from starvation if it had not been for what they gave us, and although the Germans stopped them whenever possible they treated us very well.”

Rochdale Observer 30th  November 1918

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 05:51:21 PM
This is a story that was printed in the Great War a multi volume history.
Although the Regiment name was changed I believe it was about a Soldier called Private John Chatterton HoIlinwood Oldham, of the  Manchester Regiment (called Cottonopolis Regiment in the story)

I may be wrong but a good read about bringing the wounded home.

PART ONE.

HOW THE WOUNDED WERE BROUGHT HOME

By Basil Clarke

EDITORIAL NOTE.-The magnitude attained by the British Army in France was such that the treatment of the casualties became a matter ,of passionately intimate concern to almost every house and cottage in the Empire. It is characteristic of men of our race to be as silent about their sufferings as about their deeds, and the result was that the endurance of the wounded and the devotion of those who tended them seemed likely to remain generally unknown. The Editors of THE GREAT WAR, recognising that the treatment of the wounded was an integral subject of their history, resolved to secure an authentic record of the work from one of their war correspondents, and thus Mr. Basil Clarke, provided with proper credentials and assisted by the cordial co-operation of the military authorities, went to an advanced trench on the Western Front, and, following the regimental stretcher-bearers to the first ease to which they were called, be accompanied a casualty through every stage of the journey from the battlefield to the quayside in England This chapter contains his story, the narrative method adopted giving it a valuable actuality. The Editors wish it to be understood that every incident is true and that the story is an essential part of the history of the war.
 
“STRETCHER-BEARERS!"

The call came faintly at first from, somewhere down the trench, far away to the right of us ; but other voices took if up and passed it along. Nearer and nearer it came, from voice to voice, some high, some low, till you could see the soldier that shouted it last - a lusty fellow whose ruddy face and green "tin hat" peeped above the rim of the next shell-hole. There, with face towards us and a yellow, muddy hand encircling his mouth for a megaphone, he passed on the words in a deep bass bray; for just as all men in a village community, will stop what they are doing to give a hand in putting out a fire, so will men in a trench help, as a point of honour, to pass on the word for the ambulance men. It is one of the unwritten laws.
The company stretcher-bearers were at tea at the moment in a trench dug-out near me. A corporal pulled aside the sheet of flapping, mud-stained flannel which served the double purpose of door and gas-stop to the dug-out, and shouted in the words "Bearers - right !” Tea was forgotten. One man alone lingered to lift a petrol-can of boiling water from a crackling fire of box-wood; and then he too rambled up the, steps of the dug-out. 'The first man up had seized one of the light stretchers of wooden poles and canvas that stood upright near the dug-out door. "Stretcher - bearers -right!" he shouted, and away to the right they went, six of them, splashing along the trench.
'Trench' is perhaps something ,of an overstatement. It had been a trench when the Germans made it-and a very good one, too. But only four days earlier it had been taken from them after weeks of consistent shelling, and now, what with rain and with shell damage, it was a long series of mud-holes joined together, sometimes by hummocks of earth, sometimes by short lengths of trench, indifferently clear. The part from which we started had been put to rights again or "consolidated," as the official communiqués express it.
The walls had been rebuilt and trued, a parapet had been superimposed upon the enemy's old parados; there were even duck-boards underfoot to walk upon - and duck- boards are the last word in trench comfort. But before the stretcher-bearers ,had, gone very, far-with me plodding slowly behind-the trench reverted once more to its old damaged state as when captured, and to get along it became as hard travelling as any I have known. In places you splashed through a foot of water, otter-hunting fashion; in other places you had to scale hummocks of slimy clay; in others you went through quicksands of viscous, treacle-like fluid that sucked the very boots from one's feet. Many a soldier has come out of one of those mud-pools minus boots, stockings, and puttees.
I myself, who had nightly a battle royal with my top boots to get them off, found them sucked off by that mud as easily as though they had been gripped in the finest bootjack ever invented. The trouble with these holes was to get past them and yet to retain one's foot-wear. But to stand still was to be lost, stuck fast, perhaps even to die, as more than one poor lad has done up on those bleak, muddy slopes of the Somme.
The hundred and fifty yards we went seemed to me one hundred and fifty miles. I arrived a very bad last-as the racing report's might express it - and only just in time to see the six stretcher-bearers putting the finishing touches to the first-aid dressing which they had been applying to one Private John Chatterton HoIlinwood Oldham, of the Cottonopolis Regiment. The corporal was talking as he bound up the wounded limb - quietly "strafing" the injured' one. "Why the divvle you fellows won't keep your field-dressin' in its right place fair beats me. You have a special pocket made in your tunic linin' for it ; you have a nice clean dressin' served out to you in a waterproof bag, and all that's asked of you is that you should keep it in that special pocket, and s'elp me if there's one of you as 'll keep it there ! Is yer 'ed comfy, mate? Take a pull outen my bottle an' a bit of a breather 'fore we starts to yank yer down to the aid post."

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 05:52:03 PM
Post by: timberman on November 15, 2009, 01:25:36 PM
________________________________________
PART TWO

Oldham used his interval of rest to tell us how a sniper had caught hint. "Copped me fair, 'e did," he said. "My own fault, too. Ah see'd the blighter earlier this morning, workin' out on 'is belly along the brow of the hill, and had a pop at 'im with my rifle. Missed 'is bloomin' 'ead by about a foot. Saw the spit of my bullet aside his left ear. E' 'opped it quick. But after that ah forgets all about 'im, never thinkin' as ‘e'd crawl out for another go at me. As Ah were crossin' that bit o' open ground about five minutes back 'e pops me one over, fair in the thigh. Ah reckon summut's bust from th' feel on it. Do you think as it's a Blighty' one, corp'ral?”
“Shouldn't be surprised," said the corporal, pretending to be cross. "Beats me why some o' you lads comes 'ere without your mothers. Didn't ye see the notice along that open patch, tellin' you to ''ware snipers'? Ah put it. up myself on that very place an hour after Gummy' Arrison were 'it in th' back on t' same bit o' land. Well, time to be oft. Lie easy, mate, an' we'll 'ave you down in a couple o' shakes. Ready, lads!"'
The bearers, who had been sitting on their haunches on the side of a low hummock of clay, slid down it on their heels. One of them had lit a cigarette during, the rest. He now took it from his. mouth, and without a word stuck it in the mouth of the patient, which opened for it as readily as that of a young chick for food.
“Thanks, matey," he said simply. "Ready? Lift !" Two men held the stretcher-handles. Two men walked at the sides with hands on the stretcher-bars, steadying it and 'taking the weight whenever one of the carriers stumbled - a frequent event. One man walked in front, picking out the best of the track - or, rather, the least difficult of the track. The other walked behind.
How those men ever got that stretcher and its heavy load over the places they did is to this day beyond me. With no further load than a gas-mask and a walking-stick, I had trouble enough myself. At times we came to places where all six men had to give a hand. The poor lad on the stretcher was bemoaning the trouble he was giving. "Can't Ah get out an' walk a bit? " he asked plaintively. "One 0' you gimme a hand an' Ah'll hobble a bit!"
"You howd yer 'ush, my lad! " was all the corporal answered him; and he held it. For his leg was paining badly. I could see him opening and shutting his eyes every now and again with pain. Once he seemed to lose consciousness; then he opened his eyes again, but only for an instant. It was to say: "That sniper feller Fritz 'ad a round fat face an spectacles. 'You'll 'appen to know 'im if ever you sees ‘im messin' about again on the ridge." He was quiet for a minute, then he added : "If you do, any o’ you chaps, you might let 'im know as Ah'nt not 'arf done for yet." Then lie was quiet, his eyes remaining shut.
We came at last to a bit of quaggy road, which one man, by making a dash as over thin ice, might possibly have got through; for six men and a stretcher this was impossible. The corporal called a halt and himself tried the place. "It's no go, lads," he said, scrambling back out of the bog. "We'll have to go outside. But bide a bit, boys; Ah'll make a bit of a look. round." He walked on and shouted warily to a solitary figure with a rifle who was standing thirty yards farther on, upon an island of clay built up in a little sea of water and' mud. "All quiet, mate? " he asked.
"Nowt but a few shells going," came the answer. "A few snipers were out earlier, but they've 'opped it."
"Think we'll be all right to take this fellow outside? He's pretty bad."
"You might," said the other .rather grudgingly, as he looked up at the sky. "Light's beginning to get yeller, and it's agen the snipers. You might be all right,"
The corporal stood in thought for a moment. "Ah'll just 'op out of the trench an' 'ave a look round." And with that the cool fellow climbed 'up the side of the trench remains and, pivoting round on his stomach at the top, lay with his gaze towards the enemy trenches. Pulling his iron helmet low down over his eyes, he looked intently front under the rim. He had been there perhaps a minute, when he suddenly slid headfirst down the trench side which, among its many other imperfections, sloped at this point instead of falling perpendicularly. And at that very moment there was a whistle of bullets just over the trench parapet and shots rang out front the German trenches, less than a hundred yards to the east. The corporal struggled to his feet, muddy but unhurt.
He plodded back to his comrades. "Can't be done yet, boys," he said coolly. "We'll have to wait. Sorry, sonny," 'he added, turning to the man on' the stretcher. "Fritz has not drawn off yet. We'll have .to keep you 'ere till it's a bit darker." He eased the patient's position on the stretcher, saying: "Can'st stick it a bit ? Art 'a all reet ?"

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 05:52:38 PM
Post by: timberman on November 15, 2009, 01:26:53 PM
________________________________________
PART THREE

"The lad shivered. "Ay, that cold." And with that the corporal took oft his own greatcoat and spread it over the boy on, the stretcher.
There, in the .cold light of the ebbing day, we waited. The sun sank grudgingly and yellowly behind us, throwing a cold, brassy sheen on to the yellow clay that, encompassed us all about. The colder wind of evening came. You could hear the. faint swish of it over the: trench-tops, and fitful gusts came along the trench - strong enough to make little frills and ruffles on the surface of the water and mud. The patient and his stretcher had been laid on a strip of ledge on the western wall of the trench - a bit of the old German fire-step that had somehow escaped destruction. His eyes were shut. Once his lips moved. His mind was evidently wandering back to his native Lancashire, and to his work on the cotton. "It's bloomin' cold i' this 'ere mill !" he said dreamily.
The sun sank between two stunted and shell-shattered trees. I watched it through a gap in the back of the trenches. Yellows and reds smeared the sky-line in a gradually lessening patch, which at last faded out. The stunted trees went with them. I was chattering with cold. My feet seemed frozen - as painful as if they had been squashed under a cart-wheel. Without warning, a German shell whined through the air over our heads and dropped somewhere in the village behind us. It was the first of many.
"That's Fritz beginning his evening 'strafin’ ' said the corporal. "Come on, lads. Time to get a move on!"
The patient was silent and motionless on his stretcher. The corporal scrambled again up the side of the trench, and again lay on his stomach on the top. Two minutes or so he waited, and then he stood upright. A bullet might have pinked. him at any moment. But none came. Instead another shell wailed through the air and on to the village below. We heard the solemn "crump" of it as it exploded. "Now, boys," he said, "'ave yer gas-masks ready. We don't want to be messed up fiddlin' for them things when a 'stinker' comes over." Then he looked over his men, and said: "Stuffy, you come along by me up 'ere, and the other lads will heave the stretcher up to us."
Stuffy," without a word, scrambled up the trench wall and stood by the corporal. The other four between them lifted the stretcher front its ledge and high above their heads. The corporal and "Stuffy" took the handles front their uplifted hands and bore the weight of the stretcher till two of the lifters had scrambled up.
"You others had best go by the trench," said the corporal. "No use a whole army corps walkin' about in the open. Meet you at the 'aid post.' And with that the four of them and their burden moved on over open ground in full view of the enemy, relying on their luck and the twilight to preserve them. Every day and every night those plucky regimental stretcher-bearers do the like.
The trench opened at length on to a narrow road cut through a hill, and called the Waggon Road. By this road you reached the village below - the newly-captured village of Beaumont-Hamel. It was a village no longer. Every building had been razed flat by shell fire, and such habitations as remained were old German dug-outs underground. At the entrance to one of these was a rough sign-board which, in white letters on a black ground, proclaimed the name, "Mannheim Villas." A pennant, which in daylight showed its colours red Regimental and white, fluttered above the signboard aid post as the mark of an ambulance-station.
This was the regimental aid post. Every regiment has one or more just behind the line at some spot which is sheltered. ‘Sheltered’ is largely a figure of speech, however, for though the regimental aid post is, perhaps, out of the line of direct rifle fire front the enemy trenches, it is in the way of all the shells that are going. Shells were drop ping now about Mannheim Villas, and dropping so unpleasantly close that I, for one, was only too glad to leave the upper earth for the cover of a dug-out.
You entered Mannheim Villas by a flight of wooden steps (twenty or so), sloping downwards steeply front Waggon Road towards the hill out of which the road was cut. The dug-out ran under the hill parallel to the road, and at intervals there were stairs and flue-holes leading upwards from it to the road, and meeting it at right angles. The main passage of the dug-out must have been nearly fifty yards long, but it was not all on one level, and one ascended and descended stairs in most perplexing fashion.
Our patient was lying in the "dressing-room" at the foot of the first flight of steps front the road. The four stretcher-bearers were sitting on the floor breathing heavily. Here the dug-out was about ten feet wide and seven feet high, and lined throughout with stout planks. Vertical beams supported the roof, as in a coal-pit. A lamp and several extra candles, lit as soon as the patient had arrived, shed a not too bright light over the curious scene. To the right, at the foot of the steps, was the dressers' table, covered with a spotless white cloth, on which lay dressings and lotions, basins, swabs, scissors, and all the rest of a surgeon's simpler accessories. In a canvas sling in the roof overhead were splints of all shapes : crooked splints for arms, straight splints for legs, splints in all sorts of fantastic shapes to suit any injury, and all ready to the dresser's hand. Warmth came front the fire under a great cooking-copper built in with cement.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 05:53:16 PM
Post by: timberman on November 15, 2009, 01:28:55 PM
________________________________________
PART FOUR

A crowd of muddy R.A.M.C. men and regimental stretcher-bearers looked on as the dressing was done, for beyond this room were their quarters, and, with the shells flying outside, everyone who had no work out of doors was underground The landing of the shells sent a curious, shivering shock through the dug-out but, thanks to its depth and solidity, they did no great harm. Shrapnel and flying shell fragments could find no way down here unless they came down the stairway, and that would need a specially unlucky shot.
No one took the slightest notice of the shells. I watched the faces, thrown into fierce lights and shadows by the flickering illuminants, and as "crump" followed "crump" outside not an eyelid flicked. I doubt whether the men were even conscious of the noise. Night after night of shelling had 'made them disregard it.
The patient's dressing was now finished, and his stretcher was put near the stove so that he might get warm before going off on the next stage of his journey. As he lay there, a young mud-stained soldier came running in a great hurry down the steps of the dug-out. He did not notice the stretcher in the shadows near the. boiler. "Has Private Oldham gone oft yet ?" he gasped. And, without waiting for an answer, he added breathlessly: "Is 'e bad? Where's he going to ? What's his…."
Seeing several eyes upon kint, looking as though for an explanation of his eagerness, he explained as follows : "Oh, there's nothing amiss, but I'm 'is pal, you see, an' I thought I might 'appen to see 'im afore 'e left." He paused for breath, and went on: "The lieutenant let me come down. Sent me with a message to the colonel 'e did … so as I might drop in at tile aid post 'ere on my way. Another pause, and then : "You see, I didna know as he were wounded till quarter of an hour ago. Th' chaps told me, an' I went to th' lieutenant right away " Another pause. “You see, I'm 'is pal!"
The lad could not have been more than twenty, and he stood there in all his mud, with the lamp-light glinting into his bright eyes, coming ever back to that simple soldier formula, "I'm 'is pal," as though in those mystic words lay explanation enough for any queer thing a soldier lad might do concerning another. And in those simple words lies, as every soldier knows, explanation enough for many a risk, many a kindness, many a sacrifice, many a heroism between one soldier and another. There is no truer, cleaner thing in all life than these "palships" of the trenches.
The lad could see that his explanation satisfied everybody - for all of them were soldiers, and knew - and he began his questions again. "Was 'e bad? 'Ow long's 'e been gone? Where's 'e gone to? " The men grinned. The boy looked round to try to see where the joke lay. A voice came at that moment from the shadows near the boiler-a voice singularly sturdy and strong. " 'E ain't gone no-wheres, 'Arry Droilesden," it said.
" 'E's 'ere !”
The voice was too well known. The boy went along the dug-out in a few quick strides. Having reached his chum's stretcher, he looked at it and his: friend stolidly for a moment, and then came the following conversation :
'Ello, Jack !’
'Ello, 'Arry !’ (Long pause).
‘You been and cotched one?’
‘Ay ! l cotched one all reet.’
‘You 'ave an' all? Is it a bad 'un?’
‘Oh, just tidy like."
That was all. From that moment John Oldham might have been to Harry Droilesden the least interesting person or thing in all the Somme battlefield. They did not talk; they did not even look at one another. After standing for some time idly looking round the dug- out, Harry sat down on the ground near John's stretcher. Now they will talk, thought I, - But no. Harry had merely sat, it seemed, the better to scrape mud from his puttees with. the jackknife which he now produced for that purpose. Possibly they spoke later. I don't know. For an R.A.M.C. captain took me away at that moment to be shown over the dug- out. I would rather have stood in my corner keeping a quiet eye on the strange meeting of Harry and John.
We went down another flight of steps and thus into the main tunnel of the dug-out. Here, as "upstairs," the walls were solid timber-lined. There were lamps at intervals. Men were lying on the ground, some of them writing, some card-playing, some reading. We stepped over outstretched legs as we walked along. Then the tunnel ascended by ten or twelve steps and became rather wider. Here were a number of men lying and standing in the neighbourhood of a big brazier filled with glowing coals. The smoke, or rather some of it, left the dug-out up a long sloping shaft to the right, which in the dug-out's German days had been an extra entrance. But a shell had upset the wooden staircase, and the passage bad been remade into a chimney and ventilating shaft. Farther along the tunnel in a little cubicle on the left no bigger than a good-sized packing-case were three officers, two of whom were playing piquet while the third looked on. A candle stuck on the lid of a cigarette-tin was their only lighting. These were "regimental surgeons," off duty. The Royal Army Medical Corps supplies one or more surgeons to each battalion to be "attached" to that battalion. These officers in turn pick out a number of men from their battalion and train them in first-aid, stretcher drill, and the care of wounded. These bearers go into trenches with their battalions and follow them into action They have all the risks of war and few of the joys of fighting, their duty being merely to collect the wounded from the trench or the battlefield as the case may be, and to get them as far as the regimental aid post. The stretcher is the most usual means of transport if the patient cannot walk, but many a wounded man is brought to the regimental aid post on the back of a stretcher-bearer or a regimental pal.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 05:53:49 PM
PLEASE NOTE
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Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)




Post by: timberman on November 15, 2009, 01:30:41 PM
________________________________________
PART FIVE

