The Manchester Regiment Forum

The Great War => 1914 - 1918 => Topic started by: chrissyH on June 28, 2020, 08:39:50 AM

Title: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 28, 2020, 08:39:50 AM
Hello all.  Thanks for the ad and hope all are fit and well.
I am researching my granddad CHARLES JOHN EVERITT.
I have just received a copy of the marriage certificate (married 1915) and it shows
3rd Batt. Manchester Reg.
I was hoping that someone could give me any information
Many thanks
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: Tim Bell on June 28, 2020, 12:59:17 PM
Hi Chrissy,
I've only identified one Charles Everitt who served overseas with the Regiment.  He had the number 1340 and went overseas after 1915, posted to 1st Bttn and later 1st Garrison Battalion in India.  3rd (Special Reserve) Bttn was at Cleethorpes in 1915, training men for service for 1st & 2nd (Regular) Bttns, so we could have the correct man.  Otherwise, its possible Charles John Everitt may have served exclusively at home (No medal entitlement), or possibly transferred to a different Regiment overseas - where medals wouldn't generally identify home service.  There are no medal rolls for the exact name.
In 1911 a Charles  Everitt was serving in 1st Bttn Manchester Regiment, aged 20, so born Stepney 1890/1891.  I'm not convinced this is the same man as 1340 Charles Everitt. 

I'm not expert on Insignia, but those stripes indicate Good Conduct / Long Service.  Hopefully other Forum members will explain more.

Welcome
Tim
ps I just spotted the images and your tree. Will look again.
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: mack on June 28, 2020, 01:14:38 PM
hiya chrissy
i dont know what you already have about your grandfather so i will post what i know

1340 charles,john everitt
1st manchesters serving in india 1911
born stepney 24th march 1890
educated portman place school,london
parents charles+ellen,father was a tram driver
wife gertrude[nee maslen]
had at least 3 children,george/annie/dorothy
during WW2 he lived at 11 amity rd,west ham
died 20-11-1961 cremated 27-11-1961 at southwark

in the photo,hes wearing two good conduct stripes on his left cuff,thats for six years good conduct
on his right arm,hes wearing 4 blue chevrons for 4yrs overseas service in the war,i cant find him in the 1914 or 1915 star rolls,which means he was only entitled to 3 of these chevrons

the eligibility for overseas chevrons was sometimes unfair,many soldiers believed they were entitled to them,but the army regulations said no,soldiers who died in the war were not entitled to them.

hes wearing a tropical uniform in the photo

what was the date of his marriage

mack
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 28, 2020, 01:29:17 PM
Hi Mack,
Thank you so much for the info.
I knew most of the personal stuff, including a 4th child born in 1934 but never registered (my mum).!.
They were married 24th April 1915.
 ChrissyH
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: charlie on June 28, 2020, 04:47:37 PM
He is actually wearing 5 overseas service chevrons, the red one for 1914 can just be made out. A trawl through the 1st Bn rolls might reveal more. As he is wearing the chevrons it dates the photo to post December 1917.
Charlie
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 28, 2020, 04:55:09 PM
Hello Charlie,
Many thanks for the info.
I will take a trawl through,
Sorry photos are not the right way up, not sure how that happened.!
ChrissyH
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 28, 2020, 05:01:51 PM
Hello Tim,
thanks for having a look, your post has only just come up, so sorry for not thanking you sooner
Chrissy
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 28, 2020, 05:17:46 PM
Well, I had a look on Ancestry war records and came across this.
Would it be right .
I'll say sorry now incase the photo is sideways again.
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 28, 2020, 05:45:10 PM
The print out
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: Tim Bell on June 28, 2020, 06:00:02 PM
Hi Chrissy,
I looked at the Medal Roll for the Victory & British War Medals (your image). It's this that shows service with 1st & 1st Garrsion Bttn (GB).  He also has a Medal Index Card, showing this Medal Award.  There's no evidence he received a 1914 or 1914/15 Star - I also checked these Medal Rolls.  This creates a mystery how he received the red overseas chevron.
It's frustrating that we can't find a Pension or Service Record.  A serving member of the Regulars or recent Reservist would be exepcted to have been seen overseas in 1914/15.  He wasn't too old, so the posting to 1st GB may have related to wounds or underlying health condition that kept Charles away from front line duty.  If this was the case, a posting to 3rd Bttn in April 1915 would make some sense, but the British War Medal was only provided to men who served at the front, suggesting Charles was posted to 1st Bttn in 1916. 1st GB went to India in early 1916 and reinforcements arrived thereafter.
Tim
ps My Grandfather's cousin 1095 Alf Ridge had served with Charles Everitt in India with 1st Bttn.
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 28, 2020, 06:21:29 PM
Hello Tim,
What a small world.!
It's a riddle wrapped up in an enigma.
I did find a 1911 census, but not sure if it's correct
Basic
military unit !st B MR
reg dist num 641
ed, institution, or vessel  India
piece  34980

theres about 100 people in "the household"
Being as there's no military number, not 100%
BUt I have only just found out his number so I've got more to look at now.
That is the only photo that I have of Charles
Chrissy
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: charlie on June 28, 2020, 09:40:29 PM
I‘ve also been through the 2nd Bn 1914 Star roll. His number indicates an enlistment date of late 1908 - early 1909.

