The Manchester Regiment Forum

The Great War => 1914 - 1918 => Topic started by: PhilipG on November 02, 2019, 10:42:36 AM

Title: L/Cpl . F. Heardman : 2nd Manchester Pals
Post by: PhilipG on November 02, 2019, 10:42:36 AM
Reference is made to the 1st July 1916 experiences of this soldier in Martin Middlebrook's "The First Day on the Somme".    Turning to the CWGC records, I see that they list the following soldier as having died on the 30th July 1916 - his name being on the Thiepval Memorial: -        8172 Pte Francis Heardman 17th Bn. Manchester Regt. age 23.

A case could be made that L/Cpl Heardman and Pte Francis Heardman are one person.   Secondly, if that is the case, there was very little time for Heardman's July 1916 wartime experiences to be made public before he was, sadly, killed in action on the 30th July.   I wonder how his very interesting wartime comments reached the public.    Via the Manchester Evening News, perhaps?     

I continue. Thirdly, and confusingly, the "Book of Honour" lists a L/Cpl 8622 F. Heardman serving in the 17th battalion in Platoon Vl of "B" Coy.   In this connection I can only suggest that they were brothers whose forenames both began with the letter "F".

If that is the case the L/Cpl in Middlebrook's book could be Heardman No.8622?     Comments welcome.    PhilipG.

Title: Re: L/Cpl . F. Heardman : 2nd Manchester Pals
Post by: mack on November 02, 2019, 12:01:02 PM
L/Cpl 8622 Frederick heardman was francis younger brother,they were both 17th manchesters and went to france the same day[8-11-15]they lived at 34 perth st,cheetham

8622 Frederick heardman
classZ army reserve 30-1-19
died 3-5-1973
resided rose cottage,edale
retired hotel proprietor

Title: Re: L/Cpl . F. Heardman : 2nd Manchester Pals
Post by: Tim Bell on November 02, 2019, 01:10:23 PM
Francis worked for S Hinrichsen & Co. Fred was a clerk. Sons of Mr. and Mrs. Francis Heardman.
Fred was in VI Pln and Francis was absent for the Book of Honour. My notes say he also served in B Coy and was posted missing. later assumed dead.

Martin Middlebrook advertised for contributions to his research in the late 60's (I think).  He received notes from numerous men present on 1st July and then did follow up interviews with an assistant.  Frederick Heardman was obviously a good source and quoted amongst a number of other men from the City Battalions.  The Liddel Collection in Leeds has some of the reports & IWM has some of the recordings, although I think these were for the 60th Anniversary, rather than the book.

IWM recently received some record cards of the intitial responses and I was not able to arrange to see them when I tried.  I will try again soon.  They indicated they would be included on the Lives site, but they haven't done it.  They confirmed that my Grandad's notes are not included in the collection, but wouldn't give any index. 

I met Martin at an WFA event in 2014 and felt a little spellbound by the experience.  He signed a recent edition of the First Day for me and I carried some boxes for him.  The original signed copy he gave to Grandad is very well read. (
Title: Re: L/Cpl . F. Heardman : 2nd Manchester Pals
Post by: PhilipG on November 02, 2019, 05:20:33 PM
Mack & Tim,

Many thanks.    PhilipG.