I noticed at the aid post that some of the bearers were of the R.A.M.C.. while others wore regimental badges. It was explained to me that the aid post. is the point at which the R.A.M.C. and the regiments in the line link up, for at the aid post the wounded pass definitely from their regiment - which knows them no more until they are cured - into the hands of the R.A.M.C. who are responsible for all future treatment. In calm times the R.A.M.C. do not go nearer the line than the aid post, but when any fighting is going on they go forward to help the regimental medical workers. Thus, at all stormy times, the R.A.M.C. are sharers in whatever risk is going at the moment, and the number of men of this valiant corps who have lost their lives is testimony enough to what these risks may be.
The officers are no safer than the privates. For though it is an order that medical officers must expose themselves as little as possible, they may be called up into the line at any moment to deal with an urgent case that cannot be moved without surgical treatment.
Every one of the surgeons in that aid post was well acquainted with the trenches at their worst, and, for that matter, the aid post itself was anything but a haven of safety. The hurtling shells outside reminded one of that.
We arrived back at the dressing-room of the dug-out and found John Oldham ready for moving. A runner had been sent to the "motor-car station" to tell them to send a car forward to the motor control, and the patient was to be carried down to the control to meet it. For it was impossible to bring a motor-car so far forward as the aid post. The road from it was no more than a rough path, made with bricks and planks across a wilderness of shell-holes and hummocks. The battered houses of the village had yielded the materials.
We set off, and I noticed with misgivings new shell-holes right alongside the track on which we were to walk. They had not been there half an hour earlier when we passed along the track - of that I was certain. It was dark now - pitch dark save when star-shells rose slowly into the sky from the German lines behind us, throwing for a few seconds a pale, sickly whiteness over a great circle of earth.
An eerie thing it was to walk here in the dark, picking your way by tapping with your stick the broken bricks of which the road was made; then, suddenly, to find the whole world lit up as with a ghostly moonlight. Each light stayed only long enough to reveal the grim signs of war immediately about you. It might be only the stretcher-bearers whom you noticed in their queer iron helmets - making still queerer shadows - all marching in step, with their stretcher and its silent burden, rocking rhythmically up and down to each step they were taking. Or a flare might disclose to you the barren countryside, all shell-heaps and shell-holes, with here and there a tree disfigured by shell till its few remaining branches, broken short, stood out hideously, like gnarled, rheumatic fingers clawing greedily at an unreachable sky. Once a flare revealed to me what I thought at first were figures of men sleeping out in the open. But their poses were not those of sleep. Legs, top-booted, stretched out sprawlingly from under stiff-looking greatcoats; arms reached out unnaturally to clasp distant clouts of clay; and a sleeper's head might lie in a pool of water and trouble him not at all. For they would never wake up, those sleepers. The little round caps they wore showed them to be Germans.
After going about half a mile. along that road I saw, some twenty yards off, the red glow of a cigarette upon a face behind it: A man was leaning, smoking, against a motor- ambulance which was hiding under a bank, without lights. This was the nearest point to which a motor could approach. the trenches. The driver stood by while the R.A.M.C. men opened its back canvas flaps and lifted the stretcher into the dark body of the vehicle. "Will you ride in the van or do you care for a walk?" asked my guide, an R.A.M.C. captain. I was anxious not to lose touch with the patient, but on being assured that I should overtake him at the. next stopping-place I agreed to walk. One man got in the waggon with the patient, the others stood by to see him start away. "Good-bye, Jack,". said one of them to him as the engine began to turn. "Hope it's one that will take you back to 'Blighty.'" The speaker was Harry Droilesden. With this good wish - the best wish you can wish any wounded British Tommy - he drew off and turned once more with the stretcher bearers towards Beaumont-Hamel - Beaumont-Hamel with its mud and its shell-holes and its dead. For myself I was glad to be leaving that war-shell-range worn spot and all its dangers behind me.
I said something of the sort to the captain, adding that adventures and dangers and risks were the pleasantest things in the world - when they were well behind. you and you were through them. I even found myself stepping out with vigour, under the stimulus of this idea of danger faced and at last successfully passed.
which showed with a faint pale-green light in the darkness. "Yes," he went on. "They usually begin shelling for working-parties about this time, and you never know quite which district they'll pick upon.” He explained that both sides did most of their work in the trenches such as trench-digging and repairing, dug-out making, wire-laying and so on at night, and that working parties were sent up from villages - and camps behind the lines to do it.
At night, therefore, the Germans began to shell these villages and the roads leading from them in the hope of hitting working-parties while they were assembling or were moving up to the lines along the roads. "They might begin any minute to drop them on this road," he concluded.
I pulled my shrapnel helmet till it hung more protectingly over the nape of my neck, and walked on with my enthusiasm distinctly modified. Five minutes later, as we plodded along that dark, uneven road, the shelling began sure enough. But the spot which the enemy bad chosen that evening was not our own immediate neighbourhood - but the village to which we were walking and to which John Oldham and his motor-ambulance had gone on. This was the village of Mailly Maillet. It lay a few miles before us, and the German shells on their way to it passed over our heads. We could hear each of them, first behind us, a thin piercing whine which gradually rose in pitch and grew louder as the shell passed overhead, then grew faint again. A second or two later we heard the boom of the shell's explosion in the neighbourhood - of Mailly Maillet. Some shells, we noticed, passed over without being followed by any "clump" from the village. We heard the explanation later, which was that a number of them were "duds," having failed to "go off."
I am afraid I loitered just a little on the road to Mailly. One excellent excuse I found for doing so was to turn aside to see the motor control post. It was a ruined homestead by the roadside, the roof of which had been patched up with tarpaulin sheets and the walls with sand-bags. Thus repaired, it made a quite presentable - shelter in spite of all the German shells had done. A man with a rifle and a lantern bawled : "Who goes there ?" as we approached in the darkness.
An R.A.M.C. sergeant was in command with one or two helpers he arranged for of ambulance-cars between Beaumont-Hamel collecting post and Mailly Maillet behind, and for any extra cars that might six to one be summoned by runner. In a little book which he showed us by lamp-light he had the time of the runner's arrival and the time the car was despatched.
Apparently the most advanced posts of the field ambulance organisation had not attained to the luxury of a telephone service yet. But seeing that even the gunners had all their work cut out to maintain telephone lines over these shell-swept areas, a telephone corps for the R.A.M.C. was probably too much to ask for.
We came out into the darkness of the Mailly road again to find that the British guns had taken up the challenge of the enemy's "strafe" and were replying with rather more energy than. the enemy was showing. I gathered in fact that the British policy of retaliation at this period of the war was grossly generous, the general idea, both in battery and in trench being to send back six times the quantity of whatever the Germans sent over. Thus, if any German infantryman in a playful moment pitched up a hand-grenade to drop into your trench, the scheme of things was promptly to throw six back. Should a German gunnery officer, to gratify a whim or a visitor - as I myself have been gratified by gunnery officers, - who as a genus just love to say: "This is how she does it," and then to fire off their biggest gun, much to the shock of that visitor's ears and system - well should a German gunner give way to such weakness, the British gunner felt in all politeness bound promptly to fire off six shells as big or bigger and if he felt particularly active that night he would not stop at six times. Another little disinterestedness about the British gunners that struck me was this - that none of them seemed to throw work on ‘the other fellow’. Thus if six shots or so were needed to keep up the fair proportion of six shots for one shot sent over by some chance German battery, every single battery that heard the shot seemed to think the task of answering was its own especial prerogative and not that of "the other battery" round the corner.
It is only in this way that I can explain the extraordinary response given to those score or so. of German shells that flew over our heads on the Mailly road that night. Every British battery for miles around seemed to have awakened from its slumbers by those shots, and to be working now like a railway breakdown station gang for vigour. Batteries to the right of us, batteries to the left and in front of us, all were barking away in wonderful fashion.
The white-blue flashes of field-guns and long. guns, the pink flashes of "hows" - as howitzers are called-lit up the earth. To add to the sky effects the Germans, becoming nervous of an attack, perhaps, began to send up star-shells and flares in great quantities.
To stand thus, in a quiet country lane, hearing the amazing barks of many different guns and the whine of many different shells, and to see gnarled and shattered trees jump out at you, black and still and horrible against momentary backgrounds of livid flame, struck me as the most unreal thing I had ever experienced. But for one's ever-conscious knowledge of its full horror and deadly reality, one would have thought it all a product of stage-craft rather than of war.
From among the mud and ruins of Mailly Maillet-which had-suffered from the gun fire of British, French, and German alike in its day - my guide picked out a little house with whitewashed walls, standing alone in a ruined garden. Every window of the house was broken, and curtains of felt or flannel, fastened only at the top, had been hung inside to cover up the wooden window-frames. If you watched these curtains closely you would notice that they flapped with every gun that was fired in the neighbourhood and with every German shell that arrived in the village.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 05:55:12 PM
Post by: timberman on November 15, 2009, 01:32:17 PM
________________________________________
PART SIX

The house had escaped major damage. A chimney-pot or two -had been hit and there were jagged chunks out of the wall in one or two places; but little else. The one great German shell that would have "done for" that place and demolished it entirely had repented at the last moment and failed to explode. It lay on the little backlawn for all eyes to see by day and for all shins to hit by night - a "dud." You fell over it when you walked into the back garden at nights. It was the usual thing, in fact, for your. host in that house to say, if you spoke of going out of doors for a breath of air at nights: "Don't fall over the shell.'
That house was an Advanced Dressing-Station, an important link in the medical scheme of things out at the war.. Its commanding officer was the captain who had kindly acted: as my guide to Beaumont-Hamel, an excellent soul from far New. Zealand.
"Now, this advanced dressing-station," he had begun, when we entered, “receives wounded from its regimental aid posts at Beaumont and -. But I won't tell you another word till you've had some tea, so you can put that notebook away for a spell and - “WAIT !" - this last word in a shout. I thought he was joking still, but a rosy-cheeked orderly put his head inside the door and said; "Yes,: sir:?" - Tea was ordered, and I made the discovery - that the orderly's name was Wait.
"Your patient, Qldham, is safe and sound in the cellars," the captain added, "and will not be going farther for an hour or so, so you can put your mind at rest. He won't escape you."
"Why in the cellars ?" I asked.
“Because," he answered, "Whenever the village is being shelled, as it was when we came in, all the patients we may have in here at the. time are carried down into the cellars. They'll come up again when it's over. Get some tea.” The captain had poured me out a tin mug of tea from a tin teapot. Toast had come in on a tin plate, and butter lay near at hand in a tin can.
“Milk, orderly !" sang out the captain.
"I'll have to get some more out, sir," said the orderly, and the - er - the gentleman there is sitting on it."
The upturned-wooden case which served me for a chair was rummaged in and from it was produced a tin labelled “Milk." The orderly jabbed the spike of his jack-knife clever]y through the lid in two places, one on each side and when he upturned the tin over my tea mug there flowed milk from the lower hole, excellent stuff of the density of cream, while through the upper hole of the-tin lid went in air to take the place of the milk that came out. The day of thick and sticky canned milk was over.
Over tea and toast and jam I had time to take stock of the queer room in which we sat. It was the captain's bed-room, sitting-room, dining-room, reception-room, and office all in one. The walls were of plain, whitewashed plaster and the windows - or rather the window-holes - were covered with sacking, which flapped listlessly in the wind and heavily at every gun shot or shell fall outside.
The one lamp of the place stood in the middle of our tea-table. Its glass mantle had been broken and repaired - very dexterously, I thought - with surgical sticking-plaster. Its flame threw firm, black shadows of you on to the whitewashed wall behind. Some busy soul had occupied himself in tracing out these shadows of men as they sat at the table, and the wall was covered with charcoal silhouettes. One aquiline portrait was labelled.: McMurtrie," another was labelled " Torrance" - former- occupants, no doubt, of' this primitive little billet. The captain's camp bed lay in a far corner among some boxes of tinned milk, petrol-cans, and other stores. A bright fire of wood flickered in a rusty little grate, sharing about equally with the plastered lamp the duty of lighting the room.
After tea I found John Oldham again. He was in .a cellar, with low-arched roof lying on his back on a stretcher under a blanket, just above the edge of which appeared the glowing tip of a cigarette and his face.
"How goes it now?" I asked him. He grinned and said in a voice full of mock woefulness: “Well; Ah'm just about as well as can be expected, thank ye, sir."
Other patients lying on their backs on the cellar-flags near him all laughed at this, and I gathered from a friendly corporal that this was the recognised reply of Tommies who while feeling in pretty good spirits, were anxious not to be regarded as well enough to be sent back to: the trenches. For a little hospital treatment, even in the dark cellar of a shelled villa, came like a spell of paradise to lads who had been weeks in the dreadful trenches of the Somme. Not that Oldham, with his thigh wound, ever stood any risk of being sent back. Still, it pleased him and his sense of mischief, as active in him as in all good soldiers, to pretend that he was shirking going back. It was one of the forms of humour at the front to pretend to be "funking" or shirking. As they lay helpless I could hear them joking one to another about their illnesses and wounds. I remember one big fellow, whose face had been half blown away by a shell and who, when he thought no officer was about said, in a mock, pathetic voice for his fellows to hear : "I think I could just take a little gruel now, doctor." And then he himself and all his pals laughed as at a joke of priceless merit - the truth being, of course, that if he did manage to eat even a little gruel that would be all that he could manage.
But that same spirit of fun-making seemed to hang about some of our British wounded even to the end; they died mocking their wounds.
As soon as the shelling stopped the patients were carried to more airy quarters upstairs. The change was no doubt welcome enough, for the fire which had been lit in the cellar to take the chill and dankness for the place was behaving badly and sending more of its smoke into the cellar than up the chimney. The orderlies were coughing heartily enough, but the patients seemed not to notice it.
The Somme had apparently made any other conditions seem comfortable. The stone steps leading to the basement had been covered with a smooth plank and up this inclined plane the patients' stretchers were slid with greater ease and steadiness than would have been possible if they had had to be carried. "It's as good as th' toboggan at Blackpool," said one voice; and from the voice and the accent - which made "pool" rhyme with the word "foal," as a Piccadilly "Johnny" might pronounce it - I recognised friend Oldham, of Lancashire.
From the cellar the patients, who numbered perhaps a dozen, were carried to more airy quarters in the attics. Here they lay anxiously speculating as to their fate. Would they be kept here for a day or two and then sent back to the trenches, or would they be passed on to a base hospital or to "Blighty" ? This last was what every, man hoped for; but of course for all of them it was impossible. Slight cases of injury or sickness would lie here perhaps for a day or two and then go back to duty. Others might go only a little way down the lines of communication, there to lie up till better. Others might get as far as the sea-coast of France to one or other of the base hospitals. Every type and condition of hospital in fact, between 'the trenches and home would sift out some patients for treatment and only the lucky few would ever achieve their dream of being sent home to "Blighty" and seeing their friends once more. Once when I went upstairs to have another look at the patients a discussion was going on between two or three of them as to their respective chances of being sent home. They were lying on their stretchers, some smoking and talking, others asleep. A solitary lamp shed a faint, flickering light over their recumbent forms. "Ay," said one voice, as though in disputation over some point a neighbour had raised, "It's true enough that I've only a bullet wound in the arm, as you say, but I've got a touch 0' bronchitis an' all! Heard the orderly say so when he heard me wheezin' !”
"That's all very well," said another voice, "but did he write it down on yer ticket ? You could have hydrophobie also an' it wouldn't help you two-penn' worth if the doc didn't write it down on yer ticket !” (The ticket to which he referred was the little label - white for non-dangerous cases, red and white for dangerous cases - which was tied to the jacket of every patient at the regimental aid post and which with any necessary emendations or additions made at intermediate dressing-stations, went with the patient from first to last as the medical summary of his case and symptoms.)
"'Can't say as it's on my ticket as I' knows on." Here the voice was raised to call to the orderly who was not far away: 'Hi, matey, you might read us out what's written on my ticket !”
"Wait till daylight and get to sleep my lad," said the orderly not unkindly. "It's latish. You ought all on yer to be getting a bit 0' sleep instead of chattering away there like a girls' school. Be good lads an’ get to sleep."


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 05:55:48 PM
Post by: timberman on November 15, 2009, 01:35:27 PM
________________________________________
PART SEVEN

He reminded me of a mother. There was silence for a while in the little whitewashed attic and then the voice went on in a whisper : "Yer bronchitis will be a good help if it's' on yer ticket. We'll read it in the mornin'. My chance is pretty all right, I think. I've got a temperachure, besides me wound. 'Undred it were when it were last took. Pretty good that! They think a lot about temperachures. Orderly told me so. Very particklar about temperachures." So they talked, on their stretchers, in that dimly-lighted attic. Oldham, I noticed, was asleep.
I went downstairs again and into the room opposite the doctor's. This was the receiving- room and dressing room; a big Primus stove sent up a dull droning from a point near the empty fireplace. ,By lamp-light a surgeon was dressing a dark-red gash in a man's back. Another patient waited near, sitting on a form. Very interested he seemed in all that was being done to his colleague. He caught an orderly's eye and speaking with difficulty through a swollen mouth, he explained his case. "Small tube blew out of our gun. Got me fair in the teeth it did, and laid out a tidy few of them on the floor. Guess I'll have to have a nice new set of top ones from the dentist when I get home. Fancy me wi' a nice set 0' false teeth. Won't I be a swank !" .And he laughed at the prospect.
A huge box stood in the middle of the floor and every now and again the dressers' threw into it bits of wound-stained lint. With these grim tokens of war and casualty it was full. "We empty it once a day in slack times, said an orderly, "and three, four, five, or even twenty times a day in busy times." I noticed that one of the treatments meted out to all wounded dressed at this station was a hypodermic injection of some white-coloured, fluid. This was to guard against the deadly disease tetanus, or lockjaw, the germs of which live and thrive in the yellow mud of the Somme. As it was almost impossible that any wound incurred in this district could have escaped contact with mud, the anti-tetanus injection was given in every case.
John Oldham was sent farther down the line that night, and I went in the same motor- ambulance with him. It was 'moonlight now, and the gun fire had ceased, though an occasional star-shell soared into the air and whitened the sky over in the 'direction of the German lines. The roads were quiet. At first we talked - he lying on his stretcher on the right side of the car, I sitting on the seat on the other side. He told me he was a spinner by trade, and that be and many other spinners had joined up at the beginning of the war in a Pals' battalion .recruited in the neighbouring city of Manchester. He went on to tell me of his pals, and what had happened to them and of the places they had been in on the line.
But, sitting there in the darkness of the ambulance-waggon rocked by the lurches of the car on the uneven road, he seemed to tire. His voice became more of a monotone, and I ceased to answer any of his remarks; and sure enough before many minutes he was asleep again. I turned aside the back flap of the car and looked out. The moon, though hidden now, was sending a soft luminousness over things. Now and again we passed a soldier in an iron helmet plodding along the road. In one ruined homestead without roof, was a tiny fire round which three or four soldiers were sitting. The earth round about was strewn with barrel-shaped coils. The spot was a barbed-wire "dump."
Once we passed a little train of supply-waggons, empty and halted by the roadside. A lantern glowed under each tarpaulin roof, showing that each was in use as a tent or shelter. From one waggon, in passing, I saw the faint, blue light of a Primus stove. Between. the two sides of the waggon were frames of wood with sacking stretched tightly across them to serve as beds.
Sentries and military police with lanterns were posted along the roads at intervals, but they did not trouble us much. Our driver and his car-which did this particular run many times a day were too well known for them to need to stop us. And so, in good time, we arrived at the next halting-place for wounded from this particular part of the Somme front. It was a main dressing-station in the village of Bertrandcount.
Switching sharply to the right, our car passed tinder a brick archway and into a big open square. It had been the yard of a farm, and was flanked on all four sides by low farm buildings - those curious buildings of bricks and beams and plaster common to all the farming villages of the Somme. In normal times that farmyard at this time of night. would have been dark and quiet, save, perhaps, for the lowing of cattle in the byres. But now dim lights twinkled from every side of the square, and uniformed men, some carrying lanterns, were moving busily about.
A little squad of R.A.M.C. orderlies came at a trot to meet our incoming car, and as we came to a standstill they formed up in line at our back without question or word; each man ready to make things easier for any poor wounded lad that might be inside. As the canvas flap of the waggon was pulled aside I stood up and leapt out, but before I reached the gr6und stout arms caught me suddenly under the armpits and lowered me to the ground as gently as though my twelve-stone weight had been twelve pounds.
"Take it gently sir," said a reproving voice, "you might 'appen to do yourself harm if you don't go gently." In the dark they had mistaken me for a wounded officer - as was natural perhaps seeing that I was riding in an ambulance-motor and that my uniform was that of an officer. I may mention now that on all my journey from the front to home R.A.M.C. men of all grades showed the same inclination to treat me as an invalid. I had to explain to them that I was neither wounded nor ill, but even then they would sometimes look me over carefully for a casualty card or ‘field medical card’ as it is called. Some of them seemed disappointed that they could do nothing for me and the way they leapt away to help any wounded Tommy or officer was evidence enough of their real keenness.
The commanding officer of this main dressing-station - an R.A.M.C. colonel - had himself come out to see what cases our ambulance-car and others behind it had brought along I made myself known to him, and presented my credentials. He took me with him while he saw to the disposal of the cases, and then said I must have something to eat before I looked over the station in more detail.
Along a muddy lane we plodded to a little white cottage by the door of which were painted the words "Officers' Mess. Field Ambulance. No.-"
In a plain kitchen, some half-dozen officers were sitting round a rusty fire-grate before a fire which shed a thin fog of smoke into, the room. A lamp-light shone upon the remains of dinner - for dinner, late in this busy camp was just over. I made there the acquaintance of officers some of whom (as I learned later) had given up medical practices and positions at home to come out and "do their bit," and it was no rare thing to see streaks of silver in the hair of an officer wearing the modest two stars of a lieutenant. An orderly of size and venerable age found me some mutton and cabbage on a tin plate, and, in a confidential whisper asked me whether I would like, whisky-and-water or tea. I have noticed before in Canada and elsewhere how hard work in. primitive conditions conduces to the tea habit. When I remarked something of the sort to the colonel he mentioned that almost the only drink and the only thing asked for by the wounded men and sick who came up from the trenches was tea. "They are offered cocoa or coffee or soup, or a hot meat-drink of some kind, but almost all of them," he said, ask for tea."
"It's a curious thing too," added the colonel, as we walked down the lane again to the station later, that they won't eat meat. At first, when they come in muddy and tired and weak, they don't seem to want anything much, but a mug of hot tea brightens them up, and then they feel they can eat. And what do you think they like best ? Bread-and-jam! Wounded Tommies who will not look at sandwiches or meat-stew or anything else will eat ravenously of bread-and jam. My own belief is that you can't do better for a wounded man, especially walking wounded, than feed them up, and I have watched a good deal to see the thing that they like best. Bread and jam comes an easy first."
By this time we were in the receiving-room of the dressing-station. A barn had been provided with a canvas roof and partitions and also with a big waterproof ground-sheet for a flooring. Acetylene lamps gave quite a good working light and the chamber was kept at a pleasant warmth by a circular stove, the flue-pipe of which passed through a tin panel let into the canvas sides of the chamber. This tin-plate flue was no more than a petrol-tin cut up and flattened out-struck me as an ingenious way. of overcoming the risk of a fire in the canvas wall due to a too hot flue-pipe.
The first thing that happened to every wounded man who entered that reception chamber was to have details taken .of his name, regiment, wound, and conditions as shown on his little field medical card, and after that to be fed, washed and tidied up and given new garments if necessary. Most wounded were able to walk and they were told to pass over to the refreshment buffet, which with a bright light of its own stood in a separate partition under the presidency of a cheery-faced orderly in shirtsleeves and a white apron. Before him was a counter filled with eatables. His opening question to each man was this: "Now, my lad, tea, coffee, cocoa, soup, or stew? " It might have been all one word and one dish by the businesslike way he rattled it off. But the Tommies understood all right, and one and all chose tea. As he filled mug after mug it struck me that he did it more by his sense of touch and weight than by sight, for his eyes were roaming about all over the wounded and his lips were repeating again and again the cheerful invitation: "It's all right, my boys, pick up anything you fancy. It's all yours and it's there to be eaten." And with his eyes and a nod of the head he would beckon to any soldier who seemed to be hanging back and press him to choose something from among the great platefuls of sandwiches, bread-and-butter, bread-and-jam, cake and so on which filled the counter. The artillery man with the damaged mouth mumbled, on being pressed to eat, that he could not eat anything because of his sore jaws, whereupon the attendant said: " Oh, I'll soon fix you." He busied himself behind the counter for a minute and then presented the artillery-man with a basin of hot bread-and-milk.
The stretcher cases lying in another canvas partition were feeding or being fed by orderlies when I went in to see how friend Oldham was getting along. "Just had a cup o' real good tea," he said cheerily, "and now I am going to slip my face round this." And he held up for my inspection a big slice of bread-and-jam. "Makes you hungry motorin'," he added quite seriously. My mind went back to that solemn and jolting night ride of ours in the darkness of the motor-ambulance car, and I thought I had never heard the word "motoring" more curiously applied.
There was to be no transport of wounded that night to stations farther down the line, and when I left the main dressing-station for the officers' mess again the patients had been "bedded down" for the night. The colonel had taken me round various dark canvas wards, with an electric pocket torch to light us, promising me a more detailed "look round" in the morning, and I walked up the lane with him to the mess with curious memory pictures going through my mind of recumbent figures of wounded men in all positions - pictures of men with placid faces, calmly sleeping, of men with faces furrowed by pain, of men lying with bodies bent and limbs awkwardly extended - and all these pictures were cut out in circles from surrounding blackness by the white glow of a pocket torch. It was as though I had been in a dark room, watching lantern slides on a screen; circular slides showing poor wounded, bandaged, and "splinted" humanity in vivid lantern pictures.
I slept that night on a camp bed in a cottage in the village. There had been some discussion in the mess earlier as to where I should be billeted, and someone had said: "In the padre's billet." The padre was away on leave it seemed, so I was given his bed. They took me along a muddy lane, then through a gate in a wall and up a garden path to a white, low-roofed. cottage. In a ground-floor room, littered with ornaments and furniture and luggage, were two soldiers' beds. By the light of my candle I could see that a man was already asleep in one of them. Upon the other, a few inches above the wooden floor were some blankets and an officer's greatcoat. Three stars on a black ground. on the shoulders told me that it was the padre's. May I thank. him now for the comfort of his greatcoat that night. For it was bitter cold.
I did not feel like sleep. For a time I lay awake with the candle on the floor near my face, watching the flickering shadows it threw upon the whitewashed ceiling. Everything was quiet save for the ticking of a watch somewhere in my neighbour's clothes and the quiet moaning of the wind in the wide chimney of the cottage. Then he began to breathe heavily, and in a minute a loud voice came to me from his bed, saying: "Look here, you'll have to get those waggons into better shelter than this, and quick, too."
"Sorry, what's that you say?" I replied. He did not answer. He was asleep. I. learnt next day that he was an officer of motor transport. His cares were evidently following him in his dreams.
At length I seized my boot, and with the heel of it knocked out the candle, trying then to sleep. But after perhaps ten minutes the solemn "crump" of a shell somewhere in the neighbourhood made me wide awake once more. I listened for another. It came along, and though it was well distant the cottage and my bed gave a little shiver. There came another, and I felt certain I heard the fall of a "dud" shell in the near neighbourhood of the cottage. I felt for the candle and found it, but there were no matches I got up and searched but could find none. The room was dark. Feeling my way I found the door, went out into the passage and opened the front door. A cold wind rushed in. Here in my pyjamas I stood watching the restless swaying of the bushes in the garden and the white flashes of guns and star-shells in the sky away to the east. There was not a sound in the village of Bertrandcourt ; not a light. The moon, behind banks of clouds, cast a filmy pale-blue light on the white walls of the cottage. If shells were causing those dull, flat thuds that I could hear every now and again, certainly no one was taking any notice. I went back and crept in among the blankets and the greatcoat once more, and was half asleep when sounds, as of a fierce quarrel-in French-and moans came from the neighbouring room of the cottage. For two or three minutes it went on in most amazing and unnatural fashion - all in one voice, till I guessed that here again was someone talking in his sleep - some old Frenchman apparently. infirm and short of breath, for he gasped as he talked and scolded.
An orderly standing at my bedside with a candle woke me next morning. Then he flung back the heavy wooden shutters and let the morning sunshine into the room.
As I stood washing, the door of the further room opened, and out came the queerest old man. He was dressed in some quaint dressing-gown and a little black skull cap, from under the sides of which protruded fuzzy tufts of silvery hair. His head, under the skull cap, seemed to taper almost to a point. He had a round, clean-shaven face, ruddy as an apple ; heavy white eyebrows, and beneath them little twinkling eyes of extraordinary brilliance. As I did not know him from Adam I was not a little surprised when he trotted up to me playfully, and with many smiles patted me on the bare back.
"You Engleeshman? Yes? Very bon," he said, all in one breath. "Germans-Allemands - no bon, no bon." He shook his head fiercely, then he calmly looked me over as I stood there in my pyjama trousers. He stroked my bare arms and went on: "You soldier? Engleesh soldier? Very bon, very bon." He never waited for an answer to anything, but went on: "You marié? You got pretty wife, very bon, yes?" I could not help grinning, and he continued: "Bon, very bon." He passed his hand over my chest and back, then hit me on the chest with his fist.
"You fort, yes? Very strong, very bon, yes? " I replied in French to the effect that I was very well, thank you.
He cocked his old head. on one side. Then he turned, and repeating: 'Very bon, very bon, very bon," he trotted, back to his own room.
I learned later that the old gentleman, was the village curé, very old indeed, though growing. younger in manner every day. It was his cottage in which I had slept. The war had upset. his mind very much, and he was very, very old so, I felt. glad I had not. chased. him out the bedroom with my shaving-brush as I had once thought of doing.
The main dressing-station at Bertrandcourt, seen by daylight, looked much bigger than it had done the night before; one saw that in addition to all its farm buildings, made habitable and usable by canvas roofs, floors, and partitions, it had also many canvas marquees, stretching out into the orchard behind. Here too was a dug-out for “shelly" days, as my guide expressed it, capable of sheltering a hundred patients if need be. This was one of the best specimens of British-made dug-outs I saw on the Somme, and it disposed effectually of the statements one often heard that only the Germans could build dug-outs.
The equipment of the main dressing-station was considerably more extensive than that of either the advance dressing-station or the aid post. Quite extensive medical work could be done here if necessary. One interesting feature was the oxygen tent, in which stood an oxygen cylinder with a cunning little contrivance (made from a petrol-can, a tin bath of water and some tubing) with which oxygen could be administered to half a dozen patients at once from the one cylinder. An incinerator was busily at work in one corner of the grounds making a merry smoke of its own. In another corner were good-sized kitchens with cooks busily at work, As I walked round with the colonel, men were busy improving the pathways between the various tents or wards by laying "duck-boards" upon them. Duck-boards laid on wet and slippery mud make perhaps the most slippery pathway possible - a pathway most dangerous and difficult for a wounded man or for a stretcher-party. But this path can be made "non-skid" by the simple device of laying wire- netting such as is used for chicken-runs over the surface of the wood. This plan had been followed at Bedrandeourt, and the paths were quite safe and comfortable under foot.


