The Manchester Regiment Forum

The Great War => 1914 - 1918 => Topic started by: PhilipG on November 10, 2019, 01:45:20 PM

Title: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: PhilipG on November 10, 2019, 01:45:20 PM
The Old Hulmeians War Memorial 1914-1919 web site records this officer as Oliver Jepson Sutton, mentioning that whilst serving in Gallipoli he was to be recommended for the Military Cross.    The CWGC however, name him as Oliver Joseph Sutton MC and advise that he was killed on the 23rd March 1918, has no known grave and his name is recorded on the Pozieres Memorial.    Do we have details of the award to him of the Military Cross, please?     PhilipG.
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: charlie on November 10, 2019, 04:22:31 PM
Philip,
His correct name appears to be Oliver Jepson Sutton. His MC was gazetted on 2nd Feb 1916, unfortunately without a citation. The best I can find is a short article on the Ashton Pals website (you will need to scroll down a bit) https://ashtonpals.webs.com/1916page2.htm

Charlie
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: PhilipG on November 10, 2019, 04:46:00 PM
Charlie,

Thank you once again for your kind help.    Trust you are enjoying your recent preferment!     PhilipG.
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: mack on November 10, 2019, 08:07:42 PM
your correct Philip,his middle name was Jepson and his MC was awarded for the Gallipoli campaigne[gaz 2-2-16]

resided 323 great clowes st,higher broughton
librarian at the john rylands library
born 29-7-82

mack
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: PhilipG on November 10, 2019, 09:13:51 PM
Mack,

Thank you.  PhilipG.
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: PJS on November 11, 2019, 07:15:07 PM
I believe his MC was awarded for the reconnaissance work noted by Charlie. It's also referenced here on the forum: https://themanchesters.org/forum/index.php?topic=3554.msg24186#msg24186

969 Sgt. Harry Grantham was awarded the DCM for his role.

Peter
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: charlie on November 11, 2019, 07:45:48 PM
Thank you Peter. Sgt Grantham‘s DCM was Gazetted (21st Sept 15) over four months before Capt. Sutton‘s MC, obviously for the same action. Strange that there doesn‘t appear to be a citation but one must assume it would have been worded very similar.

Charlie
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: mack on November 11, 2019, 08:49:18 PM
Thank you Peter. Sgt Grantham‘s DCM was Gazetted (21st Sept 15) over four months before Capt. Sutton‘s MC, obviously for the same action. Strange that there doesn‘t appear to be a citation but one must assume it would have been worded very similar.

Charlie
hiya Charlie
capt Sutton along with Lt c.e cooke were originally recommended for the DSO,its possible the powers that be didn't think he had earned a DSO and put his recommendation to one side and it resurfaced when the new MC+MMs were instituted,ive come across a few MC+MM awards for Gallipoli that appear to have been backdated,his award was for the recon with sgt grantham,this gallant NCO was also with Forshaw when he won his VC.

mack
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: mack on November 11, 2019, 09:37:45 PM
I believe his MC was awarded for the reconnaissance work noted by Charlie. It's also referenced here on the forum: https://themanchesters.org/forum/index.php?topic=3554.msg24186#msg24186

969 Sgt. Harry Grantham was awarded the DCM for his role.

Peter
hiya pete
well spotted mate,thats a great way to introduce yourself,welcome to the forum

mack
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: mack on November 11, 2019, 11:12:56 PM
Lt c.e cooke[act capt] was also awarded the MC,it was gazetted the same day as capt suttons,capt Charles,earsham cooke of monkhill house,pontefract didn't survive the war either,he died of wounds on 24-5-17
memorial.leeds corn exchange

mack
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: PhilipG on November 12, 2019, 10:18:29 AM
PJS, Charlie & Mack,

Thank you and to Peter a belated welcome to the forum.      PhilipG.
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: PhilipG on November 12, 2019, 11:49:57 AM
On the 21st March 1918, the 9th Manchesters were serving in the 66th (2nd/East Lancashire Division) in the 198th Brigade.   In that brigade also serving were the 4th East Lancs. together with the 2/5th battalion of that regiment.   As it appears there is no suitable regimental history either for the 9th Manchesters or the 66th Div., I have turned to the battalion history for the 4th E.Lan.R. etc. in order to try to ascertain where Captain Sutton was killed on the 23rd March 1918.

From that source, it seems that the 2/5th E. Lan. R. were in support at Hesbecourt (with 10th Manchesters in reserve at Hervilly) when the initial German attack commenced.   As far as I can tell, the 9th Manchesters on the 23rd March 1918 were in retreat and in action near Roisel when Captain Sutton was killed.     

Comment welcomed.   PhilipG.                                     
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: charlie on November 12, 2019, 01:00:19 PM
Philip,
According to the Official History 1918 Vol 1, map 6, the 9th Bn where in the support line south of Péronne between Ferme Lamire and Eterpigny on the morning of the 23rd.

Charlie
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: Timberman on November 12, 2019, 03:14:21 PM
RQMS Harry Grantham MBE DCM
(1889 - 1959)

The blue plaque located at the Territorial Army Centre on Old Street, Ashton-under-Lyne, previously the Drill Hall of the 9th Battalion Manchester Regiment, was unveiled on 30th October 2000 as a tribute to RQMS Harry Grantham, MBE DCM.

https://www.tameside.gov.uk/blueplaque/harrygrantham

Timberman
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: PhilipG on November 12, 2019, 05:19:09 PM
Charlie,
 Thank you. (In plotting the track I obviously did not allow for the wind drift, variation and deviation.   As they used to say : "You can't beat trained men."    Thanks again.  PhilipG.
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: charlie on November 13, 2019, 08:38:54 AM
Philip
Map 4 shows 2 Coys of the 9th Bn in front of Trinket redoubt on the morning of the 22nd. I believe the maps, as a rule, show the situation at 8am. It looks like the Bn retired through Roisel during the 22nd or the early hours of the 23rd. I suspect due to the prevailing circumstances at the time errors will have been made as to what happened where and when.
Charlie
Title: Re: Captain Oliver Joseph Sutton MC : 9th Manchesters
Post by: PhilipG on November 13, 2019, 11:33:05 AM
Charlie,

Thank you and I have noted your helpful remarks.   In the lamentable absence of a regimental history for a particular battalion of the Manchesters, I am the first to admit that an attempt to utilise the East Lancs. Regiment's excellent battalion history is tempting fate.   "But when in need....."    It did not help matters that the 9th Manchesters left the 42nd Div. on the 19th February 1918 to join 198 Brigade of the 66th Division.

However, favourable mention in respect of the withdrawal was made of Lt.Col. G.P.Norton DSO of the 2/10th Manchesters who was attached in command of one of the East Lancashire Regiment's battalions.    I know little of this officer, but a forum note records him leaving the Manchesters on the 15th February 1918, presumably for attachment to the East Lancs.      PhilipG.