The Manchester Regiment Forum

The Great War => 1914 - 1918 => Topic started by: BernardM on March 07, 2021, 07:10:54 PM

Title: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: BernardM on March 07, 2021, 07:10:54 PM
[img][/iInformation required as to the ribbons shown (4) on medal bar and anyother info on his service.mg]
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: charlie on March 07, 2021, 08:26:03 PM
Hello Bernard and welcome to the forum.
I‘ve moved your topic over to this section where it will get the right attention.

Sorry to disappoint you but your father is only wearing 3 ribbons, they are the 1914-15 Star, British War Medal and the Victory Medal ( which has a wider ribbon)

Your father also served with 10th Bn East Yorkshire Regt, his number was 30242. His Manchester Regt number seems very high for one issued in 1914 and I can‘t find him in the Manchester Regt 1914-15 Star medal roll either. Did he serve in another regiment?

Charlie
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: Tim Bell on March 07, 2021, 08:30:57 PM
Hi Charlie,
Could the third medal relate to Home Guard service?
Tim
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: charlie on March 07, 2021, 08:36:25 PM
Hi Tim,
No. The ribbons he is wearing are most definitely for the 1914/15 Star trio, which are recorded on his MiC.

Charlie
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: charlie on March 07, 2021, 08:51:28 PM
If he is wearing CD uniform the photo has to be post 1949 (the year the CD Corps was formed) and indicates he did not qualify for any WW2 medals. Are you sure it is a CD uniform.? A high resolution scan of the shoulder title would help to confirm the uniform one way or the other.

Charlie
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: charlie on March 07, 2021, 09:24:38 PM
After digging a bit further, there was a Civil Defence Service which was raised before WW2 and disbanded in 1945 so the the photo was taken before the WW2 medals were issued.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Defence_Service

Charlie
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: BernardM on March 07, 2021, 10:03:54 PM
Hi. My father George Madden was in the Civil Defence when the picture was taken in about 1943. As far as I am aware he joined the Manchesters in late 1915 or early 1916. I am aware of his transfer to the East Yorks with the No.30242. the mystery is about the fourth medal. I believe one of the medals is for his service in the CD. I only have his two WW1 ones as he wouldn't qualify for the Star.
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: mack on March 07, 2021, 10:31:25 PM
47319 george,edward madden
born 24-1-1894
worked for bagley+wright,industry mill,oldham as card and blowing room operative
203 horsedge rd,oldham
enlisted 10-12-15 but wasnt called up till 6-5-1916
11th manchesters
sent to france 30-12-16
invalided home 27-2-17 on the hospital ship dieppe suffering from rheumatism+pleurisy,admitted to st.lukes hospital,bradford
26-7-17 posted to 3rd manchesters at cleethorpes
returned to france 31-3-18 posted to 17th manchesters
transferred to 10th east yorks regiment 2-4-18
invalided home pleurisy+debility from the 2nd australian military hospital,france on 30-6-18,admitted to edmonton military hospital
sent to lancashire convalescent hospital,blackpool 27-8-18
discharged from the service 31-1-1919
medals war+victory medal
married miss beatrice tewson 1925
1930s lived at 10 high lee st,oldham
children terence
brian
bernard
christine

beatrice lost her only brother tom in the war,he served in 24th manchesters and then transferred to the labour corps,died of influenza on 4-2-1919 in france
resided 12 high lee st,oldham
28388 thomas tewson

george lost his younger brother pte 2596 frank,knox madden,killed in action 15th july 1916 with the 1st loyal north lancs,aged 20

mack

george+beatrice are buried in greenacres cemetery.section AB11.grave 39[george died in february 1945]

Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: Tim Bell on March 08, 2021, 07:28:36 AM
Great work Mack. 
I think Thomas Tewson warrants a new thread.  Bernard's uncle.
Tim
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: charlie on March 08, 2021, 09:39:48 AM
As he is without doubt wearing the ribbons of the 1914/15 Star trio, it looks like he awarded himself the Star. Provided he served long enough with the CD Service he would have been entitled to the 1939-45 Defence Medal.