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 05:56:20 PM
Post by: timberman on November 15, 2009, 01:36:44 PM
________________________________________
PART EIGHT

Oldham had passed a fair night in one of the canvas wards of the dressing-station, and it was decided to send him on that day to the next medical post on the long journey home - a casualty clearing-station. He heard the news secretly from me with a pleased grin, for it was not always an easy thing for a wounded man to learn whether he was to be moved and what his destination was, In fact, he could be kept at any of these medical posts on the line, if his case was capable of treatment there and if there was room to spare - and eventually he would be sent back to his regiment without ever getting nearer to the one great place he hoped to go to "Blighty." Every move farther down, therefore, was regarded as a "score." The parties of wounded leaving any medical post for the one lower down were all smiles and good-humour. They would be that much nearer "Blighty”.
One point interested me as the big "Bulldog" motor-ambulance car was being loaded up with its freight of wounded. The driver was signing his name in a book held open for him by the sergeant in charge of the camp "pack store." The Sergeant explained to me that every article found on a wounded man had to be accounted for on every stage of the journey from trench downwards. Every wounded man's pocket possessions and luggage were entered on printed forms, item for item-knife, watch, rings - even down to simple, valueless things such as "a key-ring without keys," which item I saw figuring solemnly on the list of personal possessions of my friend Oldham. The driver of any car receiving a patient had to give a receipt for any kit and personal possessions of the patients he received. When he delivered his patient to the next medical post he took a receipt from the keeper of that station's pack store, into which they were put pending the wounded man's recovery or removal to another post. In the case of officers all luggage, as well as equipment, had to be signed and accounted for in the same way. The list of a man's belongings had at the first opportunity to be signed by the man himself as being' correct. In the case of an officer his servant's signature was regarded as sufficient. If a man were too ill to sign, then one of his officers had to sign.. Money and jewellery and other small valuables were put in a little bag and tied upon the patient.
Our carload for the journey to the next post consisted of five patients and myself as inside passengers. There were only two stretcher cases - Oldham and a young Scottish soldier who though suffering from. a most painful shell wound, lay quietly on his back smoking cigarettes. The other passengers were "sitters" as walking wounded or sick were called for purposes of transport. Among them, was a young officer suffering very badly from bronchitis. He spent much of the journey apologising to me and himself I think-for having left the trenches. He was ill and so weak that he only just failed to be a stretcher case. He seemed terribly depressed - not so much by his illness as at having to "throw up the sponge," as he termed it, and leave his work. "Stuck it as long as I could," he told me. Then there was silende in the car for perhaps five minutes. I was thinking of something else when he turned to the again and said: "Wouldn't have cared if I could have stuck it till we were relieved." Another pause for coughing, and then: "We'd only another day to go." He made more remarks of like nature before the journey was finished. His failure was on his mind, it was clear.
It became cold as the sun sank, and one could see that the patients tired. The men sat or lay with closed eyes; There was no talking for the last half-hour of our journey. When at last we ran into the casualty clearing-station, beyond Puchevillers, it was dusk. A gang of German prisoners, who had been doing some path-making about the camp, were forming up under their escort ready for the march home to their barbed-wire camp across the fields; our car was unloaded by orderlies, whose first care was to get the patients to the receiving-shed, where their names and particulars were taken, and then on to the refreshment buffet. For the first step towards curing a wounded man at this medical post, as at all previous posts, seemed to be to feed him - very sound treatment, too, so the wounded appeared to think. Within half an hour sick and. wounded alike were snug under blankets.
A casualty clearing-station was the nearest medical post to the battle-front that had something of the permanence and the resources of a real hospital. This casualty clearing-station covered several acres of ground. If 5 buildings were all huts or canvas marquees, it is true, but in them was to be found the most complete surgical and medical equipment, even to X-ray department, pathological department, and the rest. Here also for the first time on the Via Dolorosa which the wounded man followed to get from the front to his home, were to be found women - British nursing Sisters. It was one of the greatest moments of that journey for the wounded Tommy - that moment when he met a British woman once more, perhaps for the first time after weeks and weeks in the trenches with not a soul within miles, either friend or enemy, but men.
The effect which this presence of their countrywomen had on the wounded struck me as remarkable. I watched friend Oldham being carried into his ward. He was tired and inert. As the men orderlies attended to him he lay listless and irresponsive even to pain when they moved him. The lamps were just being lit. He took no notice of anything. Then a Sister came quietly into the ward. At the voice of a woman speaking English, Oldham's eyes opened wide at once; he raised his head from his bed to see who had spoken. Other eyes than his opened too. Of the new patients in that ward there was not one save those already asleep who did not become agog with interest at the sound of an Englishwoman's voice. They followed her about the ward with their eyes. She stood still when her work was done and spoke to the soldier in the bed nearest her. They waited for three or four minutes and one could see the interest of the wounded man in his steadfast gaze upon her. There was a pause in the talk, but he still looked at her. Then feeling perhaps that some little apology for this was due from him, he said : "Do you know you're the first Englishwoman I've seen or heard speak for over forty weeks."
I had a word or two with her later: She was a comely, motherly woman of thirty-five or so. "The Tommies seem interested to find their countrywomen here Sister," I said.
“Yes," she replied, "it's funny, isn't it ? I don't think there are many new patients come along here from the front who don't pass some remark to the Sisters to show that they are glad to see us. They will watch you all round the ward and some of them, if you don't happen to speak to them, will speak to you, just asking you some little question or other. They like to keep us talking. We've all noticed it. Poor fellows, they tell us sometimes that it does them more good than medicine to see an Englishwoman again and I am sure it's not just soldier's blarney you know, because they are so serious and polite to us and tell us about their homes and their wives and mothers and sweethearts. Perhaps it is that the sight of women again makes them think of home and makes them forget for a time the dreadful things they have been seeing and feeling out yonder." She nodded her head in the direction of the German lines, whence the sound of gun fire came now faint and distant.
When Sister had left the ward I walked over to Oldham's bed. I had noticed his interested eye on Sister and me as we had stood talking. "It looks a bit more like civilisation to see an Englishwoman again, doesn't it ?" I said, being anxious to know what he thought of it.
"By gum, it does that there !" he said warmly. "Makes you kind of feel," he said, with pent brows that showed something of his effort to express his thoughts - "makes you kind of feel - " He stopped. He was very weak and worn. His nether lip trembled for a second like that of a little boy and. tears rolled down his cheeks. Poor lad.
An orderly came bustling along with an extra blanket and without looking at the patient's face, he went through several bustling manoeuvres with especial vigour, I thought. " Now you're more in parade order, my son," he said, as he finished. "Give us a shout if you want anything !" I was standing at the foot of the cot looking about the canvas ward, so as not to seem to see the patient's little lapse. The orderly stood by me and with his back to Oldham said in a low voice: "I seen him upset 'isself, sir. They very often breaks down for a minute just when they arrives. I never lets on I sees 'em, but just finds a bit 0' somethink to do about their beds, breezy-like, you know, sir, and you talks a bit to 'em, breezy-like and they pick up in a second. When his wounds is redressed, you won't hear so much as a mew from 'im, no matter how we hurts him. I expect, sir, it's just the hit of 'omesickness breakin' out of them when they're weak-like!”
The point apart from its greater size and better equipment, that distinguished a casualty clearing-station from earlier medical posts on the road home was that it was, generally speaking, on a railway. It was intended for the surgical treatment and the safe housing of wounded until such time as they were fit for sending back to their units, or for transport to some hospital of a more permanent nature. A railway ran alongside the casualty clearing-station of Puchevillers and as I walked round that side of the camp with the commanding officer, an ambulance train shunted slowly into position in the nearest siding, ready to take down to the coast a new load of wounded. It was a train of great length - seventeen long coaches in all - and they were coloured a pale khaki brown and a deep brown, almost black, with red crosses on a white ground coming at frequent intervals on their sides. The train seemed empty, but my guide climbed up to the door of a coach on which were painted the letters "C.O." (commanding officer) and along the narrow corridor inside the coach we met that officer himself coming out to meet us. He wore the three stars of a captain, as did also his assistant, a young man perhaps half his age. The older officer had been a lecturer and examiner in medicine at one of the leading universities of Scotland and now after twenty odd years spent in turning out medical men and officers for the R.A.M.C. he had left this work to come out and "do his bit " as an officer himself. One of the many oddities of his position was that men whom he himself had trained were now in the Service high above him. Some of them had to give him orders-for which in some cases they apologised profusely - still calling him "Sir," as in their old student days.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 05:56:49 PM
Post by: timberman on November 15, 2009, 01:38:18 PM
________________________________________
PART NINE


Learning that I wished to travel in a train down to a "base" with a load of wounded, the train commandant pressed me very warmly to make my quarters with him until such time as the train should start, an offer of which I thankfully took advantage. I spent three days with that train as my home - most comfortable and most interesting days, too.
The train officers' coach was an English railway coach of the ordinary corridor type, but divided in the middle of the corridor by a door. At each end of the coach was a little sitting-room, and towards the centre were separate compartments, used as private bed- sitting-rooms by officers of the staff. The captain and his helper and I had one end of the coach up to the dividing door; the other half was occupied by the three nursing Sisters attached to the train staff. The forty or fifty male orderlies, nurses, cooks, etc., who constituted the remainder of the train staff were housed at the other end of the train. In the middle of the train were the kitchens and administration coaches. All the other coaches were "wards" for wounded and sick. The last coach of the train-that is to say, the one immediately behind ours - was the isolation ward for infectious cases, should there be any. Thus the medical men of the train and the Sisters could visit from their coach either the wounded wards or the isolation ward, whereas all the patients and orderlies were cut off front the isolation ward, unless they visited it by passing through the officers' and Sisters' quarters.
In these small but cosy quarters that night I dined excellently, chatted with the commandant, and slept. Sitting there on a bleak siding in that tiny cabin, with the wind playing shrill little tunes through our ventilators, reminded me very much of being quartered in a yacht lying in some harbour or quiet waterway. Just before turning in that night I did look out of the window half expecting to see water about us; but the moonlight shone only on the quiet siding and the casualty clearing-station round about us, upon the wet canvas tents of which it threw a faintly glimmering sheen like that of shot silk. Once in the night a train passed us, front which came the murmur of innumerable voices and a most curious stamping noise, like the clumsy beating of many wooden drums. I leaned up on my elbow to see what made it. The train was full of soldiers. They were stamping their feet on the carriage floors to keep warm.
On the following day, after a breakfast of ration bacon - which stuck me as the best bacon I had tasted since the war made good bacon impossible for civilians - I looked more closely into that little city of tents and wood huts that formed the casualty clearing- station of Puchevillers. This was one of the normal casualty clearing-stations of our Somme front. There were special clearing-stations elsewhere for special types of casualty. For instance, stomach wounds all went direct from the advanced dressing- station or main dressing-station to a casualty clearing-station specially set apart for stomach cases head wounds all went to another casualty clearing-station direct. Other cases came to a clearing-station of the type of Puchevillers. The size of the place was considerable. It covered many acres of ground, and had its roads and cinder-paths laid out with all the trimness and permanency of a home hospital. There was a wooden pavilion, too, with a piano and a concert-room, from which as I passed it came the sound of a woman's singing. Practising for the camp concert tomorrow," my guide explained.
I looked in at the camp officers' mess that morning and was not sorry I had taken up quarters in the ambulance train; for the officers' mess-room was a tent - into which the cutting wind found innumerable entrances - warmed by one small stove. Lunch was just over and four or five medical men were huddled round the stove having a smoke before going back to their duties. Of what those duties consisted I could form some idea later in the afternoon when the commandant took me into the operating-theatre, a big marquee lit by a blaze of artificial light. Here three operations were being done at once. There were operating-tables for twice as many. The place reeked of chloroform. Three supine figures, partly naked, lay inert on tables. Sitting by the head of each was an anaesthetist, patiently dropping chloroform on to the mask that covered each gently moaning mouth. White-coated surgeons with bare arms and dark rubber gloves were cutting and probing and cleansing away the corruption caused by bullet and shell and bomb; white-robed nursing Sisters stood by with bowl and swab and other appurtenances of this craft ready for handing to the surgeon at even a nod from him.
I walked back from the operating-theatre to my quarters in the ambulance train with my respect-and distaste-for a surgeon's handiwork both enhanced. Poor Oldham was to go through something of the same sort later on but my resistance to chloroform fumes had not been sufficiently cultivated as yet to enable me to stop and see him through, as I had intended.
Rather did I feel that yearning for a cup of tea such as the sick and wounded Tommies felt, and I climbed from the siding into our railway carriage full of hope, for I had caught the passing glance of an orderly carrying a teapot. Alas ! it was going to the Sisters' sitting-room in that terra incognita at the other end of the coach. But I was in luck that day for on entering the commandant's cabin he informed me that I had been invited to take tea with the Sisters that afternoon. He himself took me along and presented me to them - Sister Paul, Sister Mahoney, and Sister Thompson.
Very shyly and very kindly they gave me tea from their excellent brew. This with their Garibaldi biscuits and Scottish shortbread proved an excellent antidote to chloroform fumes and surgical sights, and I found my joy in life slowly returning under their cheery stimulus.
Good, jolly women were those nursing Sisters, practical, natural and friendly as are most British women who have seen life and done things and faced the world. As I sat chatting with them it dawned upon me that, with the brief exception already noted, I had not spoken to an Englishwoman for five weeks, and I realised faintly some of that queer satisfaction which the Tommies showed when they came; after weeks of men and war, to set eyes on a country-woman once more.
The day of the train's departure came at last. A medical transport officer mounted to the footboard of our carriage and announced the news through the window.
“We'll make you half a cargo here,'' he said, “and then you can back up to Varennes for the rest of your load. You'll have something over four hundred in all 'liers and sitters.'
Everyone in the train seemed glad of the news, for pleasant idleness in a siding did not seem to appeal to them at all. "Oh, yes," said one of the Sisters to me, "we'd sooner be running with a load of patients than be standing doing nothing." People who are in love with their work can talk like that. Soon both the camp and the train were all activity. A big Belgian locomotive, in control of an English driver, backed slowly down on to us from somewhere and coupled up. Before long a new and pleasing warmth was creeping through the train front the steam-pipes in every coach. Big double doors in the centre of each ward-coach were thrown open. Train orderlies with masses of blankets, pillows, hot-water bottles, and cushions were scurrying along the train leaving little "dumps" of these things at the end of each coach. Other orderlies seized them and began the making up of beds on the iron-frame bedsteads that stood three by three, one above another, ship fashion, along the sides of the coaches. The kitchen coach was a pleasing litter of peeled potatoes and food tins, steaming coppers and roaring fires, with half a dozen men galvanised into double activity by sudden orders for lunch for four hundred in two hours time. Such an order would tax a shore hotel on the fringe of Covent Garden, let alone an ambulance train tucked away in a remote French siding where not even a loaf could be bought.
In the camp "ashore" things were just as active. I followed round one canvas ward-tent an orderly who was tying upon some patients' stretchers a little strip of red ribbon and on others a strip of white. I little thought that I was watching the distribution of pleasure and pain such as only a wounded Tommy can know. But the glittering, glad eyes of the lads who received a red ribbon and the smothered groans of those who were given a white showed me that the distinction was of great moment to these inert. One poor lad who had been leaning up in bed watching with feverish eyes the orderly with his ribbons and his written lists; fell back with a groan on seeing a white ribbon tied to the handle of his stretcher.
Oh; heavens I " he exclaimed, and then shutting his eyes he took no more interest in the proceedings. The red ribbon was the distinguishing: mark for patients who were to go on the outgoing train to the coast, perhaps even to "Blighty." The white was to mark those who were to stay behind. The soldier's only recompense for being wounded is to be sent home. To get the white ribbon, therefore, was hard.
Orderlies came info the tents in couples and carried out the stretchers bearing the red ribbons. There were great leave-takings. Some of the men had been as long as a fortnight at the clearing-station, and a fortnight in a sick-tent is the equivalent of months of ordinary life, especially so far as the making of friendships goes. "So long, old pal; better luck to you with the next train down. If I get 'dine I'll go and see your folks as I promised. So long, old lad." And a hand from a bed in the dimness of the tent waved to another hand that was waving from a stretcher being carried out towards daylight and the train, and perhaps "Blighty." Glad were the eyes of the men on those moving stretchers, but they left heavy, weary eyes in the tents behind them.
No sooner had the last "red " stretcher been borne on its way than from the other end of the tent, casually and as though by accident, strolled "Sister." She went round the beds doing little tasks and talking to the patients as she worked. It was by no accident that she came. I accused her later of a motive in coming. "Yes," she admitted with a smile, "I knew the last patient had gone, and I came along just to have a look at those who are left. Train time is one of their bad times, you see, when they are not going." Then she began to busy herself again with the patients. I don't know just how much or how important work those British nursing Sisters did at Puchevillers, but whether that work was much or little, important or trivial, their mere presence and womanly good sense and kindness were a tremendous help to the curative resources of the station. Let me say here, too, that right through our hospitals in France - and in Britain for that matter - good womanly nursing and sympathy, so far as I saw it, had everywhere a curative value that vied with that of any medicine. It was whispered to me in the base hospitals nearer the coast that Sisters and nurses were expected to be more "distant and dignified," that they were kept under a much stricter discipline, and that the reason of this was the number of distinguished visitors - women among them - who came to these places with a sort of policeman's eye for everybody and everything, especially for their fellow-women, the nurses and Sisters. If this accusation was true the Army. and the nation suffered a loss.
Outside the tent-wards orderlies were lifting the stretchers on to pair-wheeled, rubber- tyred ambulances. Upon one of these each patient was wheeled by an orderly along the smooth cinder-paths of the camp to the train siding. . Friend Oldham was there, all smiles and good spirits. Morning mist was on the ground, and it was cold and cheerless enough, but there was not a. man who did not look happy. And when they caught sight for the first time of the name of that simple railway siding, posted in white letters on a black signboard, more than one hand went up from under a stretcher coverlet and more than one throat raised a little shout of pleasure, for the name of that siding was "Blighty Junction."
The joke may strike one as simple enough, but to those poor lads it was priceless. "Blighty Junction !" they chuckled. "Very good, that is; very good!" And they continued to smile at the happy memory of it. Or was it perhaps at the happy memories and prospects it evoked?

