The Manchester Regiment Forum

Welcome to the Manchester Regiment Group Forum => Hello => Topic started by: Nigel264 on January 06, 2021, 11:19:51 AM

Title: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: Nigel264 on January 06, 2021, 11:19:51 AM
Hello, my name is Nigel Dixon and thank you for allowing me to join your website.

I am looking for information on 16th Battalion the Manchester Regiment and 1/5 Battalion the Border Regiment as my grandfather was in both of them during the First World War.

77457 Pte R Dixon 16th Battalion the Manchester Regiment.
31575 Pte R Dixon 1/5 Battalion the Border Regiment.

I apologise if I have mixed up the Hello with my grandfathers information and what I am looking for.

Regards
Nigel
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: Tim Bell on January 06, 2021, 04:30:42 PM
Hi Nigel,
Roland Dixon’s service number, 77457, was issued relatively late in the Great War.  Similar numbers were issued to a conscript in 53rd Bttn in March 1918, a man transferred from S Wales Borders (Jan 1918) and a man who had enlisted in 1916.  Roland was born 10/12/1896, so he was liable for conscription in 1916, unless he had already volunteered.  I’d be guessing to suggest when he enlisted or arrived overseas. The only casualties in the Manchesters number sequence were May 1918 onwards.
A large draft was transferred from the Manchesters to 1/5th Bttn Borders. I’ve found 2 service records to suggest this was in March 1919.
Welcome to the forum.
Tim

Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: Nigel264 on January 06, 2021, 04:49:33 PM
Hi Tim,

Thank you so much for you feedback, I have been doing some research and finding it very difficult to determine when he joined because whilst I see on the medals record he has 2. I vaguely remember as a child that he had a star medal as well so he had 3 medals in my honest opinion and as his records got destroyed in the second world war I am using my judgment base on a number of facts.
I got this from another website:
Service Number Range 6200s-7800s was issued between August 1914 and June 1915 to men joining the 16th Manchester (1st City Battalion).

I also have his dairy which indicated that he was potentially accommodated in Walsingham June 1918 which is when 16 Battalion was sent back to the UK and absorbed 29 Battalion and went back to France July 1918

I have very confused but do appreciate any feedback as I don't know what company he was in but I do know he was a runner in the trenches. On one occasion he was taking and urn of tea through the trenches and when he arrived to dispense his cargo it was empty because he had be shot at but managed to survive. AMAZING REALLY
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: Nigel264 on January 06, 2021, 05:07:06 PM
Something else in his diary says:
03/04/1918 Inoculated
07/05/1918 Received into Quartermasters Store

What would you make of that, that he didn't join the war until circa 07/05/1918 and then why would I still be thinking he had 3 medals??

I don't know what to make of that .

He was and acrobat and part of Penders Troupe prior to the war as I note in his diary that he was in Germany (Hamburg) March 1914 some performances got cancelled owing to the outbreak of war July to December 1914. January to March 1915 show performances but after that there are no more entries.

He has one more entry but cant make out anything of it:
2 A M G
32 Squadron
A Flight
BFG
France

Nigel
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: Tim Bell on January 06, 2021, 05:19:38 PM
Hi Nigel,
The Medal Index Cards show that Roland received just to medals. The absence of the 1914-15 Star means he went overseas in1916 onwards.
The 6000-7000 numbers were the sequence for the original volunteers in 1st City /16th Bttn. He was much later than this 70000 sequence.
Walsingham is not far from Herringfleet where 51st & 52nd Bttns were based, although this may be a red herring.  :D
The April 1918 inoculation would fit with enlistment in that period, but it may not have been his first...
The other references in your post appear to relate the RAF.  I'll have another look for home service there.
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: charlie on January 07, 2021, 10:01:56 AM
Welcome to the forum Nigel.
First I suggest that the RAF address should read 2AM F (F short for Fitter) and BEF not BFG. Is it possible that it is a friends address?
There is a R Dixon recorded in the RAF Muster Roll and according to Ancestry he also has a service record.
His number was 21272, born about 1897, joined 18.02.1916 and his mother was Martha. Unfortunately I don‘t have access to his full record.

Charlie
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: rafboy on January 07, 2021, 10:28:59 AM
32 Squadron RAF is now the Royal Flight. Some information on the Squadron is here. As you will see they were in France:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._32_Squadron_RAF

https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisation/squadrons/32-squadron/

Cliff
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: Tim Bell on January 07, 2021, 10:49:57 AM
Welcome to the forum Nigel.
First I suggest that the RAF address should read 2AM F (F short for Fitter) and BEF not BFG. Is it possible that it is a friends address?
There is a R Dixon recorded in the RAF Muster Roll and according to Ancestry he also has a service record.
His number was 21272, born about 1897, joined 18.02.1916 and his mother was Martha. Unfortunately I don‘t have access to his full record.

Charlie
This chap is Roland Dickson. a shipwright from County Down.  I can't see Oldham's Roland Dixon in the RAF Airmen records.
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: rafboy on January 07, 2021, 11:18:27 AM
Welcome to the forum Nigel.
First I suggest that the RAF address should read 2AM F (F short for Fitter) and BEF not BFG. Is it possible that it is a friends address?
There is a R Dixon recorded in the RAF Muster Roll and according to Ancestry he also has a service record.
His number was 21272, born about 1897, joined 18.02.1916 and his mother was Martha. Unfortunately I don‘t have access to his full record.