I‘ve had a closer look at the photo and it has been retouched or fotoshopped in todays parlance :) It would not surprise me if it was a pre war photo taken in India and retouched at a later date, the dhobiwallah has done a good job with his tunic. Look carefully at his hair, it is quite easy to see how it has been altered. Also look again at his overseas chevrons, they look to be floating above the sleeve. Also if he had been awarded the 1914 Star I would expect to see the ribbon on his tunic. I agree with Mack, he has self awarded the overseas chevrons.

Just a correction on the medal side, the War Medal was awarded for mobilized service outside the soldiers country of residence, his service in India would have qualified him for the award. The Victory Medal was only awarded to those who had served in a theatre of war, which India was not. Therefore he must have seen active service in a theatre of war with the 1st Bn.

Charlie
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: mack on June 28, 2020, 11:10:16 PM
charlie
i didnt see the red chevron,i thought it was a shadow.

in places like india,they had clip-on stripes etc,due to the amount of times a man had to change his uniform,it easily unclipped from the dirty tunic and clipped on to the clean one,but i agree with charlie,hes self awarded himself the chevrons

chrissy,your grandfather was in the war from start to finish and he probably believed he was entitled to the chevrons just like many thousands of others

mack
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 29, 2020, 05:59:16 AM
Thank you both, Charlie and Mack.
So, if I've got this right. He did fight in the war to be awarded the medals, and he was in India in the early days.
Would the "retouches" been done when the photo was taken or at a later date.?
Its the only way that I've know this photo.
Could he have "borrowed" a tunic top.?
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: charlie on June 29, 2020, 08:44:12 AM
Hello Chrissy,
The retouching would probably have been done at the time the photo was taken or within the next few years. Photographers of the day employed skilled people, often the photographers wife, to retouch the photos. It was done for a number of reasons eg the photo had not been developed correctly or the subject had a specific request.

Is there anything on the reverse of the photo regarding where and who took the photo?

As he was a regular soldier is there anything to suggest that he continued to serve after the war? The records of soldiers who served after 1920 are still with the MoD.

Charlie


Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 29, 2020, 08:55:44 AM
This is all that's on the reverse
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: charlie on June 29, 2020, 09:09:17 AM
A pity there isn‘t anything else. Upside down makes a change from sideways though  ;D ;D
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 29, 2020, 09:13:29 AM
I'll get it right one day.!!!!!!
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: charlie on June 29, 2020, 09:17:29 AM
All the reverse tells us, is that it was printed on Kodak card, the K Ltd in the stamp box was in use from 1918 till the 30s.
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 29, 2020, 10:12:24 AM
is there any way I could get his service records.? And what about his medals.?  Did he receive them.? If not could I apply to get them.?
Sorry but more questions than answers at the moment.
Frustrating
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: charlie on June 29, 2020, 11:39:58 AM
Chrissy, his medals were issued and he received them, otherwise it would be recorded on his MiC (Medal index Card). You could try searching on EBay etc and sign up to the British Medals Forum
https://britishmedalforum.com/

In all probability his service record went up in smoke during the 1940 Blitz along with 60% of WW1 soldier‘s records. If he did continue to serve till after the end of 1920, the MoD still holds the records of soldiers who were born before 1901. There are 8 searchable spread sheets containing their names here (scroll down a bit)
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/foi-responses-released-by-mod-week-commencing-1-december-2014

Its a slim possibility and I have no evidence that he did continue to serve.

Charlie
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 29, 2020, 11:54:35 AM
Many thanks. I will have a look round
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 29, 2020, 12:13:05 PM
just had a look at the link, but it won't let me open any of the attachments
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: charlie on June 29, 2020, 08:40:13 PM
just had a look at the link, but it won't let me open any of the attachments

It must be your settings, they open up ok for me. I searched the spreadsheets and he is not listed.
Charlie
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 29, 2020, 09:05:51 PM
Think it must be me, technophobe.!!!! as you can tell by the photos.   :D
Thanks for doing that for me Charlie
I have managed to get his medal card from National archives (downloads are free whilst they are shut).  Will be contnuing the quest.
Title: Re: EVERITT
Post by: chrissyH on June 30, 2020, 08:39:30 AM
I have found something on Forces War Records but being as I haven't got a sub, do not know if it is just the medal thingy again or something else