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 05:57:18 PM
Post by: timberman on November 15, 2009, 01:39:39 PM
________________________________________
PART TEN


There were some handshakings, much shouting of "Good bye!" and "Good luck !" Patients had to shake hands with orderlies who had tended them, and there were one or two surgeons I noticed who had friends among the patients. ' I want to thank you for all you've done for me sir," I heard one lad saying to an R.A.M.C. officer who before he donned the King's khaki was a specialist of some repute.
"Oh, that's all right; don't speak of that," said the surgeon cheerily as he took the hand that reached out front under the coverlet and shook it. "Good luck to you, lad, and let me know how that leg of yours goes.” The boy was lifted into the train, and as his orderly tucked him into his bed the patient was saying: "What he done for me would have cost any civvy' (civilian) a hundred guineas no less. He never operates for less than that. Took my leg off for nothink, 'e did - for nothink. I meant shakin' 'ands wiv 'im afore I left."
The train was slowly on the move by this time. The steam of the engine added its whiteness to that of the mist, and the casualty clearing-station of Puchevillers was blurred out for us tent by tent as it were. The last figure I made out was an orderly with his wheeled ambulance empty going back towards camp. He turned to wave us another good-bye.
The casualty clearing-station at Varennes, which emerged suddenly from the mist, after an hour or two of slow running and stopping, was very like Puchevillers, but here they brought down the wounded men's stretchers to the train either by hand or loaded upon trucks on a hand railway. Three on a truck, laid crossways upon it, the wounded were rolled along rails made of wood, which left the camp by three paths, meeting the ambulance train at right angles. From here they were lifted into the train. To learn what the task of carrying the wounded is like I was allowed to take one stretcher along the little platform beside the train. Its occupant was a thirteen-stone Irish soldier. After going some fifty yards with him I realised better - and with aching arms - the work done in the trenches, where men might have to carry a wounded comrade for a thousand yards or more, and over rough ground and slippery mud instead of on a smooth plank platform, before they could put down their burden-to go back for another.
Before getting back into our carriage the train commandant and I had a word with the engine-driver, whom it was odd to see pull himself smartly to attention. Before - the war he had been a driver on a Midland Railway engine at Leicester and Derby, and when volunteer drivers were called for he had responded. He wore dark blue overalls and a peaked blue cap on which were the crown and the "R.E." of the Royal Engineers Corps. He dabbed a handful of oily cotton-waste into his pocket, I noticed, ere he saluted the commandant.
We steamed slowly away front Varennes in the half-light of a wintry afternoon. The guns up at the line were booming a dull and distant note, and as we crawled farther away they grew feebler and feebler, and finally faded out. Thus did we leave the war behind us at last and even to me, unwounded, its absence was a relief. For five weeks I had lived ever within sound of the guns and their rumbling drone, near or distant, and though one becomes used to their sound, the absence of it comes as a relief. To wounded men it is an especial relief. Medical officers at aid posts, advance dressing-stations, main dressing-stations and casualty clearing- stations alike, had assured me that of all the things a wounded Tommy resents most about these places is the fact that the guns and the din of battle can still be heard front them. Often, of course, the wounded lying in these places had to be carried down into cellars and dug-outs to avoid shell fire, and in their weak and helpless state this, I was told, annoyed them beyond measure.
The next coach forward from ours was the wounded officers coach. Half of it had been converted into a little saloon for use as a mess by "walking" cases, or “sitters," as they are called on the train. I looked in in the course of the afternoon, and found half a dozen or more officers pretty comfortable, reading, or sleeping in easy-chairs. One party were playing bridge. Farther along this coach were officers stretcher cases. Among them I found a young Flying Corps lieutenant, whose machine I had seen hit by a German "Archie" gun one day when I went into the trenches beyond Beaumont-Hamel. The engine of the machine had been carried away, and the machine had half floated, half fallen to earth. The airman was not hurt by the fall, which occurred, fortunately, just inside our lines, but a shrapnel fragment had hit him in the hack. He was very cheery, and we had an interesting chat.
He could have been hardly more than twenty. I passed through the kitchens on my way forward in the train, and the quartermaster, a genial Irishman, once retired but now returned to the Colours, invited me to sample some broth that was just being served out to the patients. It was made from tinned "Maconochie," with added water, seasoning, and beef-juice-and excellent fare it was.
As I stood taking my broth a bright little orderly caught sight of me as he dashed through the coach with a tier of mugs, and, pulling himself smartly to attention, asked: "Can you speak German, sir ?" If so, would I help hint with some sick German prisoners who were in his ward. He was anxious not to give them the wrong kind of food, he said, but to continue the diet they had been having in the casualty clearing-station. I went along with him and asked the Germans, of whom there were eleven, what each had been having to eat. There is, perhaps, no race which answers a question about food more readily than the German. Several robust-looking men among them said they had been having meat and chicken and bread and - as one man expressed it enthusiastically - "Alles was gut ist !” (everything that is good). Another poor soul in spectacles said he had been given only rice-pudding and milk, "for eating gave him great 'belly pains,' " he added, dolorously. He was a poor, feeble little fellow and had worked as a chemist in Germany. The war, he said, had undermined him quite. He was not strong before, but now he was like a gnat ("So wie eine Mucke"). He had been very kindly treated, he said, as a prisoner. Another of the Germans had been captured in Beaumont-Hamel. Our shell fire, he said, had been dreadful; but, as all the garrison were well underground, they thought to be able to hold the place. Their officers had said that the British were fools even to attack it, and had prophesied that we should have finally to leave off the direct assault and try some other means.
Cigarettes were being served out to the British soldiers by Sister Paul from a big tray. Before she came to the Germans I had handed them a few of my own, fearing that they would get none. The quartermaster passed at the time and said: "You needn't have done that, sir; we give them a smoke or two. All fare alike in this train, Germans and all. When a man's sick or knocked out of action that's excuse enough for treating him kindly."
Certainly the British Tommies who fought the Germans - and whose view ought, therefore, to count for at least as much as those of people who didn't fight him - always treated the German prisoners and wounded in a friendly way. In that train, though they could not speak together, they were exchanging friendly signs and nods. Some exchanged small souvenirs. One German soldier had a British bullet that had been taken out of his lungs. A British Tommy, who had come from the same part of the line, asked to see it. As he weighed it in his hand, looking thoughtfully before him, he said to his nearest pal: "It would be a very funny thing if I had shot that bullet; wouldn't it ? But who knows I didn't?" He looked at the German, who, of course, understood nothing. Then the speaker made a curious request to me: "Tell him what I have just said, sir.”
With some curiosity I translated for the German this odd speculation. He smiled and shrugged his shoulders, and replied calmly as he puffed at his cigarette: "That doesn't matter to me. Perhaps I shot him." Thus impartially and dispassionately was that give- and-take of war recognised by soldiers who had fought and suffered. It was something of a lesson, perhaps, for less tolerant people who have not fought.
Tea in the commandant's cabin that afternoon was a hurried affair for all save me. There was much work to be done, and I was left alone with my second cup. The lamps had been lit. Outside the weather was raw and dark, with some mist. The long, heavy train was rumbling rhythmically at a sober pace over the metals. The electric light in the white ceiling brightened and waned at slow, regular intervals. I sat back in the comfortable seat watching it, and with my mind wandering, dreamily perhaps, over the events of the day and that week, and earlier weeks. I had seen these young soldiers, or their kind, in the full vigour and rigour of war - war that admitted of no comfort, no softness, or even gentleness ; grim, hard, unfeeling war, coldly callous and horrible. Now these among them had got their quietus - some for a time, some for a longer time, some for ever - for not all among that trainful of wounded men would pull through. You would have thought to find them much subdued. I had looked for traces of this, and had seen hardly one. Even as I sat there they began singing comic songs. I walked along to the first ward- coach. A chorus song was in full progress.. The words of it struck me cold, They were Singing this :
I want to go home, I want to go home - I don't want to go to the trenches no more, Where jack johnsons Tumble, and whiz hangs galore. Carry me 0ver the sea Where the Ali-mans can't snipe at me Oh, my! I'm too young to die -I just want to go home!


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 05:57:52 PM
Post by: timberman on November 15, 2009, 01:41:09 PM
________________________________________
The Last, PART ELEVEN

A not. inappropriate song; you say, for wounded men to sing. True enough. But not as they sang it. They were singing it as a comic song, - with laughing faces. I stood, almost in horror, watching one poor wreck of humanity, whose face peeping from a mass of bandages was almost whiter. than his wrappings, as he sang "Oh, my! I'm too young to die ." actually with a happy grin, and with his one remaining hand beating time above his stretcher. He wore the dangerous case wounded ticket, red and white, and had death written all over hint. One of the surgeons who saw my fascinated gaze halted for a second as he passed me to say in a grim sotto voce, " He'll do well if he gets his wish."
"Shouldn't they stop him?" l asked.
"Not a bit of it,” he said cheerily. "That's the spirit that may help-him dodge death after all: I like to hear them." From this song they turned to queer songs of their own making, sung to hymn tunes - songs that scoffed at duty and war and death, and many serious things - in fun. Finding that they were in a mood for music, the ward Sister disappeared, and in a few minutes an orderly appeared carrying a gramophone and some records. Some light music and songs were played, and the men listened from their beds with keen attention. And then it remained for that gramophone to reveal in them their real nature - a gentler, deeper nature than that shown in their songs laughing at death. The orderly put on a record of a little violin and piano piece. The Sister had said it was getting -too late for more music ; it was bed-time. But in answer to several pleadings she had said they could play one more record if they chose a "quiet one" that would not disturb men who by now were ready for sleep. The piece opened with a haunting little melody, almost like a cradle-song.
The violin played the melody with its childish thirds and sixths, played it softly, wistfully, soothingly, naively (Fritz Kreisler, I think, was the player), and the piano accompaniment, coming faintly and with that strange elfin tinkle that the gramophone lends to the piano's tone, had about it a curious prettiness and sweetness like distant and tuneful fairy bells. The ward grew quiet; men who half an hour before had been singing a lusty defiance to all the gentler moods of life, listened now with rapt eyes and with faces curiously relaxed, like those of sufferers suddenly released from pain.
The second movement of the piece was struggling and fretful music. The men fidgeted a little and some closed their eyes. But the Opening refrain, in all its childishness, came back again before long, and again they listened-listened as a sleepy child to a mother's crooning. The piece finished. They did not speak. The instrument was picked up and carried away without one remonstrance. They did not even look; they lay there with closed eyes as though to keep with them for the night the visions and the thought- pictures to which that plaintive child-music had given rise. The lights were turned down.
Soon there was not a sound save an occasional sigh and the rhythmical rumble of the train over the metals. And I caught myself tiptoeing out of that coach as I might have done out of a children's nursery. Poor lads! Right through the livelong day they had been full of "go," "full of fight," full, even though wounded, of the healthy. animal spirits which the British soldier, like every healthy child, knows. But with the evening, and dark, and the coming of weariness due to their weakness, the softer, gentler side of their nature shone through-shone through at the subtle crooning of a gentle. bit of:. music. It might have been a mother song and they little toddling, sleepy tots again.
I asked the Sister later to show me the gramophone, for on it I had noticed a little brass plate and some printing. The printing said: "From Members of the Dunhill Parish Church, Dumbartonshire, Rev. Dugald Clarke, October, 1916."
I thought the givers of that gramophone and my unknown namesake the minister would like to know something of the pleasure they had given by their gift.
The train stopped during the night at the long, deserted platform of a deserted station, Abbeville, I think. The commandant jumped out and beckoned me to follow him. He walked to the front of the train before it had started again, boarded it and walked through, inspecting each ward and coach on his way. The patients were asleep. You could stand at the end of a ward-coach and count before you thirty-six beds, in threes, one above another as on board ship, and see in each bed some figure of pain. The dimness of the lighting seemed to make even more grotesque the strange and unnatural positions in which wounded men lie. Here and there an arm or leg extended from a bunk, and part way across the narrow passage between the beds. You had to walk carefully so as not to touch it and disturb the sleeper. You had to take care also not to tread on the men of the undermost bunks some of whom preferred to bang limbs or shoulders half out of bed and on the floor. "They find the position that is most comfortable," said the captain, "and we try to let them lie as they like."
Once, I remember, a battered and bandaged hand suddenly reached out - right in front of me as I -passed along the narrow centre aisle and hung most pleadingly and, so it seemed in the half-light, like that of a beggar in a Bible picture asking for alms. The captain had gone on in front. I thought the patient wanted someone to look at his hand, but a glance at his eyes showed me he was sound asleep. Involuntarily the paining limb had stretched out suppliantly, seeming to beg for itself for ease from its pain, to plead for itself while the owner slept. I took the hand and gently put it back across the patient's heaving chest and under the sling from which it had escaped. He sighed, but did not even open his eyes, then lay peacefully.
Unseen by me, the commandant had turned back to wait for me and had been watching me from the end of the coach. "We shall have to find you a job in the train's nursing crew," he said with a smile.
Near the door of the next coach Sister Mahoney was putting a hot-water bottle to a sleeping man's feet. The captain felt the man's pulse and asked her some questions. They spoke in whispers. On the corner of the man's bed hung the little red-and-white "danger" ticket. I recognised in the patient the singer of "I'm too young to die."
We reached the coast in the wee small hours. Motorcars in scores it seemed, and bearers in dozens, were there. By the wan light of white arc lamps the stretchers were lifted out of the train; some of the patients did not wake, and were carried over the cobbled streets of the old French town to base hospitals, there to rest till cured or till ready for sending oversea to that longed-for haven of all wounded, "Old Blighty." One glimpse of the busy workers and motormen and orderlies as friend Qldham was carried indoors to one of these hospitals, and I turned away. No need for me to describe a base hospital again. Oldham would be in safe keeping and would not be moved again for at least many hours. I should find him again. I walked back through the quiet streets;
No bed was to be had, but I slept quite soundly that night on a wooden form in the railway transport office at the station, with a small heap of railway guides for a pillow. The corporal in charge of the office, formerly a clerk at the Railway Clearing House; London, made me a sandwich and a cup of tea. A deep rumble shook my form an hour later. It was my ambulance train going back to the front for another load of wounded.
A big ship, painted a bright apple green and bearing on its side a mammoth Red Cross, waited at the quayside not many days later. Again the string of motor-ambulances, again the careful carrying of maimed men on stretchers, Oldham among them again.
And then the big green ship glided noiselessly away from the quayside of that old French port. She flew a red-and-white flag as the sign of her merciful calling, and when daylight ebbed at last and the sun sank into a mush of heavy brassy clouds away on the sky-line, she lighted up a girdle of green lamps about her waist - a girdle as of rich sparkling emeralds that enveloped her all about. Set among them on each side, as in rubies, were red lights in the form of the great Red Cross.
In the pallid light of an early morning a magic word went to and fro among the worn men who filled the cabins fore and aft of that apple-green ship. That word made lame men and sick men drag themselves up in bed on their elbows; it made men who could even hobble get out of bed to look out of the port-holes. And through those little brass-ringed circles of weather-smeared glass they gazed rapturously at the dark grey slabs of a dock wall, at the black-timbered walls and the wet, slate roof of some dock warehouse, at a dock crane with thin outstretched arm that reared backwards and upwards till lost to sight in the mist. The rain fell. Fog rose front the yellow-green water of the dock. An old man hobbled from under a shelter to a plump bollard near the dockside. He looked at the murky sky both to north and to south. Then into that dock he spat deliberately. That was what those worn soldiers gazed out upon through the little round brass-rimmed windows, and their eyes sparkled with moisture at the mere sight. Throats moved without words issuing forth, till at last pent-up feelings found vent in one hoarse murmur - "Blighty !”


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:00:37 PM
These are four pictures of the total destruction of Ypres.

First two

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:02:11 PM
Second two

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:06:49 PM
THE TERRITORIAL ARMY BATTALIONS OF THE MANCHESTER REGIMENT
A bit of history on the 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th and 10th Battalions

It is a pdf file. Don't know where it came from :)
hope it comes out alright can't find the PDF file so copied it
from my files.

Timberman

The tradition of a Corps of Volunteer Infantry in the Greater Manchester area can be traced to 1803 when the following were
established. They were gradually disbanded after the Napoleonic threat was over.
Loyal Wigan Infantry Hulme Volunteers M/cr. & Salford St George’s Volunteers 1st M/cr. & Salford 2nd M/cr. & Salford Ashton-u-Lyne Loyal Oldham
(Lt Col Earl of Balcarres) (Major Pooley) Volunteer infantry (Lt Col Philips) Volunteers Regiment Volunteers Volunteers
(Lt Col John Ackers) (Lt Col Joseph Hanson) (Lt Col John Sylvester) (Lt Col John Wood) (Lt Col John Lees)

THE TERRITORIAL ARMY BATTALIONS OF THE MANCHESTER REGIMENT
Lancashire Rifle Volunteer Corps
1859 21st LRV 6th LRV 40th LRV 33rd LRV 23rd LRV 31st LRV
(Absorbed the 26th, 46th, 55th (1st Manchester) (3rd Manchester) (Absorbed the 28th (2nd M/cr.),
60th, 67th, 76th, 91st) (1861 Absorbed the 43rd 70th, 78th, (4th M/cr.))
(Fallowfield)LRV)
1880 4th LRV 6th LRV 16th LRV 20th LRV 7th LRV 22nd LRV
1881/1889 Became Volunteer Battalions of the Manchester Regiment
1st Vol Bn 2nd Vol Bn 4th Vol Bn 5th (Ardwick) Bn 3rd Vol Bn 6th Vol Bn
1908 Re - designated Territorial Force Battalions of The Manchester Regiment
5th Bn 6th Bn 7th Bn 8th (Ardwick) Vol Bn 9th Bn 10th Bn
1914 To active service To active service To active service To active service To active service To active service
2/5th 2/6th 2/7th 2/8th 2/9th 2/10th
3/5th 3/6th 3/7th 3/8th 3/9th 3/10th
(Reserve) (Reserve) (Reserve) (Reserve) (Reserve) (Reserve)
1918/1919 Disbanded Disbanded Disbanded Disbanded Disbanded Disbanded
1920 Re-designated Territorial Army Battalions
1922 Amalgamated as 6/7th
65 A A Regiment Royal Artillery (Dec’36)
1939 To active service New 6th Battalion New 7th Battalion To active service To active service 41st Royal Tank Corps (1938)
To active service To active service
1941 111 Regiment RAC 41st Royal Tank Regt. (1939)
1942 2/9th
New 5th Bn To active service
88 ATK Regt. R.A.
Reformed (1947)
1946 Disbanded
Reconstituted as 1st Battalion Merged with 40th RTR (TA)
Following the 1st Bn’s capture Amalgamated as 1955
1967 HAA Regiment R.A. at Singapore Disbanded The Manchester Regiment (Ardwick & Ashton) Territorials
Merged with DLOY
1975 5th/8th Volunteer Battalion The King's Regiment
1999 C (King’s) Company The King’s & Cheshire Regiment
2006 D (King’s) Company 4th Bn The Duke of Lancaster’s Regiment
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:08:10 PM
The following is reproduced here with the permission of Martin Edwards and remains the

copyright of Roll of Honour. com 2002-2009

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/index.html


WARRINGTON, SACRED HEART ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH WAR MEMORIAL
World War 1 - Detailed information
Compiled and copyright © Stephen Nulty 2008



William HARDY
Private 201955, 2nd/5th Battalion, Manchester Regiment. Died 13th April 1917. Aged 19. Son of Henry and Emma Hardy, of 83, Cartwright St., Warrington. Buried in Bethune Town Cemetery, Ref. VI D 10.
Personal Information
Born – Warrington
Enlisted – Warrington
How Died – Died of Wounds
Theatre of War – France & Flanders
William’s birth was registered in the September quarter of 1897 in Warrington, Volume 8c, Page 256. On the 1901 census, he is shown as the youngest son, aged 4, of Henry (35, a Wiremill Labourer) and Emma (34) and lived at 14, Kean Street, Warrington . Also there were his brother John (11) and sisters Sarah (13), Elizabeth (7) and Mary (6).
Service Information
The battalion was formed at Wigan in August/September 1914. In November 1914 they became part of the 199th Brigade, 66th Division. They remained in Lancashire until about May 1915 then to Crowborough area. In March 1916 the battalion moved to Colchester, remaining here on Home Service until early 1917
In February 1917 the 2/5th landed in France. At the time of Pte. Hardy’s death, the 2nd/5th Manchesters were part of the 66th Division and were tied up in holding the line north of Arras. There are no records providing details of any specific actions taking place at that time, so it is likely that William Hardy was a victim of the daily trench warfare being fought at that time. Being recorded as Died of Wounds suggests that he was evacuated from the front line to a Casualty Clearing Station, where he ultimately died.
For much of the First World War, Bethune was comparatively free from bombardment and remained an important railway and hospital centre, as well as a corps and
divisional headquarters. The 33rd Casualty Clearing Station was in the town until December 1917. It is likely that this is where Private Hardy died.
Private Hardy’s Medal Index Card does not add much to his story, simply confirming his entitlement to the British War Medal and Victory Medal.
Newspaper Reports
The Warrington Guardian reported:-
“Official notification has been received that Private William Hardy of the Manchester Regiment, son of Mr and Mrs Hy. Hardy, 83, Cartwright-street, Warrington, was killed in action on April 13. Private Hardy, who was in his 20th year, had been at the front only six weeks. Before enlisting in May 1916, he was employed by the Whitecross Co. Ltd., An old boy of Sacred Heart School, he also attended Sacred Heart Sunday School. He was a member of the ‘Whitecross Own’ Troop, Boy Scouts.”