Charlie

2 AM G = Air Mechanic 2nd Class transferred to Class G reserve:  https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/209649-rfc-air-mechanic-second-class/
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: charlie on January 07, 2021, 08:03:41 PM
Tim, thanks for clearing that up, I need to clean my glasses!

Cliff
Thanks for that but I doubt that G is relating to the Class G Reserve when it is in what appears to be a postal address. I am assuming Nigel has misread the letters E, F & G. As far as I am aware BFG is the abbreviation for British Forces Germany - a post ww2 abbreviation.

Charlie
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: rafboy on January 08, 2021, 10:03:19 AM
Tim, thanks for clearing that up, I need to clean my glasses!

Cliff
Thanks for that but I doubt that G is relating to the Class G Reserve when it is in what appears to be a postal address. I am assuming Nigel has misread the letters E, F & G. As far as I am aware BFG is the abbreviation for British Forces Germany - a post ww2 abbreviation.

Charlie

Charlie
Whilst I agree with you re BFG (I was in Germany with my parents 1948-1950) I don't agree with your view on the AM G being AM F, the RFC/RAF did not have "Fitters" then. He would not be an Air Mechanic and a Fitter at the same time. I started out as an Air Radar Mechanic and finished as a Ground Radar Fitter.
Cliff
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: charlie on January 08, 2021, 10:19:34 AM
Cliff
I have to disagree with you, the Muster Roll records Fitter as the persons trade and AM as the persons rank. My Grandfather was a 2AM Fitter AE in 1918.

Charlie

Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: mack on January 08, 2021, 11:22:12 AM
roland dixon was a motor driver in civvie street and one of his sons was a mechanic and another son was a machine operator,so there is a mechanical connection

mack
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: Tim Bell on January 08, 2021, 03:47:36 PM
The 1st April 1918 Muster Roll has 3 R Dixons. I don’t think any of these are Roland Dixon because he was probably transferred to the Army by then.  One enlisted in 1916 and was a Tinsmith AM1. 2nd was a Fitter Moulder AM3, joined 15/01/1918 and the 3rd was a Boy Mechanic, joined 24/01/1918.  The service records on Ancestry start in 1918. I’m not sure if FMP have earlier service records. 
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: Nigel264 on January 08, 2021, 07:12:30 PM
Hello everyone, thank you so much for all the feedback and help.
Apologies for being off air for a period of time but I have been struggling to post some pictures I took with my mobile and getting them down to the regulation size to be able to post up here.

I must also correct myself and when I looked at the diary it should have read BEF and BFG, it was a typo and again apologies.

I will give it another concerted effort tomorrow to add them so that you can all pick the bones from what you see and hope this helps?

Regards

Nigel
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: Nigel264 on January 08, 2021, 08:39:15 PM
I think I have managed to shrink the pictures down to size but the next challenge will be if you can make out the text!!!

I do hope you can as you can see he did travel before the war started so he must have known something wasn't right when he visited Germany

Regards

Nigel
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: rafboy on January 08, 2021, 09:43:57 PM
Something else in his diary says:
03/04/1918 Inoculated
07/05/1918 Received into Quartermasters Store

What would you make of that, that he didn't join the war until circa 07/05/1918 and then why would I still be thinking he had 3 medals??

I don't know what to make of that .

He was and acrobat and part of Penders Troupe prior to the war as I note in his diary that he was in Germany (Hamburg) March 1914 some performances got cancelled owing to the outbreak of war July to December 1914. January to March 1915 show performances but after that there are no more entries.

He has one more entry but cant make out anything of it:
2 A M G
32 Squadron
A Flight
BFG
France

Nigel

Having now seen the photo it does look like someone else's Address.
Regarding my earlier posts re 2 AM G it looks like the persons initial with his surname after it. When compared to the F of "Flight" and "France" it's not the same letter.

32 Squadron occupied the following bases, the date (Day/Month/Year) is the date of arrival at the base:

Britain RFC 32 Netheravon 12 1 1916
Britain RFC 32 St-Omer 28 5 1916
Britain RFC 32 Auchel 4 6 1916
Britain RFC 32 Treizennes 7 6 1916
Britain RFC 32 Vert Galand 21 7 1916
Britain RFC 32 Lealvillers 25 10 1916
Britain RFC 32 Abeele 3 7 1917
Britain RFC 32 Droglandt 8 7 1917
Britain RFC 32 Bailleul 5 3 1918
Britain RFC 32 Belleville Farm 27 3 1918
Britain RFC 32 Beauvois 29 3 1918
Britain RAF 32 Fouquerolles 3 6 1918
Britain RAF 32 Ruisseauville 21 6 1918
Britain RAF 32 Touquin 18 7 1918
Britain RAF 32 La Bellevue 3 8 1918
Britain RAF 32 Pronville 27 10 1918
Britain RAF 32 La Brayelle 1 11 1918

Cliff
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: Nigel264 on January 09, 2021, 12:39:07 PM
Thank you Cliff for the details, more research required by me.

Regards
Nigel
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: themonsstar on January 12, 2021, 10:40:33 AM
 Hi Nigel
Did you have any family who fought in World War II, the reason I asked this because when I was a very young child I can remember playing with my great uncle's War medals and also the medals from the Second World War, which some are also star medals and I'm just wondering if you may have been mixing them up.

Cheers Roy, all the best with your research.
Title: Re: HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO JOIN THIS SITE
Post by: Nigel264 on January 12, 2021, 11:04:47 AM
Hi Roy,

I don't think he did but will have a look but not hopeful as he only had the two numbers and not any others that I can see or establish!!

Regards
Nigel