Charlie
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: mack on March 08, 2021, 09:55:04 AM
the defence medal wasnt introduced until may 1945,sadly george had passed away in the february

maybe george like many other soldiers who enlisted in 1915 but didnt serve overseas till after 1915 thought he deserved the 1915 star,there were a lot of soldiers like him

mack
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: charlie on March 08, 2021, 10:01:55 AM
the defence medal wasnt introduced until may 1945,sadly george had passed away in the february
mack

Provided he met the qualification criteria before he died - 3 years service in the UK - it would been sent to his NoK.

Charlie
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: mack on March 08, 2021, 10:33:24 AM
the defence medal wasnt introduced until may 1945,sadly george had passed away in the february
mack

Provided he met the qualification criteria before he died - 3 years service in the UK - it would been sent to his NoK.

Charlie
i agree charlie but he wouldnt be wearing it in the photo,which means you are probably right about him wearing a 15 trio,it does look like  a 1915 star trio

mack
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: charlie on March 08, 2021, 10:55:04 AM
Sorry Mack, I misunderstood your comment  :)

Charlie
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: BernardM on March 08, 2021, 07:11:37 PM
Thanks for all the replies Charlie and Mack.
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: Tim Bell on March 09, 2021, 07:31:13 AM
A bit more record on George’s younger brother Frank:-
Frank Knox Madden was 18 yrs 54 days old and employed as a general labourer when he enlisted in the Loyal North Lancs (LNL) on 06/08/1914. Frank received the Number, 2596, as part of the 3rd (Special Reserve) Bttn of the LNL.  He trained with 3/LNL and  transferred to 11th Reserve (New Army)  Bttn on 30/01/1914.
Frank disembarked in France on 03/08/1915, posted to 1/LNL. He had some disciplinary action for misconduct.  Frank was hospitalised with gas poisoning  on 25/09/1915 and returned to 1/LNL on 03/10/1915. Frank gained a Lance Corporal stripe on 19/10/1915 and reverted to Private on 18/12/1915.  He received 56 days Field Punishment No 1 on 25/02/1916.  He was hospitalised with scabies on 20/04/1916 and returned to his unit on 27/04/1916.
Frank was killed in action in the Battle of the Somme on 15/07/1916, aged 20.  He was buried at Contalmaison Chateau, but his grave was not identified after hostilities.  He is therefore commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing.
Image (C) British Library Newspaper Archive
War Diary is free to download with excellent report of events https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14052708
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: BernardM on March 09, 2021, 12:24:00 PM
Thanks for the info on Frank Madden, Tim. I did know some of the detail but you have fleshed it out more. There is an entry in a diary of my father from the mid 30s were he states. "visited brother Franks grave". No venue given. I would suggest he may have been referring to place of burial. His offence for which he received the Field Punishment No.1 was for 'Disobeying a legitimate order'. (Restrained in leg irons whilst still carrying out his normal duties or secured to a post in full view of the enemy, I believe. Not sure which was carried out)
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: Tim Bell on March 09, 2021, 01:03:35 PM
Hi Bernard,
If I were visiting Frank's grave I would visit CWGC Contalmaison Chateau Cemetery.  The evidence from the service record indicates his grave is in this vicinity but we can't be sure he was specifically buried in this plot.  The cemetery had been used by the Germans and the British started burying men there on 14 July - although none are recorded on that date.  There are handful of unknowns British Soldiers who were not relocated from other plots but the date sequence of the plots doesn't fit with July 1916.
There is one Aus soldier who is belived to be buried in the cemetery.  I don't think the service record is enough to justify similar for Frank.
The Thiepval Memorial is a most fitting commemoration after all.
Tim
Title: Re: 47319 George Edward Madden. 11th Battalion
Post by: BernardM on March 09, 2021, 04:23:51 PM
Thanks for that, Tim. As I said it was the entry in my fathers diary that could have been misinterpreted. My mother always understood that Frank had no know grave. Tahaks.B.