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:10:25 PM
Post by: timberman on November 26, 2009, 02:14:28 PM
________________________________________
The following is reproduced here with the permission of Martin Edwards and remains the

copyright of Roll of Honour. com 2002-2009

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/index.html

Richard HAMBLETT
Serjeant 6473, 2nd Battalion, Manchester Regiment. Died 23rd April 1915. Aged 36. Husband of Lucy J. Hamblett, of 38, Selby St., Warrington. Buried in Chester Farm Cemetery, Ref. I A 12 A.
Personal Information
Born – Warrington
Enlisted – Fleetwood
Residence – Warrington
How Died – Killed in Action
Theatre of War – France & Flanders
Richard’s birth was registered in the March quarter of 1881 in Warrington, Volume 8c, Page 199.
In the 1891 census, the Hamblett family are shown to be living at 13 Dutton Street, Warrington and comprises parents Richard (40, a bricklayer), his wife Ann (38) and children Mary Jane (19), James (18), John (12), Richard (10), Frederick (8 and Sarah (5).
By 1901, Ann is widowed and the family live at 9, Ellesmere Street, Warrington. There is an additional daughter Annie (9). Richard, now aged 20, is shown to be a Wire Rope Maker.
Service Information
On the 4th August 1914, the 2nd Battalion of the Manchester Regiment were based in Ireland and at 5.25pm they received orders to mobilise for active service. As part of the 14th brigade, 5th Division they left Ireland on the 13th August and arrived at La Havre on the 16th/17th.
They spent the next few months in the thick of the action, taking part in Battles of The Marne and Aisne, before the establishment of the trench lines and the beginning of the trench warfare which became so well known.
January 1915 saw the battalion back in billets at Dranoutre, being brought back up to strength with drafts from England. In the following months there was little activity but casualties continued to mount up as the battalion took its turn in the line.
In April the division moved to a sector on the Ypres front, taking a line east of the mound at St Eloi to the western end of Armagh wood, in preparation for the attack on Hill 60. The attack on Hill 60, which came to be known as the Second Battle of Ypres continued for three weeks. It was in this fighting that Richard Hamblett was killed. His body was recovered from the battlefield and he rests in Chester Farm Cemetery.

Newspaper Reports
The Warrington Guardian of 1st May 1915 reported,
 
LOCAL SERGEANT KILLED
FOUGHT IN SOUTH AFRICA WAR
Sergeant Richard Hamblett of the 2nd Battalion, Manchester Regiment, whose home was at 28, Selby-street, Warrington, was killed in action on April 23rd.
The news reached his wife, Mrs Lucy Hamblett, on Thursday morning in a letter from a comrade of her husband, Corporal Ferguson of the Battalion Headquarters. Writing on April 24th, he wrote, ‘I regret to inform you of the death of your husband, Sergeant Hamblett, who was killed facing the Germans on April 23rd. His loss is greatly felt by all who knew him, for he was a brave soldier and well liked.’
Sergeant Hamblett was the son of Mrs and the late Mr Richard Hamblett, He was 35 years of age and was a Special reservist. Sergeant Hamblett had just returned from his annual two months training when the war broke out. Until he was sent to the front three months ago, he was engaged in drilling recruits at Cleethorpes.
Sergeant Hamblett fought in the Boer War and earned his third stripe and also a medal with five bars. While in South Africa he contracted rheumatism and fever but recovered and was able to return home. Sergeant Hamblett , who leaves three young children, was employed by Messrs. J. Crosfield & Sons Ltd. He attended the Sacred Heart Church


Timberman

The picture is from my collection. Click on the picture to make it bigger.
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:11:18 PM
Post by: timberman on November 28, 2009, 11:49:10 AM
________________________________________

SCOTSMEN, MANCHESTER.
HC Deb 20 June 1939 vol 348 cc1997-8 1997
 
 Mr. Fleming
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he has considered the communication signed by the chair man of the Manchester Scottish Societies with reference to the formation of a Territorial Scottish battalion in that city; and what steps he intends to take in the matter?

 Mr. Hore-Belisha
It is not possible, at the present time, to fit into the organization of the Territorial Army a new Scottish battalion in Manchester, in addition to the battalions already authorised.

 Mr. Fleming
Is my right hon. Friend aware that already over 700 young men of Scottish descent have signed a requisition to form such a battalion in Manchester, so that after finishing their military training under the Military Training 1998 Act they can join a. Territorial Unit with a Scottish title?

 Mr. Hore-Belisha
There are plenty of vacancies for these 700 young men in Lancashire if they will join existing units.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:12:07 PM
Post by: timberman on November 28, 2009, 11:50:57 AM
________________________________________
SCOTSMEN, MANCHESTER
HC Deb 18 July 1939 vol 350 cc169-70 170

 Mr. Fleming
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that numbers of Manchester youths of Scottish extraction have expressed a desire to serve in a Scottish regiment under the Military Training Act; and what steps he intends to take to enable them to join a Scottish Territorial battalion on completion of their six months' compulsory service?

 Mr. Hore-Belisha
Where possible, militiamen are posted for their six months' training to the unit or arm of the Service in which they wish to serve. As regards the second part of the question, I would refer my hon. and learned Friend to the answer I gave him on 20th June last.

 Mr. Fleming
Will my right hon. Friend give his kind consideration to the very strong desire expressed by militiamen of Scottish extraction in Manchester, that on the completion of their Militia service they should have a chance of serving in a Scottish Territorial battalion in the Man chester area just as they do in Liverpool?

 Mr. Hore-Belisha
Men of Scottish ex traction will feel that desire whether or not they live in Manchester, and it would not be possible to start Scottish units everywhere, though I will give consideration to the wishes expressed by my hon. and learned Friend.

 Mr. Anstruther-Gray
Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that the London Scottish are a very excellent unit?

 Mr. Hore-Belisha
That fact has never been disputed.

 Mr. George Griffiths
Is it not the fact that there is now a Scottish Brigade at the Ministry of Health?

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:12:36 PM
Post by: timberman on November 28, 2009, 11:52:02 AM
________________________________________
SCOTTISH BATTALION (MANCHESTER).
HC Deb 28 September 1939 vol 351 cc1516-7W 1517W

 Mr. Fleming
asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is now in a position to make a statement as to granting permission to the citizens of Manchester of Scottish descent to form a Manchester Scottish battalion?

 Sir V. Warrender
I regret that I am not in a position to add anything to the answer which was given to my hon. and learned Friend on 20th June last.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:13:14 PM

PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)



Post by: timberman on November 28, 2009, 11:55:38 AM
________________________________________
VOLUNTEERS IN THE ORDNANCE SURVEY OFFICE.
HC Deb 20 March 1900 vol 80 cc1309-10 1309


 SIR BARRINGTON SIMEON (Southampton)
I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether, when the presence of men engaged in the Ordnance Survey Offices, who are members of the Volunteer Forces, is annually required in camp in order to promote efficiency, leave of absence is granted to them with the stipulation that they must make up the time lost; and, if so, whether, should the camp last for a fortnight as is probable this year, these employees will be necessarily engaged at work for an additional two hours per day for forty-four days to make up the lost time; and whether steps may be taken at once to place these men on the same footing as those employed by private individuals, who almost without exception grant the necessary leave of absence without deduction of pay.
 
 THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF AGRICULTURE (MR. LONG, Liverpool,) West Derby
The practice of the Ordnance Survey is substantially as stated by my hon. friend. The question whether Volunteers employed in the Government service on weekly wages should receive their civil pay when in camp or otherwise engaged on Volunteer duty is one which obviously should not be settled by reference to any particular Department alone, and I propose to bring the matter under the notice of my right hon. friend, with a  view to ascertain what is the practice elsewhere and what are the wishes of the Treasury respecting it. My hon. friend will understand that whenever civil assistants desire to devote their ordinary leave of absence to Volunteer work, every facility is given to enable them to do so.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:14:40 PM
Post by: timberman on November 28, 2009, 12:15:57 PM
________________________________________
BANTAM BATTALIONS.
HC Deb 01 March 1915 vol 70 cc570-1 570

 Mr. WATT
asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether the raising of a battalion of less height than the 571 regulations permit, namely, 5 feet 3 inches, has been sanctioned for several towns in England, including Manchester, Leeds, Birkenhead and Bury; whether this permission has been refused to the large Scottish towns, including Glasgow and Edinburgh; if so, will he say why this distinction has been made; and is he now prepared to put the two countries on an equal basis so far as the raising of bantam battalions is concerned?

 Mr. TENNANT
Permission to raise so-called "bantam" battalions in the English towns mentioned has been given, and similar permission has now been extended to Glasgow and Edinburgh.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:15:32 PM
Post by: timberman on November 29, 2009, 07:32:38 AM
________________________________________
Wiki: Court of Chancery
The High Court of Chancery was the court that developed from the Lord Chancellor's jurisdiction. Unlike the courts of law, which were rigidly based on formal causes of action, the Lord Chancellor had jurisdiction to determine cases, on behalf of the King, according to equity or fairness rather than according to the strict letter of the law. Gradually the rules of equity became formalized, but they preserved important innovations, such as injunctions and trusts (see equity.) Records of the court are kept by The National Archives.

ENLISTMENT OF WARDS IN CHANCERY.
HC Deb 20 March 1900 vol 80 cc1308-9 1308

 MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN (Kilkenny)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether, in the case of an infant, being a ward in Chancery, enlist- 1309 ing in the Army, and his discharge being demanded by the Court of Chancery, the War Office would discharge him.

 MR. WYNDHAM
A Ward in Chancery has, in regard to enlistment, no status differing from that of anyone else.

 CAPTAIN DONELAN (Cork, E.)
Is it not the case that the Court of Chancery possesses more authority over boys than their parents? Why do the War Office refuse to parents what they concede to the Court of Chancery?

 MR. WYNDHAM
I am not aware that they do.

 MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN
What is the law with regard to the enlistment of infants?

 [No answer was given.]

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:16:19 PM
Post by: timberman on November 29, 2009, 07:38:09 AM
________________________________________
Royal Military College.
HC Deb 01 March 1912 vol 34 cc1779-80W 1779W
 
 Major ARCHER-SHEE
asked how many candidates competed at the examination for admission to the Royal Military College at each of the last six examinations; what was the number of candidates appointed after each examination; and what was the number of commissions granted on probation, without examination, during each of the years 1909, 1910, and 1911?

 Colonel SEELY
The following number of candidates competed at the examination for admission to the Royal Military

College in—
November, 1911     268
June, 1911             305
November, 1910     222
June, 1910             312

In November and June, 1909, it was unnecessary to hold a competitive examination, as sufficient candidates failed to pass the qualifying examination required of candidates before presenting themselves at the second or competitive examination. The number of gentlemen admitted to the Royal Military

College during the last six half-years has been
February, 1912     179
September, 1911     232
February, 1911     167
September, 1910     235
February, 1910     176
September, 1909     204

The number of commissions on probation granted, in the years named, without examination, was—
   Household Cavalry.   Foot Guards.
1909   â€”                                10
1910               4                          9
1911               5                          7
Total               9                        26


The number of commissions granted in the Cavalry of the Line on probation (a leaving certificate being necessary) was:—
1909          4
1910          5
1911          9
Total        18

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:19:12 PM
Post by: timberman on November 29, 2009, 07:40:38 AM
________________________________________
MANCHESTER REGIMENT (LEAVE).
HC Deb 31 July 1935 vol 304 c2659 2659


 Major PROCTER
asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether, in view of the announcement by his Department that men of the 1st Battalion the Manchester Regiment, which is being transferred from the West Indies to Egypt, will not be granted leave when their transport touches Southampton, and the hardship thus inflicted on men who have been away for 18 months, he will have the whole question reviewed?

 The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the WAR OFFICE (Mr. Douglas Hacking)
The ship could not be detained in order to grant a few days' leave to the men without dislocating the trooping programme and causing expense to the taxpayer. It is hoped that some eight to ten hours will be available between the arrival and the departure of the ship, and arrangements are being made for a reunion of members of the battalion and their relatives and friends at the docks. I must point out that, since it is exceptional for a unit to touch English waters on its journey from one station abroad to another, this battalion may be regarded as fortunate as compared with the majority of units abroad.

 Major PROCTER
Can the right hon. Gentleman say what the expense would be for granting leave to these men, who have been abroad for 18 months?

 Mr. HACKING
The expense for the detention of the ship alone for four days would be £1,200. But that is not the only factor. It would be impracticable to give these men leave for that short space of time.

 Major PROCTER
Does the right hon. Gentleman not think that a cost of £1,200 would be well worth while?

 Mr. SPEAKER
That is a matter of opinion.

 Â© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:20:28 PM
Post by: timberman on November 29, 2009, 07:41:48 AM
________________________________________
MANCHESTER REGIMENT (REPAYMENTS).
HC Deb 06 August 1940 vol 364 c19 19

 Mr. Burke
asked the Secretary of State for War why non-commissioned officers of the Manchester Regiment, who were derated solely because Regular Army non-commissioned officers were drafted to the battalion, are having to pay back from their present privates' pay money which was paid them for acting as non-commissioned officers?

 Mr. Eden
I have ascertained that, in four of the five cases concerned, the soldiers have now been granted war substantive rank which cancels the over-issues. The fifth case is still the subject of inquiry, but I have given instructions that no recovery is to be made.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:20:59 PM
Post by: timberman on November 29, 2009, 07:44:13 AM
________________________________________
SALISBURY PLAIN MANŒUVRES— COMMISSARIAT BREAKDOWN.
HC Deb 21 June 1900 vol 84 cc621-2 621

 MR. HOLLAND (Yorkshire, W.R., Rotherham)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been called to the breakdown of the commissariat of the Manchester Volunteers on the occasion of their recent encampment on Salisbury Plain, whereby the men were practically without bread for two days, receiving in substitution hard biscuits which required a hammer to break them; and whether, in consequence of the general dissatisfaction of the men with their food arrangements, supplies were subsequently obtained from their friends at home; and, if so, whether he can give the name of the officer responsible for this state of things, and undertake that steps shall be taken in future to avoid its recurrence.

 MR. WYNDHAM
Three of the four battalions of the Manchester Volunteer Brigade at Salisbury Plain did not employ the Government bread contractors, but made their own arrangements. The private contractors partly failed to carry out the supply, and 6401b. of the biscuit ordinarily issued to the troops was supplied from the Government stores to make up the deficiency. Nothing is known of any supply from friends at home, some 250 miles distant.

 LORD BALCARRES (Lancashire, Chorley)
Does the hon. Gentleman wish the House to understand that the regiments which had to get their food through the War Office made no complaint? That certainly is not the case.

 MR. WYNDHAM
I did not mean the House to understand that. It is not in my power to give any such information. The deficiency arose out of private contracts entered into by Volunteer brigades this year as hitherto, and not through any default on the part of the authorities.

 LORD BALCARRES
Is it not the fact that the quartermasters of many of the regiments were directed by the War Office as to whom they were to apply to for food, and that they were really not given a free hand?
 
 MR. WYNDHAM
Another question raises that issue. In respect to bread and meat the Volunteers were allowed to exercise the discretion they enjoyed before, but in respect of canteen stores that was not always the case.

 CAPTAIN NORTON (Newington, W.)
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether it has been brought to his notice that some of the Volunteer battalions encamped on Salisbury Plain are not permitted to make their own contracts and arrangements with reference to. canteens, as in former years, and that some are even compelled to deal exclusively with the Canteen and Mess Cooperative Society, Limited; and whether he will take steps to give to Volunteer battalions the same freedom of choice in connection with this matter as heretofore.

 MR. WYNDHAM
For military reasons it was considered expedient to form a district contract for all units encamping on Salisbury Plain. The board to select the tenders was composed of one Regular, four Militia and four Volunteer officers; and two contractors, viz., Messrs. Dickeson and Sons and the Canteen and Mess Co-operative Society, were selected.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:22:38 PM
DECEASED OFFICERS' WAR MEDALS.
HC Deb 21 June 1900 vol 84 cc620-1 620


 GENERAL RUSSELL (Cheltenham)
I beg to ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether, seeing that it is the custom to send to relatives of officers who have died on service in the field the medals to which these officers have become entitled by that service, he will explain why the Sudan Queen's medal has been refused to an officer who lost his life in the 1896 campaign on the Nile.

 MR. WYNDHAM
My hon. and gallant friend probably refers to the case of Captain Fenwick, of the Royal Sussex Regiment, who died in the Dongola Expedition of 1896. For that expedition no Queen's medal was granted.

 Â© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:23:53 PM
Post by: timberman on November 29, 2009, 07:48:51 AM
________________________________________
MANCHESTER REGIMENT (BAND BOY SHOT).
HC Deb 05 December 1922 vol 159 c1491 1491

 Sir W. DAVISON
asked the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he has any information as to Band-boy J. Cooper, of the 1st battalion of the Manchester Regiment, who was kidnapped in Southern Ireland some months ago and has since been reported as an absentee; and what action the British Government have taken to ascertain the fate of this boy serving in a British regiment?

 Mr. ORMSBY-GORE
I regret to state that the inquiries which have been made into this case leave no room for doubt that this youth was shot by members of the Irish Republican Army a few days before the conclusion of the Truce on 11th July, 1921.

 Sir W. DAVISON
Has anyone been brought to justice for this dastardly act?

 Mr. ORMSBY-GORE
No, Sir.
 Mr. J. JONES
What about the murders in Northern Ireland: there have been hundreds of them?


© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on January 26, 2018, 06:24:32 PM
Post by: timberman on November 29, 2009, 07:50:32 AM
________________________________________
TRAINING OF CADET CORPS AND BATTALIONS
HL Deb 16 December 1902 vol 116 cc1295-312

PART OF THE DEBATE

 THE EARL OF HARDWICKE
I come now to the request that Militia officers appointed to cadet battalions take rank according to the date of their appointment to such battalion. I confess I do not proposal is. No expense, of course, is involved. I do not think, military authorities could grant it, and if they did I do not think any Militia officers would join cadet battalions. A Militia officer joining a cadet battalion remains an officer in the Militia, and he does not join the cadet battalion for any other purpose except that he wishes to encourage these boys and has probably been applied to by those who are interested in the battalion. I can hold out no hope that the request contained in this paragraph will be granted. Then the noble Earl asks that sanction shall be given for the enrolment of cadet corps. I presume that the noble Earl wishes the age reduced so that lads can join between twelve and eighteen years of age.

 THE EARL OF MEATH
The idea is that they should be able to receive the capitation grant, and retain it the same as they do in cadet corps when they reach the age of seventeen.
 
 THE EARL OF HARDWICKE
I am afraid I can hold out no hope that that will be granted. At the same time, it is a point that shall have very full consideration. The last request submitted by the noble Earl is that serviceable arms shall be served out to the full establishment of cadet battalions, and not to 50 per cent, as at present. I would point out that there is no demand for such a step. Take, for instance, the 1st Manchester, with a total strength of 547 boys. They only applied for fifty rifles. I think it is hardly reasonable that we should be asked to supply, at enormous cost, serviceable rifles to every boy in, a cadet battalion when an important battalion like that of the 1st Manchester only requires 50. I think it is obvious that a great many of these cadets are very young and cannot carry a large rifle, and to issue serviceable arms to boys of twelve and thirteen years of age, would be, in many cases, a waste of money.
I am afraid the noble Earl may think that I have treated him somewhat unsympathetically and given him little encouragement, but what little hope of assistance I can hold out I have kept to the last. The noble Earl has pointed out that these lads, after leaving cadet battalions, join the military forces of the country. The military authorities will, I feel sure, be prepared to go a long way in assisting these cadet corps if they can be assured that they tend to increased efficiency of the forces, and especially of the regular forces. Some of these boys join various branches of the service, but we are particularly interested to find out how many join the regular army. I have the figures of one battalion. During the eighteen mouths ended September, 1902, 301 recruits who had been members of cadet battalions joined the regular army. I have no returns with regard to other battalions. We understand that these boys who had gone straight into the regular army have proved smart, and very quickly become efficient soldiers; and it will be a matter for the consideration of the Secretary of State and the Commander-in-Chief whether or not it will be possible to offer a bounty on every boy who goes into the regular army. That bounty would be paid to the corps, and would be a set-off against the expenses incurred. I think the noble Lord may entertain some hope that something of the kind may be done.

