The Manchester Regiment Forum

World War 2 => 1939 - 1945 => Topic started by: nightman on October 23, 2007, 04:13:51 PM

Title: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: nightman on October 23, 2007, 04:13:51 PM
Dear All, after my trip to the Netherlands the Kanselarij Der Nederlandse Orden can only provide a general statement about the award of the Bronze Cross by Royal Decree of 24th April 1946 nr.29 to the above named soldier. Would the Battalion War Diary contain any record of the action relevant to this appointment ? TTFN
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: harribobs on October 23, 2007, 07:43:01 PM
i don't know where you would go on with this, i know Roy did some research but i suspect it was for WW1 awards

have you got his records from the MOD?
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: nightman on October 23, 2007, 11:58:23 PM
Dear Minkey, travelled down the MOD road to no avail. despite sending them detailed enquiry I received what I would term a " general " photocopy  reply to a question I never asked and if I did want to buy more kites please get in touch with...............!  at some point though I will have to call it a day, but not just yet, toodle pip
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: Robert Bonner on October 24, 2007, 04:36:21 PM
This is a WWII award. 
Private Jackson was awarded the MM and also Mentioned in Despatches with the 1st Battalion for service in NW Europe.  Probably between September 1944 and January 1945. There is no mention of him in Bell's history - which does not surprise me.  He was not very good at mentioning individuals!!

What was the purpose of the original enquiry?
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: nightman on October 25, 2007, 12:08:21 AM
hello Robert, a pal of mine has the chap's Release Book but not a computer. Pte.Jackson has MM after his name in all instances it is recorded. Ashton -under-Lyne local history archive only has a Medal Card recording a MiD. Bell's book has him down for the MiD as a NWE award but also records him as already having the MM. His joining the colours is recorded  I believe, 1939. My only thought left is the War Diary. However, as I have never seen the contents of one of these I do not know how detailed entries are . I would have thought though that a MM would justify inclusion. That's the background
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: Robert Bonner on October 27, 2007, 04:15:53 PM
Even if you were able to trace the war diary for that period I do not think that it would help.  The war diary records the events of the day or week.  The fact that someone carries out an act of bravery or similar might be mentioned but that would be all.  To be given an award requires quite a lot of paperwork and after being started by the company commander or platoon commander, then has to work its way up the chain of command to a higher authority. The exception to that would be for an immediate award - again has be authorised by the appropriate higher authority.

There is still one 1st Battalion WWII MM recipient alive and I will try and find out if he can throw any light on Jackson.

Robert
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: nightman on October 28, 2007, 12:18:54 AM
hello Robert, thank you for that.   
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: nightman on October 28, 2007, 06:59:11 PM
P.S hello Robert , do you not find it strange in Bell's book that he lists Pte. Jackson as already a MM holder for the MiD's section and doesn't list him as a recipient for the MM NWE campaign ?    just a thought
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: Robert Bonner on October 29, 2007, 12:38:10 PM
Nightman.

You are quite right.  However Bell did have a number of problems in writing the history.  First of all he was a sailor!!

When he comes to WWII his history is more of an overall perspective of the grand military situation rather than a regimental history, apart from his descriptions of  the Dunkirk campaign where he drew on the recent memories of a number of those who had taken part. The feeling amongst most members of the Regiment at the time of publication was of disappointment.  Hence the need for people like Lieut Colonel Rex King-Clark to write his two books about the 2nd Manchesters and Kohima and the Burma campaign.

To be fair to Bell, he did not have access to the many official documents which are, even now, still being made available sixty years on.
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: themonsstar on October 29, 2007, 07:15:13 PM
He is not in the Honours & Awards 1937-1946 to any of the Manch Battalions for an MM, its only is Bronze Cross.
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: nightman on October 30, 2007, 11:58:46 PM
that's buggered that then !
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: nightman on November 07, 2007, 06:50:42 PM
It follows then that L/Sgt. Abram, S, M.M. 3710357 is also not listed in the Honours & Awards 1937-1946 to any of the Manchester Battalions
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: Robert Bonner on November 07, 2007, 08:56:20 PM
Lance Sergeant Abram of the 7th Battalion was Mentioned in Despatches (LG 9.8.45).  He is also recorded elsewhere as being awarded the MM  - but no verification.

Robert
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: Wendi on November 07, 2007, 09:11:02 PM
He is also recorded elsewhere as being awarded the MM  - but no verification.

How can that be ???

Wendi  :)
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: LarsA on November 07, 2007, 10:09:10 PM
Nightman,
PM sent, I believe the relevant date for J C Jacksons action which led to the bronze cross is 22 oct 1944, near S'HERTOGENBOSCH.

Kind regards
Lars
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: nightman on November 08, 2007, 01:55:07 AM
hello Lars, many thanks for your contribution. seeing that I am wearing my numbnuts hat you have thrown me a curver with "PM sent" It is something obvious which obviously escapes me. had to ask !
A pal of mine made an award enquiry to the Kanselarij Der Nederlandse Orden and they even supplied him with a photocopy of the original hand written letter from  his CO putting forward the nature of the recommendation. We are a bit nearer the finishing post, cheers
Title: Re: 3534561 Pte. J.C.Jackson, 1st Bn The Manchester Regiment
Post by: nightman on November 09, 2007, 01:52:12 AM
just twigged on, in my last post a bit of confusion ! with regard to my pals enquiry to the Dutch it was relevant to chap who was in KOSB not Manchester Regiment