 Â© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 06, 2018, 09:04:01 PM
11thManchester Regiment

The following] letters have been received by Mr G. :C. Ormond '.relative to the death m France of his son Lieutenant Alick Ormond, who joined the llth Manchester’s. (1) France, 9th October, 1916. Dear Sir,— As officer commanding llth Manchester Regiment during the recent fighting at Pozieres I am writing to you about your son. He had only been with us a short time but he) greatly impressed me as< a man of character and- determination. He did splendidly and t have put his name forward to be mentioned m dispatches. If he had lived he would most certainly have) been given a Military Cross: which he richly disserved. It was in Stuff Redoubt that he was hit by a shell. The redoubt is north of Mouquet Farm. He and 12 men were placed at ' a veiy important point repeatedly attacked. They never gave in though only five came through.
Yours faithfully, I. F. Oliver, Commanding, Major.

(2) llth Manchester Regt., Oct. sth, 191. Dear Mr ormond,-r-Please forgive me for not having written to you before to convey to you my very deep sympathy m the death of your son Lieut. A. Ormond m action. During action my time was , fully occupied and we have been- constantly on the move ever since. Though your son had been with the :battalion orily a short time we all of us, I especially, had. come to like and respect him very much. It may interest you to know that he made his communion on the Sunday before ; he was killed. He, was a man m the very best sense of the word and we could ill afford to lose such a good officer. May God help you to bear your great loss. Yours very truly, E. A. Healop, chaplain.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 06, 2018, 09:08:58 PM
COURTS MARTIAL.
New Zealander, Volume 1, Issue 19, 11 October 1845, Page 4

COURTS MARTIAL.
The following is the result of the Courts Martial held at Aucklaud, on Lieut. Edward Barclay, and Ensign John Campbell : — (Extract from General Orders.) No. 154. Sydney, September 10, 1845. At a General Court Martial held at Auckland, New Zealand, on the 7th, and by adjournment to the 14th August, 1845, Lieut. Edward Barclay, of the 96th Regiment, was arraigned on the following charges, viz :— Ist.—" For in that he, Lieut. Edward Barclay, 96th » Regiment, did at Russell, Bay of Islands, on thr^ I Hh March, 1845, when engaged with the MaoriesjP in defence of that settlement, and whilst stationed with his men on a platform, where were posted a party of civilians and others, in charge of certain guns, shelter himself under an embankment, for the purpose of screening his person from the fire of the enemy." 2nd. — " For in that he, Lieut. Edward Barclay, 96' th Regiment, did at Russell, Bay ol Islands, oa the 1 lth March, 1845, when ithad been determined to evacuate that settlement, embark his detachment with undue precipitation, and before he had ascertained that the inhabitants and others under the military protection of his detachment, had beeu duly cared lor." 3rd.—" For conduct highly unbecoming in a British officer, in lhat he, Lieut. Edward Barclay, 96ih Regiment, did not at the time atid place aforementioned, when in command of the detachment to whom the military protection of the settlement at Russell, in the bay of Islands, was committed, display that zeal and energy in defence of the lives and properties of Her Majesty's subjects, which was required to support the honour of Her Majesty's arms." Upon which charges the Court came to the following decision :— The Court having maturely considered the evidence, in support of the prosecution against the prisoner Lieut. Edward Barclay, 96th Regiment; his defence, and the evidence adduced in support of it, is of opinion that With regard to the first charge, he the prisoner, Lieut. Edward Barclay, 96ih Regt., is Not Guilty, and do most fully and most honourably acquit him thereof. With regard to the second charge, that he, the prisoner, Lieut. Edwar^ Barclay, 96th Reg., is Not Guilty, and do most fully'ttud most honourably acquit him thereof. With regard to the third charge, he, the prisoner, Lieut. Edward Barclay, 96th Kegt., is Not Guilty, and do most fully and most honouourably acquit him thereof. Which finding, the Lieutenant-Ceneral Commanding is pleased to approve and confirm : aud directs that the officer commanding the troops in New Zealaud, will direct this officer to be released from arrest and to return to his duty, as soon after ibis general | order as circumstances will admit of. j At a General Court Martial held at Auckland, ' New Zealand, on the l'6th, an 1 by adjournment on the 18tli August, 1845, Ensign John Campbell, 96tb Regiment, was arraigned on the following charge, viz :— " For highly unofficer-like conduct, at Russell, Bay of Islands, on the I lth March, 1845, in that he, Eusigu John Campbell, 96th Regiment, did heedlessly and carelessly guard the blockhouse committed to his charge, and evacuate the same without sufficient cause, and without orders from his superior officer so to do. 1 ' Upon which charge the Court came to the following decision : The Court having maturely considered the evidence in support of the prosecution, together with what the prisoner has urged in his detence, is of opinion, that he, the prisoner, Ensign John Campbell, 96 1 h Keg., is Guilty of the charge preferred against him, with the exception of the word "evacuating,," of which the Court finds him Not Guilty, and acquit him of that part thereof, as it appears he was a"bsent from the blockhouse at the time it was surprised. The Court having found the prisoner, Ensign John Campbell, of the 96th Regiment, Guilty of the charge preferred againit him, with the exception of the word " evacuating," which being iii breach of the articles of war, do now sentence him, the prisoner, Ensign John Campbell of the 96th Regiment, to be severely reprimanded, in such manner, as the Lieut. General commanding the forces iv the Australian Colonies may direct. His Excellency the Lieut. General commanding is pleased to approve and confirm the foregoing finding and sentence : and Ensign John Campbell, 96th Regiment, is hereby reprimanded. Colonel Despard, commanding the troops in New- Zealand, will take an early opportunity of causing this General Order to be communicated to that officer, and release him from arrest. By Command, &c. (Signed) E. M. O'CONNELL, Major of B.igade.

© National Library of New Zealand

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 06, 2018, 09:13:03 PM
Manchester Volunteers' Camp Arrangement.
HC Deb 03 May 1904 vol 134 cc244-5 244
 
 MR. SCHWANN (Manchester, N.)
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that the mounted infantry company of the 2nd Volunteer Battalion Manchester Rifles having represented to the War Office that the Isle of Man, where the Manchester Brigade is going in Whit week, is unfit for the training of mounted men, the War Office have offered Liphook as an alternative camping ground for the company, and that the War Office have since intimated that if Liphook be chosen the company will receive no pay, and camp allowance for one week only, whereas if they go to the Isle of Man they will receive both pay and camp allowance for two weeks; and, if so, whether arrangements can be made for the company to go to a suitable training ground under the same conditions as to the Isle of Man, as they are anxious to make themselves as efficient as possible.

 THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. ARNOLD-FORSTER,) Belfast, W.
This matter has already been referred to headquarters by the General Officer Commanding concerned in the proper manner, and is now receiving consideration.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 06, 2018, 09:20:10 PM
Last survivor of 'Christmas truce' tells of his sorrow

The First World War's horrors still move us but one man recalls his moment
of peace amid the bloodshed

Lorna Martin, Scotland editor
Sunday December 19, 2004
The Observer

The words drifted across the frozen battlefield: 'Stille Nacht. Heilige
Nacht. Alles Schlaft, einsam wacht'. To the ears of the British troops
peering over their trench, the lyrics may have been unfamiliar but the
haunting tune was unmistakable. After the last note a lone German
infantryman appeared holding a small tree glowing with light. 'Merry
Christmas. We not shoot, you not shoot.'
It was just after dawn on a bitingly cold Christmas Day in 1914, 90 years
ago on Saturday, and one of the most extraordinary incidents of the Great
War was about to unfold.

Weary men climbed hesitantly at first out of trenches and stumbled into no
man's land. They shook hands, sang carols, lit each other's cigarettes,
swapped tunic buttons and addresses and, most famously, played football,
kicking around empty bully-beef cans and using their caps or steel helmets
as goalposts. The unauthorised Christmas truce spread across much of the
500-mile Western Front where more than a million men were encamped.

According to records held by the World War One Veterans' Association, there
is only one man in the world still alive who spent 25 December 1914 serving
in a conflict that left 31 million people dead, wounded or missing.

Alfred Anderson was 18 at the time. Speaking to The Observer, Anderson has
revealed remarkable new details of the day etched on history, including
pictures of Christmas gifts sent to the troops.

His unit, the 5th Battalion The Black Watch, was one of the first involved
in trench warfare. He had left his home in Newtyle, Angus, in October,
taking the train from Dundee to Southampton, then a ferry to Le Havre.

He was happy, healthy and surrounded by most of his former school friends,
who had all joined the Territorial Army together in 1912. In October 1914
they thought that they were at the start of an exciting adventure. But by
the first Christmas of the war they had already experienced its horror and
the death of young friends was commonplace.

On 24 and 25 December, Anderson's unit was billeted in a dilapidated
farmhouse, away from the front line, so he did not participate in any
football matches. 'We didn't have the energy, anyway,' he said. But he can
still recall vividly what happened on Christmas Day 1914.

'I remember the silence, the eerie sound of silence,' he said. 'Only the
guards were on duty. We all went outside the farm buildings and just stood
listening. And, of course, thinking of people back home. All I'd heard for
two months in the trenches was the hissing, cracking and whining of bullets
in flight, machinegun fire and distant German voices.

'But there was a dead silence that morning, right across the land as far as
you could see. We shouted "Merry Christmas", even though nobody felt merry.
The silence ended early in the afternoon and the killing started again. It
was a short peace in a terrible war.'

In some parts of the front, the ceasefire lasted several weeks. There are
also numerous trench yarns, some possibly apocryphal, about the impromptu
fraternising. One, detailed in Michael Jurgs's book The Small Peace in the
Big War, involved a young private who was led to a tent behind German lines
by an aristocratic officer and plied with Veuve Clicquot. In another tale, a
barber supposedly set up shop in no man's land, offering a trim to troops
from either side.

Now aged 108 and living alone in Alyth, Perthshire, Anderson still treasures
the gift package sent to every soldier a few days before the first Christmas
of the war from the Princess Royal. The brass box, which is embossed with a
profile of Princess Mary, was filled with cigarettes.

It also contained a cream card, with 1914 on the front, which says: 'With
best wishes for a happy Christmas and a victorious New Year, from the
Princess Mary and friends at home.'

'I'd no use for the cigarettes so I gave them to my friends,' he said. 'A
lot of the lads thought the box was worth nothing, but I said someone's
bound to have put a lot of thought into it. Some of the boys had Christmas
presents from home anyway, but mine didn't arrive on time.'

To his delight, he discovered that his most treasured possession - a New
Testament given to him by his mother before he left for France and inscribed
with the message: 'September 5, 1914. Alfred Anderson. A Present from
Mother' - fitted the box perfectly.

He kept both in his breast pocket until 1916 when a shell exploded over a
listening post in no man's land killing several of his friends and seriously
injuring him.

'This is all I brought home from the war,' he said, showing the box and
Bible, but forgetting about his beret with its famous red hackle, which is
the first thing you see when you step into his home.

There are still many aspects of the war that Anderson finds difficult to
talk about. 'I saw so much horror,' he said, shaking his head and gazing
into the middle distance. 'I lost so many friends.'

He recalled one incident that gave him a 'sore heart'. When he was first
home on leave, he visited the family of a dead friend to express his
condolences. He knew them well but soon realised that he was getting a
frosty reception. 'I asked if they were going to ask me in and they said no.
When I asked why, they just said, "Because you're here and he's not". That
was awful. He's one of the lads I miss most.'

Two years ago Prince Charles paid him a private visit after learning that he
had served briefly as batman to the Queen Mother's brother, Captain Fergus
Bowes-Lyon, who, along with hundreds of Mr Anderson's regimental colleagues,
was killed at the Battle of Loos in 1915.

The seemingly invincible Anderson, who was awarded France's highest honour -
the Légion d'Honneur - in 1998 for his services during the First World War,
was recently in the rare position of witnessing one of his six children's
golden wedding anniversaries. His children, he said, five of whom are still
alive, are what keeps him going.

Alfred Anderson has spent 90 years trying to forget the war. But it has been
impossible. So on Saturday he will look back. 'I'll give Christmas Day 1914
a brief thought, as I do every year. And I'll think about all my friends who
never made it home. But it's too sad to think too much about it. Far too
sad,' he said, his head bowed and his eyes filled with tears.

Timberman

Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 06, 2018, 09:29:01 PM
LEE-METFORD RIFLE (MANCHESTER VOLUNTEERS).

HC Deb 25 February 1897 vol 46 cc1135-6 1135

SIR WILLIAM HOULDSWORTH (Manchester, N.W.)

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War when the Lee-Metford rifle will be received by the Manchester Volunteers?

 MR. BRODRICK
The Manchester Volunteers will be supplied with the Lee-Metford rifle during the next financial year, and as soon as possible after the 1st November next.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 06, 2018, 09:41:46 PM

PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)




RETURN OF TROOPS—MANCHESTER VOLUNTEERS.
HC Deb 03 May 1901 vol 93 c592 592
 
 MR. SCHWANN
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that Manchester furnished many Volunteers from the Volunteer Medical Staff Corps and bearer companies of the 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 16th Volunteer Rifle battalions, all of whom were attached to the Royal Army Medical Corps; and whether these medical Volunteers can be sent home at once, as they have more than completed their year of service, and many are losing their appointments in Manchester owing to the prolonged delay in their return.

 MR. BRODRICK
As I have repeatedly stated to the House, special consideration has been and will be shown in individual cases of hardship reported to the Commander-in-Chief in South Africa by commanding officers. I am not aware that the position of these Medical Volunteers is different from that of the other Volunteers, who undertook to serve for one year or the end of the war.

AN HON. MEMBER
I suppose their loyalty is evaporating.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 10:12:41 AM
SUPPLY—ARMY ESTIMATES. VOLUNTEER CORPS.
HC Deb 07 June 1861 vol 163 cc778-820 778

 House in Committee.
 Mr. MASSEY in the Chair.
 (In the Committee.)
 Motion made, and Question proposed, That a sum, rot exceeding £133,276, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge of Volunteer Corps in Great Britain, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1862, inclusive.

Part of a long debate


MR. DEEDES
said, the Committee that sat upon the Yeomanry had to consider the smallest amount of expense at which that force could be kept in a state of efficiency. They recommended a reduction under the head of contingencies, in consideration that the Government would allow and pay a drill sergeant for each troop. The hon. Gentleman who had brought forward this 803 proposition (Mr. H. Berkeley) complained of the inefficiency of the Yeomanry when they went out for duty; but the hon. Member now proposed to take away the chief means they had for increasing their efficiency. He should like to have the hon. Gentleman down at Dover with him for drill for eight days, and he had no doubt he should be able to work a great change in the hon. Gentleman, The reason why the Yeomanry were paid when upon permanent duty was, that they were then taken away from their homes, and incurred considerable expense on account both of themselves and their horses. The sum allowed was only 7s. per man; but he could state that it cost the members of his own regiment, when assembled for training, 12s., 13s. 6d., or 14s. per man per day. For the voluntary drills, which also impose some expense upon the members of Yeomanry corps, no allowance was made. He was sorry that this question had been mixed up with the discussion of that which had been so we'll introduced by his noble Friend (Lord Elcho) in all of whose recommendations he concurred. He could not agree with his hon. Friend (Sir William Miles) that the Government had to choose between the Yeomanry and the Volunteers. The duties of the two forces were perfectly distinct, and need not at all clash with each other. He acknowledged the advantage which Volunteer corps had derived from the appointment of adjutants to administrative battalions by the Government; but he thought that the attaching a sergeant to each company, or to two companies, as might be convenient, would be of infinitely greater service. He thought assistance should be given not in money but in kind. He trusted the Yeomanry force would have the confidence of the country, that it would be found increasing, and he for one should be prepared to vote an increased sum, if necessary, to keep it in a state of efficiency.

 MR. TURNER
said, there was an observation made by the hon. and gallant Member for Beverley (Major Edwards) which he could not allow to pass without some remark. The hon. and gallant Gentleman stated as one of the distinguishing services of the Yeomanry that, in 1819, Manchester was saved by the Yeomanry of Cheshire. It was very true that the Yeomanry of Cheshire attacked a peaceful assembly of persons who had met together to declare their want of bread and of representation. The people complained of 804 want of representation, and that want had been supplied, in part at least, by the Bill of the noble Lord the Member for the City of London; and they were crying for bread, and that want was supplied by the policy of the late Sir Robert Peel, and the repeal of the corn laws but the charge of the Cheshire Yeomanry had created a feeling of ill-will which was not yet allayed. The people of Manchester did not look on Rifle corps with ill-will, though there were now regiments both of Foot and Mounted Rifles. They regarded them with feelings of cordiality and good-will, knowing that they had no disposition to suppress the feelings of their countrymen, even though these might be clamorously expressed, but were united with the sole purpose of defending the country against a foreign foe.

 MR. CAYLEY
admitted that the reference of the hon. Member for Beverley (Major Edwards) had been a little unfortunate, but wished to say that the discontent referred to by the hon. Member for Manchester (Mr. Turner) was caused, not by the price of food, which at the time did not exceed 42s. a-quarter, but was consequent on the want of employment occasioned by the Bill of 1819. The hon. Member had made an invidious reference to the cost of the Yeomanry, and to their not paying their own expenses. He should have remembered, however, that the Manchester Mounted Rifles were on the spot, and consequently required no payment; but the Yeomanry had in some cases to be moved thirty or forty miles to their duty. Moreover, as there were but 500 Mounted Rifles in the whole of England, it would be poor policy on that ground to deprive the country of the services of 14,000 or 15,000 Yeomanry. The sneer of the hon. Member for Manchester and the jokes of the hon. Member for Bristol would be estimated, no doubt, at their proper value by the noble Lord at the head of the Government, who, he trusted, would give due weight to the speech of the noble Lord the Member for Haddington, so admirable and comprehensive in all its parts. He did not think undue assistance was asked on behalf of a force which had enabled the noble Lord the Foreign Secretary—to whose policy he gave his entire approbation—to maintain language more emphatic that British Ministers could previously have held. The Committee should bear in mind that Volunteering, which was a relaxation in towns, was, in fact, an addition to the labour of persons in the country; and it required all the influence of country gentlemen to insure its being introduced with anything like success.

 SIR JOSEPH PAXTON
said, that he, like so many other hon. Members, felt great satisfaction at the able speech of the Member for Haddingtonshire, and fully concurred in the opinion he had stated, that without some further assistance the Volunteer force could not be maintained in its present state of efficiency. In the country districts in particular, where there was great difficulty in forming full companies, he thought there must be a great defection from the ranks unless they were supplied with the means of learning their duties with less expense. He thought that some erroneous views were held with regard to the sum of money which was claimed for providing for the proper custody of their arms. It was not intended that the money was to be paid to each Volunteer; and, even if it was, did any one suppose that Volunteers would be less independent because the Government povided them with armouries, practice ranges, and more efficient means of studying drill? The noble Lord (Lord Elcho) had seemed to lay the chief stress upon the formation of Volunteer corps in towns. On this point he (Sir Joseph Paxton) was at issue with him, believing that if the entire force was to be efficient, and was to possess a national character, it must be largely made up from the rural districts. He had made some calculation as to the sacrifices which those who joined the corps were required to make, and he had brought out the following results. The Government required that a man should undergo every year twenty-four days drill before he could be considered efficient; and starting on that date a man with an income of £150 a year would pay £11 10s. 6d.; a man with £100 a year, £7 13s.; and man with £75, £6; £50, £3 14s.; and £36, £2 16s. In the country districts they would find very few with an income of £150, and it was quite out of the question that without the assistance of Government the corps could be maintained in those places. He supported the movement on national grounds, but he also supported it because he believed that it would ultimately tend to economy in their Army Estimates.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 10:13:25 AM
Volunteer Training—Recruits and Trained Men.
HC Deb 10 August 1904 vol 140 cc14-5 14


 MR. PIRIE (Aberdeen, N.)
To ask the Secretary of State for War, with reference to the Volunteer battalions who were trained in the Field Army for a fortnight during the season 1903, can he state what proportion of the Volunteers, exclusive of officers and non-commissioned officers, were respectively recruits, trained men returned efficient once, and trained men returned efficient more than once.

(Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster). The statistics available do not show the exact figures required by the hon. Member's Question, but the attached table, showing the number of enrolled members (including officers and non-commissioned officers) in their first, second, and later years of service of those battalions which formed part of the Field Army during the training period of 1903 and trained for a fortnight, will give 15 information of a kindred nature which it is hoped will be sufficient—
                                       1st Year.   2nd Year.   3rd and subsequent years.   Total.
Southern District—           
1st V.B. Hampshire Regiment          319              204                       984                   1,507
Home District—           
12th Middlesex V.R.C.                   91               61                       663                     815
16th Middlesex V.R.C.                   88               68                       778                     934
2nd London V.R.C.                 146              125                       761                   1,032
2nd V.B. Middlesex Regiment         120                35               634                     789
1st V.B. Royal Fusiliers                 131              143                       717                     991
3rd V.B. Royal Fusiliers                   89              111                    701                     901
4th V.B. Royal West Surrey
Regiment                                  258                76               737                   1,071


North-Western District—           
1st V.B. Manchester Regiment   186                127               833                   1,146
2nd V.B. Manchester Regiment   206                241               907                   1,354
4th V.B. Manchester Regiment   204                151               967                   1,322
5th V.B. Manchester Regiment   105                121               677                      903
1st V.B. South Lancashire Regiment   254                153               576                      983
2nd V.B. Cheshire Regiment           203                191               612                   1,006
1st V.B. Royal Welsh Fusiliers           310                226               709                   1,245
1st Hereford V.R.C.                   301                127               695                   1,123

Scottish District—           
Queen's Rifle Volunteer Brigade*   386                301            1,474                   2,161
4th V.B. Royal Scots                   259                  97               552                      908
5th V.B. Royal Scots                   177                140               836                   1,153
1st Roxburgh and Selkirk V.R.C.   140                166               616                      922
1st V.B. Highland Light Infantry.   161                105               799                   1,065
3rd V.B. Highland Light Infantry.   193                 78               754                   1,025
1st V.B. Gordon Highlanders.           302                 80               554                      936
1st V.B. Royal Highlanders.           173               209               527                      909
9th V.B. Royal Scots                   121                 88               507                      716
2nd V.B. Royal Scots Fusiliers           201               106               534                      841
 

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 10:14:23 AM
Soldiers in Hospital.
HC Deb 06 July 1905 vol 148 cc1321-2 1321

 COLONEL DENNY (Kilmarnock Burghs)
To ask the Secretary of State for: War what percentage of total strength of such of the battalions serving at home 1322 of the following regiments were in hospital during the year 1904: Royal Scots, Royal Highlanders, Manchester Regiment, Devonshire Regiment, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Royal Irish Rifles. Royal Munster Fusiliers, and of the List Grenadier Guards, 1st Scots Guards, 1st Coldstream Guards, and Irish Guards.

(Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.) The required information is follows:—
 
Regiment.   Percentage of constantly sick.
1st Battalion Grenadier Guards   9.12
1st Battalion Coldstream Guards   3.96
1st Battalion Scots Guards   4.02
Irish Guards   5.09
1st Battalion Royal Scots   4.09
2nd Battalion Devonshire Regiment   2.62
1st Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers   1.98
1st Battalion Royal High landers   2.96
2nd Battalion Manchester Regiment   1.94
4th Battalion Manchester Regiment   3.06
2nd Battalion Royal Irish Rifles   4.21
2nd Battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers   â€ 1.41

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 10:15:04 AM
Manchester Volunteers' Camp Arrangement.
HC Deb 03 May 1904 vol 134 cc244-5 244

 MR. SCHWANN (Manchester, N.)
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that the mounted infantry company of the 2nd Volunteer Battalion Manchester Rifles having represented to the War Office that the Isle of Man, where the Manchester Brigade is going in Whit week, is unfit  for the training of mounted men, the War Office have offered Liphook as an alternative camping ground for the company, and that the War Office have since intimated that if Liphook be chosen the company will receive no pay, and camp allowance for one week only, whereas if they go to the Isle of Man they will receive both pay and camp allowance for two weeks; and, if so, whether arrangements can be made for the company to go to a suitable training ground under the same conditions as to the Isle of Man, as they are anxious to make themselves as efficient as possible.

 THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. ARNOLD-FORSTER,) Belfast, W.
This matter has already been referred to headquarters by the General Officer Commanding concerned in the proper manner, and is now receiving consideration.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 10:16:11 AM
First World War Casualties from Gas
              Nations                                                    Non-fatal   Deaths   Total Casualties
Commonwealth Forces
(Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, et al)   180,597   8,109   188,706
France                                                                   182,000   8,000   190,000
United States                                                        71,345   1,462   72,807
Italy                                                                     55,373   4,627   60,000
Russia                                                                   419,340   56,000   475,340
Germany                                                                   191,000   9,000   200,000
Austria - Hungary                                                        97,000   3,000   100,000
Others                                                                      9,000   1,000   10,000
Total                                                                 1,205,655   91,198   1,296,853

timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 10:16:42 AM
Coming next is a long debate on.

TRAINING OF CADET CORPS AND BATTALIONS
Dating from 16 December 1902

When the 1st Battalion of the manchester's had a total strength of 547 boys.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 10:17:18 AM
PART ONE

TRAINING OF CADET CORPS AND BATTALIONS

 16 December 1902 vol 116 cc1295-312 1295

THE EARL OF MEATH

My Lords, I beg to ask His Majesty's Government whether their attention has been called to a speech delivered at Pietermaritzberg, in Natal, on the 4th December 1900, in which Field Marshal Earl
Roberts said— It gave him great pleasure to learn that everybody in the Colony was compelled, at one time or another, to join the corps and learn the principle of discipline and how to shoot, should, unhappily, the occasion ever arise for them to do so. This was an excellent idea. and he would like to see the example followed throughout Great Britain and Greater Britain.
And whether Lord Roberts added— I hope the Old Country will follow the example of one of her children, and insist upon all boys joining cadet corps. I understand some of you have already been drafted into volunteer corps which have been engaged in the war. I can tell you that these corps have rendered magnificent service." Also to the evidence given by Lieut.-General Sir Ian Hamilton before a Royal Commission at Edinburgh, on the 19th September 1902. That if our boys were taught to handle arms, use the bayonet, march, skirmish, shoot, etc., they would be a great addition to our military strength. Young Boers between the ages of twelve and fifteen were little vipers, and had sent many a good man to his long account in their native land boys of fifteen would make excellent soldiers. After fourteen years, he would approve of a cadet corps being attached to every school. Also to the following General Order issued by General Lord Dundonald— who had special opportunities for studying the cadet system in Natal—on being placed in command of the Defence Forces in Canada:— The General Officer Commanding desires to impress upon all officers commanding districts and regiments the desirability of encouraging in every way the formation of cadet companies or battalions throughout these districts. And whether, in view of the above strong expressions of expert opinion as to the importance to the country of encouraging cadet corps and battalions, they will be prepared to consent to the following proposals, or to any of them, and, if so, to which, made to the Secretary of State for War on the 25th November 1902, by the Lads Drill Association, the Reverend C. G. Gull, Head Master of the Grocers' School, and by officers commanding cadet battalions and corps

1. That authority be granted for the formation of Public School Junior Volunteer Corps. in which uniform shall not be obligatory, but which in all other respects shall be on the same footing as cadet corps.
2. That the arms fitted with Morris Tubes at present supplied to public schools on payment be issued free.
3. That to junior volunteer corps as above defined D. P. arms be issued if applied for by the Commanding Officer in addition to the arms fitted with Morris Tubes.
4. That a free issue of Morris Tube ammunition be made to such corps on the same scale as is now made to cadet corps in public schools.
5. That the allowance now made to Volunteers attending camp should be made to all members of cadet battalions and companies.
6. That travelling expenses to and from camp should be sanctioned to cadet battalions and companies under the same conditions as to Volunteers.
7. That where the range accommodation possible for any cadet battalion or company necessitates a journey by rail the expenses should be borne by Government.
8. That officers in cadet battalions and companies who have duly qualified as such shall be eligible for the grant for uniform on the same scale as now sanctioned for Volunteer officers.
9. That an amount in the case of cadet battalions shall be provided to meet the pay of a sergeant major, and, in the case of cadet battalions of more than six companies, of one sergeant instructor.
10. That paragraph 37 of the Volunteer Regulations be modified so that cadet officers shall occupy in regard to Volunteer officers the same position that the latter hold in respect of Militia officers, namely. junior of their rank.
11. That Militia officers appointed to cadet battalions take rank according to the date of their appointment to such battalion.
12. That sanction shall be given for the enrolment of cadets in cadet companies on the same conditions as now hold good for cadet corps.
13. That serviceable arms shall be served out to the full establishment of cadet battalions and not to 60 per cent, as at present.


© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 10:17:55 AM
PART TWO

These are not very formidable requests, nor do I think it can be said that, if granted, they will seriously affect the finances of the country. The Secretary of State for War, in an official account that was sent to the Press of the interview which, on November 25th, he granted to the deputation mentioned in my Question, is reported to have said that the policy of His Majesty's Government in regard to Reserve forces was rather in the direction of efficiency than of numbers. That is a very excellent and laudable desire. I readily admit that efficiency with moderate numbers is more valuable than large numbers without efficiency. So far as I am concerned. I certainly have no desire to increase numbers at the expense of efficiency. I would be no party to any such policy of national suicide. On the other hand, with the experience of the South African war in our minds, can it honestly be said that the country, within the last three years, has found itself in the position of having at command too many soldiers?

I think I remember a time, not so far distant, when the Government were straining every nerve to get men to come forward,  and could not get trained men even though they offered five shillings a day. I do not think, therefore, that it is possible, even with the shortest of memories, for His Majesty's Government to assert that there are too many trained men at their command anxious and desirous for military service. The modern theory of military preparedness is that the country should possess a small efficient Army, capable of very rapid expansion. Now, the cadet system, in conjunction with a small efficient Army, exactly fulfils that condition. It provides immense reserves without the drawbacks of conscription. In modern warfare with civilized nations, one cannot separate the nation from the Army or the Army from the nation; the two must either stand or fall together. That has been proved often in the case of what may be called, comparatively speaking, small continental and oversea wars. The proposals contained in my Question all tend towards efficiency, and not towards a mere increase of numbers, and, therefore, they ought to be entirely in accord with the policy of His Majesty's Government, as expressed by the Secretary of State for War in November last. I trust, therefore, that the answer which I shall receive later on will be a favorable one.

In order accurately to appreciate the object and scope of these proposals, it is necessary to thoroughly understand the technical terms used in regard to cadets. The proposals do not affect in any way organizations such as the Church Lads' Brigade or the Boys' Brigade, which are supported for the moral, spiritual, and physical welfare of the lads who join them, and are in no sense military organizations. The organizations to which these proposals refer are strictly military, and are known by the names of cadet corps, cadet battalions, and cadet companies. Of these organizations there are in all 112, and of that number 101 are cadet corps, composed of lads belonging to the upper and middle classes who are at public schools. These 101 corps, with the exception of Eton and Harrow, are attached to local adult Volunteer battalions. The lads are permitted to join them at the age of twelve years, and  when they attain the age of seventeen, they are eligible for the Government capitation grant which is given to every efficient Volunteer. Until recently, the capitation grant went to the benefit of the Volunteer adult battalion, to which the cadet corps was connected, but by a recent concession, the money gained by these lads now goes to the cadet corps attached to the school.


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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:10:43 PM
PART THREE


EARL SPENCER

With the exception of Eton and Harrow.
 
THE EARL OF MEATH
Yes, with those two exceptions. These 101 corps, being composed of the sons of well-to-do parents, do not require, and do not demand, pecuniary assistance to any great amount, and I do not know that they desire any at the hands or His Majesty's Government. Therefore 101 corps out of the 112 do not ask anything from His Majesty's Government. But there are a larger number of public schools attended by the sons of respectable, if not well-to-do parents, who are unwilling or unable to provide their sons with the luxury of a uniform. They can manage to give them a good education, but consider that membership of a cadet corps is a luxury which they cannot afford. Consequently, there are a large number of lads belonging to the middle classes who have no opportunity of preparing themselves in any way for the military service of the country. The Lads' Drill Association, the headmaster of the Grocers School, and officers commanding cadet battalions and corps have therefore approached His Majesty's Government and asked whether they would permit corps to be formed in connection with these schools in which uniform should not be obligatory. They desire, also, that a free gift of arms should be made to them, and that they should have as much free ammunition as is at present given to the corps belonging to the richer public schools. These are not very great demands, and I trust that something may be done by His Majesty's Government to facilitate the training of those youths of the middle class, many of whom might attain a liking for the military profession and become very valuable officers in His Majesty's service. I have dealt with those corps which are formed of lads attending the upper middle-class schools.

I now come to those organizations which are called cadet battalions, of which there are only nine throughout the whole kingdom—four in London and five in the provinces. They are composed exclusively of working lads, who must be fourteen years of age before they are permitted to join them. They are not connected with Volunteer battalions, but are independent organizations, although they take their place in the territorial system. How is it that throughout the United Kingdom there are only nine of these battalions, which ought to be a great deal more numerous than the cadet corps? It is simply because they are expensive organizations, and the parents of the lads are unable to provide their uniforms and the other expenses. These corps are dependent on voluntary subscriptions; they are largely maintained by the officers, and great difficulty has been experienced in finding men sufficiently well off to become officers in these battalions. Each lad costs from £2 to £5 per head, according to what the commanding officer considers necessary in the shape of equipment, but £2 is, I believe, ample for the purpose. The organizations are far too costly ever to be numerous without State assistance, and five out of the thirteen proposals which I have laid before His Majesty's Government refer to these battalions. If we are ever to have our youth properly trained, and trained in any large numbers, it will have to be accomplished by means of these battalions. There is one other organization, called cadet companies There are only two companies throughout the United Kingdom, for the same reason that they are composed of working lads, and that it is impossible for the parents of those lads to find the necessary money. Like the cadet corps, they are connected with adult Volunteer battalions, and without State assistance they cannot possibly be increased.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:11:15 PM
PART FOUR

As I have said, the cadet corps, battalions, and companies together number 112, of which 101 ask for no assistance, but only for encouragement; the remaining eleven are bodies which need financial help. Of the thirteen proposals on the Paper, five entail no 1301 expense at all on His Majesty's Government. Last year, when the late Lord Frankfort de Montmorency introduced the Military Instruction (Schools and Cadets) Bill, Lord Raglan, who was then Under Secretary of State for War, asserted that cadet corps and battalions did not directly add to the defensive and offensive power of the kingdom, and that was his argument why no assistance should be given. Is it possible, notwithstanding the sad experiences we have gone through in South Africa, that his Majesty's Government think that no one can be counted as taking a really effective part in the defence of his country unless he is found in a Line regiment and actually drilled in the barrack square? We all know that if it had not been for the services of the Yeomanry and the Volunteers, both of the Mother Country and of the Colonies, many of whom had received at least a half-training, and many a great deal more, in their youth, we should have found ourselves in a much more difficult position, and in all probability the war would still be going on at the present moment.

The cadet corps do not provide a large number of the rank and file of the Army. It is not to be expected that they should, because they are recruited from the upper and middle classes But they do provide a large proportion of officers, and the cadet battalions provide, in proportion to their numbers, a very considerable number of rank and rifle. The colonel commanding the cadet battalion of the King's Royal Rifles informs me that 92 per cent, of his lads, on leaving him, join the Army, Navy, Militia, Yeomanry, and Volunteers, and that actually ninety-eight of his old lads, or 20 per cent., served His Majesty in South Africa. He confesses that the average from his battalion is higher than the average if you take all the nine battalions; but, taking the average of the nine battalions, you will find that 14 per cent, of the lads go to the Army and the Militia, 3 per cent, to the Navy, and 65 per cent. to the Yeomanry and the Volunteers, a total of 82 per cent. I think, after these very striking figures, it cannot be asserted that cadet battalions do not directly contribute towards the rank and file of the Army. I hope, therefore.
that I shall hear no more of the kind of argument used by Lord Raglan.


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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:11:41 PM
PART FIVE

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why His Majesty's Government should hesitate for one moment in encouraging and supporting the training to arms of the youth of this country. It cannot be denied that during the war men were sent out who could not shoot, who never made the least profession of being able to shoot, and who had probably never seen a gun before in their lives. Over and over again there were cases where untrained men were sent to South Africa who proved absolutely useless, and had to be sent back without ever having done anything in return for the heavy expenditure incurred upon them.

On the other hand, we all know what splendid service Lovat's Scouts performed. These men were not men who were found in the barrack yard, or who had been in the Regular Army; they were men who in their youth, had been trained to scout and shoot and look after themselves. They were notoriously the eyes and ears of the force with which they were connected, and it cannot be denied that if we train our you the in a somewhat similar way they would be of very much more service in time of stress than lads who had never used a gun. I am not asking for any large pecuniary assistance for cadets. If your Lordships look through the proposals on the Paper you will see that the sums needed are comparatively small; but, if I were asking for large pecuniary assistance, I should have the greatest confidence in doing so. because, I should feel that we were obtaining for our money a, sense of security which would be invaluable.

If it had been known in 1898 and 1899 that the lads of this country had gone through a course of training which enabled them to shoot straight, and to march and scout, I am perfectly certain that we should never have had a Boer war. There is an idea throughout the Continent that Great Britain is a powerful Colossus in some directions, but a Colossus with legs of clay, the clay being the want of smilitary defence. That has been proved to be a fallacious idea. It has been proved over and over again, that Great Britain has such resources that it has been able to contend against almost the whole world in arms. But, at the same time, there is sufficient truth in the idea to invite attack. But if we trained our youth to arms, and if it were known that our lads had had such a training and could shoot straight, we should not hear so much of rumours of war, and I believe firmly that we should be respected in a way perhaps that we are not now, and that we should be spared the expenditure of millions and millions of money.

We are set a splendid example in this direction by our Colonies, throughout the whole of which the cadet system is almost general. The value of the training given in our Colonies has been proved by the splendid services rendered to the Empire by the Colonial troops. His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales said in December, 1901, at the Guildhall— I am anxious to refer to an admirable movement which has taken strong root both in Australia and New Zealand, namely, the establishment of cadet corps. I had the gratification of seeing march past several thousand cadets who, at the expense of their respective Governments, are able to go through a military course, in some cases with an ample grant of ammunition. I will not presume, in these days of Army reform, to do more than call the attention of my friend the Secretary of State for War to this interesting fact. In New South Wales the Government give a capitation grant to cadets, and annually 30,000 lads are trained and turned out fit to defend the Colony, and, if necessary, assist the Empire in offensive and defensive operations. In Victoria, until the recent financial crisis, every effective cadet received ten shillings per head, and, in addition, from £3 to £10 per corps was given by the Government. Rifles, as well as ammunition and camp equipment, were given free, and free railway tickets to ranges were also provided.

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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:12:12 PM
PART SIX

In South Australia, Tasmania, and Queensland the system has been established, and is popular and progressive. In New Zealand, too, the cadet system has been received with enthusiasm. Arms and accoutrements are given free by the Government, and in no part of His Majesty's Empire has the movement been more taken up than by the Maories. In Natal compulsory service is the order of the day as regards lads, although I doubt whether there is one lad in ten who knows that it is  compulsory. From the ages of six to ten, every lad has to be drilled; at the age of ten he is compelled to join a cadet corps, and when ho reaches the age of fourteen he is compelled to go to the butts to learn to shoot. Can it be said that Natal would have made such a grand defence if it had not been for the fact that her sons had had this military training? Natal spends between £3,500 and £4,000 a year in this way.

I have quoted the opinions of Lord Roberts, of General Lord Dundonald, and of Lieut.-General Sir Ian Hamilton. If I had not felt that it would have unnecessarily added to the already lengthy extracts quoted, I should have given also the opinion of Lord Kitchener, but I think his opinion is well known. I trust that after this expression of expert opinion His Majesty's Government will take courage and grant the very moderate and economical proposals for the improvement of the cadet system of this country for which I ask—proposals which although they fall short of the steps taken, by our Colonies, will not, if granted, be without effect in strengthening the military power of the Empire.
 
THE EARL OF HARDWICKE

My Lords, the noble Earl stated in his concluding remarks that he hoped His Majesty's Government would take courage. I can assure him that I feel the necessity of courage to reply to the formidable looking question which he has addressed to me, and I do not think any of your Lordships can recollect ever having seen so long a question put to any member of the Government. The noble Earl asks, in the first place, whether the attention of His Majesty's Government has been called to certain observations by Lord Roberts, Sir Ian Hamilton, and Lord Dundonald. I do not know exactly whether the noble Earl asks if these speeches have been the subject of Departmental Minutes or have been circulated to the Cabinet, or whether he desires to know if the fact that the speeches have been made is within the knowledge of my right hon. friend the Secretary of State for War. If that is all he wishes to know, the answer is in the affirmative.

I can go further and tell the noble Earl that everything that Lord Roberts said in the speech referred to, and, I believe, everything that Sir Ian Hamilton and Lord Dundonald said, they believe now, and in similar circumstances would repeat them again. But if Lord Roberts or Sir Ian Hamilton were asked whether they consider that the training of these cadets is of such vital importance that part of the sums allocated by Parliament to the expenditure on the Army should be taken to meet the demands made by the noble Earl, I have not the slightest hesitation in saying that they would declare that they could not recommend such a course. Of course, if the resources of the Exchequer were unlimited, and if in peace time we could spend as much money as we liked on the Army, I am sure we should be most willing to meet, as far as possible, the requests of the noble Earl. The noble Earl suggests that the requests he makes for assistance from the Government do not involve a very large expenditure. I shall endeavour, in the course of my remarks, to show the noble Earl, and, I hope, to convince him, that he is not entirely accurate.


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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:12:49 PM
PART SEVEN

Reference was made to the system which prevails in the Colonies, and the encouragement which is given to cadet corps there. I would ask the noble Earl to allow me to call his attention to the difference in the military expenditure per head of population the Clolnies compared to the military expenditure per head of the population in this country. So far as the Colonies are concerned, they have practically no naval expenditure; on the other hand, we have a very large naval expenditure.

Canada has no naval expenditure at all, and her military expenditure is 2s. per head of the population. New South Wales has a naval expenditure of 81/4d., and a military expenditure of 3s. 5d.; Victoria has a naval expenditure of 1s., and a military expenditure of 3s. 3d,; Queensland has a naval expenditure of 1s. Id., and a military expenditure of 3s. 9d.; the Cape of Good Hope has a naval expenditure of 3 1/4d., and a military expenditure of 2s. 11d.; Natal has a naval expenditure of 31/4d., and a military expenditure of 5s. 1/34d. In this country we have a military expenditure of 14s. 13/4d. per head of the population, and a naval expenditure of 15s.; so that altogether we pay £1 9s. 1/34d. per head of the population in respect of 1306 naval and military expenditure, whereas no Colony pays more than Natal, which pays 5s. 5d. I do not think it is quite a sound argument for the noble Earl to advance that, because the Colonies have these cadet corps, therefore it is perfectly easy for us to spend the same amount of money and give the same encouragement.
The noble Earl mentioned a Bill that was introduced last session and referred to the arguments that were advanced by my noble friend and predecessor in office, Lord Raglan, against that Bill; and he stated that my noble friend replied that the Government did not consider that cadet corps could be looked upon as valuable for the defence of the country. That, of course, is perfectly true, and I support my noble friend Lord Raglan in what he said. The amount of money which this country spends on the Volunteers is gigantic, and I would like to give the House a few figures. The Volunteers, however, are men who are valuable in the event of an emergency arising. But no one suggests for a moment that these little boys should take up arms like the Boers in South Africa.
 
THE EARL OF MEATH

I suppose they will grow.

 THE EARL OF HARDWICKE
 
I suppose they will. But the point I wish to make is that in the system of this country we spend an enormous sum of money on the Volunteers, and if we were to treat cadet corps on exactly the same lines—

THE EARL OF MEATH

I do not ask that.

THE EARL OF HARDWICKE

With the exception of the capitation grant, I do not see a single point in which it differs. The general proposal is to place cadet corps on the same basis as Volunteers. In 1869 the Volunteers received a cash grant of £1.32; in 1899 it was £3.13; and at the present moment each Volunteer is costing £6 per head per annum. We are paying in cash, exclusive of rifles, permanent staff, and such like expenditure, £720,000 per annum for the Volunteers, whereas ten years ago we were only paying about half that amount.
I think the noble Earl will admit that we have done a great deal towards encouraging the Volunteers; and if he will allow me to take his points seriatim, I think I shall be able to show that the cost involved by his proposals is by no means small.
The noble Earl asks that authority be granted for the formation of Public School Junior Volunteer corps, in which uniform should not be obligatory, but which in all other respects shall be on the same footing as cadet corps. I admit that that question has very little financial effect. I believe that the only additional cost would be the charges for the instruction of such officers as might be granted commissions. But we have always understood that one of the inducements to boys to join these cadet corps was the uniform. If, however, the noble Earl is convinced that a uniform is not required, and that boys would be induced to join these corps if they were allowed to do so without the wearing of uniform being obligatory, I see no reason why the Secretary of State should not grant the request.

The noble Earl referred to the deputation which waited upon the Secretary of State for War in November last. Since that deputation was received careful consideration has been, and is being given, to the points which were laid before the Secretary of State, but it is quite impossible tonight for me to give any definite answer as to what we may be able to do. I think, however, I am able to give a definite answer as to what we shall not be able to do, but though I am, able to give the noble Earl a certain amount of encouragement I hope he will not take anything I may say as binding, but merely as our ideas as to the assistance which can be given these corps in the future. The second request submitted by the noble Earl was that the arms fitted with Morris tubes, at present supplied to public schools on payment, be issued free. The noble Earl has already stated that something has been done in this direction for certain corps. The difficulty we have in dealing with all these proposals is the impossibility of telling to what extent we may be committed financially. The noble Earl asked why there were not more cadet battalions, and he supplied the answer himself by saying that it was because no financial assistance was given by Government. He therefore implies that if financial assistance is given by Government the number of these corps will be increased, and, of course, if they increase, the financial obligations on the Government will increase also, and it is perfectly impossible for me, or any one. to tell how far we may be committing ourselves if we agree to supply free arms fitted with Morris tubes to all the corps that required them.


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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:13:35 PM
PART EIGHT

Taking the number of corps that exist at present the total value of 1,800 carbines and 1,800 tubes, and accessories, which would be required to supply the cadet battalions, would amount to £10,222. That, I say at once, is perfectly impossible to consent to. The third request submitted by the noble Earl was that D.P. arms be issued, if applied for by the commanding officer, in addition to the arms fitted with Morris Tubes. It is not clear exactly what is meant by D.P. arms, and whether carbines or rifles are intended. But taking the numbers in the cadet corps at present, and assuming that half of the boys in a school would join and. would require rifles, the number would be about 60,000, the value of the D.P. rifles would be £109,750, and the carbines £73,000.

THE EARL OF MEATH

Do you assert that there are 60,000 lads in middle-class schools of that character?

THE EARL OF HARDWICKE

Yes that is the number we assume. In fact, we think there would be more. The third request really hangs on the first. If authority is to be given for the formation of these corps without uniform, we can only calculate what our obligation will be by the numbers of boys in these schools. We calculate that if these boys were to form themselves into corps as suggested that would be the total number of rifles we might have to supply. As regards the fourth request—namely, that a tree issue of Morris tube ammunition be made to such corps on the same scale as is now made to cadet corps in public schools—that is also an expensive matter. The proportion of Morris tube ammunition is eighty rounds per member of a corps, and therefore for 60,000 scholars the total would come to 4,800,000 rounds, and that would cost £4,140 per annum. The fifth, sixth, seventh and eight requests of the noble Earl are clearly financial ones, and I have endeavoured to find out what the cost would be likely to be. These requests apply both to cadet corps and cadet battalions.
 
THE EARL OF MEATH
 
I beg the noble Earls pardon. They apply to cadet battalions and companies only.

THE EARL OF HARDWICKE

Taking requests numbers five and six, and assuming that allowances for regimental camps only are given—that is to say, 19s. for each boy and 52s. for each officer—the cost for 60,000 cadets would be £57,000, and for 750 officers, £1,950.

THE EARL OF MEATH

I am not asking this for cadet corps, but only for cadet battalions and companies—about 6,000 lads.

THE EARL OF HARDWICKE

The noble Earl asks that the allowance now made to Volunteers attending camp should be made to all members of cadet battalions and companies.

THE EARL OF MEATH

Yes, but not corps. There are only nine cadet battalions and two companies.

THE EARL OF HARDWICKE

I had taken companies as meaning corps. I will take the case of the nine battalions. I understand that there are about 5,200 boys in the cadet battalions and 200 officers. The total cost of sending them to camp would be £5,460 per annum. Them as regards the request that where the range accommodation possible for any cadet battalion or company exists within a journey by rail, the expenses should be borne by the Government, the cost of that would work out at £2,000.
I think, my Lords, that on these five heads I have shown that it would be impossible to grant the assistance asked for unless we were prepared to go to the Treasury for a very large sum of money. I admit that in the request that an amount in the case of cadet battalions should be provided to meet the pay of a sergeant-major, and in the case of cadet battalions of more than six companies of one sergeant-instructor, a very large sum of money is not involved. It would cost £1,080 for the sergeant-majors, and about £186 for instructors. The total cost of these proposals excluding the cadet corps, would amount to £9,200. Of course, as I have said, it is impossible to calculate what the cost of the cadet corps would be, because we do not know how many would be formed. The request that paragraph 37 of the Volunteer Regulations be modified so that cadet officers shall occupy in regard to Volunteer officers the same position that the latter hold in respect of Militia officers, namely, junior of their rank, has already been granted.


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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:14:14 PM
PLEASE NOTE
All of the information on this thread is taken from different sources most are copyright of groups or individuals, I have checked the use of sections on all the sites. I understand that if they are being used for non profit or non commercial use it is OK to put them on our site.
Please bear this in mind if you use any of the information on this thread.
Thank-you

If anything does infringe copyright let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I now have written permission to reproduce alot of the articles on this forum. The rest are covered by the statement above.

Neil (Timberman)


PART NINE 

THE EARL OF MEATH

I am very glad to hear it, but I venture to think cadet officers are not aware of it.

THE EARL OF HARDWICKE

I come now to the request that Militia officers appointed to cadet battalions take rank according to the date of their appointment to such battalion. I confess I do not proposal is. No expense, of course, is involved. I do not think, military authorities could grant it, and if they did I do not think any Militia officers would join cadet battalions. A Militia officer joining a cadet battalion remains an officer in the Militia, and he does not join the cadet battalion for any other purpose except that he wishes to encourage these boys and has probably been applied to by those who are interested in the battalion. I can hold out no hope that the request contained in this paragraph will be granted. Then the noble Earl asks that sanction shall be given for the enrolment of cadet corps. I presume that the noble Earl wishes the age reduced so that lads can join between twelve and eighteen years of age.
 
THE EARL OF MEATH

The idea is that they should be able to receive the capitation grant, and retain it the same as they do in cadet corps when they reach the age of seventeen.
 

THE EARL OF HARDWICKE

I am afraid I can hold out no hope that that will be granted. At the same time, it is a point that shall have very full consideration. The last request submitted by the noble Earl is that serviceable arms shall be served out to the full establishment of cadet battalions, and not to 50 per cent, as at present. I would point out that there is no demand for such a step. Take, for instance, the 1st Manchester, with a total strength of 547 boys. They only applied for fifty rifles. I think it is hardly reasonable that we should be asked to supply, at enormous cost, serviceable rifles to every boy in, a cadet battalion when an important battalion like that of the 1st Manchester only requires 50. I think it is obvious that a great many of these cadets are very young and cannot carry a large rifle, and to issue serviceable arms to boys of twelve and thirteen years of age, would be, in many cases, a waste of money.
I am afraid the noble Earl may think that I have treated him somewhat unsympathetically and given him little encouragement, but what little hope of assistance I can hold out I have kept to the last. The noble Earl has pointed out that these lads, after leaving cadet battalions, join the military forces of the country. The military authorities will, I feel sure, be prepared to go a long way in assisting these cadet corps if they can be assured that they tend to increased efficiency of the forces, and especially of the regular forces. Some of these boys join various branches of the service, but we are particularly interested to find out how many join the regular army. I have the figures of one battalion. During the eighteen mouths ended September, 1902, 301 recruits who had been members of cadet battalions joined the regular army. I have no returns with regard to other battalions. We understand that these boys who had gone straight into the regular army have proved smart, and very quickly become efficient soldiers; and it will be a matter for the consideration of the Secretary of State and the Commander-in-Chief whether or not it will be possible to offer a bounty on every boy who goes into the regular army. That bounty would be paid to the corps, and would be a set-off against the expenses incurred. I think the noble Lord may entertain some hope that something of the kind may be done.



                                               THE END


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Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:17:07 PM
Originally Posted by: timberman on December 13, 2009, 07:16:03 AM

Found on Flickr

This is from 1914, at the beginning of 'The Great War'. The back cover, which talks of 'The Race to Berlin' is a poignant reminder of a destroyed generation who thought they'd be 'home by Christmas'

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:24:07 PM
The tale of a modest hero - News - Salford Advertiser


The tale of a modest hero
Ailsa Cranna
March 19, 2009


SECOND World War veteran Edward Webb has finally revealed the full extent of his heroic action after more than 65 years.

Edward, 86, was awarded the Military Medal for fighting off scores of Germans at Villa Grande in Italy in 1942.

But for years the great-grandfather from Higher Broughton, Salford, kept quiet about his adventures.

It was not until his family uncovered details about his medal citation that the truth came out.

Now 65 years later he has returned to the 8th Manchester Regiment’s barracks in Ardwick Green, to re-live his story with other veterans.

It was in 1942 at Villa Grande, in Italy that Private Webb of the Eighth Manchester’s, armed only with a machine gun, single-handedly fought off enemy fire for three hours.

He said: "I remember seeing them but they didn’t see me. They hit all the others, nearly all of them were my friends so I did what I had to. It was tough."

After the war, Edward re-enlisted in the regular army, rising to the rank of sergeant and finally retired in 1967, going on to join the Territorial Army.

He steadfastly refused to talk about his war record and it was only when his late wife Lily wrote off for a copy of the medal citation 20 years ago that the family ‘secret’ began to come out.

His son Eddie, 57, said: "He always said ‘I’ll tell you when you get older son,’ and that was up until I was 50.

"Then, when his niece started looking up on the internet the full story came out.

"After he had fended off the Germans, his commanding officer was so impressed with his courage, he got 20 other officers to sign the papers recommending him for the Military Medal. When we walked in to meet all the other old soldiers at Ardwick, they started clapping.

"He didn’t realise it was for him - he’s so modest."

Edward received his medal from Queen Elizabeth, later the Queen Mother, in 1944 in a ceremony at Dunham Massey.

King George VI, who was unable to perform the ceremony, sent the war hero a personal letter.

Mr Webb was married to Lily for 54 years, until her death three years ago and they had three children.

Eddie Webb currently has the Military Medal and more of his father’s papers, and intends eventually to pass them on to the regimental museum at Ashton.


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:26:07 PM
Procedure for the Promotion of Colonels.

HC Deb 10 August 1904 vol 140 cc13-4 13

 SIR CARNE RASCH (Essex, Chelmsford)

To ask the Secretary of State for War whether the Promotion Board in 1899 recommended officers of the rank of colonel for promotion, from one selected list; and whether officers on this list, who held commands at home during the South African War but who lost promotion owing to Mr. Stanhope's proposal 14 not being carried out, will have their claims considered.

(Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.)
The procedure of the Promotion Board has always been to scrutinise the list of full colonels and to recommend selected names for advancement to the rank of major-general, but the list of selected names was always subject to revision from time to time by the Board. The functions of the old Promotion Board are now to be merged into those of the new Selection Board. It must be pointed out that officers who are now on the retired list can no longer be considered.

© Parliamentary copyright

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:26:44 PM
This is reproduced here from the MM section with Tonyrods permission.

051 Company Sergeant Major J. Ashworth, 24th Manchester Regiment
D.C.M. London Gazette 1.1.1919 14051 C./S./M. J. Ashworth, M.M., 24th (S) Bn. (P), Manch. R. (Oldham) (Italy).

''He has performed exceptionally valuable services as C.S.M. for over twenty months. Always courageous and energetic, he sets an excellent example to the N.C.O.s and men under him. During the offensive operations at Beaumont Hamel, 16th December-17th January; at Bullecourt, May-17th July; and east of Ypres, September-17th October, his coolness under the heaviest shell fire and his personal influence with his men were frequently and largely instrumental in the completion of urgent work. On several occasions during the period under consideration he was in charge of important wiring to No Man''s Land, south of Asiago, when his energy and determination contributed largely to the quality of the results achieved.''

M.M. London Gazette 9.12.1916 14051 Sjt. J. Ashworth, Manch. R.

14051 Company Sergeant Major James Ashworth, D.C.M., M.M., served with the 24th (Service) Battalion (Pioneers), Manchester Regiment in the French Theatre of War from 9.11.1915; his Battalion took part in the operations during the Somme offensive, including the attack on Mametz, 1.7.1916, where they were employed working in the communication trenches and strong points, and wired the whole of the front during the following night; later took part in 7th Division''s operations on the Bazentin Ridge, 14-17.7.1916; and the attack on High Wood, 20.7.1916; later worked on the roads in the Delville Wood area, and took part in the operations around Guillemont, 3-7.9.1916, before moving onto the Ypres sector. Awarded the D.C.M. for his gallantry during the Asiago offensive, serving with the 7th Division, which culminated with the Austrian retreat, 31.10.1918.

James ashworth, whilst commanding a platoon during the night of 1 – 2 September 1916, he was wounded in the leg and knocked down by a piece of shrapnel, but still carried on. He continued to supervise the work of his platoon until wounded a second time, when he had to be carried away. He returned to duty 16.09.16,

He was born 1890 and lived 36 Ogden st chadderton. He attended the 50th annual reunion when he was chairman of the old comrades association. He attended all the meeting except for one. 1950 – 1968, he was chairman from 1957, his address in 1964 was 35 parkway chadderton

this was passed on to me from davesmedals  from the British Medals Forum


Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:33:37 PM
SEPTEMBER 14, 1916.
Second Lieutenant CHARLES HERBERT HILLS, Manchester
Regiment, whose death is announced, was the Younger son
of Colonel E. H. Hills, C.M.G., F.R.S., and of Mrs. Hills, of
1, Campden Hill, W., and a nephew of Major ] . W. Hills
M.P. He was born on January 23rd, 1895, and educated at
Horris Hill and Eton.
After some months spent at the Agricultural College at Wye, he went out in July, 1914, to
the Orange River Colony to farm. He fought as a trooper in
Botha's Light Horse all through the rebellion. In September,
1915, he returned to England and joined the R.F.C.
In April he joined his regiment, the 3rd Manchester Regiment,
and at the end of July went out to the Front, where he was
attached to another battalion of the Manchester Regiment.

Name: HILLS, CHARLES HERBERT
Initials: C H
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: Manchester Regiment
Unit Text: 3rd Bn.
Age: 21
Date of Death: 05/09/1916
Additional information: Son of Mrs. Juliet Grove-Hills, of 1, Campden Hill, Kensington, London, and the late Col. E. H. Grove-Hills, C.M.G.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: I. A. 27.
Cemetery: DARTMOOR CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:34:25 PM
MAY 31, 1917.
Second Lieutenant E. W. LINDLEY, Manchester Regiment,
attached R.F.C. (reported missing on February 16th, now
reported died in German Field Hospital in France), was
younger son of Mr. and Mrs. E. T. Lindley, of Vambsry,
Norbury. He was 20 years of age, and had his commission
in the Manchester Regiment in July, 1915, being gazetted
flying officer in January, 1917.

Name: LINDLEY, ERNEST WILLIAM
Initials: E W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: Manchester Regiment
Unit Text: 9th Bn.
Age: 20
Date of Death: 18/02/1917
Additional information: Son of Edward Thomas and Margaret Elizabeth Lindley, of "Woodfield," Russells Crescent, Horley, Surrey.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: VI. G. 14.
Cemetery: BROWN'S COPSE CEMETERY, ROEUX

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:34:55 PM
Reproduced here with permission of Captain T J Robinson of the The Royal Canadian Regiment

"The Connecting File, regimental journal of The Royal Canadian Regiment"

All three parts can be found at this link

http://www.theroyalcanadianregiment.ca/history/1900-1914/manchester_draft1.htm

Part one

The Manchester Draft
The following three articles were published in the regimental journal The Connecting File in 1926 and 1937.  They describe how over 150 men and boys of the Manchester Regiment came to serve in The Royal Canadian Regiment.

Twenty Years Ago
The Connecting File, Volume V, No. 4; December 1926

On the 19th November, 1906, there landed at Southampton, from South Africa, about 500 officers, N.C.O.'s and men of the 3rd Bn. Manchester Regiment en route to the 2nd Bn. stationed at The Channel Isles. They were for disbandment under Lord Haldane's new army scheme.

About that time, Colonel Gwatkin, who was employed on the Staff at Ottawa, and was spending some time in England, thought that he would like to secure about 150 N.C.O.'s and men from his old battalion, the 3rd Manchesters whom he had commanded, to volunteer to go out to Canada, and reinforce The Royal Canadian Regiment stationed at Halifax.

Consequently after the usual formalities between the War Office and the Militia Council had been gone through, the Officer commanding the 2nd Bn. The Manchesters called for 150 volunteers.

About 180 responded, but that was too many and they were all assembled in the gymnasium at Fort George and an elimination contest took place which reduced the draft to about 160 all ranks.

They were given five weeks furlough, and were ordered to report at Ashton-under-Lyne barracks, on 7th January, 1907.

They left Liverpool on the S.S. Tunisian on 11th January, and arrived at Halifax, on 21st January, where they were met with the Band and a Guard of Honour from the Royal Canadian Regiment. The Officers accompanying them were Colonel Gwatkin and Lieut. Walkley.

The first impressions of Canada upon the minds of the draft were not very good as the streets of Halifax were covered with ice, and they had great difficulty climbing the hills to Wellington barracks, wearing ammunition boots with the usual hob-nails.

On arrival at Wellington they were soon made to feel as if they were at home and after being posted to their several companies, they were given a substantial meal, and were allowed to roam around barracks to get their bearings.

What a strange sight the Manchesters presented to The R. C. R. at that time with their "Broderick" caps and the broad twang of the Lancashire men.

About 21 men were posted to the band which brought the total to about 70 and many will remember their first parade on guard mounting when the whole battalion turned out to hear them. To-day there on only one man left in the band and he has been "beating it" for 20 years and that is Bandsman Gale. By the way how many of you remember the time when the band played One Officer and one man to church on Brunswick St. (Major Hemming and ex-Pte. Gade).

To the best of my recollections the following are still serving in the Regiment;

London, Ont., with "C" Company and Regt. Headquarters - Serjt. Pushman, Serjt. Stillwell, Cpl. Rigg and Bandsman Gale.

Halifax, N.S., with "A" Company and the Instructional Cadre, S.M.I. Irlam, C.S.M. Woodcock, C.S.M.I. O'Shea, Serjt. Instr. Forse, A/Sjt. O'Keefe. M. D. 7, with the Cadre, S.M.I. B. H. Hawkins.

Some of those in civil life residing in Halifax are Ex - C.S.M. Webb. (Buggy), Pte. Sole, Pte. O'Connors, Pte. Donnelly (the Biffer).

Congratulations to all those who will have completed 20 years' service with The Royal Canadian Regiment on 11th January, 1927.

Timberman
Title: Re: Snippets of the Manchester Regiment
Post by: timberman on February 08, 2018, 07:35:26 PM
Part Two

The Manchester Draft
The Connecting File, Volume XVI, No. 2; April 1937
(Note - The following is re-published from "The Halifax Herald" of the 21st January, 1937, by kind permission of Mr. R. J. Rankin, Managing Editor.)

EXACTLY thirty years ago, January 21, 1907, 157 young soldiers who had transferred from the Manchester Regiment of the Imperial Army, landed at Deepwater to continue their soldiering in the Canadian Permanent Forces, with the R.C.R. They had journeyed from Liverpool, England, on the Tunisian, and arrived in the Harbor on the evening of January 20.

The new Canadian soldiers were met at Deepwater by the band of the R.C.R., who played them to Wellington Barracks. The Draft presented a picturesque sight, all wearing Broderick caps, but the pavement was very slippery, and walking with hobnails on their boots and unaccustomed to icy conditions, the newcomers had a hard job to get to Wellington Barracks, via Cornwallis, Brunswick, North and Gottingen Streets.

There are only a few of the 1907 Manchester Draft in Halifax today. Among those left are ex-Company Serjt.-Major John Woodcock, Sam Street, orderly at Camp Hill Hospital, ex-Band Serjt. W. G. Gibson, W. H. Brocklebank, ex-Q.M.S.I. C. Shea, ex-Serjt. Paddy O'Keefe, Joe James, postal clerk, George Tanner, C. N. R employee, and "Biffer" Donelly.

The Manchester Draft was an acquisition to the R C. R, the majority of the young men who received their early training in the Imperials, gaining promotion. Two of the number, Company Serjt.-Major A. Stillwell and Pte. E. Rigg, are still in the R